L2theP
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Location: elizabeth NJ Member Since: Apr 2009
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« on: February 19, 2010, 01:23 AM » |
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i have had my kapex for a few months and yesterday noticed something very annoying about it; i was cutting 7" walnut base moulding flat on the table, when saw was set to 45degrees on the bevel adjustment and while cutting off the end of the base to get a 45 degree cut the cut-off would get pushed under the blade by the clear plastic guard which would result in the piece flying like a bullet, the worst part was that i had the saw set up in front of a window and the piece nearly shattered it. that has resulted in the little plastic strips attached to the miter table to shatter and the only way i could avoid bullets flying was to leave at least 3" of a cut-off so that it would rest on the other side of the fence. Another thing that bothers me is the guard not always closing properly and the saw not returning up at times. Other then that the saw in it's self is amazing!!!!!
Quick question, is there a specific side for crown stops? because i got two of them and it almost looks like i have 2 left or 2 right stops. and would that affect the extension mounting if i ever decide to get them
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PaulMarcel
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Location: Chandler AZ USA Member Since: Mar 2008
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 01:58 AM » |
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Hmm, small chunks will fly regardless the saw, I'd imagine (I have a Makita and unless I start doing this for a living, can't justify the upgrade to a Kapex).
When I did a lot of molding in my house last year, there was always the threat of a projectile so I took a scrap board a hair thicker than my molding and glued a scrap on top that stuck out 2-3 inches. When cutting a potential projectile, I'd put the board such that the shelf that sticks out is overtop the off-cut and would simply drop the vice clamp on it. That was more than enough to capture the piece. Couple scraps and some cyano- glue and you can make them up as you chew them up with different cuts (I ended up with 3: 90?, left 45? and right 45?; the angled ones work on several other angles). I used glue since I didn't want to risk hitting a screw and create a worse scenario!
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L2theP
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Location: elizabeth NJ Member Since: Apr 2009
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 02:39 AM » |
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i do agree that you will have projectiles, it's inevitable but this was happening every single time i made that specific cut, and while you can make a zero clearance fence and do so many other things i have had two dewalt saws, a bosch, a ridgid and a hitachi and the kapex is so far been the only one with such persistent results. The kapex is a great saw without a doubt but it seems like a lot of people are having issues with the guard malfunctioning. and to be clear while watching the cut carefully i saw the guard push the cut-off right into the blades path and BAM!!!! it snapped both of my plastic guards on the miter table, festool should come out with a zero clearance insert for the Kapex and maybe re-construct the guard slightly as a lot of people are having problems with it not coming back down completely and the head of the saw not going all the way back up at times , a stronger spring and little extending tabs on the plastic guard that will hold the guard in place once cut is complete. I'm just stating my problem to see if anyone else has experienced this issue.
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proud owner of FESTOOL TS55 saw, ROTEX RO125 FEQ sander, OF 1400 router, Trion PS 300 EQ jigsaw, DOMINO DF 500 Q SET, CT22, ETS 125, MFT/3, EHL65-plus planer, Kapex miter saw, T15-3 set along with a load of overpriced accessories!!
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woodshopdemos
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 02:55 AM » |
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Are you letting the saw come to a complete stop before rasing it? You can also put a piece of wood on the fence so you will have a zero clearance fence ... and no kickback or projectile functioning
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PaulMarcel
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 03:52 AM » |
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Oh sorry I didn't catch the part that the guard itself was doing the pushing. I just assumed it was the usual small cutoff projectile problem. Yeah, that would suck. My Makita doesn't do that; the guard is moved away from the material when lowering the blade and the material can push it up further if it is thick. But you knew that. 
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 06:07 AM » |
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For those of you who haven't looked at the Gary Katz article that was mentioned in an earlier recent thread, you might want to click on this link Watch Gary Katz use the Kapex. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the you tube movie. Gary is not performing the same cut mentioned previously, but maybe you can garner some ideas from his movie. Gary shows his saw with an auxilary fence. About 5:30 into the movie you will see him cutting small pieces of crown that could become projectiles. If you watch and listen closely you will notice that on some cuts the blade is already slowing down at the end of the cut because he has released the trigger. He has pulled that trigger thousand or tens of thousands of times and has learned what works best for him with that saw. Also look at the design of his fence and see how he made that to accommidate his saw and the way that he cuts. Making an auxilary fence or a couple of different types is not unusual. Woodworkers and carpenters build jigs all the time to adapt their method of work and their tools on hand to the task on hand, just as John and others mentioned previously. Look at all the great ones posted here.  That being said, any time you you are making a bevel cut there is a greater risk of the blade catching one side of the cut and moving the piece. Especially if the piece on one side is small. I don't have the Kapex. I have had Makitas and Hitachis since I began. Projectiles happen. Cutting returns for trim is a perfect example. The kapex is a great saw without a doubt but it seems like a lot of people are having issues with the guard malfunctioning festool should come out with a zero clearance insert for the Kapex and maybe re-construct the guard slightly as a lot of people are having problems with it not coming back down completely and the head of the saw not going all the way back up at times , a stronger spring and little extending tabs on the plastic guard that will hold the guard in place once cut is complete. Blade guards have to be a pain in the rump to design. When works great for one size or type of wood moulding or stock may not work well for another. There have been some posts here about issues that people have had with a rivet or a spring, but I can't remembers seeing even a dozen. Even if there were to have been 50, would that be an accurate measure based on the total number of tools produced? The active posters here are just a tiny piece of the Festool user population. Every cutting situation is different, just everyone's skill level is different, the materials being used are different, the condition of the blades are different, etc. That is why manufacturers have to make their openings larger. Why their guards have to be designed to work with a variety of situations. They need to build in such a manner as to allow for flexibility so that they can sell their tools. Sometimes to get a job done with the tools you got you have to go to the tool box and get the magic tool - creativity. But creativity is not meant to mean disabling the safety functions and systems built into the tool. Sorry for the long post. Peter Peter
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Rey Johnson
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA Member Since: Aug 2007
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 08:14 AM » |
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Zero clearance inserts and fence faces really made a difference for me. I have made them of MDF and I consider them consumables that get replaced every so often.   Regards Rey
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 08:22 AM » |
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Rey, Every time I see photos of your setup I drool with envy. If you keep showing them I'll have to start using a waterproof keyboard  Peter
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William Herrold
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 09:02 AM » |
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Nice Incra collection on the wall there.
