Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tool Problems => Topic started by: T. Ernsberger on March 11, 2017, 08:38 PM

Title: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: T. Ernsberger on March 11, 2017, 08:38 PM
I have some of the newer tools and vacs with new "improved" hose end.  Any way Festool can offer the older style ends as well as the new one.  I'm personally not a fan of the newer ends and don't see it as an improvement. The ends has voids and when disconnecting the tool from the hose it is messy and drops dust on the floor.  Now I have to turn on my vac before disconnecting a tool. @TylerC
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: TylerC on March 13, 2017, 08:40 AM
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: mattbar1 on March 13, 2017, 08:57 AM
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: mrB on March 13, 2017, 09:05 AM
It does seem like Festool fixed a problem that didn't really exist.  My old style hoses only very occasionally slip off the TS saw - they practically never come off my sander, router, jigsaw. . .

I've noticed more complaints about dust gathering in the new connector grooves than I ever noticed about the old connector slipping off tools.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: T. Ernsberger on March 13, 2017, 09:26 AM
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?

Like said in another post, about a 1/4 teaspoon.  The dust builds up in the voids and falls off the hose end when the tool is removed.  I never had an issue with the older style.  Festool might have over engineered this part.  Please let us know if you find out anything. 
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Peter Parfitt on March 13, 2017, 10:23 AM
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: neilc on March 13, 2017, 11:38 AM
I'm finding the new hose end does not stay connected to the stainless floor sweep pipe or the other cleaning tools.  The old one would let me hold the pipe while picking up dust across the floor, or with a brush along baseboards.  This new one requires my hand be on the hose to keep it connected.

On the plastic hand tools like the brush or crevice tool, this new design does not give a tight seal.  Instead of all the suction going to picking up dust, there is now leakage as the new end does not seat fully in the tool opening. 

And these are Festool cleaning tools, not third party.

@TylerC suggest you try it on cleaning tools there and report back if you experience the same thing.

Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on March 13, 2017, 11:40 AM
Here's another discussion on the same topic.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

It's not the quantity of dust that's the issue but rather just the annoyance of having used a vac to keep things clean and tidy but then when you change sanders, it suddenly becomes white drywall dust splattered on a black rug.  [mad]
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Peter_C on March 13, 2017, 06:04 PM
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55

(https://images.ffx.co.uk/tools/10015824.jpg)
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on March 13, 2017, 07:20 PM
@TylerC - please tell them the peanut gallery members that aren't painters aren't really satisfied with improvement R&D has dreamt up - and that the old style needs to be CONTINUED TO BE MANUFACTURED for some time to come.  I can't say this strongly enough !

Mgmt. is ,in effect, penalizing early customers with an inferior product in the hopes of chasing a new segment. 

I'll bet you don't even have plans in the works to update things like the vac tubes/handles do you? 

And .......I'd like to know why none of this was uncovered during the research / prototype phase.  Peter H. insists that you test product before launch but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I uncovered this leaking issue on several tools withing minutes of using the new hose end , and my experience doesn't seem to be operator error or an aberration now that some others are actually starting to use these things.

So either you don't test, or you solicit the wrong folks for testing. Or, you do test, find problems and management decides the punters will just have to live with the issues ???   

None of these bodes well for a company trying to stay at the top of a competitive market.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: mrB on March 14, 2017, 01:43 AM
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: DB10 on March 14, 2017, 05:51 AM
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers

 @mrB yes the 27mm hose fits snugly inside the newish ratcheting attachment.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: scholar on March 14, 2017, 07:50 AM
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 ....

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55

(https://images.ffx.co.uk/tools/10015824.jpg)

I got one of these for my TS75.  It is an improvement on the original, but not perfect - the "ratchet" is pretty weak so that the hose direction does click around when you don't want it to.

