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Chris Meggersee

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« on: May 25, 2010, 07:46 AM »

Well as you all know I love my Festools but with the addition of my most recent Festool, the RO 125, has come with some bad taste.

Here is what happened. I recently bought that RO 125 and found it great but as the kind members of this forum told me it was the old model. I didn't think much of this since all I was really missing was the Protector but after looking in the Festo Catalogue and seeing that it should be the new model with it and the members telling me how useful it is I sort of felt cheated. Having paid full price for an old machine without all it's pieces I went back to my dealer to have him tell me that there is new management up in Jo'burg which is the HQ of Festool here in SA and that they were shipping out their old models. My dealer was angry himself because he said this is the second time it happened to him that they gave him an old model. He told me that the HQ was not willing to take it back and that he was working on getting me a slight refund but it looks unlikely.

Now I'm not one to complain but this situation has annoyed me and as per the advice of another memeber of this forum I emailed the "service email address" on the German Festool website on Sunday and have got no reply. I did send it from my gmail accont because thats the only email I have and was wondering if maybe it got sent to their spam? I'm worried that my time for something to be done is running out. Should I just shut up and ignore this or send another email and did I send it to the right place?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Chris

P.S I'm unsure if I put this in the right section.
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Festoolfootstool

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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 09:16 AM »

Hi I saw your other thread about this,I'm sure Festool will do the right thing I would give them a week to get back to you as there are  bound to be some emails bouncing between the German and south African hq's and having spent some time in Africa I know things take time.
just keep at it.... and keep us posted. I think if it was Festool US it would have been sorted by now...............
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Chris Meggersee

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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 11:27 AM »

Hi I saw your other thread about this,I'm sure Festool will do the right thing I would give them a week to get back to you as there are  bound to be some emails bouncing between the German and south African hq's and having spent some time in Africa I know things take time.
just keep at it.... and keep us posted. I think if it was Festool US it would have been sorted by now...............

Yeah, service in this country sucks.
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 01:06 PM »

Hi just a thought do you have the thirty day return policy down there?Huh??
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joiner1970

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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 01:19 PM »

I did the same thing here in the Uk back in 2007 when I bought my first Festool the TS55 saw. They sold me the old model when it was just changing over, from reading stuff on this forum I spotted what had happened and called Festool, they said its upto the dealer and nothing to do with them so I returned to my dealer. They swapped it off their own back and probably sold my old one to someone less fussy than me.
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Chris Meggersee

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« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 02:32 PM »

I did the same thing here in the Uk back in 2007 when I bought my first Festool the TS55 saw. They sold me the old model when it was just changing over, from reading stuff on this forum I spotted what had happened and called Festool, they said its upto the dealer and nothing to do with them so I returned to my dealer. They swapped it off their own back and probably sold my old one to someone less fussy than me.

Sigh. So it looks like I shouldn't hold my breath.
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woodguy7

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« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 05:49 PM »

Keep at them, don't let it go.  I wouldn't   Eating Popcorn

Woodguy
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 03:29 AM »

You should  phone festool in Jo buburg ask for Craig Kallis he is the area sales for cape town 0027-11-390-70 00
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Chris Meggersee

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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 02:03 PM »

You should  phone festool in Jo buburg ask for Craig Kallis he is the area sales for cape town 0027-11-390-70 00


I won't ask how a guy from the UK knows that and I don't Wink

Well anyway I got a call from my dealer today saying a Systainer had arrived for me free of charge with some polishing pads my dad and I were enquiring about. He told me that he saw the invoice it was over a R1000 worth of stuff. I have never seen this before and my dealer said it was not in his catalogue so i don't know if they custom made it for me, which I doubt since it has a product number, or if it's just really old stock. The latter of which seems more likely.

When I got there to pick it up my dealer said "I guess this is to say sorry". It doesn't exactly solve the problem but it's nice to know they value their customers. I still haven't recieved a reply from Germany so I am going to assume this was from the exploits of my dealer.

Here are some pics:


Whats outside.


What's inside.


What's below.

The product number for the EU is: 493 511

Oh and if anyone wants a review of this just let me know.
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jonny round boy

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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 02:22 PM »

Chris,

That's a great freebie!

As you say, there's a lot of value in that. I'm not sure if they're exactly the same as yours, but I've seen similar sets before here in the UK, and they occasionally pop up on eBay UK. Your conclusion that it's probably discontinued stock is likely correct.

I'd say that settles the issue of you not being happy with the sander. You said initially that you weren't bothered about the edge protector, and in your last post you said you'd been asking about polishing pads so I guess for you it's very useful and you've come out of this well. I think after this gift it'd be pretty churlish to argue for the newer model...

