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Author Topic: RO 150 plug-it design fault  (Read 12499 times)

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Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
RO 150 plug-it design fault
« on: August 16, 2012, 07:35 AM »
Hello folks,

Using my RO 150 this morning it started cutting out.I cleaned the contacts twice on the tool and the cord but it continued to cut out with a slight blackening of one of the  electrodes in the tool.

So I cleaned it again and replaced the cord for a new one. Same thing happened.

I 've already replaced a burnt out  plug-it once when using the RO150 about a year ago. Searching  the forum it seems the RO 150 is susceptible to this problem probably because it's used continuously fairly frequently?

Before anyone says it, yes the plug-it was fully turned and seated correctly as it always has been.

Seems a design fault on the RO 150 to me as I don't have the same problem on any other tool. It is probably my most used tool though.

So I think I need to replace the socket on the tool .

The best bit is it is exactly one month out of guarantee to the day!

I really need it just now [crying]. Has anyone replaced this item themselves?


Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Dovetail65

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 09:40 PM »
I don't get it, are some of these just lemons? Are the newer ones made differently? Mine has never had one issue and I used the heck out of it.  Mine is about 3 years old.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 12:36 AM »
Mines 3 years and one month! It occurs to me now that maybe it's the action of sanding that stresses the connections?

Offline ward

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2012, 10:22 PM »
Had the same problem after a few years with my ets 150 had to buy a new cord, got a female from my rep. Buy the thicker cords, they will reduce the problem some. . . Good luck getting Festoo/Tooltec to step up on this, their cords are too small gauge for the load/time usage. Trying to save money sacrifices quality. I never thought they would do this kind of thing but just compare the gauge wire to other high end tools and your see. . .

Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 01:08 AM »
Might be wrong but I think the cords are all the same thickness in Europe - seems to be an American thing.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2012, 11:41 PM »
Had the same problem after a few years with my ets 150 had to buy a new cord, got a female from my rep. Buy the thicker cords, they will reduce the problem some. . . Good luck getting Festoo/Tooltec to step up on this, their cords are too small gauge for the load/time usage. Trying to save money sacrifices quality. I never thought they would do this kind of thing but just compare the gauge wire to other high end tools and your see. . .


Some yes, some no.....

My Bosch rotary hammer, Milwaukee Sawzall and 1/2" D handle drill all have 18ga cords.  My PC7518 has a 14ga.

Festool heavier cord is 16ga , lighter is 18ga.

Seth

Offline ward

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 02:07 AM »
I wonder how much of this has to do with the price of copper. Upon reflection I do see that even the internal wiring on my 220 sanders is far smaller gauge that the supply cords (10 gauge). It's pretty clear that the internal wiring of tools has gotten smaller over the years, weather this is due to higher efficiency or the cost of copper i have no idea.  from what I know of Festool, they go to any length to meet their design specifications; even bringing parts like bearing manufacture in house as no one else was making good enough bearings in their size i am told. . . Yet how rationally and how long term life these specifications are set is another issue.

As a wanna be engineer i tend to overbuild structures, and I like to imagine my tools are as well. When living / working  in earthquake tsunami country this approach has paid off. The supply cords for some of the heavier Festools do have lower gauge cords I've been told. I'm looking for the specific examples, but I think the TS 55/57 plug-it cord is 16 gauge (heavier than the 18 gauge)ETS 125 finish sander, which makes sense until you run that sander through the thin gauge wiring harness of the dust collector which is not even 14 gauge (considering it's handling up to 12? amps for 8 hours straight I'd like to see heavier wire harness on these, then your tool is plugged into that, it's inevitable something is going to give i think. That it's the plug it cord is just one point, I wonder if people have experience with the AC plug harness and relay burning out and melting down?

Please show me I'm wrong. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I watch 10 gauge 220 volt cords and plugs at 15 amps @ 120 volts melt all the time on 100' runs on heavy loads (12 & 36 grit) running floor sanders on a long hot workday, these "bridges' of  power should be over engineered IMHO to give lifetime of professional tool power supply in the most demanding environments and circumstances like long hot workdays plugged into the dust collectors and running 7 -9 hours.

I've been told the tools have been tested far beyond these specs but why the failure then, is it all operator error? granted some of my guys are not so careful and i don't  double check everything, that's what I'm paying $45 - $60 dollars and hour for + abrasives etc. Most of them leave the plug it cords locked in place as they fit in the systainers that way and remove one more possible source of problem. it's hard to argue with them as they don't "elbow" wrap the cords but "flake" coil them like mic cords as i insist. . .