Cheers


Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: scholar on March 14, 2017, 08:15 AM
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Peter

Regrettably the dust trapping/spillage problem is not better when using matched ends - see the thread linked to earlier with some photos.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

Moreover, the hose needs to be used with new and old style Festool tools and, yes, third party tools too:-o

Others have commented on the R&D process failure on this issue and I agree.  Having been a longtime evangelist for everything Festool, in particular the idea that clean, dust-free working was in the Festool DNA, this issue has significantly clouded my devotion - unfortunately, I am reminded of this every time I use the new connector. 

It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

[There should then be an internal enquiry into how the engineering dept was allowed to do this and a thank you to the customer base for providing all this unpaid advice and expertise!]

We can hope.

Cheers


Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Ross 71 on March 14, 2017, 03:59 PM
It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

Agree completely with this proposal. I've not had this problem yet, as I've not bought anything big for a while. Trouble is I'm waiting for new stock of a domino to arrive-will it have the new fitting. Same with the sander  which I've just ordered. If my dust extractor is the old fitting and has no issues, I don't want to buy a problem. I'll have to see with the sander. If it is a problem I'll review the purchase of the domino until the issues are resolved.



[/quote]
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Peter Parfitt on March 18, 2017, 10:53 AM
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55

(https://images.ffx.co.uk/tools/10015824.jpg)

Hi Peter

Thank you for pointing this out. I am in the process of fitting one and will include the detail in an upcoming "Workshop Notes" video. It seems to be stiffer to move than the standard fitting so fingers crossed.

Peter
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: The.Handyman on April 03, 2017, 11:04 PM
I am new to Festool within the last 8 months. I had purchased a used ETS 150/3 and then the Pro 5. I can honestly say that I detest the new locking hose end. There is always dust left in the end that fall out when the hose is removed. I rarely ever lock the hose end on since it is such a pain and requires way too much effort.

I much prefer the old style friction fit. I don't see how the hose could fall off if it was pushed on all the way. Unless the hose gets snagged on something and the tool was being pulled away.

I want the old hose end for my tools.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: yetihunter on April 08, 2017, 03:36 PM
I've gotten a few tools with the new locking dust port.
It was generous of Festool to include the new hose end
with them.  However, they're shuffled off into a drawer.
They're not hard to figure out or anything, they just take
five times as long to connect and disconnect. 

Bottom line, it seems like nobody likes them. 

Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: wetndry on April 08, 2017, 05:52 PM
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.

I have the older style on my sanders except the new Pro5 (which is harder to control than my rotex) and it does drop dust unless the vacuum is on when disconnecting.  1/4 tsp is not much unless of coarse you are sanding lead paint.  The new sanders and CT extractor hoses with new style comnector may have a problem passing certification.

It may not be an issue for me as I am deciding between sending it back for repairs or return within 30 days for refund.  6 months waiting for shipment for a defective sander.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: waterloomarc on April 14, 2017, 08:52 AM
Yes this is the festool equivalent of the "new coke" (not sure if the folks across the pond were subjected to that abomination back in the 80's or not)

Some nitwit in a cubicle somewhere comes up with a brilliant plan to fix something that isn't broken and makes things way worse as a result.

Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on April 14, 2017, 09:00 AM
"Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts."

Yes, but it did take a while. Public pressure certainly played a role.

Doubtful, German companies are generally too arrogant to publicly admit errors.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 22, 2017, 06:54 PM
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style. 
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Bob D. on April 22, 2017, 08:37 PM
"Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal."

I recently received my TSC55 and noticed that you can't leave the hose adapter rotated
up toward the lid. If you rotate it to the side or down then you can close the lid without
interference. Or you can remove it which is what I did because most times I will be using
my saw with the dust bag and not connected to my CT36. I have not even tried connecting
to the CT yet so can't comment on how that works. There was an adapter in the box with
the saw which I assume is to connnect to the older (but in my opinion better) style hoses.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: jetset95 on April 23, 2017, 05:28 AM
Interesting thread - I just purchased a TS 55 and it came with the new fitting, the problem (if you can call it that) is that the TS 55 is the only Festool item I own. My vac is a generic shop vac (from Wickes if you're in the UK) and I can push the new hose adapter onto the hard plastic nozzle and attach it to my TS 55. I wasn't expecting perfect dust control using this Frankenstein hybrid but it's a lot better than when I was jamming the vac tubing into the dust port of my Bosch circular saw, so overall I'm happy with this arrangement.

