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Author Topic: More bouncing/jumping sanders  (Read 3646 times)

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Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 114
More bouncing/jumping sanders
« on: December 07, 2016, 03:13 PM »
I purchased a ETS 125 and a ETS 150/3 during the now famous refurb sale a couple of years ago. Both worked fine I just picked them up, plugged them in, connected them to my CT36 and started sanding. They were smooth as silk. High speed, slow speed, vac suction set to ~50% they just worked. They were great sanders.

I had an opportunity to sell those two sanders and I did so I could upgrade. I purchased new EC125/3, EC150/3, and a Pro 5 LTD. All three of these seem to want to jump all over the place. I've tried turning the vac suction all the way down, various speed settings, and while the tendency to "jump" changes I can't make it go away. It is worse at the lowest speed setting, best at the highest speed setting. Tonight I will experiment with different papers, grits and wood types.

I've searched the board and seen the comments to let the sander run for 8-10 hours. That doesn't seem to make sense for the brushless models. I've seen posts for at least one defective Pro 5.

Any suggestions for things for me to try during my test session tonight?  [sad]

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Online Alex

  • Posts: 5478
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 03:35 PM »
You're not going to get 3 defective sanders at once in your hands, those odds are very high. I think you just have to get used to them. Use the heck out of them while you're still in your window of return, and I'm sure that after a few hours of use you will get them to behave as you'd like. If that doesn't work out eventually, than return them while you still can or contact Festool for advice.

While the brushless sanders don't have brushes, they still have a pad break like any other random orbit sander, and those pad breaks can be a bit rough on a new sander. That needs a bit of break in, though that usually happens pretty fast, within the first two hours of use.

A sander generally behaves best when you turn the speed to the max and the suction to its minimum.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 04:06 PM »
I sand all day every day, 7 days a week,  8 hours a day sometimes nothing but orbital sanding.

My sanders work best on full speed(I do occasional change the sander speed), FULL VAC. I have not adjusted the CT suction speed on any wood project in the 8 years I have used them. I keep them on full for my epoxy coated mesh projects as well. I have two brand new CT 48, they stay at full suction and they work great with every Sander I have. I own an older CT 33, it has never been set on anything but full power(other than my initial test period years ago).

Ill never understand the guys that work with wood that say they get better results with lower suction. Isn't perfect , perfect? My vacs are on high power, I get perfect results, no swirls, no scratches just smooth and flat

When I first purchased the variable suction vacs I tested and tested and I either had no difference or better results using full power.  I think  I can search posts I made maybe  7 or 8 years ago where I say the same thing and I haven't changed since then.

I have an ETS 150, EC 150, Rotex 150, RAS 115,  RAS 180 and Pro 5 and I have sold off EVERY other available in America sander Festool has made in the last 8 years, I have owned them all. One thing never changes, I never mess with my full power vac setting.

The older Fein vacs and some of the newer units have one speed, full bore and any one here with those Feins  can tell you they are as good and some ways even better than the Festools CT's. They are not missing the variable suction, for raw wood projects especially. I maintain that variable suction is more for other things than raw wood.

For me the suction NEVER had anything to do with the sanders jumping, it was my my lack of experience with them. I would love someone to bring me a jumping sander because though I think there may be a few that are broken, I believe that for the most part it's the user.

There is zero break in for these sanders, its the user that gets broken in, not the sander.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 04:13 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1728
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2016, 04:12 PM »
I sand all day every day, 7 days a week,  8 hours a day sometimes nothing but orbital sanding.

My sanders work best on full speed(I do occasional change the sander speed), FULL VAC. I have not adjusted the CT suction speed on any wood project in the 8 years I have used them. I keep them on full for my epoxy coated mesh projects as well. I have two brand new CT 48, they stay at full suction and they work great with every Sander I have. I own an older CT 33, it has never been set on anything but full power(other than my initial test period years ago).

Ill never understand the guys that work with wood that say they get better results with lower suction. Isn't perfect , perfect? My vacs are on high power, I get perfect results, no swirls, no scratches just smooth and flat

When I first purchased the variable suction vacs I tested and tested and I either had no difference or better results using full power.  I think  I can search posts I made maybe  7 or 8 years ago where I say the same thing and I haven't changed since then.

I have an ETS 150, EC 150, Rotex 150, RAS 115,  RAS 180 and Pro 5 and I have sold off EVERY other available in America sander Festool has made in the last 8 years, I have owned them all. One thing never changes, I never mess with my full power vac setting.

The older Fein vacs and some of the newer units have one speed, full bore and any one here with those Feins  can tell you they are as good and some ways even better than the Festools CT's. They are not missing the variable suction.

For me the suction NEVER had anything to do with the sanders jumping, it was my my lack of experience with them. I would love someone to being me a jumping sander becasue though I think there may be a few that are broken that for the most part its the user.

There is zero break in for these sanders, its the user that gets broken in, not the sander.

@Dovetail65  Just curious. What are the things you did differently after using the sanders for awhile compared to how you used them to begin that caused the performance to be better with experience?
Randy

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2016, 04:25 PM »
I sand all day every day, 7 days a week,  8 hours a day sometimes nothing but orbital sanding.

