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Author Topic: Festool owes me money  (Read 5082 times)

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Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Festool owes me money
« on: September 26, 2018, 08:21 PM »
Guys... I don't have the time to draft multiple versions of this post to properly capture the depths of my disappointment in Festool so we'll start here.

I received my $160 FSK 250 new from Amazon this evening, just in time to work on staging tomorrow BUT the splinter strip is falling off because FESTOOL HASN'T ADDRESSED A MAJOR PROBLEM............. STILL.....

What is the point of maintaining the FOG forum if we can't engage in a feedback LOOP? Need I create a paper trail of posts identifying the splinter strip issue dating back to... how long guys...? Years right?

The FSK 250 is worth about $80 but I went for it because I'm a really good sport when it comes to Festool junk.

Festool owes me the time it takes to replace the strip with Makita brand strip and also owes me for the rolls of Makita strip I use to fix my other 7 tracks.

I'm going to fix the strip on the job tomorrow so that the guy I'm working with knows I'm not kidding when I'm telling him to buy the Bosch track system.

Festool, PM me for my address so you can send me a reimbursement and maybe next price increase we can hire someone to figure out what glue Makita is using?

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 08:23 PM by duburban »
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

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Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2018, 09:33 PM »
It’s designed to be re usable. I mean unusable.  [scared]. I have had problems in the past but the last strip I put on has held up. The Makita does stick well the only down side is when it needs to be replaced the glue is a mess meter to remove.

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 09:36 PM »
It’s designed to be re usable. I mean unusable.  [scared]. I have had problems in the past but the last strip I put on has held up. The Makita does stick well the only down side is when it needs to be replaced the glue is a mess meter to remove.

I have other tracks that are not in use because I haven't taken time to replace the loose ends with Makita.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 617
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 10:43 PM »
One can't but ask why an established company like Festool would let such a small and easy-to-fix product deficiency irritate its customers.    [blink]

Offline TomGadwa1

  • Posts: 398
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 12:08 AM »
They need to have 3M design a quality adhesive and then have workers who CARE install the strips correctly!!! I have a couple of rails that have the splinter guard strips that are not aligned properly!! For the money I have spent on Festool products thousands and thousands the OP is correct!!!
TS55 EQ  OF1400 EQ  DFQ 500 Q  RO 125  LR32 SET  Guide Rail Acc Kit Parallel Guide Set MFK 700 EQ Set MFS700 ETS 150/3 EQ Domino Cutter Assortment T15-3 Drill Set RO 90 EQ Workshop Cleaning Set CT36 Kapex 120 MFT/3 LR32 1080 FS 1400 FS 1900 WCR1000 PSB300 Boom Arm Set Clamping Elements RS 2 E  Kapex UG Set Zobo Forstner Set Centrotech Installers Set OF1010 OF2200 ZS-OF 2200 SYS1000 Syslite CT MIDI FS 800

There Are Those That Can Do, There Are Those That Can Not Do, Those That Can Not Do Have Those That Can Do Do The Things That They Can Not Do So That They Feel That They Have Done Something.

There ain't no something for nothing machine.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4944
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 01:00 AM »
I was hoping that when I joined this forum 3 years ago, that because people were so outspoken about issues with their Festool tools that this forum, because it is owned by Festool, would become a conduit for Festool USA to fast track product issues or product enhancements to their product line.

I also held out hope for that same situation occurring when Festool recently announced the manufacturing of products in the USA.

Well optimism is fine, but pragmatism is more useful.

Not to be a Debbie Downer here, but look at the track record.
An official Festool impact wrench survey was initiated 3 years ago...where’s the wrench?

An official Festool Kapex fact finding commission was initiated 2 years ago...where’s the fix?

Then there’s the imperial tool vs metric tool issue.

Then there’s the old hose connection vs the new hose connection issue.

Then there’s the Festool related story that the 150mm pad won’t fit the ETS EC 125 because:
1. The ETS EC 125 needs to be modified...well that wasn’t right.
2. There’s an imbalance situation if you swap pads...well that wasn’t right.
3. The brake mechanism for the pad won’t work.. well that wasn’t right either.

With that track record, should we really be holding out hope that Festool will dedicate resources to reformulate an adhesive to secure splinter strips on a guide rail?     I’m not.   I’ll just pick out a VHB product from 3M, grab a new splinter strip and move forward.

In the marketing specter it’s called opportunity lost.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 08:26 AM by Cheese »

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 08:14 AM »
It’s probably just perception but I feel like this would have been addressed by festool in years past. Perhaps they were just better a pacifying folks like me on this forum.

