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Author Topic: New Dust Extractor Ends  (Read 25235 times)

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Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
New Dust Extractor Ends
« on: March 11, 2017, 08:38 PM »
I have some of the newer tools and vacs with new "improved" hose end.  Any way Festool can offer the older style ends as well as the new one.  I'm personally not a fan of the newer ends and don't see it as an improvement. The ends has voids and when disconnecting the tool from the hose it is messy and drops dust on the floor.  Now I have to turn on my vac before disconnecting a tool. @TylerC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline TylerC

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Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2017, 08:40 AM »
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?
This account is retired. Please address all Festool questions to @festool usa.

Offline mattbar1

  • Posts: 8
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2017, 08:57 AM »
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 551
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2017, 09:05 AM »
It does seem like Festool fixed a problem that didn't really exist.  My old style hoses only very occasionally slip off the TS saw - they practically never come off my sander, router, jigsaw. . .

I've noticed more complaints about dust gathering in the new connector grooves than I ever noticed about the old connector slipping off tools.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2017, 09:26 AM »
I wouldn't expect to see a the old one come back, but I've passed this feedback along to our NA product management team. Out of curiosity, how much dust are you getting on the floor from this?

Like said in another post, about a 1/4 teaspoon.  The dust builds up in the voids and falls off the hose end when the tool is removed.  I never had an issue with the older style.  Festool might have over engineered this part.  Please let us know if you find out anything. 

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2017, 10:23 AM »
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2680
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2017, 11:38 AM »
I'm finding the new hose end does not stay connected to the stainless floor sweep pipe or the other cleaning tools.  The old one would let me hold the pipe while picking up dust across the floor, or with a brush along baseboards.  This new one requires my hand be on the hose to keep it connected.

On the plastic hand tools like the brush or crevice tool, this new design does not give a tight seal.  Instead of all the suction going to picking up dust, there is now leakage as the new end does not seat fully in the tool opening. 

And these are Festool cleaning tools, not third party.

@TylerC suggest you try it on cleaning tools there and report back if you experience the same thing.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 11:40 AM »
Here's another discussion on the same topic.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

It's not the quantity of dust that's the issue but rather just the annoyance of having used a vac to keep things clean and tidy but then when you change sanders, it suddenly becomes white drywall dust splattered on a black rug.  [mad]

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 775
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 06:04 PM »
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55


Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 07:20 PM »
@TylerC - please tell them the peanut gallery members that aren't painters aren't really satisfied with improvement R&D has dreamt up - and that the old style needs to be CONTINUED TO BE MANUFACTURED for some time to come.  I can't say this strongly enough !

Mgmt. is ,in effect, penalizing early customers with an inferior product in the hopes of chasing a new segment. 

I'll bet you don't even have plans in the works to update things like the vac tubes/handles do you? 

And .......I'd like to know why none of this was uncovered during the research / prototype phase.  Peter H. insists that you test product before launch but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I uncovered this leaking issue on several tools withing minutes of using the new hose end , and my experience doesn't seem to be operator error or an aberration now that some others are actually starting to use these things.

So either you don't test, or you solicit the wrong folks for testing. Or, you do test, find problems and management decides the punters will just have to live with the issues ???   

None of these bodes well for a company trying to stay at the top of a competitive market.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 551
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 01:43 AM »
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 05:51 AM »
@Peter_C ...can you or anyone else confirm that this ratcheting dust bag attachment you've posted will accept the 27mm extractor hose?? I'll def grab one if so... Will stop me having to tape my current one into position.

Cheers

 @mrB yes the 27mm hose fits snugly inside the newish ratcheting attachment.

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 127
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 07:50 AM »
If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 ....

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55



I got one of these for my TS75.  It is an improvement on the original, but not perfect - the "ratchet" is pretty weak so that the hose direction does click around when you don't want it to.

Cheers



Offline scholar

  • Posts: 127
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 08:15 AM »
I am not a fan of the new ends either but if they are to be judged then it needs to be as a matched set at the end of the hose. With the bayonet connector on the hose as well as the tool I would imagine that the dust trapping would be much less. Festool set about the introduction in a quite reasonable way by providing some of the new hose ends with some of the tools (not sure if this was a one off or if is still happening).

I too have never had any issue with the old design ever coming off a tool but that design did require a little effort to get it firmly into place.

If Festool were to "solve" any hose issue with their TS saws then in my view it would be to stop the hose receptor on the TS from turning once it is set in the position that you want. Most of the time I want the receptor to be pointing up as much as it can. It is a real pain for it to then flop over and allow the hose to drag across the work surface.

Peter

Peter

Regrettably the dust trapping/spillage problem is not better when using matched ends - see the thread linked to earlier with some photos.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/new-locking-dust-fitting-leaking/msg494576/#msg494576

Moreover, the hose needs to be used with new and old style Festool tools and, yes, third party tools too:-o

Others have commented on the R&D process failure on this issue and I agree.  Having been a longtime evangelist for everything Festool, in particular the idea that clean, dust-free working was in the Festool DNA, this issue has significantly clouded my devotion - unfortunately, I am reminded of this every time I use the new connector. 

It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

[There should then be an internal enquiry into how the engineering dept was allowed to do this and a thank you to the customer base for providing all this unpaid advice and expertise!]

We can hope.

Cheers



Offline Ross 71

  • Posts: 49
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 03:59 PM »
It is a reasonable test of Festool to see what they do about it and how quickly.  We are where we are, so what would I propose?  Festool should recognise this problem - it should withdraw the new hose end connector style in favour of the old one or maybe (to save face) a newer version of the old style - it should offer a no-charge swap - it should reengineer the dust extractor ports on the new tools and revert to old style ports on older tools (if any have been changed) - it should offer a no-charge swap replacement of the port on tools bought new.

