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Author Topic: New Dust Extractor Ends  (Read 16868 times)

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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2017, 10:50 AM »
@TylerC - what do the engineers have to say about the "much less secure" connection at the vacuum itself ? [scratch chin]

The system is only as good as it's weakest link, and the connection at the vacuum is not a locking fitting.  A design a lot of other vacuums already have like Bosch, Mafell, Dewalt Metabo and cheapies like Shop Vac and Ridgid even have it.  Why didn't they start there? 

I'll go out on a limb and say that more guys have experienced pulling their CT around the shop or jobsite and pulled the hose out of the vacuum body than have ever dislodged their sander from the end fitting.


This just seems like someone's pet project that met their own need , but doesn't translate into the marketplace.  A bit like Piech's VW Phaeton project.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:19 PM by antss »

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2017, 10:59 AM »

Reference @Cheese comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.


Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank @TylerC for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

Offline jetset95

  • Posts: 21
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2017, 11:03 AM »
Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank @TylerC for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2017, 11:58 AM »

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.


Actually, we've been provided this information early enough that these old 487 071 hose ends are probably still available just about everywhere.

The problem has been in the past, we were only given a heads-up on obsoleted parts months & months after the fact and through just the normal sales of product, the inventory levels were then depleted to very low levels and it became very frustrating, if not impossible to find the obsoleted items. Think...MFS, aluminum saw blades, steel saw blades, spark arrestors, router sled...

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 857
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2017, 12:43 PM »
@TylerC The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 105
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2017, 04:20 PM »
@TylerC The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 

Thanks T. E.. - I knew there was a third objection, but I forgot to include it - my earlier post now updated!

Cheers


Offline magellan

  • Posts: 161
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2017, 07:13 PM »
It was mentioned that the old style is still available.  It is not as far as I have found.  I have been searching for awhile for one.  March 28 th I ordered one from Ace Tool in NY by phone.  I was told it would be shipped out in a few days.  Then I was sent an email that it was on back order    After a few emails and a phone call today i was sent an email stating they discontinued the part and would be sent the new replacement part.  I replied and declined the new part and asked for a refund.   First time using Ace Tools and it was not very good customer service to make me wait a month and I had to contact them to find out I'm still without the old style hose end.   

I personally do not like the new style hose end.   Too stiff for one thing.  Just offer both styles and the all customers are happy. 

If someone finds a cache of old style hose ends please let me know I'd like to buy one

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 310
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2017, 10:14 PM »
Antss, I'v been on that limb many times and end up pushing hard while trying to twist the connector in an attempt to make the connection not come out.  Keeping in mind the ct26 is topped with a work center with tools and is quite heavy,  I've given up trying to move it by pulling the hose. 

Have not handled the new end and thankful to have a few of the old ones on hand after hearing about  the new one.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1001
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2017, 04:33 PM »
Anyone know a way that the new DTS/RTS 400 REQ sanders can be converted to the old style hose connection? I am thinking of picking one of them up and it would be the only Festool tool I own with the new connector and I dont like what I have been reading about it and would prefer all my tools had the same.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4596
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2017, 04:55 PM »
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2017, 05:57 PM »
@Dovetail65 -

the two principle issues are that the new fitting leaks like a sieve when attached to the curved hand tubes from the cleaning sets - and - the fitting captures dust in the bayonet groves which falls all over the place when you remove it.

Guys are also peeved because this supposed "upgrade" solved a problem pretty much no one had around here.  The fitting falling off the tool.   But..................the wonks forgot or purposefully decided not to address the other end of the hose at the vacuum.  It's still not a locking fitting .   [doh]

During all this upgrading and innovation the designers and management still can't fix a real problem with their guide rail deflector that is still left over from the spare parts bin of the last generation rail.

THIRTY YEARS AGO . [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]


Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1001
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2017, 06:09 PM »
@Dovetail65 -

the two principle issues are that the new fitting leaks like a sieve when attached to the curved hand tubes from the cleaning sets - and - the fitting captures dust in the bayonet groves which falls all over the place when you remove it.

Guys are also peeved because this supposed "upgrade" solved a problem pretty much no one had around here.  The fitting falling off the tool.   But..................the wonks forgot or purposefully decided not to address the other end of the hose at the vacuum.  It's still not a locking fitting .   [doh]

During all this upgrading and innovation the designers and management still can't fix a real problem with their guide rail deflector that is still left over from the spare parts bin of the last generation rail.

