Having trouble with your Festool power tool? Well, we're here to help you. Before posting to the forum, give us a chance to diagnose and resolve your issue. In the U.S. and Canada, call us toll-free at 888-337-8600 on Monday-Friday between 8a-5p EST or contact us via email at service@festoolusa.com. For other countries, please visit http://www.festool.com for contact information for your local Festool service department.

Author Topic: New Dust Extractor Ends  (Read 7753 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 786
New Dust Extractor Ends
« on: March 11, 2017, 08:38 PM »
I have some of the newer tools and vacs with new "improved" hose end.  Any way Festool can offer the older style ends as well as the new one.  I'm personally not a fan of the newer ends and don't see it as an improvement. The ends has voids and when disconnecting the tool from the hose it is messy and drops dust on the floor.  Now I have to turn on my vac before disconnecting a tool. @TylerC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 840
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 08:40 AM »
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?

Offline mattbar1

  • Posts: 6
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 08:57 AM »
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 371
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 09:05 AM »
It does seem like Festool fixed a problem that didn't really exist.  My old style hoses only very occasionally slip off the TS saw - they practically never come off my sander, router, jigsaw. . .

I've noticed more complaints about dust gathering in the new connector grooves than I ever noticed about the old connector slipping off tools.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 786
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 09:26 AM »
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?

Like said in another post, about a 1/4 teaspoon.  The dust builds up in the voids and falls off the hose end when the tool is removed.  I never had an issue with the older style.  Festool might have over engineered this part.  Please let us know if you find out anything. 

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 10:23 AM »
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2080
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 11:38 AM »
I'm finding the new hose end does not stay connected to the stainless floor sweep pipe or the other cleaning tools.  The old one would let me hold the pipe while picking up dust across the floor, or with a brush along baseboards.  This new one requires my hand be on the hose to keep it connected.

On the plastic hand tools like the brush or crevice tool, this new design does not give a tight seal.  Instead of all the suction going to picking up dust, there is now leakage as the new end does not seat fully in the tool opening. 

And these are Festool cleaning tools, not third party.

@TylerC suggest you try it on cleaning tools there and report back if you experience the same thing.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2996
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 11:40 AM »
Here's another discussion on the same topic.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

It's not the quantity of dust that's the issue but rather just the annoyance of having used a vac to keep things clean and tidy but then when you change sanders, it suddenly becomes white drywall dust splattered on a black rug.  [mad]

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 415
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 06:04 PM »
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55


Offline antss

  • Posts: 906
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 07:20 PM »
@TylerC - please tell them the peanut gallery members that aren't painters aren't really satisfied with improvement R&D has dreamt up - and that the old style needs to be CONTINUED TO BE MANUFACTURED for some time to come.  I can't say this strongly enough !

Mgmt. is ,in effect, penalizing early customers with an inferior product in the hopes of chasing a new segment. 

I'll bet you don't even have plans in the works to update things like the vac tubes/handles do you? 

And .......I'd like to know why none of this was uncovered during the research / prototype phase.  Peter H. insists that you test product before launch but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I uncovered this leaking issue on several tools withing minutes of using the new hose end , and my experience doesn't seem to be operator error or an aberration now that some others are actually starting to use these things.

So either you don't test, or you solicit the wrong folks for testing. Or, you do test, find problems and management decides the punters will just have to live with the issues ???   

None of these bodes well for a company trying to stay at the top of a competitive market.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 371
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 01:43 AM »
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 824
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 05:51 AM »
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers

 @mrB yes the 27mm hose fits snugly inside the newish ratcheting attachment.

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 80
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 07:50 AM »
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 ....

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55



I got one of these for my TS75.  It is an improvement on the original, but not perfect - the "ratchet" is pretty weak so that the hose direction does click around when you don't want it to.

Cheers



Offline scholar

  • Posts: 80
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 08:15 AM »
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Peter

Regrettably the dust trapping/spillage problem is not better when using matched ends - see the thread linked to earlier with some photos.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

Moreover, the hose needs to be used with new and old style Festool tools and, yes, third party tools too:-o

Others have commented on the R&D process failure on this issue and I agree.  Having been a longtime evangelist for everything Festool, in particular the idea that clean, dust-free working was in the Festool DNA, this issue has significantly clouded my devotion - unfortunately, I am reminded of this every time I use the new connector. 

It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

[There should then be an internal enquiry into how the engineering dept was allowed to do this and a thank you to the customer base for providing all this unpaid advice and expertise!]

We can hope.

Cheers



Offline Ross 71

  • Posts: 48
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 03:59 PM »
It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

Agree completely with this proposal. I've not had this problem yet, as I've not bought anything big for a while. Trouble is I'm waiting for new stock of a domino to arrive-will it have the new fitting. Same with the sander  which I've just ordered. If my dust extractor is the old fitting and has no issues, I don't want to buy a problem. I'll have to see with the sander. If it is a problem I'll review the purchase of the domino until the issues are resolved.



[/quote]
If you need a tool and don't buy it, You will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it- Henry Ford

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 3535
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 10:53 AM »
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55



Hi Peter

Thank you for pointing this out. I am in the process of fitting one and will include the detail in an upcoming "Workshop Notes" video. It seems to be stiffer to move than the standard fitting so fingers crossed.

Peter

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 56
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 11:04 PM »
I am new to Festool within the last 8 months. I had purchased a used ETS 150/3 and then the Pro 5. I can honestly say that I detest the new locking hose end. There is always dust left in the end that fall out when the hose is removed. I rarely ever lock the hose end on since it is such a pain and requires way too much effort.

