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Author Topic: Kapex is DEAD  (Read 49421 times)

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Offline Johncarlo

  • Posts: 55
Kapex is DEAD
« on: September 11, 2016, 08:47 AM »
After 3 years and 3 months of light use my Kapex has die. Not what I expected from a premium tool and large price tag. I'll be calling service to get a rough estimate. I guess a shipping cost also and hope for the best. If the numbers don't add up I guess it's a new saw and I can tell you what saw it won't be...

Sad day when the most expensive saw on site dies first. Egg on my face!

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Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 838
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2016, 12:04 PM »
On the one hand you never see people making a post to say their Kapex is working fine and lots of them, probably massively more than break down, last a long time compared to those that break. So now with that stating the obvious defence out of the way...

It must be statistically impossible that there isn't a problem with the Kapex saws. The sheer number of post in the last year prove that it must by law of averages be a big problem. It's one of Festool's most expensive tools and yet you hear about it breaking down on a weekly basis. The only way this logic could be wrong is if the cheaper tools that Festool sell more of are breaking down just as often, but people don't post about it.

When are Festool going to face up and do the decent thing and fix/recall them? I really would like to buy a Kapex, but not until there's an official admission and rectification of the faults!

Offline rjh

  • Posts: 24
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2016, 12:16 PM »
On the one hand you never see people making a post to say their Kapex is working fine and lots of them, probably massively more than break down, last a long time compared to those that break. So now with that stating the obvious defence out of the way...

It must be statistically impossible that there isn't a problem with the Kapex saws. The sheer number of post in the last year prove that it must by law of averages be a big problem. It's one of Festool's most expensive tools and yet you hear about it breaking down on a weekly basis. The only way this logic could be wrong is if the cheaper tools that Festool sell more of are breaking down just as often, but people don't post about it.

When are Festool going to face up and do the decent thing and fix/recall them? I really would like to buy a Kapex, but not until there's an official admission and rectification of the faults!

This speaks my mind. As a person just getting into a large amount of festool, I am very concerned by these quality reports.

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 777
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2016, 01:11 PM »
As mainly a hobbyist whose saw gets relatively light use and is out of warranty, it's hard not to be concerned hearing these failures.  I too hope Festool comes up with a solution for existing customers. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 930
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2016, 02:00 PM »
I've been absent from the forums for a while, what is FESTOOL's current position on this? 
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Coosbay Dave

  • Posts: 2
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2016, 02:13 PM »
Go through the process.  Contact Festool, get their shipping box and packing materials, ship the thing and expect a turnaround that's reasonable (couple of weeks).  THEN post anything negative that happens.  You got an expensive tool, it will be expensive to fix.  Afterward, you will still have an expensive tool.  Isn't that what you wanted when you began with Festool?

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1345
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2016, 02:58 PM »
Go through the process.  Contact Festool, get their shipping box and packing materials, ship the thing and expect a turnaround that's reasonable (couple of weeks).  THEN post anything negative that happens.  You got an expensive tool, it will be expensive to fix.  Afterward, you will still have an expensive tool.  Isn't that what you wanted when you began with Festool?

Welcome to the FOG

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3394
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2016, 03:07 PM »
Go through the process.  Contact Festool, get their shipping box and packing materials, ship the thing and expect a turnaround that's reasonable (couple of weeks).  THEN post anything negative that happens.  You got an expensive tool, it will be expensive to fix.  Afterward, you will still have an expensive tool.  Isn't that what you wanted when you began with Festool?

I buy Festool based on the old saying that you get what you pay for.
I certainly don't buy just for the sake of owning an expensive tool.

Hoping that the old saying is true I'd expect an expensive high quality tool
that is lightly used to never break down.

On the other hand, I thought that heavy use of a Festool sander to the point of bearing failure would be economical in the long run because it would be "worth fixing". I thought because the price of the tool was so high (relative to other makes) the cost of repair would be a small fraction of the cost of replacement. I was wrong in the case of my old ES 125 E. The estimate was over $100 to replace one bearing when a new tool only cost about $60 more.

I've used a Kapex and it's a really fine saw but I'm not willing to risk that much money to own one knowing that the most expensive kind of failure is not so uncommon.

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2016, 04:10 PM »
Go through the process.  Contact Festool, get their shipping box and packing materials, ship the thing and expect a turnaround that's reasonable (couple of weeks).  THEN post anything negative that happens.  You got an expensive tool, it will be expensive to fix.  Afterward, you will still have an expensive tool.  Isn't that what you wanted when you began with Festool?

Welcome to the FOG
Interesting for a first post I doubt you will post again in the future.
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline SS Teach

  • Posts: 285
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2016, 04:23 PM »
After reading about too many failures with the Kapex I went with a Bosch Axial Glide. Being a hobbiest the price was too steep for a saw that seems somewhat problematic.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set. Domino 500, Domino Systainer, Parallel Guide

Offline Johncarlo

  • Posts: 55
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2016, 09:29 PM »
I know I buy Festool for the quality of tool. I fell in love with their sander first and now own a large number of their tools. I only had one vac in for service with warranty which was a great experience with a four day turn around. Just sad the most expensive tool is the one with the most problems. I had a Makita for 7 years and sold it to a friend when I purchased my Kapex 3 years ago. The Makita is still going strong with no issues today. The kapex seems like a major problem that pops up every few months.