My sanders work best on full speed(I do occasional change the sander speed), FULL VAC. I have not adjusted the CT suction speed on any wood project in the 8 years I have used them. I keep them on full for my epoxy coated mesh projects as well. I have two brand new CT 48, they stay at full suction and they work great with every Sander I have. I own an older CT 33, it has never been set on anything but full power(other than my initial test period years ago).

Ill never understand the guys that work with wood that say they get better results with lower suction. Isn't perfect , perfect? My vacs are on high power, I get perfect results, no swirls, no scratches just smooth and flat

When I first purchased the variable suction vacs I tested and tested and I either had no difference or better results using full power.  I think  I can search posts I made maybe  7 or 8 years ago where I say the same thing and I haven't changed since then.

I have an ETS 150, EC 150, Rotex 150, RAS 115,  RAS 180 and Pro 5 and I have sold off EVERY other available in America sander Festool has made in the last 8 years, I have owned them all. One thing never changes, I never mess with my full power vac setting.

The older Fein vacs and some of the newer units have one speed, full bore and any one here with those Feins  can tell you they are as good and some ways even better than the Festools CT's. They are not missing the variable suction.

For me the suction NEVER had anything to do with the sanders jumping, it was my my lack of experience with them. I would love someone to being me a jumping sander becasue though I think there may be a few that are broken that for the most part its the user.

There is zero break in for these sanders, its the user that gets broken in, not the sander.

@Dovetail65  Just curious. What are the things you did differently after using the sanders for awhile compared to how you used them to begin that caused the performance to be better with experience?

That's difficult to quantify.

I can say when I was teaching my daughter to use the sander I told her to stop letting the sander run her and for her to run the sander.

It so much simpler for a person to be here standing next to me, to put into words, well Ill have to think about that. Right now it's second nature for me.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline justaguy

  • Posts: 114
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2016, 04:29 PM »
I don't think I have three defective sanders I assume it's something in my technique. I'm just a bit surprised that the user experience is so different with the newer units.

I'll see what happens later tonight.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Offline Shane Holland

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 10127
    • The Tool Nut's Festool Store
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2016, 04:30 PM »
Because of the way the EC sanders are designed, I could see how the weight of the hose could make them tip-prone. Support the weight of the hose and make sure the pad is staying completely flat on the surface.
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Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1728
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 10:08 PM »
@Dovetail65  Strange because I found that once I stopped trying to do anything with my ETS125 except support the hose, the sander operated like my ETS150/5, which is smooth. I also don't quite get the reason you can sand without turning the CT down. I'd say that all Festool sanders I use must have the suction turned down at  least halfway and, for the most part, I use them all turned down all the way. Dust collection isn't inhibited and they just all work well, my ETS150 without doing anything except keeping the hose and cord away from the sanding surface; no other hands required (although I generally don't let the sander go).
Randy

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 11:40 PM »
@Dovetail65  Strange because I found that once I stopped trying to do anything with my ETS125 except support the hose, the sander operated like my ETS150/5, which is smooth. I also don't quite get the reason you can sand without turning the CT down. I'd say that all Festool sanders I use must have the suction turned down at  least halfway and, for the most part, I use them all turned down all the way. Dust collection isn't inhibited and they just all work well, my ETS150 without doing anything except keeping the hose and cord away from the sanding surface; no other hands required (although I generally don't let the sander go).

What is strange?, the sanders don't run themselves. I have demonstrated exactly what you are saying, look at the video, I show a pro 5 with my hands not even on it and the snader it flowing gently across the surface. BUT once a person that doesn't know how to handle the sander holds it and then it jumps around, why is that? Because they are not running the sander, its running them.

I advise you use that vac 100% , its not going to hurt the wood or  make any difference other than letting you sand faster.

Wood sanding vacs were initially deigned with one speed and many of the best  in the world still are and it high speed.  I maintain the variable speed came in later for other things, to sand finishes and other things, not raw wood.

A far a technique I am not a video guy, anyone can come to my shop though and we can play around.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 11:45 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline jools

  • Posts: 256
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 01:58 AM »
Run all my sanders flat out on full suck no problems.Only time they  jump is if you tip.Always try to set up some form of boom arm bungee cord when in the shop. Run the DTS400 on half suck as it will stick even on ceilings especially on filler
Regards
Jools
It started with one little sander

Offline RickyL

  • Posts: 68
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2016, 05:41 PM »
I have this issue with my Rotrex, but not my ETS.

I think some of it is down to movement in the bench. I tend to adjust my technique to work around it.

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Offline Shopbotter

  • Posts: 2
Re: More bouncing/jumping sanders
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 11:02 PM »
I bought two pro sanders on the same day. The first one jumps erratically, but not all of the time. The second sander is as smooth as silk, just like both of my ets 125s. Obviously something wrong with first unit. I'll be packing it up to have repaired next week. Side note, along with the two pro sanders, I bought the new "permanent" dust bags and it has already separated at the heat welded seam. How would I go about getting a replacement?