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CharlesWilson

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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2010, 04:00 PM »

Now for the good news:

You can buy the housing for the new RO125, which comes with the protector.  Everything else, I believe, is the same as the old model. Here in the US, it only cost a little over $30. (I can't imagine what it will cost you in your country.)

I did the replacement myself. If you decide to do it, my recommendation is to do it in a nice clean area (there are some small parts inside including springs and such) so that you don't lose any parts. The green button thingy that locks the Rotex head for pad removal has a spring holding it back. Careful perusal of the disassembly, and the parts diagram will make your re-assembly relatively uneventful.

Good luck,

Charles
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Charles Wilson
woodguy7

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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2010, 04:50 PM »

Chris

That is a nice set.  I have some of the pads, lambswool bonnet & cutting compounds for my RO 150 & they work great.  The advise to me was not to use the lambswool bonnet on your car though, use the microfibre cloth to buff up.

Good luck with it, Woodguy.
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Chris Meggersee

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I'm addicted to Festools.


« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2010, 04:58 PM »

Chris,

That's a great freebie!

As you say, there's a lot of value in that. I'm not sure if they're exactly the same as yours, but I've seen similar sets before here in the UK, and they occasionally pop up on eBay UK. Your conclusion that it's probably discontinued stock is likely correct.

I'd say that settles the issue of you not being happy with the sander. You said initially that you weren't bothered about the edge protector, and in your last post you said you'd been asking about polishing pads so I guess for you it's very useful and you've come out of this well. I think after this gift it'd be pretty churlish to argue for the newer model...



Agreed. I am happy with the outcome. I don't plan on being selfish and asking for more. Even if Germany offered something in their response I'm more than happy with this.

Now for the good news:

You can buy the housing for the new RO125, which comes with the protector.  Everything else, I believe, is the same as the old model. Here in the US, it only cost a little over $30. (I can't imagine what it will cost you in your country.)

I did the replacement myself. If you decide to do it, my recommendation is to do it in a nice clean area (there are some small parts inside including springs and such) so that you don't lose any parts. The green button thingy that locks the Rotex head for pad removal has a spring holding it back. Careful perusal of the disassembly, and the parts diagram will make your re-assembly relatively uneventful.

Good luck,

Charles

Really? Awesome. Next time I go to my dealer I will ask about it although I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't done here since if it is one would think that when I asked my dealer to investigate this whole situation he would have offered it. That would be awesome though and a rough conversion in my head from $30 is about R210 at R7 = 1$ last time I checked anyway :/ Which is not bad at all. Thanks for all the help guys.

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Alex

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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2010, 06:52 PM »


Really? Awesome. Next time I go to my dealer I will ask about it although I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't done here since if it is one would think that when I asked my dealer to investigate this whole situation he would have offered it. That would be awesome though and a rough conversion in my head from $30 is about R210 at R7 = 1$ last time I checked anyway :/ Which is not bad at all. Thanks for all the help guys.


You should have read some posts with more care. I already suggested this as a solution in the thread of your review.

But that systainer is a great gift. You said it is over R1000. I think it is a LOT over R1000. R1000 is 105 euros. Only the systainer and the black pad together already cost 105 euro here, and then add all the foam pads and the polishing liquid.

After this gift I wouldn't push it, exactly like you also said, but would just shell out the 30-40 dollar for the parts and convert the sander myself.
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Chris Meggersee

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I'm addicted to Festools.


« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2010, 07:10 PM »


Really? Awesome. Next time I go to my dealer I will ask about it although I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't done here since if it is one would think that when I asked my dealer to investigate this whole situation he would have offered it. That would be awesome though and a rough conversion in my head from $30 is about R210 at R7 = 1$ last time I checked anyway :/ Which is not bad at all. Thanks for all the help guys.


You should have read some posts with more care. I already suggested this as a solution in the thread of your review.

But that systainer is a great gift. You said it is over R1000. I think it is a LOT over R1000. R1000 is 105 euros. Only the systainer and the black pad together already cost 105 euro here, and then add all the foam pads and the polishing liquid.

After this gift I wouldn't push it, exactly like you also said, but would just shell out the 30-40 dollar for the parts and convert the sander myself.


Now that you mention it I do remeber you telling me that. Sorry.
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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2010, 07:49 PM »

I think you'll need to be careful about replacing the housing on the sander yourself. You have to open up the sander and that in theory, will void your warranty. Well, that is the case here in the States.
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« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2010, 02:48 AM »

In my opinion this is not a good outcome at all,

Chris thumbed the brochure decided on a purchase and went to the dealer and was sold a discontinued product and not the one he was expecting, or paid for.

when he returned to the dealer, the dealer blames the SA HQ. Why?...... Why does the dealer not accept responsibility and replase the sander for the correct model
and does he not know what he is selling........I find that imposable to believe. OH THEY SENT ME THE WRONG MODEL DOES NOT WASH WITH ME.



