Having trouble with your Festool power tool? Well, we're here to help you. Before posting to the forum, give us a chance to diagnose and resolve your issue. In the U.S. and Canada, call us toll-free at 888-337-8600 on Monday-Friday between 8a-5p EST or contact us via email at service@festoolusa.com. For other countries, please visit http://www.festool.com for contact information for your local Festool service department.

Author Topic: Kapex just died  (Read 19083 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Kapex just died
« on: March 14, 2018, 11:18 AM »
My Kapex just died. Strated blowing my circuit and now won't even spin. Definitely an electrical issue with the motor. Anyone know the number for Canada service?

Almost to the day, purchased Mar 25, 2014. 1 year past warranty. Middle of a kitchen project, now what do I do. This will take at least 2 weeks to ship, fix and ship back. Last thing I want to do is buy another one for these two weeks. Thank goodness I kept the box.

JC
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 11:27 AM by JCLP »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 11:48 AM »
 In the U.S. and Canada, call us toll-free at 888-337-8600 on Monday-Friday between 8a-5p EST or contact us via email at service@festoolusa.com.

This is on the Forum page where I saw your post. Can't you deal with your problem through where you bought the saw?

Sorry to hear about the untimely trouble. Yours made me look at my Kapex receipt:
Purchase: 2/18/2015 10:56:32

Just past the warranty period by about a month!!!  [eek]

I was using it for a couple of hours yesterday. I don't know if I have kept the box.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 11:54 AM by ChuckM »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 12:37 PM »
Thank goodness I kept the box and foam packing. Only issue is, Festool is doing maintenance on their web pages and I am not able to start a tool repair request. My dealer has offered to ship it for me. Hopefully I can get it to them today.

Also, in Canada, I don't know about the US, the motor has a 5 year warranty, everything else is 3 years.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3471
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 12:41 PM »
Buy a new one and return it in less than 30 days.

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 192
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 01:08 PM »
Certainly nothing wrong with the Kapex design.  <Cough>

I have a Kapex in a basement workshop that I use sparingly and a cheap Craftsman SCMS in the garage that I use more frequently for quick cuts of everything.  It's a work horse that is not used with delicate hands.  The Kapex gets treated like a queen.

My bet is that the Craftsman saw will last longer than the Kapex.  Pretty sad given that the Kapex cost me 7x the price of the Craftsman.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 01:11 PM by Ajax »
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, LS130, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8517
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 01:09 PM »
Buy a new one and return it in less than 30 days.


I know that Kapex motor failure pops up a lot on FOG but I wouldn't say that a free rental is really the intended use of the 30 day try out period.

However maybe the dealer that JC is working with has a display saw that could be borrowed? Up to the dealer of course.




Seth
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 01:13 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8517
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 01:14 PM »
Thank goodness I kept the box and foam packing. Only issue is, Festool is doing maintenance on their web pages and I am not able to start a tool repair request. My dealer has offered to ship it for me. Hopefully I can get it to them today.

Also, in Canada, I don't know about the US, the motor has a 5 year warranty, everything else is 3 years.

Cheers,
JC


This is interesting. Is that a Canada thing or a Festool thing?

Seth

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 192
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 01:16 PM »
Buy a new one and return it in less than 30 days.


I know that Kapex motor failure is a problem but I wouldn't say that a free rental is really the intended use of the 30 day try out period.

However maybe the dealer that JC is working with has a display saw that could be borrowed? Up to the dealer of course.




Seth


True.  However, one would expect a saw costing 2 to 7 times more than the alternatives to last more than a few years.

I look at the 30 day trial period as being baked into the exceptionally high price of Festools.
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, LS130, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 783
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2018, 01:27 PM »
Is there a way to get the box and packing materials?  I didn’t have space to store and of course there didn’t seem to be as much of a need to retain packing materials back
Code: [Select]
when I got mine. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline Festool USA

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 8379
    • Festool USA
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 01:52 PM »
Sorry to hear that you're having problems with your KAPEX.

Only issue is, Festool is doing maintenance on their web pages and I am not able to start a tool repair request.

The maintenance on the website is done, and the site is live again. You can reach the repair form directly here: https://service.festoolcanada.com/account/repair/

Also, in Canada, I don't know about the US, the motor has a 5 year warranty, everything else is 3 years.

All tools in Canada include a three-year comprehensive warranty.

(Tyler)

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 02:01 PM »
All packed up, repair order generated, delivered to dealer and he will ship it to service depot for me.

The 30 day money back program is not a rental program and I would never take advantage of that. I may just use my neighbours saw. It's not a Kapex, but it should work.

Cheers,
JC


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 03:18 PM »

Also, in Canada, I don't know about the US, the motor has a 5 year warranty, everything else is 3 years.

Cheers,
JC

That was news to me, but a good one. Thanks.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2018, 03:22 PM »

The 30 day money back program is not a rental program and I would never take advantage of that. I may just use my neighbours saw. It's not a Kapex, but it should work.

Cheers,
JC
I think that suggestion was just a sarcasm. I have seen it before in this Forum and I wonder if too many people have really done that.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 04:38 PM »
For well over a year now, I have been reading a lot of threads by others who have had motor issues with their Kapex. I felt very luck and happy that my Kapex has not had any issues until today. I purchased my Kapex on March 25, 2014 and it has been running like a dream until it died early this morning. When the threads starting popping up, I may it a point to blow out the motor with compressed air at least once every month so to try and not get any motor issues. Well, in hind sight that was a waste of time. I think Festool has to own up to the fact there is a problem with their motor design for the Kapex and send the engineers back to the drawing board and fix it once and for all. I have owned a Ridgid and Dewalt sliding mitre saws and never had any issues. I sold both of them to purchase a Kapex. In hind sight again, I should have kept one. Paying top dollar for a tool, one would assume it would last. I had 2 ets125 die on me shortly after their 3 year term due to over use. Thank goodness they are cheap enough that I can just go purchase another one.

If any of my sanders end up kicking the bucket shortly after their 3 year warranty is up, I will be going to another brand that is cheaper and I know will last probably a lifetime.

Now for the Kapex. If Festool service comes back to me and says that it will cost $500.00 or more for repairing my saw, I may tell them to keep it for spare parts and I will be seriously looking at going with another brand that I know will last for much longer, just like my previous saws before I sold them and purchased a Kapex.

My rant for the day,

JC
 

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2018, 05:06 PM »
I just read somewhere that if the Kapex, or any other tool for that matter, is not able to draw enough amps, that you do run the risk of motor burn out over a period of time. So this got me thinking and decided to some reading.
 The Kapex manual, US version, says that the Kapex draws 13A ( 1600 W ) of power and the US manual for the CT26/36 says that the total connected load is 12A ( 1440W). I'm not an electrician but something smells fishy here. Kapex wants 13A but is only getting 12A. Can someone please explain this? My understanding of this is that the Kapex should not be connected to the CT26/36 and should be on it's own outlet, thus eliminating the Auto start function.


Cheers,
JC

Offline manuc

  • Posts: 12
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2018, 05:11 PM »
I’ve been wanting the Kapex for about a year now but have held back just because of this. Won’t buy one until they redesign it to correct the issue.

Hopefully Festool will eventually listen.

Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 177
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2018, 05:25 PM »
Me as well...  [sad]

I’ve been wanting the Kapex for about a year now but have held back just because of this. Won’t buy one until they redesign it to correct the issue.