Agree completely with this proposal. I've not had this problem yet, as I've not bought anything big for a while. Trouble is I'm waiting for new stock of a domino to arrive-will it have the new fitting. Same with the sander  which I've just ordered. If my dust extractor is the old fitting and has no issues, I don't want to buy a problem. I'll have to see with the sander. If it is a problem I'll review the purchase of the domino until the issues are resolved.



[/quote]
If you need a tool and don't buy it, You will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it- Henry Ford

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 10:53 AM »
I would have thought you already knew about the "ratcheting" dust port for the TS55/TS75 that can utilize the new bayonet hose fitting. It is required when using the newer dust bag too and can be bought as a kit or separately. Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal. I have yet to get one myself and fully understand your complaint. The part is on my short list.

Festool seems to offer two part numbers?? 202096 or 10015824

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Festool-202096-4014549277195-Angled-Piece-To-Connect-Chip-Collection-Bag-To-Tsc55



Hi Peter

Thank you for pointing this out. I am in the process of fitting one and will include the detail in an upcoming "Workshop Notes" video. It seems to be stiffer to move than the standard fitting so fingers crossed.

Peter

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 97
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 11:04 PM »
I am new to Festool within the last 8 months. I had purchased a used ETS 150/3 and then the Pro 5. I can honestly say that I detest the new locking hose end. There is always dust left in the end that fall out when the hose is removed. I rarely ever lock the hose end on since it is such a pain and requires way too much effort.

I much prefer the old style friction fit. I don't see how the hose could fall off if it was pushed on all the way. Unless the hose gets snagged on something and the tool was being pulled away.

I want the old hose end for my tools.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 571
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 03:36 PM »
I've gotten a few tools with the new locking dust port.
It was generous of Festool to include the new hose end
with them.  However, they're shuffled off into a drawer.
They're not hard to figure out or anything, they just take
five times as long to connect and disconnect. 

Bottom line, it seems like nobody likes them. 


Offline wetndry

  • Posts: 47
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 05:52 PM »
Same problem here.

It is the amount that is packed in the voids. About 1/4th teaspoon.

I have the older style on my sanders except the new Pro5 (which is harder to control than my rotex) and it does drop dust unless the vacuum is on when disconnecting.  1/4 tsp is not much unless of coarse you are sanding lead paint.  The new sanders and CT extractor hoses with new style comnector may have a problem passing certification.

It may not be an issue for me as I am deciding between sending it back for repairs or return within 30 days for refund.  6 months waiting for shipment for a defective sander.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 05:55 PM by wetndry »

Offline waterloomarc

  • Posts: 107
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2017, 08:52 AM »
Yes this is the festool equivalent of the "new coke" (not sure if the folks across the pond were subjected to that abomination back in the 80's or not)

Some nitwit in a cubicle somewhere comes up with a brilliant plan to fix something that isn't broken and makes things way worse as a result.

Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2017, 09:00 AM »
"Coke was smart enough to admit their failure and reverse course...Will festool do the same and bring back the old style fittings? I have my doubts."

Yes, but it did take a while. Public pressure certainly played a role.

Doubtful, German companies are generally too arrogant to publicly admit errors.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2017, 06:54 PM »
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style. 

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1151
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 08:37 PM »
"Supposedly there is only one direction it will fit into the systainer without removal."

I recently received my TSC55 and noticed that you can't leave the hose adapter rotated
up toward the lid. If you rotate it to the side or down then you can close the lid without
interference. Or you can remove it which is what I did because most times I will be using
my saw with the dust bag and not connected to my CT36. I have not even tried connecting
to the CT yet so can't comment on how that works. There was an adapter in the box with
the saw which I assume is to connnect to the older (but in my opinion better) style hoses.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline jetset95

  • Posts: 21
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2017, 05:28 AM »
Interesting thread - I just purchased a TS 55 and it came with the new fitting, the problem (if you can call it that) is that the TS 55 is the only Festool item I own. My vac is a generic shop vac (from Wickes if you're in the UK) and I can push the new hose adapter onto the hard plastic nozzle and attach it to my TS 55. I wasn't expecting perfect dust control using this Frankenstein hybrid but it's a lot better than when I was jamming the vac tubing into the dust port of my Bosch circular saw, so overall I'm happy with this arrangement.

What I'm concerned about is how this impacts my plans to build up my small garage shop moving forwards. Here in the UK my one car garage is only about 120 square feet so I plan on building a solid workbench and mainly use hand tools where I can. The TS 55 is to manage larger sheet goods, and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.

Offline Poindexter

  • Posts: 144
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2017, 06:57 AM »
Why was it changed? 

Offline Ross 71

  • Posts: 49
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 03:09 PM »
.......and based on the performance with my cheap vac I was totally buying into the idea of more Festool tools as a means for controlling dust in my tiny space. I would only have room for one vac system, and so a CT Midi or 26 which could connect to the track saw, maybe a sander, a domino and a router seemed like a great way of limiting damaging dust while my broom could sweep up the shavings.

If I've got to switch on the vac every time I swap the hose from one tool to another, it's probably not not the end of the world if while connected, the vac and hose do their job, but if a simple rubber push on adapter works better, then even if Festool isn't Coke and I never acquire a Festool push on adapter, it's probably not too hard to imagine finding a third party one that works just as well...?

