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Author Topic: Power issues  (Read 2507 times)

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Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Power issues
« on: April 23, 2017, 04:48 PM »
Hi chaps iv had festool stuff now for about 6 month. Iv got the planer and the hk55
Does anyone know why they struggle when being ran through a cable reel? Its like festool doesn't get on site your more than likely to be running power tools through leads. They just cut out even when just cutting 18mm mdf. Not so much with the smaller planer but the hk55 and my mate ts55 hate being ran through leads. Maybe its because they are 110v im not sure.

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Online GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Power issues
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 05:31 PM »
Manufacturer doesn't really come in to this; every tool (everything) will be affected by a voltage drop when you are using a long extension cable.

There are two pieces of advice that flow from your circumstances. The first is to make sure you are using a good quality, appropriately sized transformer. The second is to make sure your cables are as short as practical, but if you do need long cables for some reason, try to make the long cable length the 240V connection to the transformer rather than the 110V connection from the transformer to the tool.

Hope this helps.
[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

UK and Southern Ireland Members  |  Supplemental Manuals  |  Festool Links  |  Festool UK Spare Parts

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 05:35 PM »
Yeah that will work on private jobs but on the shops and large commercial jobs its not really possible. Dewalt and blue bosch don't really seem to struggle. Just festool.

Online GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Power issues
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 05:57 PM »
What are the Dewalt and blue Bosch models that don't suffer the same issues? Might help to narrow down any other potential circumstances causing your power issue.
[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

UK and Southern Ireland Members  |  Supplemental Manuals  |  Festool Links  |  Festool UK Spare Parts

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 06:04 PM »
I have the big dewalt chopsaw and the bosch palm router. I also run the large dewalt router which to be fair can struggle but the other 2 dont seem to. Its a 25 metre cable real i use. The hk 55 is marketed as a roofing saw and every roof iv worked on is ran through leads. The hk55 works perfectly when i use the thin blade it comes with but not when i uses the slightly thicker higher toothed blade for cutting bar top which is 44mm ash

Offline antss

  • Posts: 842
Re: Power issues
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 07:22 PM »
"he hk55 works perfectly when i use the thin blade it comes with but not when i uses the slightly thicker higher toothed blade for cutting bar top which is 44mm ash"

 [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek] [eek]

yep - you're gonna experience power issues doing that .  Ash is pretty hard.  Adding a thicker kerf blade to the 55 and cutting at it's depth capacity is going to strain that tool.  More teeth exacerbates the problem.

Garry is on track with the electrics.

That said, I've always wondered if Festool engineering is just a bit behind when it comes to 110V motors.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3551
Re: Power issues
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2017, 12:40 AM »
Manufacturer doesn't really come in to this; every tool (everything) will be affected by a voltage drop when you are using a long extension cable.

There are two pieces of advice that flow from your circumstances. The first is to make sure you are using a good quality, appropriately sized transformer. The second is to make sure your cables are as short as practical, but if you do need long cables for some reason, try to make the long cable length the 240V connection to the transformer rather than the 110V connection from the transformer to the tool.

Hope this helps.

The third piece of advice is is if #1 and #2 are not possible, then use a fatter gauge extension lead. (Which was implicitly implied)

Online GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Power issues
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2017, 04:08 AM »
The third piece of advice is is if #1 and #2 are not possible, then use a fatter gauge extension lead. (Which was implicitly implied)

Good point to make more clear @Holmz - thanks for that.

As the issue is voltage drop, and the voltage drop is lessened as the cable cross-sectional size increases, a "thicker" cable could help. The following is from https://www.industrialextensionleads.co.uk/maximum-extension-lead-length-3-w.asp and provides some good information that might help you.