What I'm concerned about is how this impacts my plans to build up my small garage shop moving forwards. Here in the UK my one car garage is only about 120 square feet so I plan on building a solid workbench and mainly use hand tools where I can. The TS 55 is to manage larger sheet goods, and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Poindexter on April 23, 2017, 06:57 AM
Why was it changed? 
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Ross 71 on April 23, 2017, 03:09 PM
.......and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.
If you have to switch on the dust vac every time, you're going to LOVE your CT Midi when you get it. After a year and half I still can't get over the thrill of the vacuum turning on and off when I start the saw. makes me chuckle every time.

Ross
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on April 24, 2017, 08:24 AM
Why was it changed? 

There were some issues with the dust hose catching on the TS rail and being pulled off, also some users complained about the dust hose falling off of the routers and a few sanders.

So, the hose fitting was then re-engineered to be a twist-lock style fitting. That solution however, brought forth its own bag of gremlins.  [doh]
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: TylerC on April 24, 2017, 08:24 AM
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on April 24, 2017, 08:38 AM
Any plans to fix the guide rail deflector that has been a problem since the upgrade to the twin spine variant ?
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: scholar on April 24, 2017, 09:56 AM
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.

Thanks @TylerC for engaging with us on this issue.

The "more secure" connection offered by the new design is a trivial benefit compared to the price of:

- massively increased effort to attach and remove the new connector; and
- serious dust spillage (leading to extra clean up effort, untidiness and potential hazard); and
- loss of efficiency due to air loss when using the cleaning kits (thanks @T. Ernsberger)

The new connector design also offers no benefit on the D36 hose as I understand that no D36 "Cleantec" is offered. In my case, I prefer to use the D36 with the bigger tools e.g. TS75, BS105 and OF2200 that are the most likely to lose the connector in use due to the design of the tool spigot).

Reference @Cheese comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.

Let us just examine the supposed benefits of a "more secure" connection.  When you are operating a powerful tool and the hose snags, maybe on the end of the rail or on the workbench, what would you prefer to happen:

- the hose lets go,leaving you to decide whether to continue the cut or stop and reattach; or
- the hose stays tight (and snagged) causing the tool to become unbalanced or get pulled off line?

I remain of the view that Festool have boobed here and should be big enough to take on board the feedback from the real world. Speaking for myself, I experience irritation every time I have to struggle with this flawed design, either by having to turn the vac on manually to suck up the spillage or by the unnecessary physical effort involved in fitting and removing the hose - I would suggest that the company should reflect on the negative feelings of goodwill that this irritation produces. It is not an overstatement that it has caused me to reexamine my whole view of the Festool brand (and I am pretty well invested in it!).

Cheers




Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on April 24, 2017, 10:50 AM
@TylerC - what do the engineers have to say about the "much less secure" connection at the vacuum itself ? [scratch chin]

The system is only as good as it's weakest link, and the connection at the vacuum is not a locking fitting.  A design a lot of other vacuums already have like Bosch, Mafell, Dewalt Metabo and cheapies like Shop Vac and Ridgid even have it.  Why didn't they start there? 

I'll go out on a limb and say that more guys have experienced pulling their CT around the shop or jobsite and pulled the hose out of the vacuum body than have ever dislodged their sander from the end fitting.


This just seems like someone's pet project that met their own need , but doesn't translate into the marketplace.  A bit like Piech's VW Phaeton project.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on April 24, 2017, 10:59 AM

Reference @Cheese comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.


Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank @TylerC for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: jetset95 on April 24, 2017, 11:03 AM
Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank @TylerC for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on April 24, 2017, 11:58 AM

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.


Actually, we've been provided this information early enough that these old 487 071 hose ends are probably still available just about everywhere.