Food for thought guys, thanks for the great forum and discussions. Very helpful as I try and plan this investment.
If you have to switch on the dust vac every time, you're going to LOVE your CT Midi when you get it. After a year and half I still can't get over the thrill of the vacuum turning on and off when I start the saw. makes me chuckle every time.

Ross
If you need a tool and don't buy it, You will ultimately find that you have paid for it but don't have it- Henry Ford

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2017, 08:24 AM »
Why was it changed? 

There were some issues with the dust hose catching on the TS rail and being pulled off, also some users complained about the dust hose falling off of the routers and a few sanders.

So, the hose fitting was then re-engineered to be a twist-lock style fitting. That solution however, brought forth its own bag of gremlins.  [doh]
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 09:07 AM by Cheese »

Offline TylerC

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Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2017, 08:24 AM »
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.
This account is retired. Please address all Festool questions to @festool usa.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2017, 08:38 AM »
Any plans to fix the guide rail deflector that has been a problem since the upgrade to the twin spine variant ?

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 127
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2017, 09:56 AM »
@TylerC any news on getting the older hose ends.  I really dislike the newer style.

There aren't any plans at this point to return to the old hose ends, which provided a much less secure connection than the newer ones do.

Thanks @TylerC for engaging with us on this issue.

The "more secure" connection offered by the new design is a trivial benefit compared to the price of:

- massively increased effort to attach and remove the new connector; and
- serious dust spillage (leading to extra clean up effort, untidiness and potential hazard); and
- loss of efficiency due to air loss when using the cleaning kits (thanks @T. Ernsberger)

The new connector design also offers no benefit on the D36 hose as I understand that no D36 "Cleantec" is offered. In my case, I prefer to use the D36 with the bigger tools e.g. TS75, BS105 and OF2200 that are the most likely to lose the connector in use due to the design of the tool spigot).

Reference @Cheese comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.

Let us just examine the supposed benefits of a "more secure" connection.  When you are operating a powerful tool and the hose snags, maybe on the end of the rail or on the workbench, what would you prefer to happen:

- the hose lets go,leaving you to decide whether to continue the cut or stop and reattach; or
- the hose stays tight (and snagged) causing the tool to become unbalanced or get pulled off line?

I remain of the view that Festool have boobed here and should be big enough to take on board the feedback from the real world. Speaking for myself, I experience irritation every time I have to struggle with this flawed design, either by having to turn the vac on manually to suck up the spillage or by the unnecessary physical effort involved in fitting and removing the hose - I would suggest that the company should reflect on the negative feelings of goodwill that this irritation produces. It is not an overstatement that it has caused me to reexamine my whole view of the Festool brand (and I am pretty well invested in it!).

Cheers




« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 04:18 PM by scholar »

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2017, 10:50 AM »
@TylerC - what do the engineers have to say about the "much less secure" connection at the vacuum itself ? [scratch chin]

The system is only as good as it's weakest link, and the connection at the vacuum is not a locking fitting.  A design a lot of other vacuums already have like Bosch, Mafell, Dewalt Metabo and cheapies like Shop Vac and Ridgid even have it.  Why didn't they start there? 

I'll go out on a limb and say that more guys have experienced pulling their CT around the shop or jobsite and pulled the hose out of the vacuum body than have ever dislodged their sander from the end fitting.


This just seems like someone's pet project that met their own need , but doesn't translate into the marketplace.  A bit like Piech's VW Phaeton project.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 07:19 PM by antss »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2017, 10:59 AM »

Reference @Cheese comments: I did not read much comment about the old style connectors coming adrift, but there certainly has been a flood of complaints about the new style (even excluding my own!).  I would hope that these comments carry as much weight as the others. (I am not sure I can recall any comments praising the new design.


Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank @TylerC for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

Offline jetset95

  • Posts: 21
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2017, 11:03 AM »
Ya I agree...I think the new connector is a step backwards. I refuse to use it on my 2 vacs. I have 4 of the new hose fittings and I tossed all of them in a bucket and only use the old style fittings.

What I can't understand, is how this new fitting is even capable of being certified by OSHA for use on lead abatement projects. My guess is that it isn't or that OSHA is totally unaware of this new hose end and the contamination issues it now presents.
It makes little sense to be forced to use a HEPA vac to contain 99.99% of the particulate and then by simply changing out a sander, the particles you've so assiduously attempted to contain, can now simply fall on the ground.  [eek]

I do thank @TylerC for the update though, because I will now order either 4 or 6 of the old style hose connectors before they become unavailable.

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2017, 11:58 AM »

Do you have a link where they are available? I'd like to at least try the old style, my new TS55 only came with the adapter and I don't have a Festool Vac or Hose yet.


Actually, we've been provided this information early enough that these old 487 071 hose ends are probably still available just about everywhere.

The problem has been in the past, we were only given a heads-up on obsoleted parts months & months after the fact and through just the normal sales of product, the inventory levels were then depleted to very low levels and it became very frustrating, if not impossible to find the obsoleted items. Think...MFS, aluminum saw blades, steel saw blades, spark arrestors, router sled...

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2017, 12:43 PM »
@TylerC The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 

Offline scholar

  • Posts: 127
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2017, 04:20 PM »
@TylerC The newer hose ends do not provide a better  connection.  The older connection was a lot better and didn't result in dust falling on the floor when dissconnecting a tool.  Also the new connecter doesn't work with the cleaning kits.  I now have to wrap my hand around the connection when using the cleaning kit to prevent air loss.  It is a horrible design and I'm sure Festool spent a lot of time and money in development.  Not sure why they were trying to fix something that's not broke.  All were asking for is that the older style not be discontinued and available for sale.  Give us the option to buy the newer "improved" end or the better older end.
 