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 413
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2016, 09:56 PM »
will this be discussed at the fraternity party slash if you attend only you can buy the reconditioned tools event.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 4680
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2016, 12:16 AM »
The kapex seems like a major problem that pops up every few months.

Well, let's just say these oem German armature short comings have resurfaced every month...for at least the last 24 months, so it's probably time for Christian (if he really does gives a damm, and more importantly, if he is actually aware of the daily issues, and not just hawking the Festool mantra) to revisit, who should be the new oem armature/motor supplier and who should be written off as "last weeks left over bad news."

In a small to medium sized company the CEO/President can have a profound impact on the actions of his/her employees through empowerment, in a large company (think 3M, GM, Ford...) not so much. I would consider Festool to be hugely influenced by their customer feedback and thus they can react accordingly...they just have not reacted as they should yet...however, their silence tells a tale and is deafening.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2016, 01:27 AM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5675
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2016, 02:11 AM »
I really would like to buy a Kapex, but not until there's an official admission and rectification of the faults!

After reading about too many failures with the Kapex I went with a Bosch Axial Glide.

I too contemplated buying a Kapex, but the high number of failures mentioned here on the FOG put me off. That was 4 or 5 years ago, and I can safely say that last year's posts surely haven't changed my mind yet. It's unbelievable Festool can't seem to address this issue.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6617
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2016, 02:41 AM »
I've been absent from the forums for a while, what is FESTOOL's current position on this?

I think this I posted abit ago might help.  Although my origional post I edited because I went on a little and I need to rewrite it. 
Basically my first post was. 
Kapex burnt out for second time. First time just past 3 year warranty then had it repaired cost me alot  and that lasted another 3 years and burnt out again.  Repair costs and delay with out a kapex wasnt worth it so the kapex has gone into a skip. 
I went on about other festool tools aswell mainly happy things.

I found other posts on Fog about people having kapex failure but they didnt get much notice so I decided to post about my kapex failure.  I gave festool benefit of the doubt when my kapex failed the first time and never posted it on fog but second time taking the ....! 

Here is the link
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/the-life-span/

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Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3640
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2016, 03:38 AM »
A year or so ago I saw a copy of the Kapex @ Sears. Of course it was a whole lot cheaper and probably no where near as acurate. Of course it happened to have been "made in China." I was not interested.  Makita has a SCMS that is made something on the idea of Kapex with a double slide arrangement so it does not take up so much space in back of the saw.  I have not looked at that saw close up, but I think it is only a matter of time before saws are out there that will be just as accurate, just as light weight, and even take as little space as the Kapex.  If Festoy does not address the issue of burnout soon .........................!
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Johncarlo

  • Posts: 55
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2016, 02:18 PM »
 [eek]It's going to cost between $500 and $900 to repair plus shipping!  Speechless .....

Offline safety1st

  • Posts: 130
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2016, 02:30 PM »
Wow, that is hard to swallow. I was hoping that Festool was taking care of things behind the scenes but I guess I am not so sure now.

I have a Kapex that gets used occasionally and now I wish i hadn't sold off my Makita! :(  Feels like a ticking clock.

BTW, are the failures recent? Kapex has been around for a while, why are the failures hitting some sort of crescendo now?

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 328
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2016, 02:35 PM »
I have been using miter saws to make a living for over 40 years and until the Kapex I had not heard of a saw armature burning out! Bearings yes, brushes sure, switches etc.

I am very surprised Festool has not stepped up to the plate on this issue.

Gerry
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Carquest

  • Posts: 31
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2016, 02:54 PM »
Will definitely keep this diy guy from buying a Kapex with all the motor issues I've seen on this forum. Is it only an issue with the 110v versions of this saw?

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 930
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2016, 03:27 PM »
[eek]It's going to cost between $500 and $900 to repair plus shipping!  Speechless .....


Taking a screen shot of this, waiting for it to get deleted...

FESTOOL is saying "you should have bought a dewalt in the first place and we will punish you again"...

helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2016, 04:19 PM »
...
I am very surprised Festool has not stepped up to the plate on this issue.
...

Why does ^that^ surprise you?
What evidence would lead us to believe that they would "step up"?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2016, 05:34 PM »
My expectations for this thread:

- Silence until it gets too inflammatory.
- A mod saying to keep it civil.
- People getting worked up until an employee comments.
- Everyone jumps in to applaud festool for ther customer service.
- Thread fades into obscurity with no resolution.


- Next kapex death thread gets started in another month.

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 670
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2016, 06:23 PM »
Hi!

@Johncarlo

You might want to take part in the Kapex-Survey:

We have heard back from the Festool HQ in Germany about this topic. They have taken a deeper look into the number of repairs and the repair causes. All Kapex-related comments on the FOG were also reviewed.

