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Author Topic: Festool will not cover repair of jigsaw at 1year into a 3 year warrenty  (Read 35837 times)

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Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
You need a weak link somewhere to avoid catastrophic failure. 

Like I said earlier, hitting a screw is a lot tougher then hitting a nail.

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5702
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Who here would expect their vehicle to be repaired under warranty if you hit something, be it an hour or year old?  Neither the jigsaw or vehicles are designed to hit things.

I've had one tool repaired under warranty. All the rest I knew (as most who read my posts know) I damaged out side the bounds of" recommended" use. Looked in the e-Cat order the parts I needed, fixed it myself.

What baffles me most about the original post is how did you jamb the blade into the screw?  I choose a blade where the length fully retracted is greater and than the material thickness. Worst that could of happened set up like this is lost a few teeth on the blade.

Tom

I think the OP's predicament is more like running over a pot-hole in the road and rather than just getting a chunk taken out of your tyre (sorry "tire" if you will insist on cannibalising our language [wink] [big grin]) your entire suspension and drive shafts snapping.

Again, not the manufactures problem. They did not create, nor hit the pot hole.

Avoid the pot hole, avoid the damage.

Tom

Offline thedude306

  • Posts: 192


I find this to be the reason for price increases.  Eventually all the freebie's will have to get paid for somehow and that somehow is the rest of the people buying the tools.

I think a line should have been drawn years ago.

This.

although I do think that tools should take some sort of abuse without failure and I don't think hitting a screw is abuse.  It's not that hard.  I would actually argue that a nail is a tougher thing to hit but that's just my experience.  I don't think screws have much shear strength.

But back to GREAT warranties come with a HUGE cost.  You pay for it with every tool.  Same goes for the "free" swag.  It's not free.  I paid for it in the cost of all my equipment.  You want a three year warranty, sure, price increase april...

Brad T.

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
Who here would expect their vehicle to be repaired under warranty if you hit something, be it an hour or year old?  Neither the jigsaw or vehicles are designed to hit things.

I've had one tool repaired under warranty. All the rest I knew (as most who read my posts know) I damaged out side the bounds of" recommended" use. Looked in the e-Cat order the parts I needed, fixed it myself.

What baffles me most about the original post is how did you jamb the blade into the screw?  I choose a blade where the length fully retracted is greater and than the material thickness. Worst that could of happened set up like this is lost a few teeth on the blade.

Tom

I think the OP's predicament is more like running over a pot-hole in the road and rather than just getting a chunk taken out of your tyre (sorry "tire" if you will insist on cannibalising our language [wink] [big grin]) your entire suspension and drive shafts snapping.

Again, not the manufactures problem. They did not create, nor hit the pot hole.

Avoid the pot hole, avoid the damage.

Tom

Actually it is the manufacturer's problem.

Any product must be fit for purpose by law, and in the case of cars this includes specific tolerances for impact from pot holes, speed bumps, expansion gaps, etc. Car manufacturers build these requirements into their basic design as to avoid future problems that would actually be more costly under warranty.

For Festool to a) not design for this and b) not warranty it is pathetic considering the prices they charge.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2664

How can this issue illicit 65 replies?  [eek]



I am sympathetic by the way to the claim, but let Festool handle it, there is nothing we can directly impact upon here.

If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1920
What baffles me most about the original post is how did you jamb the blade into the screw?  I choose a blade where the length fully retracted is greater and than the material thickness. Worst that could of happened set up like this is lost a few teeth on the blade.

Tom

I'm assuming the OP was using an appropriately sized blade. If so the worst that should happen is like you said, screwing up the blade. But if that actually caused a tool break then I'd be pretty disappointed with the tool.
+1

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109

How can this issue illicit 65 replies?  [eek]

(Attachment Link)

I am sympathetic by the way to the claim, but let Festool handle it, there is nothing we can directly impact upon here.

I think it's great.