[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

UK and Southern Ireland Members  |  Supplemental Manuals  |  Festool Links  |  Festool UK Spare Parts

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2017, 02:25 PM »
Cheers chaps i think ill buy a fatter lead. I do think they need to pay more attention to 110v users i mean no domino xl in 110 no ts75 or the big router all useful things for site workers

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2017, 02:28 PM »
Or hk85 for that matter lol that would be brilliant in 110

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3551
Re: Power issues
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 03:48 PM »
Post #1 Was about the current 110v tools not working because of the voltage drop, and that the Bosch were better.
In the latest post you want more tools available in 110v.

The fatter lead I followed.

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2017, 12:08 PM »
I think festool products work better in 240v than 110 that was my point
 The fact they dont do some things in 110v show they don't really concentrate on site workers
The fatter lead doesn't work because i tried it this morning and its not and better.

Online GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Power issues
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2017, 01:33 PM »
The fatter lead doesn't work because i tried it this morning and its not and better.

If the cable has made no difference, what's the transformer you are using? Is it possible to try the same combination of cables and tools on a different transformer? How many tools are plugged into the transformer and in use at the same time? Is the HK 55 connected to an extractor and then into the transformer? What if you plug direct in to the transformer (or the cable from the transformer)?

Does the Dewalt and Bosch kit have the same advanced electronics and speed control? Just wondering whether the Festool tools are "protecting themselves" by slowing things down rather than pushing the motor too hard and the Dewalt/Bosch don't have that intelligence built-in?
[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

UK and Southern Ireland Members  |  Supplemental Manuals  |  Festool Links  |  Festool UK Spare Parts

Online rdr

  • Posts: 38
Re: Power issues
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2017, 04:14 PM »
This thread is timley

I ran (or tried to run) my TS55 up the field on about 50m of extension from an outbuilding at the weekend and it didn't like it. First time it stuttered then it just didn't work,  I simply put it down to the poor voltage and the digital speed controller in the tool protecting itself which I actually admired (I'm a geek). I shouldn't really have been using such fine tool for what I was but was just using my new toy  :) so thought no more about it and broke out the 10 year old analogue Dewalt saw which worked perfectly.

Could see it causing problems for trades people on site though.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3551
Re: Power issues
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2017, 04:54 PM »
...
I shouldn't really have been using such fine tool for what I was but was just using my new toy  :) so thought no more about it and broke out the 10 year old analogue Dewalt saw which worked perfectly.

Could see it causing problems for trades people on site though.

Oh the nuance [wink]

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2017, 05:18 PM »
Its a 3.3 kva tranny running a ctm26 e ac with the hk plugged in. Sometimes it extended buy a 25 m cable real the extractor is fine the hk does not like it at all its less noticeable with the planer but it is impared. My bocsh gfk600 and dewalt dw717xps ran through the extractor are both fine

Offline antss

  • Posts: 842
Re: Power issues
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2017, 10:45 PM »
Chippy, you might try importing those tools from a U.S. Source.

All of them are available here in 120v which should be fine on site xformers.

NAIGB - not available in Great Britian ??? Will it catch on ? [unsure]

Online GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1559
Re: Power issues
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2017, 02:35 AM »
Its a 3.3 kva tranny running a ctm26 e ac with the hk plugged in. Sometimes it extended buy a 25 m cable real the extractor is fine the hk does not like it at all its less noticeable with the planer but it is impared. My bocsh gfk600 and dewalt dw717xps ran through the extractor are both fine

I don't think I can really help much more.

You're pushing the boundaries for the advanced electronics by running both the extractor and saw through a 3.3kVA transformer at the end of a 25m cable. If you can't change that situation (larger transformer and/or shorter extension) then maybe less "intelligent" tools are the way to go for your circumstances.
[NOTE: Tools from other manufacturers are of course available. As this is the Festool Owners Group, I tend to limit my advice to the tools that Festool sell, and assume that you've come to this site to get advice on Festool tools and because the level of skill and experience of the community here outstrips most you'll find elsewhere. If you *are* interested in tools from other manufacturers, please mention it in your post and also take the time to visit their user forums too.]