Thanks T. E.. - I knew there was a third objection, but I forgot to include it - my earlier post now updated!

Cheers


Offline magellan

  • Posts: 197
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2017, 07:13 PM »
It was mentioned that the old style is still available.  It is not as far as I have found.  I have been searching for awhile for one.  March 28 th I ordered one from Ace Tool in NY by phone.  I was told it would be shipped out in a few days.  Then I was sent an email that it was on back order    After a few emails and a phone call today i was sent an email stating they discontinued the part and would be sent the new replacement part.  I replied and declined the new part and asked for a refund.   First time using Ace Tools and it was not very good customer service to make me wait a month and I had to contact them to find out I'm still without the old style hose end.   

I personally do not like the new style hose end.   Too stiff for one thing.  Just offer both styles and the all customers are happy. 

If someone finds a cache of old style hose ends please let me know I'd like to buy one

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 338
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2017, 10:14 PM »
Antss, I'v been on that limb many times and end up pushing hard while trying to twist the connector in an attempt to make the connection not come out.  Keeping in mind the ct26 is topped with a work center with tools and is quite heavy,  I've given up trying to move it by pulling the hose. 

Have not handled the new end and thankful to have a few of the old ones on hand after hearing about  the new one.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1168
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2017, 04:33 PM »
Anyone know a way that the new DTS/RTS 400 REQ sanders can be converted to the old style hose connection? I am thinking of picking one of them up and it would be the only Festool tool I own with the new connector and I dont like what I have been reading about it and would prefer all my tools had the same.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2017, 04:55 PM »
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2017, 05:57 PM »
@Dovetail65 -

the two principle issues are that the new fitting leaks like a sieve when attached to the curved hand tubes from the cleaning sets - and - the fitting captures dust in the bayonet groves which falls all over the place when you remove it.

Guys are also peeved because this supposed "upgrade" solved a problem pretty much no one had around here.  The fitting falling off the tool.   But..................the wonks forgot or purposefully decided not to address the other end of the hose at the vacuum.  It's still not a locking fitting .   [doh]

During all this upgrading and innovation the designers and management still can't fix a real problem with their guide rail deflector that is still left over from the spare parts bin of the last generation rail.

THIRTY YEARS AGO . [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]


Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1168
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2017, 06:09 PM »
@Dovetail65 -

the two principle issues are that the new fitting leaks like a sieve when attached to the curved hand tubes from the cleaning sets - and - the fitting captures dust in the bayonet groves which falls all over the place when you remove it.

Guys are also peeved because this supposed "upgrade" solved a problem pretty much no one had around here.  The fitting falling off the tool.   But..................the wonks forgot or purposefully decided not to address the other end of the hose at the vacuum.  It's still not a locking fitting .   [doh]

During all this upgrading and innovation the designers and management still can't fix a real problem with their guide rail deflector that is still left over from the spare parts bin of the last generation rail.

THIRTY YEARS AGO . [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]


Bingo.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2017, 10:02 PM »
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.

And that's fine...what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I ordered 4 of the old ends from Uncle Bob, however they were all back ordered. I then called my local Woodcraft store and ordered 2 each of the ends and they were also backordered.

Tomorrow I will contact another local supplier and see what their inventory level is, this doesn't look good. I then have 2 other local suppliers to contact and we'll go from there.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I just dont get what the issue is with the new ends. They dont bother me at all.

And that's fine...what's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

I ordered 4 of the old ends from Uncle Bob, however they were all back ordered. I then called my local Woodcraft store and ordered 2 each of the ends and they were also backordered.

Tomorrow I will contact another local supplier and see what their inventory level is, this doesn't look good. I then have 2 other local suppliers to contact and we'll go from there.

Good luck,  I've been looking everywhere for some better older ends. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: Old/New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2017, 02:54 PM »
I stumbled upon this distributor in Utah that appears to still be offering the old 487 071 hose end for sale.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=487071
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 08:23 AM by Cheese »

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 450
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2017, 10:20 PM »
For what it’s worth I really like the locking connection. Even with dust collection dust still hits the floor and I prefer my hose not slipping out of the tool than a little dust on the floor.
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2017, 11:08 PM »
um...............we're talking about the dust that builds up inside the groves of the locking hose end and then falls out when you unlock it.

I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

I also prefer my hose connection not to leak -  which the cleantec ones do.  ::)

So, an improvement for an issue that really wasn't an issue for most users but a downgrade in two other areas - one of which is fundamental to use ?

Festool's cleantec hose end = BIG FAIL for function.   

I'll bet it's profitable though.

Offline Claimdude

  • Posts: 352
Re: Old/New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2017, 11:16 PM »
Thanks Cheese! I just ordered two of the old style ends. I too dislike the new ones.

Jack

I stumbled upon this distributor in Utah the appears to be still offering the old 487 071 hose end for sale.

https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/catalogsearch/result/?cat=0&q=487071

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2017, 08:35 AM »
I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 329
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2017, 08:44 AM »
Not that one opinion really matters, but I just wanted to let my opinion be known to Festool ...
I really hate the new hose end and dust ports on the new tools.

In fact I hate them so much I've sourced a few of the old hose ends and dust ports and switched them out on my HK55 & HK85.
I was planning to buy some ETS sanders as well, but I refuse to get them because of that retarded dust port design.