Festool have a more loyal following and advocacy base than any other tool brand I've seen. They also charge a big premium for their tools.

So let's make sure they are kept on their toes and don't become complacent.  Simple fact is hitting a screw shouldn't trash a supposedly premium/ top of the range tool.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works


I find this to be the reason for price increases.  Eventually all the freebie's will have to get paid for somehow and that somehow is the rest of the people buying the tools.

I think a line should have been drawn years ago.

This.

although I do think that tools should take some sort of abuse without failure and I don't think hitting a screw is abuse.  It's not that hard.  I would actually argue that a nail is a tougher thing to hit but that's just my experience.  I don't think screws have much shear strength.

But back to GREAT warranties come with a HUGE cost.  You pay for it with every tool.  Same goes for the "free" swag.  It's not free.  I paid for it in the cost of all my equipment.  You want a three year warranty, sure, price increase april...

Screws are significantly harder to cut through then a nail.  Yes they can be broken off when a nail just bends, but they are way harder to cut through.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2664

How can this issue illicit 65 replies?  [eek]

(Attachment Link)

I am sympathetic by the way to the claim, but let Festool handle it, there is nothing we can directly impact upon here.

I think it's great.

Festool have a more loyal following and advocacy base than any other tool brand I've seen. They also charge a big premium for their tools.

So let's make sure they are kept on their toes and don't become complacent.  Simple fact is hitting a screw shouldn't trash a supposedly premium/ top of the range tool.

Agreed, but your point that Festool should be kept on their toes was reached when Brent replied.  [smile]

This would by now be reaching a 'non Kapex' related record of replies for a tool warranty/design/manufacturing fault thread. [eek]

And yes, I know, why am I further adding to it?   [embarassed]

And 18 members, including the mysterious 'Hidden', are waiting with baited breath for the next reply!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 08:18 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5702
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Who here would expect their vehicle to be repaired under warranty if you hit something, be it an hour or year old?  Neither the jigsaw or vehicles are designed to hit things.

I've had one tool repaired under warranty. All the rest I knew (as most who read my posts know) I damaged out side the bounds of" recommended" use. Looked in the e-Cat order the parts I needed, fixed it myself.

What baffles me most about the original post is how did you jamb the blade into the screw?  I choose a blade where the length fully retracted is greater and than the material thickness. Worst that could of happened set up like this is lost a few teeth on the blade.

Tom

I think the OP's predicament is more like running over a pot-hole in the road and rather than just getting a chunk taken out of your tyre (sorry "tire" if you will insist on cannibalising our language [wink] [big grin]) your entire suspension and drive shafts snapping.

Again, not the manufactures problem. They did not create, nor hit the pot hole.

Avoid the pot hole, avoid the damage.

Tom

Actually it is the manufacturer's problem.

Any product must be fit for purpose by law, and in the case of cars this includes specific tolerances for impact from pot holes, speed bumps, expansion gaps, etc. Car manufacturers build these requirements into their basic design as to avoid future problems that would actually be more costly under warranty.

For Festool to a) not design for this and b) not warranty it is pathetic considering the prices they charge.

I see you've never seen a Chicago pot hole. They remove undercarriages and drivetrains all the time. The manufacture has no responsibility in fixing the car. You have to submit a claim with the city to try and recover your money.

Just because it happens to your car does not make a defective product. Could be a defective driver.

Tom

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1314
I see you've never seen a Chicago pot hole. They remove undercarriages and drivetrains all the time. The manufacture has no responsibility in fixing the car. You have to submit a claim with the city to try and recover your money.

Just because it happens to your car does not make a defective product. Could be a defective driver.

