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Author Topic: Mft squaring problems  (Read 5194 times)

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Offline mwbrewster

  • Posts: 22
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2018, 08:40 PM »

Do you use a square to ensure that the rail is square to the fence?

Both are squared/aligned to the hole pattern. I align the rail first, then the fence.  After everything is locked down, I verify that theyre square to each other with a the woodpecker 1281.  This is only a final check.  If ive aligned he rail and fence to the holes properly, they will automatically be square to each other. 

Theoretically

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Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4640
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2018, 12:28 AM »
There can only be a few things that could cause you work not being squared.
1) You piece isn't square
2) fence isnt square
3) rail isnt square

Sometime that little back plastic thing that tightens down the fence will move on ya when ya tighten it. But if you check with a square regularly
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2009
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2018, 09:47 AM »
I’ve read this thread several times and I’m still puzzled. I’ve only had to square the MFT track twice over many years. I squared it when I first bought the MFT and again when a bolt came loose at the pivot hinge for the track. I’ve never used the protractor. My cuts on the MFT have all been 90 degree cuts made using Qwas dogs aligning the top of the board square to the track. I do use a SlopStop and I always check track square to the dogs using a Woodpecker framing square. I do adjust track height. I’m puzzled as to why my track stays square and others have so many problems.
Birdhunter

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1744
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2018, 01:22 PM »
I’ve read this thread several times and I’m still puzzled. I’ve only had to square the MFT track twice over many years. I squared it when I first bought the MFT and again when a bolt came loose at the pivot hinge for the track. I’ve never used the protractor. My cuts on the MFT have all been 90 degree cuts made using Qwas dogs aligning the top of the board square to the track. I do use a SlopStop and I always check track square to the dogs using a Woodpecker framing square. I do adjust track height. I’m puzzled as to why my track stays square and others have so many problems.

Me too. I agree with you. I do check squareness before I make crosscuts to final size for any project I am working on, but rarely find any out of squareness I can detect. When I do re-square, I use the method that Festool instructors recommend in class. It's fast, easy, and foolproof. Of course, I don't move my MFT from its spot in my shop so there are no good reasons for it to be out of square unless I take the fence off for some other types of work.
Randy

Offline JoshMandell

  • Posts: 1
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2018, 03:07 PM »
One word of caution about the Anderson Plywood triangle... I just bought an MFT/3, and while waiting on delivery read lots of FOG posts about squaring, setup, etc. and decided to pick up the Anderson Plywood triangle. When it arrived, I checked it for squareness with my Incra 7" square and was surprised to find one leg of the triangle was not perfectly flat. The last 4-5" of one edge, closest to the 90 degree corner, dips in around 1/32". It looks like the workpiece may have shifted slightly on the CNC during the final pass.

To be clear, it appears to be square when checked with a long enough square that bridges the gap, but it makes it hard to use on the MFT since it doesn't register fully against the guide rail along the entire length. I'm thinking of squaring everything up, then trimming it with the TS55 to put a straight edge on that side.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1744
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2018, 12:06 AM »
One word of caution about the Anderson Plywood triangle... I just bought an MFT/3, and while waiting on delivery read lots of FOG posts about squaring, setup, etc. and decided to pick up the Anderson Plywood triangle. When it arrived, I checked it for squareness with my Incra 7" square and was surprised to find one leg of the triangle was not perfectly flat. The last 4-5" of one edge, closest to the 90 degree corner, dips in around 1/32". It looks like the workpiece may have shifted slightly on the CNC during the final pass.

To be clear, it appears to be square when checked with a long enough square that bridges the gap, but it makes it hard to use on the MFT since it doesn't register fully against the guide rail along the entire length. I'm thinking of squaring everything up, then trimming it with the TS55 to put a straight edge on that side.

Return it. I'm sure they will stand behind it if it isn't perfect. The flaw you describe isn't indicated by the feedback on this forum.
Randy

Offline Rudymejia12

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2018, 12:45 AM »
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I have been playing around with my mft. I have learned the reason I loose squareness is because the rail holders some how become loose. What I did is make sure everything is tight. I use my 1281 to make sure I am square. Then I moved the rail up and down a few times. I then check square and I have some play on the inside of the woodpecker square. I then checked the rail holders and noticed the knob that tightens the rail down has play and isn’t as tight as I tighten before. Not sure what to do from here. I have a slop stop  can someone tell me how to install it. Maybe I did something wrong.

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5399
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2018, 01:00 AM »
The rail coming loose, I'm not sure. The knobs your referring to are the ones that hold the supports to the channel? Do both come loose? Are you tightening the knobs rail up or down? If it is just the rear one that comes loose, move the rail forward slightly.

The Slop Stop, remove the rail end protector, slide the stop in aligning with tab on support. Tighten set screws.