At the very least, you've lost a couple of sales with me because of this silly dust port/hose end design.
Just wanted to voice my opinion that I won't be buying anything with that new dust port design on them, so I guess it looks like I'm done buying Festool.
Good thing I've already got so much gear from back when they hadn't lost their mind at Festool yet.

The locking hose implementation is a bad design. It plain terrible. I personally hate it enough not to buy any more of your tools. Period.
There...
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2017, 10:27 AM »
Not that one opinion really matters, but I just wanted to let my opinion be known to Festool ...
I really hate the new hose end and dust ports on the new tools.

The locking hose implementation is a bad design. It plain terrible. I personally hate it enough not to buy any more of your tools. Period.
There...

Maybe a shout-out to @TylerC would be appropriate at this time so that he can relay this information to Festool corporate.  [smile]

As an aside, I stopped at Woodcraft yesterday and noticed the latest DF 700 and Rotex 125 demo models both had the new dust ports with the dust catching recesses.  [crying]

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 1084
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2017, 05:55 PM »

Maybe a shout-out to @TylerC would be appropriate at this time so that he can relay this information to Festool corporate.  [smile]

Yep, I’m following along and will make sure that the right people see the feedback. It’s always good to get these sorts of constructive responses. Thanks, all.
This account is retired. Please address all Festool questions to @festool usa.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2017, 08:20 PM »
I’m not a fan of the new Festool Hose Ends but it’s not a battle worth fighting.  I have now learned to run the vac when switching between tools,  if not the dust trapped in the voids falls onto the ground.  My thing is that I wish Festool would offer both options and let us decide on the ends that we want to use.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2017, 09:25 PM »
I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.

On the ATF you needed to insert the end inside the casting on the saw. There was a little ridge that engaged in the groove close to the end of the hose connector as I recall. It was a lot of engineering to a problem that had a much simpler solution.   It wasn't ideal, but wasn't bad enough that it pulled out during every use.  It was also the days of the single spine rails that had a deflector that spanned the entire rail so that the hose /cord didn't snag in the uncovered spine.

Tyler is aware of these issues and has relayed the info before, if I recall correctly.   Management has turned a blind eye again.   Tyler et al, just make the old style connector available again and you'll satisfy all parties at very little to no cost to you.

Wonder where Kapex stands in the que to receive the cleantec fitting ?   [big grin]

T - you have three hands? Otherwise that is a royal PitA
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 09:28 PM by antss »

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 182
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2017, 09:31 PM »
I have a sander with the old connection, bought just prior to the changeover, and a saw purchased post change with the new connection. I agree with the comments that the left over dust in the locking grooves is an annoyance. To me, the locking end seems to address a problem that didn't really need to be solved. I've not found it to be a particular benefit for the saw, with the downside of some trapped dust.

OTH, I am looking forward to being able to buy the newly announced sleeved hose with the remote switch.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2017, 09:43 PM »
I’m not a fan of the new Festool Hose Ends but it’s not a battle worth fighting.  I have now learned to run the vac when switching between tools,  if not the dust trapped in the voids falls onto the ground.  My thing is that I wish Festool would offer both options and let us decide on the ends that we want to use.

Bingo... it’s all about options. What’s wrong with that? Some like the 125 sanders, some like the 150 sanders, some like the 1010 router, some like the 1400 router. Some like the old hose end, some like the new hose end. It may have been a good idea at the time, however, it didn't work out like it was supposed to so...just move on.

Run new ends and old ends, market them both and go on from there. It's only 1 extra part number in the vast sea of 10,000 Festool part numbers.  Festool already owns the tooling for the old hose end so that costs nothing. 
 
Sometimes when you put a customer in a headlock while also applying a knife to the solar plexus, the final result just doesn’t quite work out the way the marketeers thought it would.  [doh]
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 10:10 AM by Cheese »

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 450
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2017, 10:49 PM »
I don’t have a 36 mm hose so I have to use the inside ports. So on my 1400 and TS I had struggled with them popping out from time to time. I don’t have a problem with any of my sanders or the of1010 with either connection.

There is some build up in the TS and 1400 connections. I am actually looking for the new locking 1400 dust shroud.

I prefer that my hose not slip out of the tool too, but haven't had a problem with the older end except on the the ATF55 which had a rectangular aluminum fitting.

Just curious...do you insert the hose end fully over the dust port? I have the RS 2, the DX 93 and the OF 1010 which all have the rectangular dust port. I've never had an issue with the hose falling off of any of them.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 10:55 PM by blaszcsj »
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 571
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2017, 04:12 AM »
The memory of my antistatic hoses love to drag my routers to the concrete floor
if they're not secured when set aside.  The depth gauges are all broken, but the hose has never disconnected  [big grin]

However, the "upgraded" tools I've bought (the updated ets, rts and dts) all have
caked in schmoo on the dust port, and they spit dust all up into the air and up nosey nose when switching out.  [cool]

I dunno, maybe someone up on a roof is totally benefitting?








Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 429
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2017, 04:39 AM »
I think we can all agree the new connectors are terrible in their current form. Aside from being too stiff (needs to be a softer composition), how can we fix the collection in the recesses?

How about a strategically drilled 1/8" hole in the recesses? Should do the trick. I'm betting we all have a few of these to experiment on.

It would be wonderful to have a fixed connector show up in the mail free of charge but in the meantime let's just figure out a work around.
@matts.garage

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2017, 08:10 PM »
I think we can all agree the new connectors are terrible in their current form. Aside from being too stiff (needs to be a softer composition), how can we fix the collection in the recesses?

How about a strategically drilled 1/8" hole in the recesses? Should do the trick. I'm betting we all have a few of these to experiment on.