 Chris is 19 years old and has never had to complain to a manufacturer before. and it it a credit to him that he is buying tools of this quality and cost at his age.
He has may many years of tool purchases in front of him.BRAND LOYALTY?Huh?






he has not received a direct response from festool regarding  the issues with his purchase. Why is that ? did someone at the festool HQ say oh we will not address his concerns/complaint or ask what he wants we will just send him some accessory's. that will do, we will not even bother putting in a comp slip with any sort of explanation


SO TO SUM UP
No communication from festool at all

still has the model without the protector

has a box of items that would be usefull to someone in the motor trade.













« Last Edit: May 27, 2010, 02:49 AM by Festoolfootstool » Logged

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Deansocial

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« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2010, 04:21 AM »

i have also emailed them about a problem i had and they never got back to me. Pretty pathetic service really if you ask me. I also had a repair to a tool and it took a few weeks to get back, also unacceptable!
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Chris Meggersee

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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2010, 04:28 AM »

In my opinion this is not a good outcome at all,

Chris thumbed the brochure decided on a purchase and went to the dealer and was sold a discontinued product and not the one he was expecting, or paid for.

when he returned to the dealer, the dealer blames the SA HQ. Why?...... Why does the dealer not accept responsibility and replase the sander for the correct model
and does he not know what he is selling........I find that imposable to believe. OH THEY SENT ME THE WRONG MODEL DOES NOT WASH WITH ME.



 Chris is 19 years old and has never had to complain to a manufacturer before. and it it a credit to him that he is buying tools of this quality and cost at his age.
He has may many years of tool purchases in front of him.BRAND LOYALTY?Huh?






he has not received a direct response from festool regarding  the issues with his purchase. Why is that ? did someone at the festool HQ say oh we will not address his concerns/complaint or ask what he wants we will just send him some accessory's. that will do, we will not even bother putting in a comp slip with any sort of explanation


SO TO SUM UP
No communication from festool at all

still has the model without the protector

has a box of items that would be usefull to someone in the motor trade.


Yeah you are right. It's like they sold me an old model car without aircon that they said had air con and was new. However in terms of service you are comparing it to a first world country, the UK, over here the fact that I actually got something even though it was old shows they care. Compared the usual service of SA this is amazing, most of the time they would have said "Does it work? Then it's your problem" and that would be the end of it. Ya it might be a bit of a cop out since they didn't solve anything but at least they cared enough to send something....

It just means I've learnt the hard way to check what I buy with the catalogue.
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2010, 04:49 AM »

It does not matter what business you are in communication is crucial no, or poor comms is totaly unaccepable.
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2010, 05:15 AM »

It does not matter what business you are in communication is crucial no, or poor comms is totally unacceptable.


sorry its a bit shouty but its annoying
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« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2010, 02:52 AM »

With the exeption of brice there have been no comments on this thread by our American cousins bit odd isnt it???
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Chris Meggersee

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« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2010, 06:07 AM »

It's because they can't really say much without making me depressed. See if this did happen in America I'm pretty sure it would get sorted out within 2 days and I would have a new model Rotex. Sadly though I do not live in America or even a first world country. Sigh the service here is shocking but thats what makes us South Africans such hard workers. See if we go anywhere else it's a huge improvement even if it is bad the locals.

Any guys in the US want to comment on how they feel about what happened to my and this situation?
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« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2010, 07:26 AM »

Chris,

You are correct in your statements that a situation like yours would probably have been resolved differently here.  Here we have the 30 day return period.  We also have a network of dealers who compete based on service not on price.  We are also lucky that the Festool operation here is larger than in many countries and the customer service has proven itself to be top notch.

About two months ago I ordered an ETS150/3 from one of the dealers mentioned here consistently because of his customer service.  I spoke to him on the phone and in conversation mentioned that I wanted the new model, not the old, and that I would need the new style paper for it.

He told me that when a new model comes out, he automatically switches to shipping the new model and will not sell the older model unless requested by the purchaser.

If I were in your situation, in your country, I would do some research and find out who is in charge of customer service for Festool in South Africa.  I would then compose a polite, non emotional letter  - not email - describing your situation, your previous efforts to get it rectified to your satisfaction, how others have attempted or have not attempted to assist you...  Then I would request their assistance in getting this rectified to your satisfaction by replacing the product you purchased with the model that you thought you were getting.  Make a copy of it and mail two.  Mail one in the normal method.  Mail the second in a manner that will provide you proof of receipt.  Then wait a couple of weeks for a response.  If you don't get a response, do a second letter and enclose a copy of the first letter along with a copy of the proof of delivery.  Again mail it as above.

I honestly doubt that you will be unhappy with the outcome.