Offline Alex

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 05:35 AM »
I wonder how much of this has to do with the price of copper.

Nothing. The problem exists equally for European and US users, and they use different types of wire.

The electric connection between plug and socket isn't made with soft copper anyway, but with some hard type of steel.  The burning and melting happens because of poor contact between socket and plug, not the thickness of the wires leading to them.

Offline Eco-Options

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 06:23 AM »
I have been using my RO150 for 2 yrs now with no issues. Yesterday the plug it melted into its socket.
I called Festool USA and spoke to a gentleman there who is sending me a hardwireing kit. He said there are those out there that keep burning up the plug it cords. And he offered a free hardwire install kit.
I did my own hardwiring last night. i was pleasantly surprised by how easy it is to access the terminals! EASY.

Thanks again Festool! I knew you wouldnt let me down!
Www.ecooptionshardwood.com

Offline Eco-Options

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2012, 06:26 AM »
Oh yeah, I think its the heat that caused mine. I had used it for days at a time without removing the cord. I think the heat melted the plastic and when I went to remove the plug it, it just smooshed itself.
Www.ecooptionshardwood.com

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2012, 10:35 AM »
Couple other factors to keep in mind for this discussion.... the length of the run wether it be external power cord or internal wiring, and the efficiency of the electronics.

Eco, never thought of the possibility that leaving the cord connected might contain  heat longer than unplugging. I  don't know... maybe  ???

Ward, one thing would be to have your guys check that the cords are fully twist/locked when they take the tool out to use it.  There is always a possibility that putting them in  and taking them out of the case numerous times  could loosen one just from handling. Then it would be run  with a loose fit connection.  Also I have seen some users hold a tool with a couple fingers on the Plug It connector. Like on some  of the sanders where the connection is right at the end of the handle. That could ceratinly cause a partial unlocking without the user noticing.

After at least five years of use I had a 16ga Plug It cord and the TS55 receptacle go bad a few months ago. The cord on a boom had been used on many tools disconnecting and reconnecting probably thousands of times.  It is probably the case that a few times I didn't have it fully twisted into place just from shear cycles of use, bound to miss twist once in a while. I really couldn't say for sure.


Seth

Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2012, 01:56 PM »
I only ever use one plug-it cable for all tools. Maybe that's the deciding factor and they need renewing every so often  before they burn out the receptacle on a tool.

Offline woodguy7

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2012, 02:20 PM »
One of the pins on mine broke off inside the RO150.  10 days over the 3 years.  Sent it to TTS anyway & they fixed it free of charge.  Cant grumble wa that.

Call them, for a simple repair they may just honour the warranty.

Woodguy
If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
Shirt size medium
p.s- ive started reading these too

Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2012, 02:32 PM »
True enough can't grumble at that. I just did it myself - seemed easier [and it was easy] than sending it to the UK.

Offline ward

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 05:21 PM »
I have been using my RO150 for 2 yrs now with no issues. Yesterday the plug it melted into its socket.
I called Festool USA and spoke to a gentleman there who is sending me a hardwireing kit. He said there are those out there that keep burning up the plug it cords. And he offered a free hardwire install kit.
I did my own hardwiring last night. i was pleasantly surprised by how easy it is to access the terminals! EASY.

Thanks again Festool! I knew you wouldnt let me down!

This may be an excellent option for the tools that i use the most (sanders) the plug it system is a lovely piece of engineering excepting that the long term wear of the terminals does create the possibility of loosing a tight snug fit (same thing on my twist lock 15amp/220 volt cables) My local Rep insisted that once you start to get carbon on the plug or cord they are "contaminated" and one "should" replace both cord and receptacle and not use other cords with a contaminated receptacle as then your getting carbon on the other contacts, increasing resistance and increasing heat. . .

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5339
Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2012, 07:11 PM »
My local Rep insisted that once you start to get carbon on the plug or cord they are "contaminated" and one "should" replace both cord and receptacle and not use other cords with a contaminated receptacle as then your getting carbon on the other contacts, increasing resistance and increasing heat. . .

What carbon do you mean exactly and where does it come from? I thought carbon was good at conducting electricity.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2012, 07:51 PM »
Honestly after reading these posts I have to say that gosh darn it - my electrical cords on some of my other tools made by other companies have cracked, the strain reliefs have failed, the plug ends have gone weak.  That is all part of the lifespan of a tool.  I don't expect that my Festools will be any different.