Tom
Would you agree the car was defective or had a design flaw if it cost more than a brand new car to fix it after hitting a pot hole?  Festool quoted more than the cost of a new saw to fix his jig saw after hitting a screw.  Get it?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 08:34 PM by RLJ-Atl »

Offline Scott Burt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 1985
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish

Offline Brent Shively

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 156
    • Festool USA
I spoke with the OP this afternoon to confirm with him all of the information. He was using a non Festool wood blade to cut through the wood top and cut into a screw that was attaching the cabinets together.
Our warranty states "This warranty is void if the tool is not used, operated, repaired and maintained in accordance with the tool's instruction manual." In the manual it states " Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products.
 We discussed his options for repair of the tool which he declined.




Brent

 




Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
I see you've never seen a Chicago pot hole. They remove undercarriages and drivetrains all the time. The manufacture has no responsibility in fixing the car. You have to submit a claim with the city to try and recover your money.

Just because it happens to your car does not make a defective product. Could be a defective driver.

Tom
But it does not cost more than the cost of the car when it was brand new to fix it!

Exactly! But the fanboy's don't like to concede that such things are unreasonable...

Hit a pothole that's damaged the suspension on your $65,000 BMW, Sir? That'll be $70,000 to repair, naturally!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5702
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
I see you've never seen a Chicago pot hole. They remove undercarriages and drivetrains all the time. The manufacture has no responsibility in fixing the car. You have to submit a claim with the city to try and recover your money.

Just because it happens to your car does not make a defective product. Could be a defective driver.

Tom
But it does not cost more than the cost of the car when it was brand new to fix it!

Sometimes.

Tom

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
I spoke with the OP this afternoon to confirm with him all of the information. He was using a non Festool wood blade to cut through the wood top and cut into a screw that was attaching the cabinets together.
Our warranty states "This warranty is void if the tool is not used, operated, repaired and maintained in accordance with the tool's instruction manual." In the manual it states " Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products.
 We discussed his options for repair of the tool which he declined.


Brent



Mental note, should have said it was a festool blade...  always say it was a festool blade..... [cool]


Offline Scott Burt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 1985
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish
Sometimes the sum of parts does exceed the cost of the whole, often actually.

Sounds like this mystery is history.

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
I spoke with the OP this afternoon to confirm with him all of the information. He was using a non Festool wood blade to cut through the wood top and cut into a screw that was attaching the cabinets together.
Our warranty states "This warranty is void if the tool is not used, operated, repaired and maintained in accordance with the tool's instruction manual." In the manual it states " Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products.
 We discussed his options for repair of the tool which he declined.




Brent

Serious copout! A blade is a blade, regardless if Dewalt, Makita, Bosch, etc., etc.  The key issue here is a tool with such a premium price tag shouldn't be trashed by hitting a screw, regardless of what brand is stamped on the blade!

I am in the process of dropping a £6,000 order with a prominent UK supplier of which £4,000 is Festool. I am now seriously considering substituting everything except a Domino XL 700 (as there's unfortunately no comparable tool) for non-festool tools.

Seriously disheartened with Festool's lack of ownership on this matter and as such has forced me to reconsider justifying the premium for their tools!

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1314
So, does this mean that Festool blades break easier than other blades, but cost more? 

So, Festool designed their blades to break when hitting a screw, instead of designing a simple pin or some other fail safe to break in order to save the expensive drive train of the jig saw?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 08:43 PM by RLJ-Atl »

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
So buy something else.  You really think all this complaining will get you anywhere?

They drew the line and now no one likes the line, typical.

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
So buy something else.  You really think all this complaining will get you anywhere?

They drew the line and now no one likes the line, typical.

They drew the line in the wrong place.

Sounds like Festool want their cake and to eat it. They get a huge benefit from the advocacy/promotion from loyal customers, but in this case seem to be devaluing it and cutting their nose off to spite their face.

The ironic thing is I absolutely guarantee (just from me reevaluating my purchases) Festool has lost more in profit over this incident than if they shouldered the cost of this repair in the first place. Hopefully they will learn a lesson here.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2015, 08:57 PM by orm8426 »

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11525
Yesterday I tried to make a point.  Apparently it wasn't clear based on re-reading what I wrote.  The FACT is that this issue of the tool and its warranty status or repair is an issue between the owner of the tool and Festool.  Not us.