Hopefully Festool will eventually listen.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2018, 05:33 PM »
I just read somewhere that if the Kapex, or any other tool for that matter, is not able to draw enough amps, that you do run the risk of motor burn out over a period of time. So this got me thinking and decided to some reading.
 
Cheers,
JC

I don't know if it helps, but having read the same thing you wrote about in your post, when I use my shop vac and the Kapex with this automatic switch: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63013&cat=1,42401,72660 , I use the 30amp set-up.

In addition, to play safe, I use a 12 gauge (15 amp), 10' long extension cord, also from LVT.

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 939
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2018, 05:41 PM »
I really have to push back on this response from you.

That is exactly what Kapex owners should do. Yes... its morally questionable but so is the response from Festool over the unsound motors.

Buy a new one and return it in less than 30 days.


I know that Kapex motor failure pops up a lot on FOG but I wouldn't say that a free rental is really the intended use of the 30 day try out period.

However maybe the dealer that JC is working with has a display saw that could be borrowed? Up to the dealer of course.




Seth
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2018, 05:45 PM »
I just read somewhere that if the Kapex, or any other tool for that matter, is not able to draw enough amps, that you do run the risk of motor burn out over a period of time. So this got me thinking and decided to some reading.
 
Cheers,
JC

I don't know if it helps, but having read the same thing you wrote about in your post, when I use my shop vac and the Kapex with this automatic switch: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63013&cat=1,42401,72660 , I use the 30amp set-up.

In addition, to play safe, I use a 12 gauge (15 amp), 10' long extension cord, also from LVT.
Hi Chuck,

Do you plug this switch into two separate 15 A circuits?

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2018, 05:49 PM »
Well, according to the CT26/36 manuals, the Kapex should never be plugged into the dust extractors as it draws more power then the CT26/36 can provide. There is even a warning in the CT26/36 manual.

Cheers,
JC

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2018, 05:56 PM »

Hi Chuck,

Do you plug this switch into two separate 15 A circuits?

Yes. I ran two additional 15A outlets into my shop and so the shop outlets are on three separate 15A circuits.

I also have a 20amp outlet I recently wired to my shop from the panel, and I use it for the same kind of auto switch for my tablesaw and dust collector. The 20 amp outlet is added as I just bought a welder.

Since the 20amp outlet is used with another 15amp outlet for the saw, there have been no more tripping.

I spent close to $400 for an electrician to install a 220V circuit for my shop (garage heater) and, after watching him, I have learned how to run my own circuits afterwards.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 06:02 PM by ChuckM »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2018, 06:02 PM »

Hi Chuck,

Do you plug this switch into two separate 15 A circuits?

Yes. I ran two additional 15A outlets into my shop and so the shop outlets are on three separate 15A circuits.

I also have a 20amp outlet I recently wired to my shop from the panel, and I use it for the same kind of auto switch for my tablesaw and dust collector. The 20 amp outlet is added as I just bought a welder.

Since the 20amp outlet is used with another 15amp outlet for the saw, there have been no more tripping.
Thanks Chuck. When I get my saw back, I'm going shopping. Just checked the TS75 track saw manual, and it too draws more power then the CT26/36 can provide. The TS55 is good though.

JC

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 218
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2018, 07:01 PM »
There are two issues here...can the CT vac supply the draw demanded by a tool and does the outlet the CT vac is plugged into have adequate supply for both the vac and the tool.  I will only run my Kapex directly off a 20A circuit, I would never supply my Kapex from my CT-26, and I only use the CT-26 with tools rated comfortably under its maximum supply from the tool outlet and with the vac plugged into a 20A circuit.

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 783
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2018, 07:05 PM »
Have the majority of people who have had a failure been running off a vac?
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2018, 07:11 PM »
I will only run my Kapex directly off a 20A circuit, I would never supply my Kapex from my CT-26, and I only use the CT-26 with tools rated comfortably under its maximum supply from the tool outlet and with the vac plugged into a 20A circuit.

But don't they sell CT26 and Kapex in a package deal?

Before I sold my CT26, I ran the Kapex (and every other Festool machine) with the CT. I was not aware that you were not supposed to use the CT autostart and the Kapex as one unit.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2018, 07:34 PM »
If you look at Festool USA tv on YouTube, you can see instances of the Kapex plugged into the dust extractor. Their road shows, training classes etc have this setup. As you said Chuck, they do sell it as a package. The TS75 track saw and the 2200 router should not be plugged in according to the manuals.

Cheers. JC

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 08:13 PM by ChuckM »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2018, 08:32 PM »
You have to look at page 6. The Ts75 requires 13 A and the ct26/36 only puts out 12A. To me that is a problem. It's a small difference, but over time it does and will cause a problem. Just like smoking.

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 801
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2018, 08:43 PM »
Sorry about your Kapex.

I would like to hear officially from Festool that it is safe to use any of their power tools including the Kapex, TS75, OF2200, and HL850 with their Mini, Midi, CT26, CT36, and CT48.

I have 3 separate 20A circuits in my basement shop just for my Festool’s, so I could run a CT off one and the tool off another if I needed to. How many people have that luxury, especially people working on a job sight? I will run at least 3 more 20A circuits in my garage when I’m running the wire for the other circuits for my machinery.

I would assume that there may be a lot of people running their tools off a 15A circuit. I wonder how many of the Kapex failers happend on a 15A circuit when the Kapex was plugged into a CT? I would also like to know the failure rate on a 20A circuit and those that failed when the Kapex and CT were on different circuits. I highly doubt that any information will ever be provided to us.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 08:47 PM by Runhard »
Daniel

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2018, 09:15 PM »
The Kapex needs 13A to start up and will use less power if the load on the blade is not that much. I believe the Ct26 requires 8-9 A. 13 plus 8 is 21. Therefore 1 15 A circuit will not be suffice power. It will work, but over time it will cause problems as we our seeing burned out motors. I don't think we will see anything soon as Fedtool has been promoting this system. If you look at the Fein dust extractors they only provide 9 A in their plug.

Cheers.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 877
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2018, 09:33 PM »
The current that you get from any electrical outlet is not limited to or reduced by the rating of the circuit. The limiting factor is the CB which will trip and remove the power if the demand is greater than it is designed to deliver. The limit on the CT is not the max that they can supply but the max that they should supply. The limit is for the safety of the CT not the device that is plugged into it, it is there to protect the CT's wiring.

Drawing max power from an underrated circuit may result in a slight drop in the voltage due to the thinner wire but this would be less than the normal variation in the supply. One the other hand running off a long undersized extension cord (or wiring) may drop the voltage enough that the motor current increases enough to overheat the motor even though it is not exceeding the CB's rating.

The only way to check that everything is fine is to measure the voltage at the motor when it is under full load and if that is correct and the CB doesn't trip then your power is fine.