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Michael Kellough
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 10:33 AM » |
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Nicely done Rey! The auxiliary fence will take care of most of the problem with small offcuts. Another thing you can do is place a vacuum hose (vacuum running of course) close to the end of the stick getting cut and the vacuum will pull the piece away from the blade as it is severed.
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Rey Johnson
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA Member Since: Aug 2007
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Fine Sawdust Maker
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 01:16 PM » |
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Thanks Peter and Michael. One thing with the closed fence though. The dust collection of the Kapex is somewhat reduced when the fence faces are closed...but no shooting projectiles. Nice Incra collection on the wall there.
I absolutely love the Incra measuring tools. That is also Incra's lexan scale on the Kapex fence. Rey
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WarnerConstCo.
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2010, 03:26 PM » |
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All saws like flinging small bits. I cut a lot of crown, base and casing returns. The best method I have found for greatly reducing flying bits of wood is: Let the saw blade come to a stop before lifting the head up.
I get maybe one of ten that will go squirting out.
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L2theP
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Location: elizabeth NJ Member Since: Apr 2009
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2010, 10:09 PM » |
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thanx Peter, and Rey your set up is sweet, i will duplicate your fence and insert as soon as i get a free moment.
Here is the unit i was trimming out, and the base that kept wanting to fly.
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proud owner of FESTOOL TS55 saw, ROTEX RO125 FEQ sander, OF 1400 router, Trion PS 300 EQ jigsaw, DOMINO DF 500 Q SET, CT22, ETS 125, MFT/3, EHL65-plus planer, Kapex miter saw, T15-3 set along with a load of overpriced accessories!!
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jonny round boy
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 12:57 PM » |
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Inspired by Rey's post above, I was 'pottering' in my workshop earlier & decided to make a new insert & zero clearance fence for my Kapex. The insert is just a piece of 6mm MDF. I added packers (pieces of 0.7mm laminate) to the pads to bring the insert up to the correct height. Here it is before I cut into it:  I was about to start on the fence, when I discovered to my horror that on the left-hand side of the fence, the top section had welded itself to the main casting  . I know this was a problem on some early models, but thought I'd escaped it - obviously not. TBH it's probably over 12 months since I last moved that fence section. Luckily I've had the saw about 2 1/2 years, so at least it's still in warranty...
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TS55EBQ saw - CTL Mini dust extractor - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - DTS400 Sander - DF500 Domino
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Rey Johnson
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 05:29 PM » |
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jonny round boy, nice! This small thing made such an improvement for me. I was about to start on the fence, when I discovered to my horror that on the left-hand side of the fence, the top section had welded itself to the main casting  . Is this something that some WD40 might help with? L2theP, I believe that the setup will help your setup alot.
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jonny round boy
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2010, 02:52 PM » |
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I e-mailed Festool UK about the fence on Saturday. I explained that I didn't want to send the whole saw back, but that I was happy to fit a new fence myself if they were happy to send one.
Got an e-mail back first thing this morning, saying that a new fence will be delivered here tomorrow.
Another plus for Festool UK's customer service!