THIRTY YEARS AGO . [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]


Bingo.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2017, 10:02 PM »
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.

And that's fine...what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I ordered 4 of the old ends from Uncle Bob, however they were all back ordered. I then called my local Woodcraft store and ordered 2 each of the ends and they were also backordered.

Tomorrow I will contact another local supplier and see what their inventory level is, this doesn't look good. I then have 2 other local suppliers to contact and we'll go from there.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 857
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.

And that's fine...what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I ordered 4 of the old ends from Uncle Bob, however they were all back ordered. I then called my local Woodcraft store and ordered 2 each of the ends and they were also backordered.

Tomorrow I will contact another local supplier and see what their inventory level is, this doesn't look good. I then have 2 other local suppliers to contact and we'll go from there.

Good luck,  I've been looking everywhere for some better older ends. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: Old/New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2017, 02:54 PM »
I stumbled upon this distributor in Utah that appears to still be offering the old 487 071 hose end for sale.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=487071
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 08:23 AM by Cheese »

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 327
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2017, 10:20 PM »
For what it’s worth I really like the locking connection. Even with dust collection dust still hits the floor and I prefer my hose not slipping out of the tool than a little dust on the floor.
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Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2017, 11:08 PM »
um...............we're talking about the dust that builds up inside the groves of the locking hose end and then falls out when you unlock it.

I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

I also prefer my hose connection not to leak -  which the cleantec ones do.  ::)

So, an improvement for an issue that really wasn't an issue for most users but a downgrade in two other areas - one of which is fundamental to use ?

Festool's cleantec hose end = BIG FAIL for function.   

I'll bet it's profitable though.

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 323
Re: Old/New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2017, 11:16 PM »
Thanks Cheese! I just ordered two of the old style ends. I too dislike the new ones.

Jack

I stumbled upon this distributor in Utah the appears to be still offering the old 487 071 hose end for sale.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=487071

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2017, 08:35 AM »
I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 306
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2017, 08:44 AM »
Not that one opinion really matters, but I just wanted to let my opinion be known to Festool ...
I really hate the new hose end and dust ports on the new tools.

In fact I hate them so much I've sourced a few of the old hose ends and dust ports and switched them out on my HK55 & HK85.
I was planning to buy some ETS sanders as well, but I refuse to get them because of that retarded dust port design.

At the very least, you've lost a couple of sales with me because of this silly dust port/hose end design.
Just wanted to voice my opinion that I won't be buying anything with that new dust port design on them, so I guess it looks like I'm done buying Festool.
Good thing I've already got so much gear from back when they hadn't lost their mind at Festool yet.

The locking hose implementation is a bad design. It plain terrible. I personally hate it enough not to buy any more of your tools. Period.
There...
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
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Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2017, 10:27 AM »
Not that one opinion really matters, but I just wanted to let my opinion be known to Festool ...
I really hate the new hose end and dust ports on the new tools.

The locking hose implementation is a bad design. It plain terrible. I personally hate it enough not to buy any more of your tools. Period.
There...

Maybe a shout-out to @TylerC would be appropriate at this time so that he can relay this information to Festool corporate.  [smile]

As an aside, I stopped at Woodcraft yesterday and noticed the latest DF 700 and Rotex 125 demo models both had the new dust ports with the dust catching recesses.  [crying]

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 1028
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2017, 05:55 PM »

Maybe a shout-out to @TylerC would be appropriate at this time so that he can relay this information to Festool corporate.  [smile]

Yep, I’m following along and will make sure that the right people see the feedback. It’s always good to get these sorts of constructive responses. Thanks, all.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 857
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2017, 08:20 PM »
I’m not a fan of the new Festool Hose Ends but it’s not a battle worth fighting.  I have now learned to run the vac when switching between tools,  if not the dust trapped in the voids falls onto the ground.  My thing is that I wish Festool would offer both options and let us decide on the ends that we want to use.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2017, 09:25 PM »
I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.