The problem has been in the past, we were only given a heads-up on obsoleted parts months & months after the fact and through just the normal sales of product, the inventory levels were then depleted to very low levels and it became very frustrating, if not impossible to find the obsoleted items. Think...MFS, aluminum saw blades, steel saw blades, spark arrestors, router sled...
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 24, 2017, 12:43 PM
@TylerC The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: scholar on April 24, 2017, 04:20 PM
@TylerC The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 

Thanks T. E.. - I knew there was a third objection, but I forgot to include it - my earlier post now updated!

Cheers

Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: magellan on April 24, 2017, 07:13 PM
It was mentioned that the old style is still available.  It is not as far as I have found.  I have been searching for awhile for one.  March 28 th I ordered one from Ace Tool in NY by phone.  I was told it would be shipped out in a few days.  Then I was sent an email that it was on back order    After a few emails and a phone call today i was sent an email stating they discontinued the part and would be sent the new replacement part.  I replied and declined the new part and asked for a refund.   First time using Ace Tools and it was not very good customer service to make me wait a month and I had to contact them to find out I'm still without the old style hose end.   

I personally do not like the new style hose end.   Too stiff for one thing.  Just offer both styles and the all customers are happy. 

If someone finds a cache of old style hose ends please let me know I'd like to buy one
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Laminator on April 24, 2017, 10:14 PM
Antss, I'v been on that limb many times and end up pushing hard while trying to twist the connector in an attempt to make the connection not come out.  Keeping in mind the ct26 is topped with a work center with tools and is quite heavy,  I've given up trying to move it by pulling the hose. 

Have not handled the new end and thankful to have a few of the old ones on hand after hearing about  the new one.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: ben_r_ on April 27, 2017, 04:33 PM
Anyone know a way that the new DTS/RTS 400 REQ sanders can be converted to the old style hose connection? I am thinking of picking one of them up and it would be the only Festool tool I own with the new connector and I dont like what I have been reading about it and would prefer all my tools had the same.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Dovetail65 on April 27, 2017, 04:55 PM
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on April 27, 2017, 05:57 PM
@Dovetail65 -

the two principle issues are that the new fitting leaks like a sieve when attached to the curved hand tubes from the cleaning sets - and - the fitting captures dust in the bayonet groves which falls all over the place when you remove it.

Guys are also peeved because this supposed "upgrade" solved a problem pretty much no one had around here.  The fitting falling off the tool.   But..................the wonks forgot or purposefully decided not to address the other end of the hose at the vacuum.  It's still not a locking fitting .   [doh]

During all this upgrading and innovation the designers and management still can't fix a real problem with their guide rail deflector that is still left over from the spare parts bin of the last generation rail.

THIRTY YEARS AGO . [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]

Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: ben_r_ on April 27, 2017, 06:09 PM
@Dovetail65 -

the two principle issues are that the new fitting leaks like a sieve when attached to the curved hand tubes from the cleaning sets - and - the fitting captures dust in the bayonet groves which falls all over the place when you remove it.

Guys are also peeved because this supposed "upgrade" solved a problem pretty much no one had around here.  The fitting falling off the tool.   But..................the wonks forgot or purposefully decided not to address the other end of the hose at the vacuum.  It's still not a locking fitting .   [doh]

During all this upgrading and innovation the designers and management still can't fix a real problem with their guide rail deflector that is still left over from the spare parts bin of the last generation rail.

THIRTY YEARS AGO . [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]


Bingo.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on April 27, 2017, 10:02 PM
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.

And that's fine...what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I ordered 4 of the old ends from Uncle Bob, however they were all back ordered. I then called my local Woodcraft store and ordered 2 each of the ends and they were also backordered.

Tomorrow I will contact another local supplier and see what their inventory level is, this doesn't look good. I then have 2 other local suppliers to contact and we'll go from there.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: T. Ernsberger on April 27, 2017, 10:39 PM
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.

And that's fine...what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I ordered 4 of the old ends from Uncle Bob, however they were all back ordered. I then called my local Woodcraft store and ordered 2 each of the ends and they were also backordered.