If the motor still burns out then it is not suitable for the work that you are doing and unfortunately I feel that this is where the Kapex lands.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2018, 09:42 PM »
My CT26 is plugged into a dedicated 15A circuit with no extension. The Kapex plugged directly into the 26. The work I do is cabinet making and do about 2 kitchens a year. I have never cut any 2x4's with this saw. 95% of my work is cutting shelves to length and cutting profile trim for cabinets, rails and stiles.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8517
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2018, 10:32 PM »
I would like to refer everyone to this statement from Festool. Perhaps @TylerC can confirm if this is still the case.

     http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/amp-rating-on-festool-dust-extractor-outlet/msg416034/#msg416034

Seth

Offline Jimdude

  • Posts: 40
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #34 on: March 15, 2018, 07:34 AM »
I would like to refer everyone to this statement from Festool. Perhaps @TylerC can confirm if this is still the case.

     http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/amp-rating-on-festool-dust-extractor-outlet/msg416034/#msg416034

Seth
From that statement: “To reduce the risk of fire, only connect a tool rated 3.1 amp. maximum to this receptacle”.

Is that a typo or something? 3.1A is what my beardtrimmer draws (well not really, i'm being hyperbolic). It's certainly not the 13A that the Kapex requires.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 218
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #35 on: March 15, 2018, 08:17 AM »
The reality here is that the Kapex, or at least the 120V spec Kapex has shown itself to be susceptible to motor failure.  Lacking any specific info from Festool and only having the anecdotal stories that appear here, we have no idea what the frequency of the problem is nor what the root cause is.  In the face of this situation prudent owners of this $1500 piece of equipment are wise to avoid stressing the weakness of this tool and overloading the supply circuit is certainly one way to stress it.  Fetsools own specs on the CT vacs seem to suggest only the foolhardy would connect a Kapex to the switched outlet.  If an extension cord is needed the modest investment required for a quality 12ga cord is very cheap insurance.  If you have a dedicated 20A outlet you'd be wise to plug your Kapex there, if not you'd be wise to install one. 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3471
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2018, 08:52 AM »
My previous comment about buying and returning a stop-gap saw was equal parts sarcasm and advise.

A properly designed and manufactured motor should last decades. The only repairs required should be brushes and bearings.

Festool should have a rapid replacement program to cover motor issues. And an extended warranty program for same. Until they do I think it’s appropriate for owners of defective saws to avail themselves of the only effective way to get back to work quickly and pressure Festool to take responsibility for this product.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8517
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2018, 08:57 AM »
I would like to refer everyone to this statement from Festool. Perhaps @TylerC can confirm if this is still the case.

     http://festoolownersgroup.com/ask-festool/amp-rating-on-festool-dust-extractor-outlet/msg416034/#msg416034

Seth
From that statement: “To reduce the risk of fire, only connect a tool rated 3.1 amp. maximum to this receptacle”.

Is that a typo or something? 3.1A is what my beardtrimmer draws (well not really, i'm being hyperbolic). It's certainly not the 13A that the Kapex requires.



Yes, but it goes on to say the following-----------------

            Festool CT Dust Extractors are designed to be used with every Festool product in normal working environments.  In short, you will be fine to use any of our tools  with the CT.  We do it all the time without issue.  Remember that although it is capable of pulling 10 amps of current, it won't approach that level of draw in most applications.


      An update or clarification would be good.

         As far as anecdotal is concerned it is very hard to know the cause and probably makes sense to ere on the safe side.  However the anecdotes related to running it off the CT are most likely a huge number on the non-failure side. I have to believe that there are umpteen (a big relative number that is not scientific or exact  [smile] ) users running Kapex, TS75 etc off the CT without issue, me included.

Seth

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3471
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2018, 09:16 AM »
I don’t think the problem with the Kapex motor is a power supply issue. If it is then Festool is going the opposite way if they want to avoid future burn-outs.

Recent CTs have received a reduced capacity power cord, now 14 gauge down from 12. My old CT Mini came with a 12 gauge cord with a 20 amp plug and a 20 to 15 amp adapter.

The tool activated recepticle on that Mini says (paraphrased) “to reduce risk of fire, when connected to a 20 amp circuit limit tool to 6 amps. When connected to a 15 amp circuit limit tool to 2 amps”.

I’m not an electrician but it’s my understanding that the above warning and practically all warnings about the limits of electrical supplies refers to continuous use. Think of the duty cycle rating of a welder for example. Even when I’m ripping a stack of boards with the TS 75 (with a DD equipped Mini) the duty cycle is only around 50%. In use the bottom line is to check the temperature of the plug at the main. If it’s very warm give it a rest.

I’ve been using power tools for over 40 years and only one motor has failed. An orange colored B&D drill used for mixing drywall mud, probably designed for a 10% duty cycle. There is almost no way to exceed the duty cycle of a properly designed miter saw.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 09:23 AM by Michael Kellough »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2018, 09:38 AM »
I agree, that many of us, if not all, do use our Festool power tools with our CT's. It's the best dust free solution on the market and I have enjoyed it and benefited from it over the last 4 years. Clients all always impressed with how clean the work area is.

Now, I'm no electrician, but as a layman when it comes to power supply, my only source of information is the operating intsructions that comes with every tool purchased. If you at the Technical Data section on the CT26/36 manual you will see that the Total connected Load is not to exceed 12A and when the CT is at it's lowest level of suction, the maximal rating of a connected power tool can be 9.1A. This right from the manual.
So now I take out the manual for the Kapex and read the Technical Specification section and see that it requires 13A. So I conclude that the Kapex should not be plugged into the CT and should be on a non-loaded 15A circuit. If you plug in the CT into a 15 A circuit, it will draw a medium value of 8.3A, but a maximum power consumption of 10 A is possible.

So using simple math, I have a 15 A circuit, CT26/36 will use an average of 8.3 A and the Kapex needs 13 A. 8.3 plus 13 equals 21.3 A. So according to the math, a 20 A circuit will not be suffice.

Now, I have been told that over current (Amps ) and to low of current will cause over heating in the motor, thus deteriorating
the insulation in the windings, and over time will cause motor failure.

Please keep in mind that I'm by no means an electrical expert of pretend to be one, so the only info I can rely on are the operating instructions from manuals.

The other concern I have is Warranty. If you read the Warranty page you will see the following statement.

" This warranty is valid on the pre-condition that the tool is used and operated in compliance with the Festool operating instructions"

So based on the operating instructions of both the CT26/36 and Kapex KS 120 manual, plugging the Kapex into the dust extractor is not in compliance with the Festool operating instructions. This is based solely on the technical specs for both machines.

Thought I would share my findings for the morning.


Cheers,
JC



Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3471
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2018, 10:01 AM »
My 6 year old Fein Turbo II 9-20-25 vac has a tool activated receptacle rated at 19 amps. Can't possibly think that Fein engineers are somehow smarter or more capable than Festool engineers, but it makes you wonder. I've plugged just about everything into it, TS75, 12" miter saw, worm drive saw (converted for dust collection), even a Bosch 4100 table saw. My shed has 30 amp lines so I'm never concerned about the outlet draw or kicking breakers.

The Fein vacs are pretty robust. I hang a 16 year old Turbo lol from my shop ceiling with a DD down in easier reach and plug anything I want to run into it. (Now that I write this I remember that the Auto/Manual switch died so I have to turn on the vac to get a tool to run, which increases the delayed start of the tool). I read that CNC guys use them as vacuum table hold downs and run them for 24 hours at a time.

Whatever the Festool manual says it’s accepted practice and demonstrated use (by Festool employees at roadshows etc.) to exceed the specs in the manual. Also, between the soft start of the tools and delayed start of the vac you aren’t pulling full load of either tool at the same time.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2018, 12:09 PM »
I am paying close attention to this thread to draw out the "best practice" lessons for using my Kapex. But I must say never have I had the slightest concern in the past with any power tools in my shop about the effects of current & voltage on their longevity.