Peter
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 07:53 PM by Peter Halle »
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline Eco-Options

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2012, 06:20 AM »
I agree that all tools fail at the electrical conntection at some point.
I also know from flooring forums that floor guys run their RO 150's for days at a time! It is well known on those forums that the plug it is the weak link on the festool sanders. Im pretty sure Festool knows this too. Thats why the person I spoke to  suggested the hardwire kit.
Www.ecooptionshardwood.com

Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2012, 07:05 AM »
I thought about hardwiring mine but for me it would be a great shame to loose the plug-it capability.I reckon it's one of the best features about Festool gear.If you swap between tools a lot it's a great asset.

I'd really like to know why the RO 150 is so susceptible to burning the sockets.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 01:58 PM by Nigel »

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2012, 08:26 AM »
So a Festool employee is recommending changing the plug it with a hard-wire kit because the plug its are crap? I find it hard to believe that is Festool sanctioned. The guy should be fired.  That's not a very smart Festool employee or boss to let him say such a thing. I mean come on, that is one of the selling points.

Sending out a new and improved plug it connection would make much more sense.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 08:29 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2012, 09:03 PM »
So a Festool employee is recommending changing the plug it with a hard-wire kit because the plug its are crap? I find it hard to believe that is Festool sanctioned. The guy should be fired.  That's not a very smart Festool employee or boss to let him say such a thing. I mean come on, that is one of the selling points.

Sending out a new and improved plug it connection would make much more sense.

I'm sometimes amazed at how people can take a post and jump to wild conclusions.  I'm pretty sure this guy never said the Plug-It is crap or even meant to imply it.  There just happens to be a percentage of users that use these sanders to the extreme.  With this kind of extreme use the Plug-It may not hold up as well as the rest of the sander.  I'm fairly sure the hard wire kit is a genuine Festool part so it is "sanctioned". 

So here's my take on the hard wire kit, I say good for Festool for having a solution for a relatively small number of extreme user.         
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2012, 02:03 AM »
You might be right but I wouldn't consider myself an extreme user. What would be considered extreme? My RO 150 doesn't get used every single day and when it does get used it's for maybe a couple of hours at the most.It is an industrially rated machine after all.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2012, 02:05 AM »
Hey think what you want.

I never had an issue with my plug it and I highly doubt many use or abuse an RO150 like I do.

I never said they were crap, but many posts here are saying it in so many words. I am saying that this Festool employee and Festool letting this happen from my perspective is wrong and to me makes it seem like this salesman himself thinks the Festool plug its are crap. How can I take it any other way? What should happen is the guy should say hey here is a super duty plug it we have designed , not disregard one of the selling points of the tool altogether.

If a 500.00 sander can not take the most extreme use any person can give it then its not worth 500.00. I feel Festool offering up a solution that goes against it's faster, simpler , smarter sales pitch is absolutely wrong and is a defeatist position admitting this item is crap. If it was a one off they would just say sorry here is another plug it, but this specific salesman or rep must have heard many,many stories leading him to believe that something other than what Festool advertises and normally sells stock was the fix.

And I can believe you took what I said in my post how you took it. That amazes me as you know I am one of the biggest Festool RO150 proponents on this site. It all the other posts saying these plug its are burning that are saying the plug its are crap, not me.

The pads falling apart with barley no use, plug it's burning up, this is ridiculous and its NOT dues to a few heavy users, its not! It is hit or miss and has nothing to do with the tool use. Read the posts, some of these guys have not used the tool much at all.

I like my Festools , but they dropped the ball if they are sanctioning and handing out non plug it fixes. It's funny, I use the word crap and Festool in a sentence but everything else I said is not read. Yes, if these plug its are burning up like this then they are crap, they certainly are not good.

And again mine has never had an issue on any of the 8 Festool sanders I have had, still I think Festool needs to get to the bottom of this or make a redesign.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:12 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Eco-Options

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2012, 06:21 AM »
So a Festool employee is recommending changing the plug it with a hard-wire kit because the plug its are crap? I find it hard to believe that is Festool sanctioned. The guy should be fired.  That's not a very smart Festool employee or boss to let him say such a thing. I mean come on, that is one of the selling points.

Sending out a new and improved plug it connection would make much more sense.

I'm sometimes amazed at how people can take a post and jump to wild conclusions.  I'm pretty sure this guy never said the Plug-It is crap or even meant to imply it.  There just happens to be a percentage of users that use these sanders to the extreme.  With this kind of extreme use the Plug-It may not hold up as well as the rest of the sander.  I'm fairly sure the hard wire kit is a genuine Festool part so it is "sanctioned". 