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Festoolian since February 2006
TS55EBQ saw - CTL Mini dust extractor - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - DTS400 Sander - DF500 Domino
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woodguy7
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2010, 06:55 PM » |
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Hmm, my Rotex is still away. must be about 2 weeks now  I miss that sander. Woodguy
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Gary Katz
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« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 04:17 PM » |
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Hey! I've had that same problem with small pieces flying out the back of the saw. It's really bad when you're cutting at a show and there are people walking behind the saw, or as one of you mentioned, setting your saw up in front of a window! I've learned over the years to ALWAYS let the saw come to a COMPLETE stop before allowing it to move even a fraction of an inch. Yes, sometimes the 'wind' from the blade will draw the small piece in at the back of the blade and fire it off, but if you keep the blade down in the throat guard, and you don't let it move, the piece should stay right where it is. Unless of course it's such a small piece that the slightest breeze blows it toward the blade. I have that problem with some saws when I cut bead molding for classical head casing--you know, the stuff a lot of folks call 'parting bead' (though I learned a few years ago it's really an architrave bead!). That material is so small that when you cut off the little self return caps, they fly all over the place. I use a zero-clearance fixture for cutting that material. But for anything larger than 3 in., the self-returns and small cutoffs are usually safely cut as long as you don't let that blade move at ALL.
I hope that helps! Gary
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RossM
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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 10:45 PM » |
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With respect to the blade guard retracting problem, this does NOT seem to be taken seriously enough by Festool. See this http://www.woodworkforums.com/f58/dangerous-kapex-112311/ for some more information. Note also the censorship of the post that was attempted in this forum to alert people of the issues. What is worrying is that FOG seems to be becoming what many were concerned about when the "coup" by Fetool USA lawyers took place. While still a valuable resource, there is less independence than I would like; & a definite push toward marketing spin. Shame. It was great when it was a site with out "fear or favour". Great companies embrace robust discussion & are adult about criticism. Over-eager marketing wanks trying to "control the message" just angers customers. Hope Festool is not becoming another Toyota.
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Brice Burrell
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Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 11:26 PM » |
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Ross, I think you are misinformed. The post wasn't remove to cover up the problem the member had with his blade guard but because the post mentioned a modification to the guard. Any modification to safety device can to potentially dangerous and that is why the post was temporally removed. The thread was reposted with the parts about modifying the guard removed.
The blade guard issue has been address on this site several times so there is no cover up going on here. In fact you'll notice I posted links to this site in the Woodwork forum thread you linked in your post, see the first reply in that thread. While I respect your position you're way off base with your assumptions.
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Dan Rush
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Location: Chicago, Il. USA Member Since: Feb 2008
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Trim carpenter
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« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2010, 08:45 PM » |
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I've been making and using 6mm zero clearance inserts like Jonny's and others above, but with one difference.
I cut both nested crown and flat stock everyday, requiring me to switch from angle cutting to bevel cuts constantly. When a zero clearance plate is installed, it works great until the bevel feature is used on the saw. Then the zero plate is no longer a zero plate!! So I like to switch plates as needed.
I have been using double sided foam tape to attach the plates for about a year now, no ill effects. But much quicker to change out without having to unscrew and screw in the attaching screws. Also, the tape acts to bring the plate up to the same level as the saws table.
Dan
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2010, 08:52 PM » |
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Dan,
You've been using your Kapex for over a year. Its not the only saw you've ever had, I assume. Do you find that it is more or less or equal in its likelihood to shoot a piece of scrap across the room?
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Dan Rush
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Trim carpenter
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« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2010, 09:21 PM » |
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Peter,
You are correct, I've owned a number ( and still do) of saws. All good quality. Makita, Hatachi, even the Dewalt wasn't bad.
I don't think that any saw is more likely to shoot small projectiles over another. Almost everytime I experience a missile flying across a room, I have that short "pucker" moment that I knew someting wasn't right, BEFORE I START THE CUT!!!
I believe that 95% of the time, small cut-offs that go flying are an operator problem, not a tool defect. That's why I use a Chop Shop hood, even with my Kapex. I'm an operator, and I have problems!! Seriously, I learned this hard lesson when I shot a piece of very expensive 1/4 sawn oak through an even more expensive Frank Lloyd Wright window. Worked for free a week or so to pay that off.
Dan
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2010, 09:25 PM » |
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Dan,
OUCH!
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WarnerConstCo.
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« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2010, 10:58 PM » |
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Whoops!!
My old Bosch, Makita and the old 8 1/2" hitatchi would fling them just as much as my kapex will.
Dan is right, it is usually user error that leads to most projectiles.
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harry_
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Location: Troy, NH Member Since: Nov 2009
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2010, 03:12 PM » |
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I'm an operator, and I have problems!! Dan Dan, I have them too,.. but I like to call them "issues"  Worked for free a week or so to pay that off. Yeah, hate that one. I never set up in front of a window... EVER. I do however set up next to them all the time so that I can slide long stock out of it. Then there was this time that the customer happened past that open window..... well, you can see where this is going. I was fortunate enough to stop the already sliding piece of stock about an inch before running it out the glass. Since that time, I now when possible, completely remove the sash. Returning to the topic at hand: When it comes to cutting self returns on small stock, I like to keep this phrase in mind.... "slow down, you'll get done faster".
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Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).
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matt the teacher
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« Reply #26 on: April 8, 2010, 01:12 PM » |
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In my classroom I have 2 Kapex saws. The students make sure the blade comes to a complete stop before bringing it up. That seems to work most of the time. However, recently I've found that slowing the blade speed down to 3 seems to help too. It makes it less likely that the wind from the blade will pick up small pieces.
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