I have never bothered to read anything about amps in any manual and presume if it is sold in N.A., my regular circuits would be fine. And, if anything goes wrong, it is only the tripping of the breaker that bothers me (as I have to go down to the basement for the panel), but nothing else.

If Festool could identify the Kapex motor issue and find a fix (even if it is a new and redesigned motor) once and for all, I would rather pay to get the fix and get over with it.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I am paying close attention to this thread to draw out the "best practice" lessons for using my Kapex. But I must say never have I had the slightest concern in the past with any power tools in my shop about the effects of current & voltage on their longevity.

I have never bothered to read anything about amps in any manual and presume if it is sold in N.A., my regular circuits would be fine. And, if anything goes wrong, it is only the tripping of the breaker that bothers me (as I have to go down to the basement for the panel), but nothing else.

(Even for the new welder (20amp specified in the manual), many past user reviews suggested it could be used on a 15amp circuit with no issues (probably because of the duty cycle thing). I installed a 20 amp outlet just for added assurance.)

If Festool could identify the Kapex motor issue and find a fix (even if it is a new and redesigned motor) once and for all, I would rather pay to get the fix and get over with it.

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 566
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2018, 12:26 PM »
This isn't related to the Kapex directly, but we had 2 electric lawn mowers die within a relatively short lifespan (I think like 1 - 1.5 cutting seasons) back in the early to middle 1990's.  I believe the premature motor failure was the result of the combination of using too long of an extension cord and not a heavy enough gauge cord, which ultimately resulted in insufficient voltage to the motor.

I had no way of proving this for a fact, but this has been my theory for why those electric lawn mowers didn't last very long.

The Bosch Axial-Glide Saws look pretty nice.  I have no idea how it stacks up to the Kapex or other Sliding Compound Miter Saws, but it looks like it can be positioned much closer to a wall than a traditional SCMS.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 605
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2018, 01:18 PM »
Improperly gauged extension cords are a problem for anything electrical. There are charts in some tool instruction manuals showing minimum wire gauges for different lengths. You can never go wrong using larger gauge extension cords. The only downsides are weight and bulk.

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 566
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2018, 01:34 PM »
Maybe people don't realize the importance of the wire gauge?  Or maybe it's just something that I didn't realize.

I know before I never thought anything about it.  It was basically like, hmm just plug those 2 cheap random extension cords together so it's long enough and we're good to go.  The tool works so everything must be good right???  I didn't know anything about the concept of voltage drop until I looked into it one day.

It never ceases to amaze me about all the good nuggets of information you can learn when you read the instruction manual - sooooo that's what that button is for.  I know I'm very often guilty of not reading a manual when I first get a tool or any device for that matter.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1183
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2018, 02:10 PM »
I'm just going to say this assuming someone at Festool HQ is reading this.  It's clear that there is a problem to almost everyone that reads this forum regularly or anyone that browses reviews on other websites.  7 out of the 10 most recent reviews on A****n are very poor, specifically addressing issues customers experienced with the motor.  Personally, I don't care whether the problem with the Kapex is on my end, a short sighted design or a batch of bad parts.  I bought the saw and use it because I like it.  At this point, if the motor burns up, I don't even care who is going to pay for it (-->out of warranty).  What I would like is an answer - a solution and a path to make sure my saw doesn't burn up at an inconvenient time.  Maybe there are steps I can take to avoid a failure?  Maybe it's outside my control?  Maybe I need to send it in to have a part changed?  Just tell me.  I understand there are legalities and liabilities to be considered for a company, but don't let that hamstring you from acting in your customer's interest or you will continue to erode a reputation that took years to earn. 
-Raj

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 783
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2018, 02:21 PM »
Amen to RKA's post.   [not worthy]
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2018, 06:48 PM »
Festool has done their job whether you want to believe or not. They state with every tools the amp draw and on the vacs they say the max amperage available and what the vac requires. Do they have to require a completed math exam before tool purchase? If you don't  understand make sure you do your research before you purchase. Do they have to put on the machines in bold fluorescent pink not to be used with CT vacuum power source. Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4826
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2018, 06:58 PM »
Amen to RKA's post.   [not worthy]

I’ll give 2 Amens & a Hallelujah to RKA’s post. [not worthy]  [not worthy]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2018, 07:42 PM »
Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11499
  • Another Avatar Coming Soon
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2018, 07:59 PM »
Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

No one in the public area knows how widespread this is or why some are having issues or why some are and some aren't.

Peter

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1421
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2018, 08:03 PM »
Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.
Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.
Probably not, since TS75 or OF2200 don't have the same failure rate. I mean how many FOG post have you read saying "my TS75 is on it's third motor" etc?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4826
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2018, 10:38 PM »
Probably not, since TS75 or OF2200 don't have the same failure rate. I mean how many FOG post have you read saying "my TS75 is on it's third motor" etc?

I’m with Svar on this one. When was the last time we had a thread that read “My TS 75 or my OF 2200” crapped out while using a Festool vac.

However, it would be interesting to tally up the number of failed Kapex’s that have been identified on this site. I think the total is larger than you’d suspect...probably even larger than Festool will admit to.  [poke]

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 192
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2018, 11:51 PM »
I'm just going to say this assuming someone at Festool HQ is reading this.  It's clear that there is a problem to almost everyone that reads this forum regularly or anyone that browses reviews on other websites.  7 out of the 10 most recent reviews on A****n are very poor, specifically addressing issues customers experienced with the motor.  Personally, I don't care whether the problem with the Kapex is on my end, a short sighted design or a batch of bad parts.  I bought the saw and use it because I like it.  At this point, if the motor burns up, I don't even care who is going to pay for it (-->out of warranty).  What I would like is an answer - a solution and a path to make sure my saw doesn't burn up at an inconvenient time.  Maybe there are steps I can take to avoid a failure?  Maybe it's outside my control?  Maybe I need to send it in to have a part changed?  Just tell me.  I understand there are legalities and liabilities to be considered for a company, but don't let that hamstring you from acting in your customer's interest or you will continue to erode a reputation that took years to earn.

I suspect it’s a design flaw and Festool knows that if they admit to this the flood gates will open.  If it was a safety issue, they would respond quickly because the litigation would eat them alive.

When you sell a $1400+ saw the thing better be solid.  If this happened to a $150 Harbor Freight saw nobody would care.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 11:54 PM by Ajax »
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, LS130, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2018, 07:47 AM »
Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

Like has been the constant in these threads Festool has not given a reason. Unless you have somehow figured out a way to alter the properties of electricity, if you plug the Kapex directly into the Vac to use the autostart you have a potential burnout in the making. They should be operated independently on 2 seperate 15 or 20 amp 120V circuits.

Offline Peter Durand

  • Posts: 191
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2018, 04:13 PM »
Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

No one in the public area knows how widespread this is or why some are having issues or why some are and some aren't.

Peter

Except of course Festool. And they ain't talking. I have one connected exclusively to a 33 and has worked well for many many years. Light duty-I have only gone through 3 bags of dust. However now every time I go to use it I am wondering if it will be the last. If it conks out I certainly will not be sending it for an expensive repair or buying another one. Regretfully.