I’m actively suggesting alternatives to these products because I expect Festool to be the best tool company, not just the most expensive and I feel they’re taking advantage of my loyalty.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 06:09 PM »
Still waiting to hear from Festool
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 06:58 PM »
Still waiting to hear from Festool

And you will probably be waiting for a long time based on your post. I might suggest that if you really want assistance versus venting that you actually call Festool and talk to them about your issue.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 10:09 PM »
So this forum is not a place where we can communicate with Festool?
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4944
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 11:39 PM »
So this forum is not a place where we can communicate with Festool?

Yea that’s my read.

The bottom line is, it’s just a forum for old woodworkers to talk to other old workers about Festool tools while the forum slowly dies and eventually becomes extinct. A dinosaur in it’s final throes of life.

The energy of this forum emanates from enthused members yet, it’s not recriprocated from Festool corporate.  They own this platform but there’s no infusion of corporate Festool enthusiasm at any level. They come along every 6 months, offer a new product and then skulk away only maybe to be heard from in another 6 months down the line with another product introduction

Information is power...just produce a road map of where you’re going...what you’re focusing on and the faithful will follow. We don’t need release dates...just a road map of your vision of the future. Tease us...titilate us...reward the faithful.

This platform could become so powerful...yet it’s left to languish and it will eventually die because of a lack of corporate Festool support.

Who wants to talk about things that could be...at 70 years of age I want to talk about things that can be done right now. And there are 3 generations behind me that are looking for answers for the future. .


Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 12:28 AM »
I've been pretty darn loyal to Festool, especially when considering my means. Its a big deal to own 2+ truck full of Festool in rural Vermont, there's not a lot of money to be made up here. I've helped spread the word to so many people, including a building of architects when I did 5 years of arch. school.

You'll have to excuse my tone but getting a new product with a disconnected strip is analog to Festool sending me a box with a middle finger in it.


 
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2018, 12:38 AM »
So this forum is not a place where we can communicate with Festool?

Yea that’s my read.

The bottom line is, it’s just a forum for old woodworkers to talk to other old workers about Festool tools while the forum slowly dies and eventually becomes extinct. A dinosaur in it’s final throes of life.


You're perhaps even more grim than I, you'll have to let me catch up. I would hope that this forum pays respect to the professional user that has less time to spend time working on the tools. An understandable by product of packing more performance into a tool is maintenance, setup, etc... but the issue I'm concerned with here is just sloppy.

If I follow Peter's advice and contact Festool I'll end up returning the track and get another one which may have the same issue and definitely will eventually thus magnifying my inconvenience.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline MGDS

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 12:43 AM »
Agree with all said, Festool is turning even more boutique from when they owned the market. Much like 10k mountain bikes reserved for dentists and racers, we can now buy comparable tools without spending 2x as much. I bought into the system 3+ years ago...ts75, hkc55, 4 tracks, ets125, rotex125, ct midi, mft/3, carvex420 w/ accessorie kit (I do not recommended this jigsaw, another topic)

I’m happy with all the Festool tool purchases (minus the carved), and there wasn’t many alternatives available at the time. Hindsight, with the new tool brands becoming available/comparable, there isn’t anything else Festool offers that I want other than a domino, and that patent won’t last forever.

The price increases aren’t going to help either, I hope TTS’s pockets are deep, I’ll only be purchasing new sandpaper, maybe...and my dust deputy is -300 cheaper than the new cyclone.

Festool allowed me to learn a new approach, and what real dust collection is, but the other manufacturers learned also.
End rant - millennial

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2018, 11:27 AM »


The price increases aren’t going to help either, I hope TTS’s pockets are deep, I’ll only be purchasing new sandpaper, maybe...and my dust deputy is -300 cheaper than the new cyclone.


Isn't it $75 cheaper?  DD for Festool $300 vs. Festool Cyclone $375.   Unless you don't count the catch bin , hoses, connecting stuff etc. And then build / assemble your own. Which is fine, and if you buy the basic DD and do the rest yourself to save $300 then yes. But need to compare apple to apples.

Seth

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1016
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2018, 12:27 PM »


The price increases aren’t going to help either, I hope TTS’s pockets are deep, I’ll only be purchasing new sandpaper, maybe...and my dust deputy is -300 cheaper than the new cyclone.


Isn't it $75 cheaper?  DD for Festool $300 vs. Festool Cyclone $375.   Unless you don't count the catch bin , hoses, connecting stuff etc. And then build / assemble your own. Which is fine, and if you buy the basic DD and do the rest yourself to save $300 then yes. But need to compare apple to apples.

Seth

It depends on the model you get.

This one is normally $99. I have seen it on sale for less than $80. It comes with the cyclone, 2 containers, lid, casters, hose, clamps & elbows.