Best of Luck,

Peter
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« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2010, 07:36 AM »

I'm sorry but our postal service is just too unreliable to trust. Sending mail only about 70% of the letters get through, it's just not worth it. I would have loved to have the new model but I guess we can't all win all the time.
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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2010, 07:44 AM »

Excellent advice Peter, I agree that Chris does need to be more proactive in his approach.reading his earlier posts he is not used to dealing with such problems.

and while I have had no problems with my festool's I have spoken to festool UK on the phone, on several occasions and have found then to be very helpfull.


Chris why not phone or if you are not comfortable with that ask your father.

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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2010, 08:39 AM »

I'm sorry but our postal service is just too unreliable to trust. Sending mail only about 70% of the letters get through, it's just not worth it. I would have loved to have the new model but I guess we can't all win all the time.

Chris,

Don't give up.  We have a saying here:  Nothing ventured.  Nothing gained.  The effort to write a letter, copy it and mail it twice is going to be far less than then the amount of work that you had to do to earn the money you used to buy that sander.  You say that only 70 percent of the mail goes thru.  I bet that a letter sent in a manner that will require a signature for delivery will get thru.

You have nothing to lose.

Hang in there!

Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2010, 08:49 AM »

Chris,

I'm not from the USA, but I'd still like to react - and hope it won't get you depressed.
I'm aware of the fact that I'm somehow going against the grain here - be advised however, that it's well meant.

Regardless of the suspected level of service, you've been well compensated. The real world value of your "gift" is way higher than the cost of a new housing + sideguard.
Besides, it WAS something you were interested in, as you and/or your father inquired about this exact set.
You may be unhappy with the outcome, but I think your dealer did you a favour.
I hear the service in SA is somewhat below average. That probably also applies to the service your dealer has to put up with from the SA importer.
Tough luck. We can't change that, so you'll either have to live with it or start a crusade.

Meanwhile, your dealer has expressed his annoyance with SA Festool HQ to you ( not very professional, but it's always nice to feel you have an ally ) and has offered you something to compensate for your "loss".
While this may not be exactly how it should be, can you imagine how the outcome could be better still?

Let me exxagerate this a bit, to get my point across. Say you bought a case of oranges but the fruit proved to be a bit bland once you peeled it. You confront the seller with the blandness, and with the fact he advertises with "fresh taste - the best  oranges around".  He acknowledges the fact, and states that his supplier has scr*wed him - as has happened before. Knowing it's his responsibility not to getr scr*wed, he apologises to you, and offers you the keys to his Mercedes - he has seen you eying it before you bought the oranges.

Unless you happen to passionately hate Mercedes automobiles, or dislike cars and/or driving in general, you'd probably be very happy with the outcome.

Was the problem solved? No, the oranges are still bland.
Were you compensated ? Yes, very much so.
Every driveable Mercedes would be worth much more than any case of oranges - however tasty. Besides: the oranges weren't fake fruits or poisonous - they were just a bit bland.
Should you desire so, you could sell the Mercedes and buy a couple of  crates of the best oranges money could buy.

In my book you're lucky, the dealer has gone to great length to compensate you for the fact that your Rotex wasn't the newest model.
Had you been given the opportunity to buy the "old" model unused and fresh in it's Systainer for say Rd. 750 less, You'd probably have taken it.
You've been compensated with a polishing systainer that you were clearly interested in, and it's real world value is probably way more than double that amount.

Hug your dealer, and offer to mow his lawn as a return favor.....

Just my Euro 0,02


Regards,

Job
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TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories Smiley
Festoolfootstool

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Location: uk
Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1557


The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob


« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2010, 09:44 AM »

the facts

went to buy the new machine and was sold the old version
compained to his dealer and was fobbed off
emailed SA HQ and had no reply

someone (either the dealer or the SA HQ) has given him something else to fob him off, the one thing to make this right has not been done.
that would have been... sorry here is a new machine and have this polishing kit with our compliments.

no amount of stupid analogies regarding Mercedes, oranges,men on the moon,  or mowing peoples lawns will change that.
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If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?
Chris Meggersee

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Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Member Since: May 2010
Posts: 387


I'm addicted to Festools.


« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2010, 10:42 AM »

no amount of stupid analogies regarding Mercedes, oranges,men on the moon,  or mowing peoples lawns will change that.

And almost no amount of complaining. Look I've said this before, I do consider this as a cop out/weak buy off but the machine does work. I don't want to become an annoying customer and thats what is going to be needed if this is to be sorted out.

Oh and just so we are clear my dad and I were looking at a polishing kit to polish varnish, not cars.
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PS300EQ Jigsaw - OF1010EBQ Router - DF500 Domino - RO125FEQ Sander - C12CE Drill - TS55EBQ Saw - CT22E Dust extractor - DTS400 Sander

Wish List: Anything not listed above in the catalogue.
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