It would be wonderful to have a fixed connector show up in the mail free of charge but in the meantime let's just figure out a work around.

I hate to be a stick in the mud but, why should I have to rube goldberg a brand new dust fitting to keep from spilling dust ?   

And from a company that touts itself as a pioneer in dust collection for hand tools ?

And what are we 'sposed to do about the leakage ?    Duct tape ?  ::) 

That'll sure fix it in a hurry .  And I bet if if I take 1/2 an hour to search, I can find some in Festool navy and green so it's all ghetto fab matchy matchy.  [crying]'

The easiest and simplest would be to bring back the old ones for those that want them.   [poke]

My guess is that FT OEMs them from someone anyway.  Simply requires a phone call to make it happen.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 10:16 PM by antss »

Offline James Biddle

  • Posts: 162
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2018, 08:12 PM »
Does anyone here remember an example of when Festool listened to the complaints posted on this site?  Do you remember them even responding, let alone made changes?  Hose ends, Kapex, Imperial/Metric, more holes in sandpaper, this latest promotion where you need to send in a tool to ring the bell, etc. 

We believe that Tyler fed our complaints up to corporate.  Have we ever heard back from corporate on any issue?

When the quality slips, innovation dries up, and the cost remains high, they then have to compete with every other company.  If it's no longer a system, it's a bunch of tools that have to compete with every other company.  Companies that continue to innovate and fill the voids Festool created for itself. 

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2018, 10:26 AM »
Does anyone here remember an example of when Festool listened to the complaints posted on this site? 

I'm still waiting for a response to the Kapex issue that Festool actually solicited.   [dead horse]

I think that was about 2 years ago.  [sad]

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 329
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2018, 11:17 AM »
I cannot express in words how much I hate the new hose ends and tool connections.
One thing is for sure, I will die before I buy a tool with that connection.

Love the smooth hoses, but absolutely hate the connectors.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 11:22 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 551
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2018, 04:57 PM »
I can think of a few examples, off hand, where Festool seemed to listen to the customers.  But I'm hesitant to mention them because I feel they are increasingly NOT listening. But I do believe the below products were released or altered due to customer feedback. . .

CT SYS release
13mm chuck upgrade on CXS
Smooth hoses introduced (and the pervious hose covers)
Vac SYS in USA finally
Compact 18v Batteries
Compact Battery Drill sets
 
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 778
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2018, 08:48 PM »

Some nitwit in a cubicle somewhere comes up with a brilliant plan to fix something that isn't broken and makes things way worse as a result.


Probably one of those new "User Experience Designers" that seem to be popping up everywhere.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 429
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2018, 04:03 PM »
@Cheese

This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter. Hope this helps.







@matts.garage

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1751
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2018, 04:29 PM »
Does anyone here remember an example of when Festool listened to the complaints posted on this site? 
I'm still waiting for a response to the Kapex issue that Festool actually solicited.
I think that was about 2 years ago.
Very unfortunate. What other tool maker has such a vibrant forum dedicated to a single brand?
FOG is a gold mine of ideas and user feedback in a single place.
What is the point for Festool to run and own this forum if they don't utilize it for self improvement?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 04:33 PM by Svar »

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1168
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2018, 04:37 PM »
@Cheese

This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter. Hope this helps.








Thats pretty cool, but other than converting the new hoses to the old style connectors (which I agree is way better) what else might one use this adapter for?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2018, 06:51 PM »
This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter.

Thanks for that @DynaGlide   🙏

That’s a pretty clever solution to an aggravating situation.  [big grin]

Just curious if the Festool reducer is also a 2-piece unit?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1751
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2018, 07:17 PM »
This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter.
Festool forgot to "improve" those. Better move quick.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 429
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2018, 07:47 PM »
The best part is Festool can't really stop this since they don't make this part. They repackage a Nilfisk adapter and charge a handsome fee.
@matts.garage

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1168
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2018, 05:15 PM »
The best part is Festool can't really stop this since they don't make this part. They repackage a Nilfisk adapter and charge a handsome fee.
They do that with quite a few of their vacuum accessories and parts I found. Nice once you find the equivalents and pick them up for 1/4 the cost!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2019, 10:35 PM »
So if you're thinking the dreadful new Festool hose connection is going away any time soon, better think again.

I visited Woodcraft yesterday and noticed all of the demo tools now have the new bayonet style hose connection. All 3 Rotexes, the jig saws, the new sanders and both Dominos. Even this older style ETS 150 with a cast aluminum body has been changed to the new version.  [crying] [crying] [crying]


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 581
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2019, 07:15 AM »
I think the not listening to customers thing, is quite common the more a company evolves, progresses or expands etc?
I have suppliers that I first started using 30 + years ago, some are bigger and better than ever, and value and listen to customer feedback, and wherever they can, will act on it.
The other side of the coin are, companies that start off small and are very hands on with their customer wants and needs, and the innovation largely fed by customers grows, and with it the company.
Then these companies get a little complacent, even too big for their boots sometimes, and instead of continuing to listen to customers, they are more concerned with fending off the competition, often cost cutting too.

As we know, often really good or great successful companies, at some stage are controlled by the bean counters reports and advice. It makes for great profit margins, and provides nice bonuses but, the customer is always king, and the companies that remember this, are the survivors.

I don't know if Festool are no longer listening to customers feedback, and are now caught up in the race for top spot in business? and neither would I suggest so but, they have expanded a great deal, and in the last two or three years I hear a lot more disgruntled Festool customer stories than I used to. That could be down to percentages etc, the more customers you have, the more chance there is of some being upset.