Tom

Offline Rudymejia12

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2018, 01:47 AM »
Yea just making sure I put the slop stop in correct. the brackets that hold the rails. The knob on those brackets which tighten it to the mft. They become a loose after I move the rail up and down.  It isn’t very loose just a tad enough to loose square

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5399
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2018, 09:32 AM »
Yea just making sure I put the slop stop in correct. the brackets that hold the rails. The knob on those brackets which tighten it to the mft. They become a loose after I move the rail up and down.  It isn’t very loose just a tad enough to loose square

Snug the set screws would be a better description. You don't want to strip the plastic.

Are you tightening the knobs with the support handle locked?

Tom

Offline Rudymejia12

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2018, 11:53 AM »
I tighten when I first install them. Then I install everything else, next I square everything with 1281. Now I move the rail brackets up and down. Then check for square and plastic knob or screw has play in it again. Not much just a little. So I tighten again and I believe while handle is tight.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4640
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2018, 01:10 PM »
One word of caution about the Anderson Plywood triangle... I just bought an MFT/3, and while waiting on delivery read lots of FOG posts about squaring, setup, etc. and decided to pick up the Anderson Plywood triangle. When it arrived, I checked it for squareness with my Incra 7" square and was surprised to find one leg of the triangle was not perfectly flat. The last 4-5" of one edge, closest to the 90 degree corner, dips in around 1/32". It looks like the workpiece may have shifted slightly on the CNC during the final pass.

To be clear, it appears to be square when checked with a long enough square that bridges the gap, but it makes it hard to use on the MFT since it doesn't register fully against the guide rail along the entire length. I'm thinking of squaring everything up, then trimming it with the TS55 to put a straight edge on that side.

Return it. I'm sure they will stand behind it if it isn't perfect. The flaw you describe isn't indicated by the feedback on this forum.

I have one and have no complaints. My MFT is just as square using the anderson square as it is when I used my woodpecker 45cm square. I noticed no difference. If there is a problem with the one you have give them a call. Theyll make it right.

No I dont work or have any affiliation with them but I have gone out there a couple of times and got to know them
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4640
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2018, 01:40 PM »
Heres my method of setting up my MFT.

Position the fence so its about a half a hole from the end of the MFT where the blade cuts into te MFT.

Attached the guide rail as prescribed in the videos.

I use 2 protractors attached to the fence to the MFT.

Take a known good square (I use both the Anderson square and the Woodpeckers OTT 45 CM square both are equally square IMO)

I alsways square the fence to the guide rail.

Using the 2 protractors ensures a bomb proof set up If I have to move the fence I just turn the knob on the protractors and move the fence, even when I remove the fence as long as the rail or the protractors are not removed.

For sheet goods, My very first cut is to remove the factory edge and use that edge to butt up against the fence.  I make my rip cuts to width say 24". For timber I will joint one edge even if the timber is straight lined rip doesnt mean its jointed properly.

My second cut is to remove the other side (whats left of the 48" side of the sheet good) prior to cutting my sheet goods to size.

Then cross cut to length and check for square by measuring diagonally. Using the side you cut off the factory edge will not be square until you cross cut it.

Use a flipstop to ensure that you will get repeat cuts and also make sure that there isnt any wood dust etc on the table next to the fence any little bit will give you a less than square cut.
I have 10 flips stops bc I want repeatability for everything I cut and use them as a story pole to. The min you should have is 2 flip stops.

What are you useing to rip the sheet goods making tick marks and setting the guide rail on the marks, parallel guides etc? Beacuse if the white plastic tape (I forget te name right now) is worn or uneven it will cause the rip not to be square.  Learned that from Allen K.

Though I dont know and Im guessing, I dont know how far out of square you really are.

Weve had people complain about being a half a mm out.
 But the guide rail is a extrusion. They in themselves are not totally straight even if your using the MFT holes to square it with.

The holes are in perfect alignment but the fence and GR are extrusions.

That is why I set mine up the way I do.

Im not starting a war here on how to set up a MFT. Its all personal preference. What I explained is my preference.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 09:35 PM by jobsworth »
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 437
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2018, 03:49 PM »
There can only be a few things that could cause you work not being squared.
1) You piece isn't square
2) fence isnt square
3) rail isnt square

Sometime that little back plastic thing that tightens down the fence will move on ya when ya tighten it. But if you check with a square regularly

There must be different MFT hardware floating around. 
My fence would bend, no matter what.   My guide rail would be knocked
out of square the second you breath on it.  :)

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4640
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2018, 07:28 PM »
thats why I use 2 angle stops/ protectors it takes lot to move it out of square.

Though I never checked it I can get square cut with the fence I have
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline SS Teach

  • Posts: 272
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2018, 05:28 PM »
Woodpeckers just introduced a new one time tool designed to take care of this problem. It will square your rail to your MFT easy peasy. Just saw the promo 1/9/18. You can check it out at their website.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set. Domino 500, Domino Systainer, Parallel Guide

Offline Rudymejia12

  • Posts: 26
Re: Mft squaring problems
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2018, 07:06 PM »
Two angle stops seems like a good idea if the fence is the problem. But my rail  is the problem. It moves out of square when I go up and down. I do think having to  buy another angle stop sucks just so a already expensive mft can do what it’s is supposed to do.