Tomorrow I will contact another local supplier and see what their inventory level is, this doesn't look good. I then have 2 other local suppliers to contact and we'll go from there.

Good luck,  I've been looking everywhere for some better older ends. 
Title: Re: Old/New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on December 09, 2017, 02:54 PM
I stumbled upon this distributor in Utah that appears to still be offering the old 487 071 hose end for sale.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=487071
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: blaszcsj on December 09, 2017, 10:20 PM
For what it’s worth I really like the locking connection. Even with dust collection dust still hits the floor and I prefer my hose not slipping out of the tool than a little dust on the floor.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on December 09, 2017, 11:08 PM
um...............we're talking about the dust that builds up inside the groves of the locking hose end and then falls out when you unlock it.

I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

I also prefer my hose connection not to leak -  which the cleantec ones do.  ::)

So, an improvement for an issue that really wasn't an issue for most users but a downgrade in two other areas - one of which is fundamental to use ?

Festool's cleantec hose end = BIG FAIL for function.   

I'll bet it's profitable though.
Title: Re: Old/New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Claimdude on December 09, 2017, 11:16 PM
Thanks Cheese! I just ordered two of the old style ends. I too dislike the new ones.

Jack

I stumbled upon this distributor in Utah the appears to be still offering the old 487 071 hose end for sale.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=487071
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on December 10, 2017, 08:35 AM
I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: jonathan-m on December 10, 2017, 08:44 AM
Not that one opinion really matters, but I just wanted to let my opinion be known to Festool ...
I really hate the new hose end and dust ports on the new tools.

In fact I hate them so much I've sourced a few of the old hose ends and dust ports and switched them out on my HK55 & HK85.
I was planning to buy some ETS sanders as well, but I refuse to get them because of that retarded dust port design.

At the very least, you've lost a couple of sales with me because of this silly dust port/hose end design.
Just wanted to voice my opinion that I won't be buying anything with that new dust port design on them, so I guess it looks like I'm done buying Festool.
Good thing I've already got so much gear from back when they hadn't lost their mind at Festool yet.

The locking hose implementation is a bad design. It plain terrible. I personally hate it enough not to buy any more of your tools. Period.
There...
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on December 10, 2017, 10:27 AM
Not that one opinion really matters, but I just wanted to let my opinion be known to Festool ...
I really hate the new hose end and dust ports on the new tools.

The locking hose implementation is a bad design. It plain terrible. I personally hate it enough not to buy any more of your tools. Period.
There...

Maybe a shout-out to @TylerC would be appropriate at this time so that he can relay this information to Festool corporate.  [smile]

As an aside, I stopped at Woodcraft yesterday and noticed the latest DF 700 and Rotex 125 demo models both had the new dust ports with the dust catching recesses.  [crying]
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: TylerC on December 10, 2017, 05:55 PM

Maybe a shout-out to @TylerC would be appropriate at this time so that he can relay this information to Festool corporate.  [smile]

Yep, I’m following along and will make sure that the right people see the feedback. It’s always good to get these sorts of constructive responses. Thanks, all.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: T. Ernsberger on December 10, 2017, 08:20 PM
I’m not a fan of the new Festool Hose Ends but it’s not a battle worth fighting.  I have now learned to run the vac when switching between tools,  if not the dust trapped in the voids falls onto the ground.  My thing is that I wish Festool would offer both options and let us decide on the ends that we want to use.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on December 10, 2017, 09:25 PM
I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.

On the ATF you needed to insert the end inside the casting on the saw. There was a little ridge that engaged in the groove close to the end of the hose connector as I recall. It was a lot of engineering to a problem that had a much simpler solution.   It wasn't ideal, but wasn't bad enough that it pulled out during every use.  It was also the days of the single spine rails that had a deflector that spanned the entire rail so that the hose /cord didn't snag in the uncovered spine.