You could say the same for other tool manufacturers but, and it's a big but, most of the other manufacturers have more realistic price tags.
I bought some new Festool yesterday, along with some must have accessories, and a couple of times I found myself wincing after hitting the "Buy" button. So to cheer myself up, I remembered how great the tools are, and the superb customer service and how they look after their customers.
So perhaps they just need to start listening a little more?  [wink]

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2019, 08:31 AM »
@Jiggy Joiner , I know that what I am writing might be seen as being tainted because I am a Moderator here, but it is offered without any prejudice.

Festool is absolutely a bigger company than it was when I got my first tool.  Once the ship gets bigger it does become less nimble.  Product development - especially when you are talking about development for hundreds of countries - takes time and investigation in advance.  We are talking about years here.

Festool does listen and is constantly out there in the real world collecting insight from their tool users.  It is commonplace for example to send out a team for an extended period of time with a product in development and take that to users for their input.  I know this to be true because I have met such team members and spoken to them.

There are members here on the forum who have been visited and involved.  I can't speak to their experiences directly other than to say they appreciated the experience and noticed the extensive note taking.

There are focus groups.  There are those who are constantly reading the comments on the internet including what is written here.  There are the direct messages and communion with Festool.

I certainly have read about the dislike by some for the new locking ends on the hoses.  I am sure that Festool is listening.  But I will offer my opinion that the development of the locking ends came as a result of comments previously received about the smooth hose connections coming loose.

I would urge those who have thoughts about how to improve a Festool product to offer their thoughts.  But also realize that just because they don't see an immediate result doesn't mean that the comments went unheard.

Offered constructively,

Peter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 581
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2019, 09:41 AM »
Hi Peter, No not tainted in any way, in fact your post is reassuring, well at least to me anyway  [thumbs up]

I am a long time tradesmen, and obviously like many that have been in the game a long time, have seen vast developments, mostly in a positive way, and some negative. I also understand as I mentioned, that things change when a company expands, this also brings a mix of both positive and negative with it.
I have certainly noticed more customers voicing their frustrations with Festool nowadays. If you hear people moaning about something, especially non customers or non buyers of a brand, that's no so important to me, as it might be hearsay, gossiping or sour grapes etc. However, when I hear customers, and owners of a brand voicing concern, I certainly take more notice.

I love the whole Festool arrangement, and the tools, my bills and receipts in the last two months for Festool would confirm this but, that's not to say Festool are perfect, or I don't get a little frustrated at times, just the same with other manufacturers I buy from.

As a positive, I spoke to Festool UK cutomer service yesterday, to a very nice lady, who dealt with my enquiry in a cheerful and polite manner. The result of the conversation, was me buying more Festool yesterday.
So overall, I'm happy but, at the prices, I should be  [wink]

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 329
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2019, 09:54 AM »
I have voiced my objections and concerns about the new locking connections on just about every occasion.
For me it's very simple. I am done with Festool. I'm glad I bought all my Festool tools before the change. But if or when they break, they will be replaced with another brand.
I HATE the new connectors so bad. It's very simply a truely terrible design. It makes the tools a hassle to use instead of a pleasure. And let's be honest here, their real purpose is just another way of vendor lock-in.

I'm sure Festool does go out to a jobsite to talk to people, but you'll never convince me in a million years they go out and talk with a lot of us. And obviously, they are going out and talking to the wrong people. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody I have talked to since these atrocious things came out thinks these are better than what we had before.

Since even the castings on all the tools have now been f'ed up I've lost any hope of Festool seeing the light.
You're done selling me tools with that connection.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:05 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 362
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Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2019, 10:03 AM »
@

Festool does listen and is constantly out there in the real world collecting insight from their tool users.  It is commonplace for example to send out a team for an extended period of time with a product in development and take that to users for their input.  I know this to be true because I have met such team members and spoken to them.

There are members here on the forum who have been visited and involved.  I can't speak to their experiences directly other than to say they appreciated the experience and noticed the extensive note taking.

I have had such a visit as Peter described regarding a new tool that was/is still in development.

Their visit and questions & answers were very informative and after the guys left i felt both they and I came away feeling something had been achieved.

A few days later, I received a letter from the guys thanking me for the time I'd taken and input I'd provided them with. Along with the letter were a few items/gifts as a thank you.

All in, a positive experience. [thumbs up]

Edit. It was not a tool with dust extraction on it, as I do not like the new D/E ports either...!!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:06 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Online DeformedTree

  • Posts: 530
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2019, 10:05 AM »
So I came into things post the change. Hoses, tools, etc are all the "new design',   my TS55 did have what I would take to be the old, I bought the replacement part that makes it match the rest.  I did not like the original design my few times using the saw with it, the hose would come off.

I'm not sure what the issue is that people have with the "new", I suppose it could be a bit easier to get on. Of course I was using the tools for a while before I even realized there is a twist aspect too it.

I'm not sure its the design I would have developed. I probably would have liked something like some couplings have where the tools have a 360 degree groove, and the hoses have 2 buttons 180 apart, when you let go 2 nubs stick in, these fit to the groove,  so now the hose can spin on the fitting, but it held on, removing/installing hose is an easy operation butting the buttons on the hose and letting go, simple one hand operation.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2019, 11:15 AM »

I'm not sure what the issue is that people have with the "new", I suppose it could be a bit easier to get on. Of course I was using the tools for a while before I even realized there is a twist aspect too it.


