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Author Topic: New Dust Extractor Ends  (Read 1909 times)

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Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 721
New Dust Extractor Ends
« on: March 11, 2017, 08:38 PM »
I have some of the newer tools and vacs with new "improved" hose end.  Any way Festool can offer the older style ends as well as the new one.  I'm personally not a fan of the newer ends and don't see it as an improvement. The ends has voids and when disconnecting the tool from the hose it is messy and drops dust on the floor.  Now I have to turn on my vac before disconnecting a tool. @TylerC

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Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
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  • Posts: 715
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 08:40 AM »
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?

Offline mattbar1

  • Posts: 6
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 08:57 AM »
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 359
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 09:05 AM »
It does seem like Festool fixed a problem that didn't really exist.  My old style hoses only very occasionally slip off the TS saw - they practically never come off my sander, router, jigsaw. . .

I've noticed more complaints about dust gathering in the new connector grooves than I ever noticed about the old connector slipping off tools.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 721
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 09:26 AM »
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?

Like said in another post, about a 1/4 teaspoon.  The dust builds up in the voids and falls off the hose end when the tool is removed.  I never had an issue with the older style.  Festool might have over engineered this part.  Please let us know if you find out anything. 

Offline Peter Parfitt

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  • Posts: 3407
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 10:23 AM »
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2020
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 11:38 AM »
I'm finding the new hose end does not stay connected to the stainless floor sweep pipe or the other cleaning tools.  The old one would let me hold the pipe while picking up dust across the floor, or with a brush along baseboards.  This new one requires my hand be on the hose to keep it connected.

On the plastic hand tools like the brush or crevice tool, this new design does not give a tight seal.  Instead of all the suction going to picking up dust, there is now leakage as the new end does not seat fully in the tool opening. 

And these are Festool cleaning tools, not third party.

@TylerC suggest you try it on cleaning tools there and report back if you experience the same thing.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 2785
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 11:40 AM »
Here's another discussion on the same topic.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

It's not the quantity of dust that's the issue but rather just the annoyance of having used a vac to keep things clean and tidy but then when you change sanders, it suddenly becomes white drywall dust splattered on a black rug.  [mad]

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 388
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 06:04 PM »
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55


Offline antss

  • Posts: 637
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 07:20 PM »
@TylerC - please tell them the peanut gallery members that aren't painters aren't really satisfied with improvement R&D has dreamt up - and that the old style needs to be CONTINUED TO BE MANUFACTURED for some time to come.  I can't say this strongly enough !

Mgmt. is ,in effect, penalizing early customers with an inferior product in the hopes of chasing a new segment. 

I'll bet you don't even have plans in the works to update things like the vac tubes/handles do you? 

And .......I'd like to know why none of this was uncovered during the research / prototype phase.  Peter H. insists that you test product before launch but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I uncovered this leaking issue on several tools withing minutes of using the new hose end , and my experience doesn't seem to be operator error or an aberration now that some others are actually starting to use these things.

So either you don't test, or you solicit the wrong folks for testing. Or, you do test, find problems and management decides the punters will just have to live with the issues ???   

None of these bodes well for a company trying to stay at the top of a competitive market.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 359
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 01:43 AM »
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 817
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 05:51 AM »
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers

 @mrB yes the 27mm hose fits snugly inside the newish ratcheting attachment.

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 72
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 07:50 AM »
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 ....

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55



I got one of these for my TS75.  It is an improvement on the original, but not perfect - the "ratchet" is pretty weak so that the hose direction does click around when you don't want it to.

Cheers



Offline scholar

  • Posts: 72
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 08:15 AM »
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Peter

Regrettably the dust trapping/spillage problem is not better when using matched ends - see the thread linked to earlier with some photos.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

Moreover, the hose needs to be used with new and old style Festool tools and, yes, third party tools too:-o

Others have commented on the R&D process failure on this issue and I agree.  Having been a longtime evangelist for everything Festool, in particular the idea that clean, dust-free working was in the Festool DNA, this issue has significantly clouded my devotion - unfortunately, I am reminded of this every time I use the new connector. 

It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

[There should then be an internal enquiry into how the engineering dept was allowed to do this and a thank you to the customer base for providing all this unpaid advice and expertise!]

We can hope.

Cheers



Offline Ross 71

  • Posts: 39
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 03:59 PM »
It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

Agree completely with this proposal. I've not had this problem yet, as I've not bought anything big for a while. Trouble is I'm waiting for new stock of a domino to arrive-will it have the new fitting. Same with the sander  which I've just ordered. If my dust extractor is the old fitting and has no issues, I don't want to buy a problem. I'll have to see with the sander. If it is a problem I'll review the purchase of the domino until the issues are resolved.



[/quote]
If you need a tool and don't buy it, You will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it- Henry Ford

Offline Peter Parfitt

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  • Posts: 3407
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 10:53 AM »
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55



Hi Peter

Thank you for pointing this out. I am in the process of fitting one and will include the detail in an upcoming "Workshop Notes" video. It seems to be stiffer to move than the standard fitting so fingers crossed.

Peter