Cheers,

Peter
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 01:46 PM by Peter Durand »

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 801
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2018, 06:03 PM »
Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

Like has been the constant in these threads Festool has not given a reason. Unless you have somehow figured out a way to alter the properties of electricity, if you plug the Kapex directly into the Vac to use the autostart you have a potential burnout in the making. They should be operated independently on 2 seperate 15 or 20 amp 120V circuits.

Then why does Festool tell us that we can use any of their tools plugged into any of the CT dust collectors?

From Festool:
"Festool CT Dust Extractors are designed to be used with every Festool product in normal working environments.  In short, you will be fine to use any of our tools with the CT.  We do it all the time without issue.  Remember that although it is capable of pulling 10 amps of current, it won't approach that level of draw in most applications. 

Brent"

(I'm assuming that Brent is a Festool employee.)

Daniel
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 07:10 PM by Runhard »
Daniel

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2018, 06:51 PM »
Brent.
I do agree that the Kapex seems to work well plugged into the CT but unless Festool has figured out a way to change the laws of physics it is not possible to get optimal performance and life expectancy when plugged into a circuit that will only provide 5-6.5 A on average. The saw needs close to 13 A to run efficiently and not void the warranty. Hearing that every thing works well drive me nuts. The English language is such a grey language. Saying it works, yes can be true, but define the word "works". The only sure thing we can depend on is the math. 2 plus 2 is 4 in every language all over the world. If you read the Festool operational specs for the CT and the Kapex you will see that the math makes sense. My Kapex worked well for 4 years on the CT. Remember, low current and high current will damage a motor. It's pure math and physics.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 860
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2018, 08:33 PM »
Unfortunately this has been a long drawn out discussion for years on FoG and else where that will not end.   Festool either doesn’t care that there is an obvious issue with the Kapex, or they are arrogant enough to know people will keep buying the saw even though a problem exists.  This Kapex issue has made me lose trust in the brand.   I do like and use Festool items everyday but now I am more willing to look in other directions besides Festool. 

Offline Wooden Skye

  • Posts: 1140
  • My little girl was called home 12-28-15
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2018, 08:55 PM »
I have read this entire thread, and Kapex failures, almost seem to rival SawStop threads. 

JCLP, with all do respect and hopefully you don't think I'm trying to start an argument (devils advocate type of thing).  I get that you don't like having to send the saw in for service, especially since you use the saw to make a living. I don't think it is as simple based on the math and other reasons stated.  If it is really that simple, then why did you start this thread?  You ran the saw through your CT for 4 years, you should have expected the failure, laws of physics and all?  Didn't you read the manual during the 4 years?  Maybe it isn't so simple after all. 

I don't own the Kapex, just never felt the price was justified.  However, Festool stating that all there tools can be run through the CT, is somewhat BS.  By not recognizing or admitting that the motor burn ups reported are due to not enough amps, then it is poor design and Festool is speaking half truths and should be held accountable.  Most people, me included don't fully read manuals.  They preach the use of all tools as a system, but if the system causes failure then why shouldn't they be more transparent in the reasoning behind the failures.  As others have mentioned, the OF2200 and TS75 don't seem to have similar issues.  They should be more clear that all tools aren't to be used as part of the system approach, offer a better warranty on the Kapex, or redesign the Kapex and even the CT to handle the loads of all tools as a system.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2018, 09:03 PM by Wooden Skye »
Bryan

TS 55, (2) 1400 Guide Rails, 1900 Guide Rail, MFT/3, Domino DF 500, 2 domino systainers, ETS 150/3, RO 90, CT 26, (2) OF1400, RO 150. RTS 400, LR 32 set, PS300 jigsaw, 3 abrasive systainers, (2) sys toolbox, (2) sys mini, clamps and other accesories

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline TXFIVEO

  • Posts: 215
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2018, 09:31 PM »
I had the Kapex and stand in my cart and ready to purchase but a voice in my head had me second guessing.  So I decided to stick with my work horse Dewalt DWS780. Have had it for three years with ZERO issues.  A beast.  If Festool would simply fix the known issue by replacing motors then I would be sold.  Until then, I will keep using the Dewalt. 

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 408
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2018, 02:53 AM »
I had the Kapex and stand in my cart and ready to purchase but a voice in my head had me second guessing.  So I decided to stick with my work horse Dewalt DWS780. Have had it for three years with ZERO issues.  A beast.  If Festool would simply fix the known issue by replacing motors then I would be sold.  Until then, I will keep using the Dewalt.

The Dewalt 780 is a workhorse you see in cabinet shops everywhere.  If you get part from Infinity Tools you can improve it’s cutting accuracy.

Hopefully Festool does more to resolve it’s Kapex issues.  It has the potential to be the top shop miter saw.  They can’t expect people to be confident in spending huge coin on the Kapex until they fix the motor.
Festool CT Midi, Festool ETS 125, DF 700 Domino Coming Soon

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2018, 11:41 AM »
a) The Dewalt 780 is a workhorse you see in cabinet shops everywhere.  If you get part from Infinity Tools you can improve it’s cutting accuracy.

Could you please elaborate a bit on this or post a link where I can find more info. on that? If my Kapex died, I would like to find a more reliable alternative.

b)  They can’t expect people to be confident in spending huge coin on the Kapex until they fix the motor.

Perhaps they are expecting that. Fair question: How many people who are considering to buy a Kapex know about its motor issue if they don't browse this Forum?

I did not until I bought the Kapex and became a member of this Forum. Had I read about all the "Kapex just died" stories during my search for a better mitre saw, the Kapex would have been ruled out, not for money factor but for reliability reasons. I never buy or own a new car that does not have a good reliability track record. All new cars are reliable until after the 5 or 6 year warranty period and that is when a reliable car matters.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 11:45 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 408
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2018, 01:49 PM »
a) The Dewalt 780 is a workhorse you see in cabinet shops everywhere.  If you get part from Infinity Tools you can improve it’s cutting accuracy.

Could you please elaborate a bit on this or post a link where I can find more info. on that? If my Kapex died, I would like to find a more reliable alternative.

b)  They can’t expect people to be confident in spending huge coin on the Kapex until they fix the motor.

Perhaps they are expecting that. Fair question: How many people who are considering to buy a Kapex know about its motor issue if they don't browse this Forum?

I did not until I bought the Kapex and became a member of this Forum. Had I read about all the "Kapex just died" stories during my search for a better mitre saw, the Kapex would have been ruled out, not for money factor but for reliability reasons. I never buy or own a new car that does not have a good reliability track record. All new cars are reliable until after the 5 or 6 year warranty period and that is when a reliable car matters.

They have a zero clearance at Infinity for the 780 along with better blades for a clean cut. 

https://www.infinitytools.com/saw-blades-accessories/miter-saw-blades-accessories/miter-saw-zero-clearance-inserts

The Kapex issues are well known on Twitter and Facebook.  It’s not just a forum discussion.  It’s something Festool needs to address.
Festool CT Midi, Festool ETS 125, DF 700 Domino Coming Soon

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 366
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2018, 02:13 PM »
So much talk has been spent about amps and draw and where you plug it in. My Dewalt and Hitachi have run thousands of cutts off a 100’ small gauge cord before and never had the motors burn up.  The kapex is made of glass and I wouldn’t buy it if it were half the price until they fix this lemon.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2018, 03:26 PM »
So much talk has been spent about amps and draw and where you plug it in.

And despite all that electrical precaution, it still does not give me any assurance that my Kapex won't die out of nowhere....