UK and Southern Ireland Members  |  Supplemental Manuals  |  Festool Links  |  Festool UK Spare Parts

Offline Big G

  • Posts: 35
Re: Power issues
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2017, 04:00 AM »
Chippydan28, Our Company has been using Festo,Festool and Protool since the 80's and in the past 5 years or so have all concluded that Festool seems to have gone for the "DIYer in his garage" type of customers, something that can be verified by the fact that 99 percent of people on this site are now in that category. Take a look at their latest additions, a vacuum for your wife, a site radio for your garage only, an extension in the form of a systainer all fit in with the look, they can stack all their as new tools and show them off to their friends.
FACT their saws are underpowered and protected to the point that they become unusable on anything other than plywood, I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel when they used "HK" in front of their new saws but they have turned out to have the same problems as their other saws, the 85 looked promising but feels underpowered compared to the 132 even though they claim to have the same power.
Their drills are over protected and now more than 10 years after Hilti introduced their AS battery chargers, Festool have introduced them, lets hope this is a sign they are re-entering the professional market and will again start producing indestructible non protected POWER tools and not toys as the majority of the members on here refer to them.
It is also a fact that their current tools that are still good are from the Festo and Protool range and lets hope they leave them alone, a perfect example of this is the DR18, on a 10 year old Protool it drills holes, on a new Festool it beeps and stops.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3551
Re: Power issues
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2017, 07:24 AM »
There is not much nuance in that post.

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 04:51 PM »
Yeah I totally agree. The systainers are good but most of the tools are a bit flimsy

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2017, 06:08 PM »
For £700 pounds on an m rated extractor and £400 on a saw i shouldn't be pushing any boundaries or it should just work flawlessly if I hadn't used them so much id bring them back. What doesn't help is all the fan boys on YouTube. Maffel dont have the same issues neither do hilti. Has anybody used the sword saw ? Does that have the same problem. Because it would be great for me when i do my oak framed porches. Im using a makita circular saw at the minute

Offline Big G

  • Posts: 35
Re: Power issues
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 04:34 AM »
We tried out a sword saw and was very impressed with its capability, used it for cutting to length 330 x 160 Douglas fir beams, never missed a beat and it was used all day for almost a month, problem is, as with all chainsaws, you have to keep the blade sharp otherwise it struggles and it costs a small fortune in replacement blades. Maybe when the time arrives we will buy a couple but at the moment we are into the mafell 260 sword saw which is a monster of a machine but 3 or 4 times the price of the festool, other point to consider is ripping, with the standard blade it is hard work but from memory the rep told us they do a special blade for ripping although I would say the problem was with the power of the tool not the blade.

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2017, 03:12 PM »
Iv got a chainsaw  and an alaskan mil for mill oak trees. For ripping just file the teeth at 10 degrees. Can you not refile the festool chain ? Look at the granberg chain shapener it a little 12volt filing machine it's about £70 its the best tool ever. Iv been considering the maffel portable bandsaw buy I thought id try the sword saw as its way cheaper

Offline Big G

  • Posts: 35
Re: Power issues
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2017, 09:51 AM »
Festool chains can be resharpened but for the project we used it on we just changed the chain when it dulled, probably used 10 plus chains a day, it takes literally minutes to change the blade and all the used chains were resharpened by our tool professor every day, not a job i would want to do anyway. Don't  have the same trouble with Mafell as they provide us with CT chaînes which last for months. Although we didn't use Festool chains the ones we used lasted for 5 or so sharpening sessions after which the prof said they were useless. Our business is a heavy user of chain saws so having CT chaînes is a must and the cost of replacement chaînes with the Festool saw is something you have to calculate, especially if you use the Festool chaînes which were about 3 times the cost of our chaînes.

Offline Chippydan28

  • Posts: 11
Re: Power issues
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2017, 10:16 AM »
I guess as i would only be using it occasionally the festool would be ok ( i dont do that many porches ) have you got any experience with the maffel portable bandsaw by any chance ?