So here's my take on the hard wire kit, I say good for Festool for having a solution for a relatively small number of extreme user.         

AMEN. Really its not a crap design as we all know. Its just for me, the hardwire makes sense.
Its like the carvex. Crap it is not. Flawed, maybe and I also thank Festool for once again supporting their customers!
Www.ecooptionshardwood.com

Offline Eco-Options

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2012, 06:24 AM »
Dovetail
The worker was going to send out a new recepticle for the plug it. I inquired about the hardwire kit. He did not mention until I asked.
Weak link for some, yes, a great time saver for others as well!
Www.ecooptionshardwood.com

Offline imaginarynumber

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2012, 07:23 PM »
You might be right but I wouldn't consider myself an extreme user. What would be considered extreme? My RO 150 doesn't get used every single day and when it does get used it's for maybe a couple of hours at the most.It is an industrially rated machine after all.

Everyone of my festool plug-it compatible devices has been "damaged" by the poor quality/design of the plug it connections. 

One of the biggest problems is that you can't clean the carbon off the male pins, meaning that if an employee uses a contaminated lead on a new tool, that tool then becomes contaminated.

TBF to festool they have offered to take back and repair the tools but I can't afford to be left without any tools whilst the repairs are conducted and I am painfully aware that the problem will occur again.

In the past I have had to wedge bits of Twin and Earth into the female socket to aid the conductivity and then forbid anyone to undo the connections.

Festool make great products but are unnervingly Apple-esque in their unwillingness to admit that they make mistakes. I first discovered this when the first generation of antistatic hoses with the integrated plug-its kept coming undone, exposing the live wiring. Pretty much everyone of the european festool employees told me i was mad and to  off. The only person that was willing to help was Christian Oltzscher but his hands were pretty much tied because the hoses didn't exist in the USA at the time.

After a number of months I was forced to report Festool to Trading Standards, they walked into Minden's offices and picked up one of the hoses and proceeded to undo the nut on the underside of the plug-it connection with their fingers. With the authorities now involved Festool finally decided to do something about it
 


Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2012, 01:43 AM »
I know what you mean, it'll breakdown right when you need it the most.

There is a simple solution though,at least for the RO 150. Buy a spare socket at 5 or 6 quid and you're ready for the breakdown - it's unbelievably easy to change.I don't know but I would imagine the other tools are just as easy. Don't forget to dump the cord to avoid infection.

 I keep meaning to find out if all the sockets are the same for all the tools. Anyone know?

Offline jonny round boy

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2012, 09:53 AM »
I keep meaning to find out if all the sockets are the same for all the tools. Anyone know?

I think that the plastic part is the same, but there are a few different codes listed for different lengths of flying leads attached.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline counterfix

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2012, 11:46 AM »
 i have replaced many of these all on ro 150 s its a simple maintenance issue there inexpensive item however the cords are not .so you should check the electrodes  frequently they get thinner with prolonged use thus losing  there connection .as Tool home can tell you i buy them in multiples i have 7 ro 150 and this has happen to them all and i wouldn't change a thing on them they are still the best out there

Offline Nigel

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2012, 01:18 AM »
I keep meaning to find out if all the sockets are the same for all the tools. Anyone know?

I think that the plastic part is the same, but there are a few different codes listed for different lengths of flying leads attached.

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks JRB.

Offline Jdeadwyler

  • Posts: 1
Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2017, 09:52 PM »
Rolex 150 used moderately. Replaced one plug 1.5 years ago and now have 2 more gone. Per the notice on the website, I will call service and find out what the issue is and how to resolve it. I have, like others,  been diligent to seed the cord correctly and twist it all the way. It is a amazing system but the plug issue is definitely a manufacture issue in my non professional opinion.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline leakyroof

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2017, 09:14 AM »
Did you see the post from 2012 about hardwiring a new cord into the Sander?  You lose the Plug-It connection, but are locked into the tool with no pins to work loose on you. After reading this thread, I'm liking my few Festool sanders that are hardwired from the Factory a bit more..... [cool]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Alex

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Re: RO 150 plug-it design fault
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2017, 09:29 AM »
I agree that the entire design of the plug-it cord has an inherent weakness to it. They should have made all the connectors stronger. But I bet Festool likes it like now, people keep on shelling out money for new cords and connectors, me included.

Some cords or sockets of my tools are broken after hardly a year. Others, like my RO150 are still good after 8 years. It's a bit of a lottery, but if you have more tools, some will certainly fail eventually. The rate is much too high compared to other brands