That -- not the money spent -- is the sad part. :-[

Online Womble

  • Posts: 29
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2018, 04:15 PM »
I have to agree, all this talk about you need a power supply that meets a specific criteria is just twaddle.

The real world just doesn't work like this & also even the tolerances allowed by the National Grid here in the UK can vary massively. I have never had any issues ever with any other brand of tools in 35yrs apart from Festool when it comes to being so poorly designed with power requirements.

It isn't just the Kapex the TS 55 is also massively under powered and will often spin in slow motion on longer cable runs whereas plug a Makita Circular saw into the same lead & it runs absolutely fine.But admittedly i am not aware of the TS55s going up in smoke like the Kapex's.  I do own a 110v Kapex KA60 & was very nervous about ordering it, but in the end i hoped Festool had addressed the 110v motor issues as it was a new model & any company would be beyond stupid to use the same components in a new product knowing their was issues with the originally used components.

The fact is these are supposed to be high end tools for professionals (but i do think quality has deteriorated over recent years) & as such should be properly designed to account for power voltage/amp fluctuations, every other major power tool manufacturer manages to do this & i honestly do not understand why Festool struggle with this.

Offline Green Mojo

  • Posts: 50
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2018, 04:23 PM »
Yeah, it’s sad because either they know what is wrong and won’t fix it or they can’t figure out what is wrong. Not sure which one of those is worse.

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 366
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2018, 04:47 PM »
At this point they can’t say anything. If they did come out and report a flaw in the saw, you’d have tons of angry clients who had to pony up their hard earned money to fix their saws out of warranty.  I’d want my money back and I’d raise a heck of stink.  Remaining silent is what will keep them safe and I’m sure their high paid lawyers are telling them to keep quiet. Meanwhile they are driving their companies long excellent  reputation into the dirt.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 932
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #70 on: March 18, 2018, 04:51 AM »
TS 55 is also massively under powered and will often spin in slow motion on longer cable runs
This likely is the motor overheat protection kicking in: it massively throttles down the power to (and the RPM of) the motor, a cut won't be possible anymore as it will stall near instantly, but allows you to run the saw (while not in material) allowing the motor fan to remove the excess heat quickly.

Should it run slow from the start with a long extension cord: fix your power supply situation as it's clearly out of spec.

Offline Rollin22Petes

  • Posts: 177
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2018, 12:24 PM »
And what about the guys like me that  don't run there Kapex through a dust extractor or an extension cord but have still burned up several motors currently on it's third. I'm so sick of hearing that you can't do this or that or you risk burning up your saw. I have 8 employees and tools from probably every major manufacture and have never experienced the failure rate I have had with Festool. This saw is simply flawed and for what ever reason it's obvious Festool is not going too acknowledge that fact or come up with any kind of solution. How is it that every other manufacture can make saws that last years without a single hiccup and at a fraction of the cost ? When my Kapex burns up it's current motor (not if but when) it's not getting it repaired but it's going in the trash and getting replaced by a more reliable and cheaper saw.

Online Womble

  • Posts: 29
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #72 on: March 18, 2018, 04:26 PM »
TS 55 is also massively under powered and will often spin in slow motion on longer cable runs
This likely is the motor overheat protection kicking in: it massively throttles down the power to (and the RPM of) the motor, a cut won't be possible anymore as it will stall near instantly, but allows you to run the saw (while not in material) allowing the motor fan to remove the excess heat quickly.

Should it run slow from the start with a long extension cord: fix your power supply situation as it's clearly out of spec.

Like i say other tools work perfectly ok & as expected on the very same long cable runs despite being "out of spec" but i do understand the issues of voltage drop & usually mitigate this by using the 32A outlets on power distribution boxes & then using a fly lead to drop down to 16A leads.

It isn't an issue of the overheat protection kicking in when the saw hasn't even done any cuts, it is a case of the saw being under powered & very poorly designed on the electronics speed control & power tolerances circuitry. The TS 55 REQ often bogs down and struggles to cut even 18mm MDF with no long cable runs & sharp blade.

I have also had the saws protection refuse to the start the saw as if the brushes were worn out, but when removed 99% of the brushes were still intact (the saw was less 1yr old at the time) however fitting new brushes instantly fixed the issue yet again pointing to flaws in the electronics on the TS 55 REQ. I also know of another person who has experienced this exact issue also.

I own quite a few Festool tools & have more on my to get list, but i honestly see absolutely no value at all in defending Festool & maming excuses for them on these known issues, the facts are that they need to fix these design issues, no if buts or maybes about it. Mafell do not suffer from these issues & as a result people are starting to jump ship & are willing the pay the extra premium in order to not experience these power & motor problems.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2018, 05:52 PM »
Looking forward to hear from Festool Canada service this coming week. Hopefully it will be an easy fix and not too costly.

JC

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 768
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2018, 08:11 PM »
And what about the guys like me that  don't run there Kapex through a dust extractor or an extension cord but have still burned up several motors currently on it's third. I'm so sick of hearing that you can't do this or that or you risk burning up your saw. I have 8 employees and tools from probably every major manufacture and have never experienced the failure rate I have had with Festool. This saw is simply flawed and for what ever reason it's obvious Festool is not going too acknowledge that fact or come up with any kind of solution. How is it that every other manufacture can make saws that last years without a single hiccup and at a fraction of the cost ? When my Kapex burns up it's current motor (not if but when) it's not getting it repaired but it's going in the trash and getting replaced by a more reliable and cheaper saw.

Pete the only possible cause in your situation, if the saw is plugged into a dedicated 15 amp socket, is a bad saw. Personally I would never own a 120V Kapex. The price alone is severly out to lunch. The reason you don't hear about failures from other makes is that they typically aren't run through an autostart DC like a lot of Kapex owners try to do. I believe the only way this saw should be sold in NA, to restore faith, would be to offer a 7 year motor/electronics warranty, most issues seem to occur after the 3 year warranty. It wouldn't cost them anything, there are enough people that would buy the saws that are oblivious to the problem. Unfortunately the marketing department doesn't have the brainpower to come up with this simple solution.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 516
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2018, 09:25 AM »
I just read somewhere that if the Kapex, or any other tool for that matter, is not able to draw enough amps, that you do run the risk of motor burn out over a period of time. So this got me thinking and decided to some reading.
 The Kapex manual, US version, says that the Kapex draws 13A ( 1600 W ) of power and the US manual for the CT26/36 says that the total connected load is 12A ( 1440W). I'm not an electrician but something smells fishy here. Kapex wants 13A but is only getting 12A. Can someone please explain this? My understanding of this is that the Kapex should not be connected to the CT26/36 and should be on it's own outlet, thus eliminating the Auto start function.


Cheers,
JC

Wondering why FestoolUSA produced that video if it is not recommended to use the vac outlet to power the saw.


You can clearly see (1:48) on the video that they plugged the Kapex into the CT outlet. That video was on FestoolUSA youtube channel March 19, 2018

Personally before buying any Festool tools I always watch the "Getting started" video from festoolUSA. I watch the videos to get an overview of the tool capability and how integrated it is with THE system. That video and several other videos have in some degree convinced me to buy their product.