I much prefer the old style friction fit. I don't see how the hose could fall off if it was pushed on all the way. Unless the hose gets snagged on something and the tool was being pulled away.

I want the old hose end for my tools.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 333
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 03:36 PM »
I've gotten a few tools with the new locking dust port.
It was generous of Festool to include the new hose end
with them.  However, they're shuffled off into a drawer.
They're not hard to figure out or anything, they just take
five times as long to connect and disconnect. 

Bottom line, it seems like nobody likes them. 


Offline wetndry

  • Posts: 45
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 05:52 PM »
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.

I have the older style on my sanders except the new Pro5 (which is harder to control than my rotex) and it does drop dust unless the vacuum is on when disconnecting.  1/4 tsp is not much unless of coarse you are sanding lead paint.  The new sanders and CT extractor hoses with new style comnector may have a problem passing certification.

It may not be an issue for me as I am deciding between sending it back for repairs or return within 30 days for refund.  6 months waiting for shipment for a defective sander.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 05:55 PM by wetndry »

Offline waterloomarc

  • Posts: 97
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2017, 08:52 AM »
Yes this is the festool equivalent of the "new coke" (not sure if the folks across the pond were subjected to that abomination back in the 80's or not)

Some nitwit in a cubicle somewhere comes up with a brilliant plan to fix something that isn't broken and makes things way worse as a result.

Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 906
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2017, 09:00 AM »
"Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts."

Yes, but it did take a while. Public pressure certainly played a role.

Doubtful, German companies are generally too arrogant to publicly admit errors.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 786
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2017, 06:54 PM »
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style. 

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 328
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 08:37 PM »
"Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal."

I recently received my TSC55 and noticed that you can't leave the hose adapter rotated
up toward the lid. If you rotate it to the side or down then you can close the lid without
interference. Or you can remove it which is what I did because most times I will be using
my saw with the dust bag and not connected to my CT36. I have not even tried connecting
to the CT yet so can't comment on how that works. There was an adapter in the box with
the saw which I assume is to connnect to the older (but in my opinion better) style hoses.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline jetset95

  • Posts: 15
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2017, 05:28 AM »
Interesting thread - I just purchased a TS 55 and it came with the new fitting, the problem (if you can call it that) is that the TS 55 is the only Festool item I own. My vac is a generic shop vac (from Wickes if you're in the UK) and I can push the new hose adapter onto the hard plastic nozzle and attach it to my TS 55. I wasn't expecting perfect dust control using this Frankenstein hybrid but it's a lot better than when I was jamming the vac tubing into the dust port of my Bosch circular saw, so overall I'm happy with this arrangement.

What I'm concerned about is how this impacts my plans to build up my small garage shop moving forwards. Here in the UK my one car garage is only about 120 square feet so I plan on building a solid workbench and mainly use hand tools where I can. The TS 55 is to manage larger sheet goods, and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.

Offline Poindexter

  • Posts: 137
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2017, 06:57 AM »
Why was it changed? 

Offline Ross 71

  • Posts: 48
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 03:09 PM »
.......and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.
If you have to switch on the dust vac every time, you're going to LOVE your CT Midi when you get it. After a year and half I still can't get over the thrill of the vacuum turning on and off when I start the saw. makes me chuckle every time.

Ross
If you need a tool and don't buy it, You will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it- Henry Ford

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2996
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2017, 08:24 AM »
Why was it changed? 

There were some issues with the dust hose catching on the TS rail and being pulled off, also some users complained about the dust hose falling off of the routers and a few sanders.

So, the hose fitting was then re-engineered to be a twist-lock style fitting. That solution however, brought forth its own bag of gremlins.  [doh]
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 09:07 AM by Cheese »

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 840
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2017, 08:24 AM »
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 906
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2017, 08:38 AM »
Any plans to fix the guide rail deflector that has been a problem since the upgrade to the twin spine variant ?

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 80
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2017, 09:56 AM »
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.

Thanks @TylerC for engaging with us on this issue.

The "more secure" connection offered by the new design is a trivial benefit compared to the price of:

- massively increased effort to attach and remove the new connector; and
- serious dust spillage (leading to extra clean up effort, untidiness and potential hazard); and
- loss of efficiency due to air loss when using the cleaning kits (thanks @T. Ernsberger)

The new connector design also offers no benefit on the D36 hose as I understand that no D36 "Cleantec" is offered. In my case, I prefer to use the D36 with the bigger tools e.g. TS75, BS105 and OF2200 that are the most likely to lose the connector in use due to the design of the tool spigot).

Reference @Cheese comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.

Let us just examine the supposed benefits of a "more secure" connection.  When you are operating a powerful tool and the hose snags, maybe on the end of the rail or on the workbench, what would you prefer to happen:

- the hose lets go,leaving you to decide whether to continue the cut or stop and reattach; or
- the hose stays tight (and snagged) causing the tool to become unbalanced or get pulled off line?

I remain of the view that Festool have boobed here and should be big enough to take on board the feedback from the real world. Speaking for myself, I experience irritation every time I have to struggle with this flawed design, either by having to turn the vac on manually to suck up the spillage or by the unnecessary physical effort involved in fitting and removing the hose - I would suggest that the company should reflect on the negative feelings of goodwill that this irritation produces. It is not an overstatement that it has caused me to reexamine my whole view of the Festool brand (and I am pretty well invested in it!).

Cheers




« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 04:18 PM by scholar »