On the ATF you needed to insert the end inside the casting on the saw. There was a little ridge that engaged in the groove close to the end of the hose connector as I recall. It was a lot of engineering to a problem that had a much simpler solution.   It wasn't ideal, but wasn't bad enough that it pulled out during every use.  It was also the days of the single spine rails that had a deflector that spanned the entire rail so that the hose /cord didn't snag in the uncovered spine.

Tyler is aware of these issues and has relayed the info before, if I recall correctly.   Management has turned a blind eye again.   Tyler et al, just make the old style connector available again and you'll satisfy all parties at very little to no cost to you.

Wonder where Kapex stands in the que to receive the cleantec fitting ?   [big grin]

T - you have three hands? Otherwise that is a royal PitA
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 09:28 PM by antss »

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 99
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2017, 09:31 PM »
I have a sander with the old connection, bought just prior to the changeover, and a saw purchased post change with the new connection. I agree with the comments that the left over dust in the locking grooves is an annoyance. To me, the locking end seems to address a problem that didn't really need to be solved. I've not found it to be a particular benefit for the saw, with the downside of some trapped dust.

OTH, I am looking forward to being able to buy the newly announced sleeved hose with the remote switch.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4332
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2017, 09:43 PM »
I’m not a fan of the new Festool Hose Ends but it’s not a battle worth fighting.  I have now learned to run the vac when switching between tools,  if not the dust trapped in the voids falls onto the ground.  My thing is that I wish Festool would offer both options and let us decide on the ends that we want to use.

Bingo... it’s all about options. What’s wrong with that? Some like the 125 sanders, some like the 150 sanders, some like the 1010 router, some like the 1400 router. Some like the old hose end, some like the new hose end. It may have been a good idea at the time, however, it didn't work out like it was supposed to so...just move on.

Run new ends and old ends, market them both and go on from there. It's only 1 extra part number in the vast sea of 10,000 Festool part numbers.  Festool already owns the tooling for the old hose end so that costs nothing. 
 
Sometimes when you put a customer in a headlock while also applying a knife to the solar plexus, the final result just doesn’t quite work out the way the marketeers thought it would.  [doh]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 10:10 AM by Cheese »

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 327
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2017, 10:49 PM »
I don’t have a 36 mm hose so I have to use the inside ports. So on my 1400 and TS I had struggled with them popping out from time to time. I don’t have a problem with any of my sanders or the of1010 with either connection.

There is some build up in the TS and 1400 connections. I am actually looking for the new locking 1400 dust shroud.

I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 10:55 PM by blaszcsj »
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TS55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 527
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2017, 04:12 AM »
The memory of my antistatic hoses love to drag my routers to the concrete floor
if they're not secured when set aside.  The depth gauges are all broken, but the hose has never disconnected  [big grin]

However, the "upgraded" tools I've bought (the updated ets, rts and dts) all have
caked in schmoo on the dust port, and they spit dust all up into the air and up nosey nose when switching out.  [cool]

I dunno, maybe someone up on a roof is totally benefitting?








Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 99
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2017, 04:39 AM »
I think we can all agree the new connectors are terrible in their current form. Aside from being too stiff (needs to be a softer composition), how can we fix the collection in the recesses?

How about a strategically drilled 1/8" hole in the recesses? Should do the trick. I'm betting we all have a few of these to experiment on.

It would be wonderful to have a fixed connector show up in the mail free of charge but in the meantime let's just figure out a work around.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2017, 08:10 PM »
I think we can all agree the new connectors are terrible in their current form. Aside from being too stiff (needs to be a softer composition), how can we fix the collection in the recesses?

How about a strategically drilled 1/8" hole in the recesses? Should do the trick. I'm betting we all have a few of these to experiment on.

It would be wonderful to have a fixed connector show up in the mail free of charge but in the meantime let's just figure out a work around.

I hate to be a stick in the mud but, why should I have to rube goldberg a brand new dust fitting to keep from spilling dust ?   

And from a company that touts itself as a pioneer in dust collection for hand tools ?

And what are we 'sposed to do about the leakage ?    Duct tape ?  ::) 

That'll sure fix it in a hurry .  And I bet if if I take 1/2 an hour to search, I can find some in Festool navy and green so it's all ghetto fab matchy matchy.  [crying]'

The easiest and simplest would be to bring back the old ones for those that want them.   [poke]

My guess is that FT OEMs them from someone anyway.  Simply requires a phone call to make it happen.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 10:16 PM by antss »