Sure, everyone here can defend on on side or the other, but we are all distant cousins with no bearing just opinions.  Much like in-laws if you are married.

Peter

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
So buy something else.  You really think all this complaining will get you anywhere?

They drew the line and now no one likes the line, typical.

They drew the line in the wrong place.

Sounds like Festool want their cake and to eat it. They get a huge benefit from the advocacy/promotion from loyal customers, but in this case seem to be devaluing it and cutting their to spite their face.

The ironic thing is I absolutely guarantee (just from me reevaluating my purchases) Festool has lost more in profit than if they shouldered the cost of this repair.

They bend for everyone, then someone has to pay for that in the long run.  You can not make everyone happy, it is impossible and you will go broke doing so.  Sorry, you not buying something now, has little effect on them. 


Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
I spoke with the OP this afternoon to confirm with him all of the information. He was using a non Festool wood blade to cut through the wood top and cut into a screw that was attaching the cabinets together.
Our warranty states "This warranty is void if the tool is not used, operated, repaired and maintained in accordance with the tool's instruction manual." In the manual it states " Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products.
 We discussed his options for repair of the tool which he declined.


Brent



Mental note, should have said it was a festool blade...  always say it was a festool blade..... [cool]
Or just act stupid and don't say you hit a screw!
"I was cutting this piece of wood and....!" [wink]
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Brent Shively

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 156
    • Festool USA
As I stated earlier the customer was made an offer on the repair of his Carvex but declined it.
I will keep this thread open so that he has an opportunity to reply if he chooses.
Please keep this tread civil until then.

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
I spoke with the OP this afternoon to confirm with him all of the information. He was using a non Festool wood blade to cut through the wood top and cut into a screw that was attaching the cabinets together.
Our warranty states "This warranty is void if the tool is not used, operated, repaired and maintained in accordance with the tool's instruction manual." In the manual it states " Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products.
 We discussed his options for repair of the tool which he declined.


Brent



Mental note, should have said it was a festool blade...  always say it was a festool blade..... [cool]
Or just act stupid and don't say you hit a screw!
"I was cutting this piece of wood and....!" [wink]

Sad state of affairs though, that we can't be honest with Festool and they be reasonable as to what is "abuse" and what is actually just par for the course when using expensive professional quality tools.

Offline thedude306

  • Posts: 192
I thought that Magnuson–Moss act was to prevent a manufacture from using the "it wasn't our blade on the saw" as a way out of warranty.  It was my understanding that they would have to prove the aftermarket blade was the cause for the fault.

I think that would be very hard to do??

" Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products."

But it doesn't void warranty if you do does it??  I would bet that 75% of the festools in use would have a void warranty if it did...
Brad T.

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
As I stated earlier the customer was made an offer on the repair of his Carvex but declined it.
I will keep this thread open so that he has an opportunity to reply if he chooses.
Please keep this tread civil until then.

But in these circumstances anything less than a completely free warranty claim is not really an "offer", but an insult.

Offline orm8426

  • Posts: 109
I thought that Magnuson–Moss act was to prevent a manufacture from using the "it wasn't our blade on the saw" as a way out of warranty.  It was my understanding that they would have to prove the aftermarket blade was the cause for the fault.

I think that would be very hard to do??

" Festool does not condone nor support the use of any non-Festool engineered, designed, and manufactured accessories or consumables with Festool products."

But it doesn't void warranty if you do does it??  I would bet that 75% of the festools in use would have a void warranty if it did...

Exactly!

What Festool is effectively saying here is if you have a cordless drill (for example) and use anything other than a Festool drill bit or drivers, even quality bits from Wera, etc. you've voided your warranty.... That's not right!

Offline Scott Burt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 1985
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish
Say what you want about Festool, but they keep the lights on in this place so everyone has a chance to get even more upset than the original poster.

These are just tools. There are more important things in life.