Dust Deputy Deluxe
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 12:34 PM by JD2720 »

Offline MGDS

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2018, 04:35 PM »
DIY setups a bucket, same results...not that their new setup isn’t cool, but not immediately compatible with the Midi, and I’d buy the Oneida/Sys one instead. It’s that it is all they have to offer in the last 3 years, along with Bluetooth, a new hose that comes with an inferior connector, maybe a radio and some led lights? for 20% more..
I’ve never had to warranty a tool of theirs, and am not knocking their tools, but where does this end...a Domino in 2022 for 2k
I’m just bitter because I jumped all in, then eventually saw the light and won’t be going back, could have saved 2k, with the same results.
This is for the fellow lurkers as a word of caution, Kool-aids isn’t as green.
I still appreciate lurking in the forum and learning from fellow craftsman, but these are tools/consumables, not investments (watch AvE’s tear down of the ts55, not exactly confidence inspiring). TTS is for the share holders more than ever and not the consumer.

100 b.f. of solid milled hickory so you can see I’m serious...

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2018, 08:07 PM »
Is this a place to communicate with festool?  Not to be rude but thats pretty funny. This is a place to communicate with the festool secretly paid off apologists pretending to be moderators. This maybe harsh and may get me banned but if y'all are not paid off why blindly defend festool? If it quacks like a duck its a duck, and the kapex is crap, the track saws are under powered, and the jig saws are average. But, the vacuums are good, the routers are awesome and their are some other winners. I post in the hope that festool will see the light and make all their tools kick butt !

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1471
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2018, 08:25 PM »
but if y'all are not paid off why blindly defend festool?
Wait, we get paid off? How do I collect my share?
The title of the post is very appropriate I might add.

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2018, 08:49 PM »
While I agree that a savvy woodworker can do as much with less, my point is less about value and more about Festool living up to the name they are trying to create for themselves. They are getting lazy and sloppy. I knowingly pay more for a tool that does equal to competitors. I do not knowingly pay more for a tool that needs to be fixed upon receipt... and I do not accept that as a norm from this company.

I agree that there are folks on here that constantly stick up for them because they are dutifully loyal or have connections that gets them better service or whatever. Those that do this do not help the community or the brand.

Look... I can fix the splinter guard but thats not the point... I shouldn't have to.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3535
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2018, 09:05 PM »
@glass1 you’ve no cause to make such an accusation against the moderators. I challenge you to copy a single post that demonstrates what you say. Trying to maintain neutrality is not the same thing as “blindly” defending Festool. The mods (Peter for sure) have expressed concern that Festool hasn’t addressed our concerns about the Kapex. Other than weeding out content that violates the guidelines of the forum or espouses dangerous procedures they’re pretty hands off.

I appreciate your honest appraisals of tools but you’re way off base attacking the mods.

Offline Bob Marino

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    • bobmarinosbesttools.com
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2018, 09:23 PM »
@glass1 you’ve no cause to make such an accusation against the moderators. I challenge you to copy a single post that demonstrates what you say. Trying to maintain neutrality is not the same thing as “blindly” defending Festool. The mods (Peter for sure) have expressed concern that Festool hasn’t addressed our concerns about the Kapex. Other than weeding out content that violates the guidelines of the forum or espouses dangerous procedures they’re pretty hands off.

I appreciate your honest appraisals of tools but you’re way off base attacking the mods.

 Agree 100% Michael.

 I also wish Festool was a little more responsive here no doubt. And I agree that something as simple as using the correct adhesive for the splinter-guards this is a problem that should’ve been fixed long ago.

  But the moderators are extremely fair and honest and darn nice guys to boot.  They work  tirelessly to keep this forum friendly and open. I know both Peter and Seth for years and they’re a good people - good down to their bones.
 As imperfect as this forum may be its through their efforts this is still a viable place for Festool information and more.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 09:32 PM by Bob Marino »
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2018, 10:17 PM »
Is this a place to communicate with festool?  Not to be rude but thats pretty funny. This is a place to communicate with the festool secretly paid off apologists pretending to be moderators. This maybe harsh and may get me banned but if y'all are not paid off why blindly defend festool? If it quacks like a duck its a duck, and the kapex is crap, the track saws are under powered, and the jig saws are average. But, the vacuums are good, the routers are awesome and their are some other winners. I post in the hope that festool will see the light and make all their tools kick butt !

Well there are only two moderators so I guess you are talking about me and Peter. 

The amount of restraint I am exercising right now might give me an aneurysm. This isn't the first time you have attacked, baited, and trolled members of this forum. And the only reason you are still a member right now, at this moment is because you are attacking the moderators. Just wouldn't look good to ban you on this one. 