Mario
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 09:41 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline alice

  • Posts: 74
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2018, 11:15 AM »
To reduce the risk of fire only connect tools rated at 3.7 amps ? Confused! Kapex 13 amps.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #77 on: March 20, 2018, 11:47 AM »
To reduce the risk of fire only connect tools rated at 3.7 amps ? Confused! Kapex 13 amps.
Interesting isn't it. If you take a look at the Rotex RO 125 it is rated at 500 watts. Using North American voltage numbers of 110V/120V this translates to 4.54 A and 4.16 A respectively. So, according to the warning sticker on the Kapex, it is not safe to use the Rotex 125. Now if you use the European voltage numbers of 220/240 you get 2.27A and 2.08 A respectively. Therefore 100% safe.
It would be interesting to go through the Festool line up for the North American models that use 110/120V and see which ones would be unsafe to use as per their, Festool's, admission on the warning sticker.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4826
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #78 on: March 20, 2018, 12:42 PM »

It would be interesting to go through the Festool line up for the North American models that use 110/120V and see which ones would be unsafe to use as per their, Festool's, admission on the warning sticker.


Anything that uses more than 444 watts...that's pretty much everything other than a few sanders, the Carvex and a Vecturo.

Offline copcarcollector

  • Posts: 1429
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #79 on: March 20, 2018, 05:54 PM »
I have used the Kapex hooked directly into a CT26, multiple times, at Festool training in Henderson NV. Never an issue with power draw.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2018, 06:15 PM »
I have used the Kapex hooked directly into a CT26, multiple times, at Festool training in Henderson NV. Never an issue with power draw.

With the ct drawing an average of 8.3A, it is not possible to draw the recommended amperage from a 15A circuit. 15A minus 8.3A only leaves about 7A for the Kapex. Low current and high current  will eventually destroy a motor. On a 240 Iine you get very lose to a total of 15A. I agree the saw will work with less current, but not ideal.

Offline Ripit

  • Posts: 17
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2018, 06:23 PM »
I have used the Kapex hooked directly into a CT26, multiple times, at Festool training in Henderson NV. Never an issue with power draw.

With the ct drawing an average of 8.3A, it is not possible to draw the recommended amperage from a 15A circuit. 15A minus 8.3A only leaves about 7A for the Kapex. Low current and high current  will eventually destroy a motor. On a 240 Iine you get very lose to a total of 15A. I agree the saw will work with less current, but not ideal.

Where are you getting the average 8.3 from? You measured it? What does the CT draw under full load (that would be the rating in the manual of course) i think the kapex is like 13.3A full load at the spindle.

Offline Ripit

  • Posts: 17
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #82 on: March 20, 2018, 06:23 PM »
Not sure why everyone is so fixated on the Kapex being hooked up to the extractor is what is causing the motor failures, the 3.7A rating is on the extractor isn't it? The risk of fire comes from drawing to much power through the conductors of the extractor not the saw, are the extractors going up in smoke as well?

Humm, I work in an engineering elec lab I may just have to do some testing...

Does anyone have an idea of how many unique individuals on FOG have had motor failures?
Does anyone know about the year that the motor failures started? How about how many kapex saws have been sold since that time?

Not trying to deny or confirm just curious...

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2018, 06:36 PM »


Does anyone know about the year that the motor failures started? How about how many kapex saws have been sold since that time?

Not trying to deny or confirm just curious...

Only Festool has such information. No one else does.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 06:39 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3471
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #84 on: March 20, 2018, 07:26 PM »
Not sure why everyone is so fixated on the Kapex being hooked up to the extractor is what is causing the motor failures, the 3.7A rating is on the extractor isn't it? The risk of fire comes from drawing to much power through the conductors of the extractor not the saw, are the extractors going up in smoke as well?

Humm, I work in an engineering elec lab I may just have to do some testing...

Does anyone have an idea of how many unique individuals on FOG have had motor failures?
Does anyone know about the year that the motor failures started? How about how many kapex saws have been sold since that time?

Not trying to deny or confirm just curious...

Thanks for weighing in. Getting tired of reading the nonsense that the tools shouldn’t be plugged into the CT.

A significant “risk of fire” isn’t going to occur unless you keep everything running continuously for hours if not days on end. There have been very few reports of CTs burning up.

Whatever the specs on the vac the tool will pull all the amps it needs to run intermittently, which is how we use the things. If you run continuously wire gauge and voltage drop can become an issue.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 218
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2018, 09:57 PM »
The speculation about Kapex failures is all there is given the lack of any insight, information, context or advice on this issue from Festool.  The only people who have any facts on this issue are apparently dumbstruck and the silence is deafening to us Kapex owners!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4826
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2018, 11:09 PM »
Getting tired of reading the nonsense that the tools shouldn’t be plugged into the CT.

A significant “risk of fire” isn’t going to occur unless you keep everything running continuously for hours if not days on end. There have been very few reports of CTs burning up.

I agree with you Michael, however we shouldn’t be debating this issue amongst ourselves, this is a Festool corporate issue and they need to be the final arbiter.

Unfortunately they are apparently brain dead as they will not weigh in on anything controversial including updating the legalize of their own products. Really..............444 Watts, that’s the available current draw...that’s stupid, Festool clear the air, make a statement and stand by it.

As the Kapex issues pile up and these other wacky Festool corporate statements continue unabated, the earnest customer conversations and concerns become just noise in the background while Festool plods forward carrying their made in America banner and mouthing their “Festool part of a puzzle” mantra.

Oh and I almost forgot...Festool says “we have an imperial version of whatever tool you need, they’re labeled in imperial but unfortunately they’re only in metric increments”, now that’s really helpful.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 11:30 PM by Cheese »

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 516
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2018, 07:29 AM »
I understand that there is several reasons a motor will can be damaged during a normal use.

Things I try to keep in mind regarding the Kapex;
- Keep it clean (remove any dust around the motor casing),
- Run it at least once a week for a few seconds during idle periods (have a board in your shop with schedule maintenance),
- Always hold lumber tight against the back fence to prevent kick back and bearing damage,
- Use a dedicated outlet when possible (make sure you don't have a comp, fridge etc.. on the same circuit),
- What else? oh yeah play some music in the shop, tools love music and it also help to mitigate the grinding noise from the saw :P

This is my home work list to keep my power tools healthy and last longer.

Now on @Festool USA

Side note: The Kapex is one of the only variable speed saw if not the only one. It use a CB to control the speed and load to keep a constant speed. Why the electronics from the CB do NOT prevent/preserve the saw motor from damage when the source is over or under requirements?
Mario

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2018, 07:40 AM »

- What else? oh yeah play some music in the shop, tools love music and it also help to mitigate the grinding noise from the saw :P

This works even when you are in the hand tools only mode ;D.

Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 128
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2018, 09:54 AM »
I love my Festool tools. Having said that... I’m not a Festool “purist”.
I’ve noticed more and more QA problems with Festool the last few years -
As evidenced by we buyers/users of them -
Detailing more and more problems on the FOG.
I really wanted to buy the Kapex. But... Given of all its problems...
I glad to still be using my Bosch 5412L Compound Miter Saw.
I’ve had it hooked up (“auto” on) to my - Industrial Steel Deluxe Cyclone (all metal) Dust Deputy and Festool CT33 DC - For YEARS.
It’s accurate to less than a tenth of a degree (good enough for me)...
And cuts “like butter” - All day long.
Cost: Around $600 when I bought it.