Tyler is aware of these issues and has relayed the info before, if I recall correctly.   Management has turned a blind eye again.   Tyler et al, just make the old style connector available again and you'll satisfy all parties at very little to no cost to you.

Wonder where Kapex stands in the que to receive the cleantec fitting ?   [big grin]

T - you have three hands? Otherwise that is a royal PitA
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: pixelated on December 10, 2017, 09:31 PM
I have a sander with the old connection, bought just prior to the changeover, and a saw purchased post change with the new connection. I agree with the comments that the left over dust in the locking grooves is an annoyance. To me, the locking end seems to address a problem that didn't really need to be solved. I've not found it to be a particular benefit for the saw, with the downside of some trapped dust.

OTH, I am looking forward to being able to buy the newly announced sleeved hose with the remote switch.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: Cheese on December 10, 2017, 09:43 PM
I’m not a fan of the new Festool Hose Ends but it’s not a battle worth fighting.  I have now learned to run the vac when switching between tools,  if not the dust trapped in the voids falls onto the ground.  My thing is that I wish Festool would offer both options and let us decide on the ends that we want to use.

Bingo... it’s all about options. What’s wrong with that? Some like the 125 sanders, some like the 150 sanders, some like the 1010 router, some like the 1400 router. Some like the old hose end, some like the new hose end. It may have been a good idea at the time, however, it didn't work out like it was supposed to so...just move on.

Run new ends and old ends, market them both and go on from there. It's only 1 extra part number in the vast sea of 10,000 Festool part numbers.  Festool already owns the tooling for the old hose end so that costs nothing. 
 
Sometimes when you put a customer in a headlock while also applying a knife to the solar plexus, the final result just doesn’t quite work out the way the marketeers thought it would.  [doh]
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: blaszcsj on December 10, 2017, 10:49 PM
I don’t have a 36 mm hose so I have to use the inside ports. So on my 1400 and TS I had struggled with them popping out from time to time. I don’t have a problem with any of my sanders or the of1010 with either connection.

There is some build up in the TS and 1400 connections. I am actually looking for the new locking 1400 dust shroud.

I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: yetihunter on December 11, 2017, 04:12 AM
The memory of my antistatic hoses love to drag my routers to the concrete floor
if they're not secured when set aside.  The depth gauges are all broken, but the hose has never disconnected  [big grin]

However, the "upgraded" tools I've bought (the updated ets, rts and dts) all have
caked in schmoo on the dust port, and they spit dust all up into the air and up nosey nose when switching out.  [cool]

I dunno, maybe someone up on a roof is totally benefitting?







Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: DynaGlide on December 11, 2017, 04:39 AM
I think we can all agree the new connectors are terrible in their current form. Aside from being too stiff (needs to be a softer composition), how can we fix the collection in the recesses?

How about a strategically drilled 1/8" hole in the recesses? Should do the trick. I'm betting we all have a few of these to experiment on.

It would be wonderful to have a fixed connector show up in the mail free of charge but in the meantime let's just figure out a work around.
Title: Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
Post by: antss on December 11, 2017, 08:10 PM
I think we can all agree the new connectors are terrible in their current form. Aside from being too stiff (needs to be a softer composition), how can we fix the collection in the recesses?

How about a strategically drilled 1/8" hole in the recesses? Should do the trick. I'm betting we all have a few of these to experiment on.

It would be wonderful to have a fixed connector show up in the mail free of charge but in the meantime let's just figure out a work around.

I hate to be a stick in the mud but, why should I have to rube goldberg a brand new dust fitting to keep from spilling dust ?   

And from a company that touts itself as a pioneer in dust collection for hand tools ?

And what are we 'sposed to do about the leakage ?    Duct tape ?  ::) 

That'll sure fix it in a hurry .  And I bet if if I take 1/2 an hour to search, I can find some in Festool navy and green so it's all ghetto fab matchy matchy.  [crying]'

The easiest and simplest would be to bring back the old ones for those that want them.   [poke]

My guess is that FT OEMs them from someone anyway.  Simply requires a phone call to make it happen.