I am not blindly defending Festool. Pointing out the  possible   price difference comparison discrepancy in the post above is not defending Festool. It is attempting to gain some accuracy.  I have noticed though that many,  not all but many, times when someone holds a different opinion than yours , or has legitimately achieved different results with a Festool tool than what you have obtained, that leads you to label them an apologist. Just because their opinion and results don't match yours.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apologize to the rest of the forum members for this post. It is not very moderator like of me.  Every once in a while my typing takes over and I just can't get control of myself.  Please do not read this post of mine as being an acceptable way to post on the forum. I should tell myself to take it private. Peter, could you please come moderate me here?  I am not doing a very good job of it.  [tongue]

Seth

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2018, 10:20 PM »
duburban,

    Sorry your splinter strips are falling off. I too wish Festool would start using a better adhesive. Some of mine seem to stay on well and others not so well. It used to be that people complained that the strips were too hard to remove. Need a formulation in between the old and the current.

 

Seth
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 10:23 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2018, 10:20 PM »
Than be honest. The track saws are underpowered and the kapex has a host of issues and the jig saw is average. Put your mouth where the money is. Yes I agree everybody is a nice guy. Never said otherwise. Just stop the bs. Reminds me of an old fable “ The emperors new clothes”. It’s just about honesty and reality for me it’s not personal. I am sure most on this forum are nice folks. That has nothing to do with Festool charging a premium price and claiming to make the best tools. If you boast, no problem if you can back it up.

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2018, 10:23 PM »
Bob M.

   I agree. I wish Festool was a bit more involved with the forum.

   But times change. Regardless I still think that the forum has some advantages over other internet formats when it comes to the type of information  in play here. Other formats also have strengths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   @duburban,  sorry to take your topic off track.



Seth

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 953
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2018, 11:00 PM »
Bob M.

   I agree. I wish Festool was a bit more involved with the forum.

   But times change. Regardless I still think that the forum has some advantages over other internet formats when it comes to the type of information  in play here. Other formats also have strengths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   @duburban,  sorry to take your topic off track.



Seth

All relevant. Understanding the distance between this forum and Festool does help. I cannot recall how many years I've been here but things have changed.

helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2018, 11:12 PM »
Bob M.

   I agree. I wish Festool was a bit more involved with the forum.

   But times change. Regardless I still think that the forum has some advantages over other internet formats when it comes to the type of information  in play here. Other formats also have strengths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   @duburban,  sorry to take your topic off track.



Seth

All relevant. Understanding the distance between this forum and Festool does help. I cannot recall how many years I've been here but things have changed.


Looks like this is your seventh anniversary on FOG. Right there under your screen name.  [wink]

Seth

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2018, 11:36 PM »
Than be honest. The track saws are underpowered and the kapex has a host of issues and the jig saw is average. Put your mouth where the money is. Yes I agree everybody is a nice guy. Never said otherwise. Just stop the bs. Reminds me of an old fable “ The emperors new clothes”. It’s just about honesty and reality for me it’s not personal. I am sure most on this forum are nice folks. That has nothing to do with Festool charging a premium price and claiming to make the best tools. If you boast, no problem if you can back it up.

 If the "nice guy" comment was in reference to my post, I went further - knowing both moderators over many years - way before they were moderators here (actually were customers of mine) and said they were "good down to their bones." I'll stand by that. They are excellent and moderators. They help keep this place going and shill for no one. Critiques on the tools - understood, let's have that discussion, but your personal attacks on their integrity are both incorrect and unwarranted.
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 165
Re: Festool owes me money
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2018, 12:31 AM »
I would just comment that telling folks they should contact festool directly simply isn't helpful and it's anti to the reason people make a post.

People don't contact companies directly because it's talking to a wall. You get no response, or when you do, it's boilerplate and or completely dodges the question/suggestion/etc that was asked.  I've send messages to many companies over time, sometimes you get feedback and even occasionally something actually gets changed/fixed or comes out as a product a few years later.  But the later is very rare.  I've found myself testing products before and had my input/changes/suggestions put into products, one common thread is that this happens with small companies that aren't too big to listen to outside ideas.

Most folks know that a company won't just drop everything and respond or talk future products etc with random people. But they do like to know that it was at least acknowledged in some way or maybe was at least sent to the right people who then ignore it.  It's like going to a job fair, folks want people to at least take a copy of their resume even if the company will just throw it away soon as they leave. Don't shove it back at the person or refuse to take it.

That's what the internet got people years ago, they can post something and maybe find they aren't alone or so there is more than one voice with the issues/suggestion/etc.  It's like putting together a petition with many signers on it. It has a lot more weight than just one random person talking.

I know no one running a forum wants it to be a angry posting fest at the target company of a forum, but is in the end a fundamental part of how things will be.  Silence means everything is great.