The findings:
While the number of repairs on the Kapex is slightly higher than expected, it is not a systematic problem. Roughly a third of the repairs are related to the motor, and we are currently looking into the root causes. Despite the fact that this is not an unusual concentration, we take this topic very serious because we understand the trouble every non-functioning tool causes for our customers.

Right now it seems the failures are related to a specific usage pattern (rapid cuts in relatively thin pieces of wood opposed to slower cuts in big beams). To verify this, we would like to ask you for your help.

Here is how you can help: If you have experienced a motor burnout or feel the Kapex has served you less than a fair amount of time, please send an email to kapex@festool.com with the following information:
  • Your contact information (name, e-mail, phone number)
  • What type of work do you mostly use your Kapex for? The more information you can provide, the better. We are especially interested to find out what type of material you are cutting, understand what type of cuts you are mainly doing (rapid cuts in thin material oo more big beams etc.), and how often you are using your saw.
  • Information on the type of failure and what has been done to fix the failure (repairs after what time etc.)
  • Do you use a Kapex 110/120 volt model or a 220/240 volt model?
  • Purchase date or machine numbers if available

We appreciate you are taking the time to send us this information. It will help to better understand what leads to these issues.

--

On the subject, even though I have no dog in this fight:

>>I<< do believe when Festool says they are working on this and >>I<< do believe when they say the overall number of broken/burned out Kapex saws is not significantly higher/ more alerting than those of other tools, statistically speaking / by percentage.

>>I<< also think you can't blame Festool for not discussing and going into all details of this "issue" online - their forum or not.

However >>I<< think that this is an issue that rather sooner than later needs to be addressed a little more in depth, and maybe by someone a little higher up in the food chain ;) , think CEO. That would not only be a strong signal to potential buyers who read/follow the FOG but would also leave those who have (or had) issues with their Kapex knowing that this is still on the table and being looked into - besides the running survey.

>>I<< understand that it might not look too nice, but making the survey a sticky on this board would be a good start.

IMHO. Just my two cents. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11414
  • Another Avatar Coming Soon
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2016, 06:32 PM »
@rizzoa13

You are only partially correct at this point.  I will only point out that ALL THREADS should remain civil.

Regarding this thread - it is civil at this point.

Regarding the content of this thread - let it roll and continue to have no reason to be closed.

Peter

Offline Oldwood

  • Posts: 328
  • Alberta, Canada
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2016, 07:39 PM »
...
I am very surprised Festool has not stepped up to the plate on this issue.
...

Why does ^that^ surprise you?
What evidence would lead us to believe that they would "step up"?

I guess I am just a sucker for a good Slogan "built to last" [embarassed]
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Confucius

Offline Johncarlo

  • Posts: 55
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2016, 11:05 PM »
Thanks Six Point! I'll definitely send that out.

Funny, a third of all repairs sounds like a problem to me. If it was a safety issue we would have a recall but not at 33%?? When you buy the Ferrari of saws with the big motor it should cut everyday for ten years. I baby it with new blades and it's only used to cut five days out of the month.

I have no problem getting my Kapex fixed if I knew the issue was resolved. I love the saw. But to pay that amount only for it to happen again, no thanks! Come on Festool step up to the plate with a fix so I can get my Kapex back in business.





Online Cheese

  • Posts: 4680
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2016, 11:34 PM »
@Johncarlo, I feel for you. However, I have to disagree with you when you state that the Kapex should last for 10 years...for a DIY account it should last for 20+ years.

I have a  Kapex, but I still keep a Milwaukee chop saw and a Milwaukee slider downstairs with Forrest blades attached just in case the Kapex takes a crap. How sad is that? They are both over 15 years old and have cut aluminum, wood and brick, yet I hold on to them to back up a 3 year old Kapex.

So who's the fool...I guess it's me. I think I'll talk with the Festool rep tomorrow.

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 930
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2016, 12:10 AM »
Thanks Six Point! I'll definitely send that out.

Funny, a third of all repairs sounds like a problem to me. If it was a safety issue we would have a recall but not at 33%?? When you buy the Ferrari of saws with the big motor it should cut everyday for ten years. I baby it with new blades and it's only used to cut five days out of the month.

I have no problem getting my Kapex fixed if I knew the issue was resolved. I love the saw. But to pay that amount only for it to happen again, no thanks! Come on Festool step up to the plate with a fix so I can get my Kapex back in business.


Thats a great idea. If one fails, don't fix it, let them sit in the shed and the reputation solidfy.
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2653
Re: Kapex is DEAD
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2016, 12:19 AM »
Well did anyone else notice this shot inside the Festool Workshop in a video posted on the Thread - http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/who's-going-to-the-festool-connect-2016/msg475518/#msg475518.



Sure struck me as interesting.

Now I realise that a Kapex is one of the largest Festools space wise, and sure on another wall there might stacks of ROTEXs awaiting repair, and a lot of us are now (over?) sensitive to this issue following the number of Threads regarding Kapex reliability.

But it still struck me as an interesting shot.

As a testament to the over all reliability provided by a majority of  Festool's products, I also noted that the workshop itself appeared to be quite small.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 12:33 AM by Untidy Shop »
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