Sometimes... Festool - At 2X’s or 3X’s the cost...
Just doesn’t add any value. And, it seems to be happening -
Sadly - More and more.
Joe
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 09:59 AM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #90 on: March 21, 2018, 01:43 PM »
Well heard from my dealer that he had received a quote from Festool Service in Canada. I called Festool Service and they would not discuss the quote with me as everything goes through a dealer. So off I went for a visit. I did find out that dealers do typically add 10-15% markup on the cost of the repair as they are charged by Festool which is then marked up and sold to us end users.

I was told that the motor had burned out and was replaced at no cost as the motor is under warranty for 5 years, at least here in Canada, from date of purchase and they rest of the saw is under the 3 year program. Two additional items needed to be repaired.

1) The bushing at the end of the saw blade that controls the ease of plunging and lifting the saw needed to be replaced.
2) The shaft that the blades sits on also needed to be replaced due to leakage of lubricant.

and thirdly, as the 2 above mentioned items are not covered by warranty there is a shipping cost fpr the whole saw.

So how much is all this? My total bill will be $500.00 CAD, plus taxes. Since it cost $175.00 to ship it there, $100.00 to ship it back, that leaves $225 for parts and labour. The dealer decided to not mark it up and gave me a bit of a discount on the shipping.

All and all not to bad. If my motor was not under warranty, this would have been $1000.00 repair bill at which time I would have told Festool to keep the saw for spare parts and I would have bought a different brand name that I know would last longer then 4 years. By the way, the new motor is warrantied for only 6 months.

Should get it back next week sometime.

Cheers,
JC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #91 on: March 21, 2018, 01:54 PM »
Thanks for sharing the details. Interesting that the shipping costs vary for the same route.

The biggest take for me is the 5-year warranty for Canadian owners. I agree, if the repair bill amounted to $1,000 or anything close, there is no way the repair could be justified financially.

The big question is could the same repair still be justified for a second time if it happens again a few years later?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 01:58 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 801
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2018, 01:54 PM »
That still seems expensive, especially because you could basically buy another brand saw for what you paid in repairs and shipping. The difference in shipping seems a bit odd as well.

I hope that you are satisfied and your saw and that it works for years to come.

I’m personally a bit worried about your 2nd item because my saw leaks from, what appears to be, that same spot.
Daniel

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2018, 02:12 PM »
Thanks for sharing the details. Interesting that the shipping costs vary for the same route.

The biggest take for me is the 5-year warranty for Canadian owners. I agree, if the repair bill amounted to $1,000 or anything close, there is no way the repair could be justified financially.

The big question is could the same repair still be justified for a second time if it happens again a few years later?

Festool Canada probably as a national contract with the courier company to handle all of their shipping. Thus reduced pricing.

As for this happening again, If I'm withing the warranty time frame, I will send it in, but if out of warranty, greater then 5 years old, it will be sent to the metal recycling depot and trashed. I will then change brands. Until then fingers are crossed.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2018, 02:13 PM »
That still seems expensive, especially because you could basically buy another brand saw for what you paid in repairs and shipping. The difference in shipping seems a bit odd as well.

I hope that you are satisfied and your saw and that it works for years to come.

I’m personally a bit worried about your 2nd item because my saw leaks from, what appears to be, that same spot.
It is leaking and still under warranty, send it in. My TS55 tracksaw has not been used for at least 6 months and it is leaking also and is out of warranty.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Harvey

  • Posts: 135
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #95 on: March 21, 2018, 03:52 PM »
If I were you I would sell it, recoup some of your investment and replace it with another brand. (Yes, I own a  Kapex, but I'm a hobby user, and don't depend on my tools to earn a living).
Just a duffer

Offline Ted Miller

  • Posts: 234
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2018, 05:11 PM »
Ok was just in the shop and ran amp draw at the outlet on the CT-26 and the Kapex:

Kapex Plugged in CT-26, running no load around 16.5 amps, load cross cutting 1"x4" 3/4" Miratec, 19 amps.

CT-26 running alone around 8 amps.

Kapex plugged directly into outlet, no load about 8 amps, load cutting same as above around 11 amps.

Lock rotor on both above 20 amps of course but was not measuring at panel. Outlet was putting out 119.5 volts. About 125' run from panel, #12 wire, 20 amp breaker.

Now one thing I did notice, Kapex plugged directly into outlet, came up to speed instantly. To tell you the truth never paid attention to that before as most of the time, about 95% of the time Kapex is running off one of my vacs.

Had the Kapex since it hit US, I think 2010. Depending on the build, it can be running all day, some days handfuls of cuts.

My Kapex had a few issues, the scrapping issue and oil leak, I fix them both.

Now seeing how fast it came up to power, I will for sure run Kapex direct to outlet...



Miller's Wood Works

Offline Ripit

  • Posts: 17
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2018, 09:22 PM »
I had an atf65e track saw bought prolly in 2004ish just sold it for $265 and replaced it with a ts55. Paid $300 new now i am wondering if I made a mistake, the ts55 doesn’t come close to the build quality of the atf55e - the ts75 os a bit closer in quality. I never had any oil leaking frm the atf65 and I bet it sat for at least 1 year or more multiple times since I owned it, rehabed 3 houses with it... heck I didn’t even know their was oil in these saws until I signed up on FOG a few weeks ago.

Was FOG around in 2004? All I remember is everyone thought I was nuts for spending so much on a “circular saw”...

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 867
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #98 on: March 24, 2018, 08:24 AM »
Well, after 8 days I got my Kapex back. I have to say thank you to Festool Canada Service for a very quick turn around. The saw is like new. Even my lasers were adjusted. Very happy with the service I received.

So, I decided to install an another dedicated 15A circuit so I now have 2 circuits available for the CT26 and the Kapex. I purchased an iVac Switch and plugged it into the two 15A circuits. The Kapex has one circuit and the CT 26 has the other. The switch works great. When you turn the saw on the CT26 turns on and when you turn off the saw, the CT26 runs for another 5 seconds to to clear out the hose. I did notice that the saw now runs faster and louder. It seems to be more aggressive. The CT26 also sucks better. It must be due to the added current they are both receiving. They are no longer starving for power.

My recommendation to everyone in the 120V world, use 2 seperate circuits and get yourself an iVac, or similar, switch.

One last thing. With the saw being away, I realized just how much you can't do in the shop.

Cheers,
JC

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 594
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #99 on: March 24, 2018, 09:47 AM »
 Kapex: "Home sweet home!"

May I add that if one plans to use any extension cord with the set-up you recommend, they should go with a 15amp cord under 25 ft. (I can't find any 20amp extension cord for that matter. I will be making one (10 ft long) for myself.)


Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 516
Re: Kapex just died
« Reply #100 on: March 24, 2018, 10:33 AM »
Kapex: "Home sweet home!"

May I add that if one plans to use any extension cord with the set-up you recommend, they should go with a 15amp cord under 25 ft. (I can't find any 20amp extension cord for that matter. I will be making one (10 ft long) for myself.)

@ChuckM

You can get the LV one 12ga 15' 15A That's all you need. To get a 20A you will have to put it together using different sockets.



From the pixture, if you look above the CT you will find a 20A 220v outlet and below a splitted 15a 110v. All my 110v receptacles are splitted (24).

P.S. Adding the iVac makes the CT run longer to clear debris. I believe the iVac runs 8 seconds after you turn off the power tool.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 10:43 AM by Mario Turcot »
Mario