For me it's always been the flat areas on the new connector gather a lot of dust and when you disconnect the hose, most of this dust drops on the floor. In my case it was white drywall dust on a black wool rug.  [crying]

Here's a shot comparing a new Pro 5 and an older style connection on an ETS EC 125. Both sanders were used on the same job and for approximately the same amount of time. The flat area on the bottom of the new connector has already jettisoned it's drywall dust on the floor  (you can see some of it on the base of the sander and some on the pad) while the other 2 flats on the new connector are at the ready to dump theirs if the sander is bumped.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 10:11 AM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6022
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2019, 12:14 PM »
I don't understand why they just don't make all the tool connections like the one of the Rotex and the ETS EC pictured above. They are always rock solid thanks to the extra length. Even with older nozzles that got a bit sloppy.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 329
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2019, 12:52 PM »
I don't understand why they just don't make all the tool connections like the one of the Rotex and the ETS EC pictured above. They are always rock solid thanks to the extra length. Even with older nozzles that got a bit sloppy.
Vendor lock-in. Just like for example Apple uses lightning cables instead of USB for the iPhone/iPad. It's not 1 to 1 the same, but still, same principle. Encourage / nudge consumers to buy your other products as well.
By using this style connector it will work "best/better" with festool hoses and vacuums instead of just any other vacuum. It's to subtly encourage/push people to buy cleantec extractors, hoses and connectors. Push people to buy into "the system". Which will then encourage/nudge them to buy another Festool if they need to buy another kind of tool. Because, well they already have the Festool vacuum with the weird connector. It's probably best to buy another Festool, because that will connect best...

But i totaly agree with you. They should have just made a sublte change to the dust ports, with 1 or more ridges and everything would have been fine...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 12:56 PM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1168
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2019, 02:29 PM »
So glad I was able to get all the Festool tools I wanted that have dust collection ports on them right before they switched them all over to the new style!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 208
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2019, 03:17 PM »
 On another annoying note, I purchased a 2nd generation hose (white wrapped hose)...while the new twist lock end is not a problem since my tools don't have the twist lock feature, the vacuum end is also different (with internal ribs), so that it doesn't fit over the intake of my Dust Deputy....this hose won't get used

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4013
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2019, 03:28 PM »
As long as we’re complaining about hose ends, and the Dust Deputy has been brought up, why is the input port on the DD tapered smaller instead of bigger? The downstream end of a hose should fit into rather than over that port. When you pull the input hose off the DD a ring of dust falls off the DD port.

If the DD input port was tapered out instead of in that sleeved Festool hose would fit right in as is.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 501
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2019, 05:09 PM »
Well it would seem that Festool has seen the light and is now selling the old style hose adapter after all.



It will be offered in a presentation box along with a 18 volt impact screwdriver and a redesigned Kapex armature... Germany only though.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 581
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2019, 08:11 PM »
 [blink]

Online DeformedTree

  • Posts: 530
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2019, 11:20 PM »

Here's a shot comparing a new Pro 5 and an older style connection on an ETS EC 125. Both sanders were used on the same job and for approximately the same amount of time. The flat area on the bottom of the new connector has already jettisoned it's drywall dust on the floor while the other 2 flats on the new connector are at the ready to dump theirs if the sander is bumped.

(Attachment Link)

But it has "cleantech" molded right into it, therefore it's a clean technology, or are you implying the name of the product does not as a matter of fact state it's reality and in fact it might just be ironic?


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6125
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #88 on: March 15, 2019, 01:33 AM »
But it has "cleantech" molded right into it, therefore it's a clean technology, or are you implying the name of the product does not as a matter of fact state it's reality and in fact it might just be ironic?

Ya I got a chuckle from that one when I looked at it.  How macabre...

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1151
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2019, 12:24 PM »
On another annoying note, I purchased a 2nd generation hose (white wrapped hose)...while the new twist lock end is not a problem since my tools don't have the twist lock feature, the vacuum end is also different (with internal ribs), so that it doesn't fit over the intake of my Dust Deputy....this hose won't get used

I noticed the same with the hose I recently bought. ticked me off. I will get a replacement hose end (from someone other than FT) so I can use the hose but won't bother buying any future Festool hoses that are incompatible with my current vacs, tools,  and hoses.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 338
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2019, 02:59 PM »
Loving my new smooth hoses!  I don't have any of the new twist lock tools and actually thought that the new hose end might be ok.  That was until this morning in the shop when the hose falls off the mfk700..  I thought maybe it wasn't pushed on all the way, which it wasn't because the new connector will not allow it to. What a rediculus improvement, reminds me of "New Coke"  that no one liked.  At least Coke changed the flavor back to "Classic" .    Now I'm on the "I  hate them" train but I sure love the new smooth hose which unfortunately will leave me with many of the new worthless connectors.

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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4013
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #91 on: March 15, 2019, 03:27 PM »
Have not bought a soda in a decade or so but just learned that Coke has a new flavor, Orange Vanilla. Might buy one to taste it. Kinda reminds me of Dr. Pepper (which I used to like) but in the opposite direction.

Bought a new smooth hose and have no idea how to connect it to my old ATF 55 or even older AT 65, but I do like that it fits over the port of those tools it’s able to fit rather than into the port as the hose does on the old saws.

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 338
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #92 on: March 15, 2019, 06:09 PM »
The new 36mm hose connector is virtually the same as before, its the 27mm  that is so whacked....  I only use the larger hose on the saws and then add a short whip (27mm on both ends) to connect to sanders and routers. 

I did find early on that the 27mm hose did not like to stay connected to the atf55 or the ts55, hence I just use the 36mm on saws, OF1400, and for floor cleaning.