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Author Topic: RTS400EQ Bit the dust  (Read 2085 times)

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Offline bags

  • Posts: 6
RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« on: August 05, 2017, 03:14 AM »
I was using my RTS 400 EQ sander on multiple stools I made, decided I needed a DTS 400 to hit the corners, ordered one. The RTS died 1 hour after I ordered the DTS. Contacted festool and they said it was 3yrs 4 months old, so out of warranty. Sent it to them for an estimate on repair cost  $167 bucks!!!!!!!! the repair would be guaranteed  for 6 months but if something else broke it would cost more . I do use my tools but not for work, I thought FESTOOL would last for years. Does anyone else think that this is ridiculous? You can buy a ridged 1/4 sheet sander  from home depot for $35 and they will guarantee it for life. How can festool charge so much and just ignore the customers.. I do own several Festool tools.. They say you get what you pay for but in this case I think I paid way more than it is worth. Would like your input.

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Online Gregor

  • Posts: 543
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 04:20 AM »
https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/full-lifetime-warranty
Quote
RIDGID tools are warranted to be free of material and workmanship defects.

How Long Coverage Lasts

This warranty lasts for the lifetime of the RIDGID tool. Warranty coverage ends when the product becomes unusable for reasons other than defects in workmanship or material.
So the moment a bearing fails as it reached planned obsolescence the warranty is over.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 180
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 04:32 AM »
You weren't ignored.  The tool failed out of warranty.  Just as with anything else out of warranty you either get it fixed @ your own expense or replace it.  What would you have them do...  offer a lifetime's replacement?  At what or rather who's expense?

Festo products are reasonably well-made, but as with all power tools will eventually fail.  Given that most Festo/ols are at around the medium price range of their peers, I find your umbrage baffling.  Even top-'o-the range products like Mirka, Mafell & Rupes  sanders will only honour their products against fault for the statutory period, without any sort of guarantee whatsoever on their (Mirka/Metabo) plug-in power cords.  Surely you would've been made aware of your warrantied entitlements at the place & time of purchase?

Most of my Festo/ols have indeed lasted for years, as they are generally of above-average build quality.  My only complaints to date have been in regard to predatory pricing and the poor design & inadequate performance of some newer designs.

My point is that nobody forced my hand in tool selection.  Caveat emptor, cobber.  You were presumably happy with your sander up until the moment of failure, so just get another.  The repair doesn't sound excessively expensive to me:  some 25% of replacement price.  Why the air of dudgeon?  How do you justify your personal entitlement to "special" service denied to all the rest of us?
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Harry1561

  • Posts: 38
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 06:49 AM »
Well said, it seems everyone is getting on the 'bag ' festool wagon at the moment. I'm happy with my festools ,even brought the Kapex 120 a couple of weeks ago,despite the bad reviews on the 'FOG', just couldn't find an alternative SCMS with the same quality!

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 341
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 07:28 AM »
I see both sides of this.  If the tool is used professionally, I can accept a failure.  That is the cost of doing business.  When tools have failed quicker than I expect I ask myself, how much money has that tool made me or saved me?  The answer is almost always more than the repair replacement costs.

BUT, if the tool is used recreationally, I understand why a person feels cheated.

Having said that, I must agree that no company can offer a lifetime warrantee without someone paying the price.

Three examples:

Dillon Precicision manufactures reloading presses for ammunition.  They offer an unconditional lifetime no BS warrantee on every part of their equipment.  If something fails, I call them and they ship the part for free, no questions asked.  How do they stay in business?  They raise the price of their equipment about 6-8% EVERY YEAR (double or more of what most do).

Sears Craftman Tools used to be warranted for life.  Originally made domestically, they outsourced manufacturing overseas (I would surmise that they were losing money).  Their warranty was then altered to non lifetime for anything electric.  The last information I have is that a broken socket will cost half of new for replacement.

I am a remodeling contractor.  There are fairly rigid laws for consumer warrantee rights.  I subcontracted the installation of a glass shower door.  The client is physically challenged due to a stroke.  Consequently, she uses any available surface to steady herself.  The gasket on the door came off not once, but three times.  All three times it was replaced under warrantee (two times it was not under warrantee).  This most recent time, my contractor said he would not replace it again free of charge, because he feels the failure was user induced.  I agreed and then had a very kind, but direct talk with my client.  She admitted to grabbing the door to steady herself.  I told her that the gasket would not be replaced under warrantee any more, but I compromised by offering to be the contact person to resolve this if it happened again.  It has happened two more times and she has had to pay to have the gasket replaced.

There can be a lifetime warranty, but to get it we must expect to pay higher prices than what we are now.  That may or may not be an option.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 916
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 07:28 AM »
I would be frustrated as well especially if the tools aren't used constantly in a professional setting.  But it happened and it's most likely a one off, I've heard of very few sander failures and I think most would agree the sanders will go a decade or more depending on usage. 

That said, can the housing be disassembled to access and test/replace the switch?  Many sanders (all brands) fail here, so if you can replace it yourself, that might be the economical solution.
-Raj

Online Gregor

  • Posts: 543
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 07:55 AM »
That said, can the housing be disassembled to access and test/replace the switch?  Many sanders (all brands) fail here, so if you can replace it yourself, that might be the economical solution.
If I recall the festool repair rules correctly you should be able to get it shipped back to you with a list of the faults, in the current disassembled state it is. Depending on the fault it might be worth to get the part(s) in question yourself and do the assembly yourself...

Online Svar

  • Posts: 1117
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 10:50 AM »
The repair doesn't sound excessively expensive to me:  some 25% of replacement price.
To be fair $167 is 64% of the $260 replacement price.

Offline HarveyWildes

  • Posts: 580
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2017, 12:15 PM »
I've been buying Festool tools for two years now.  I've got about ten Festool power tools.  I don't use them professionally, so I expect them to last -many- years.  To date, I've needed to send two of them in for repair.  That is a much, much higher rate than for the other tool brands that I own.  I am very concerned that this trend will continue - we'll see.

That said, I bought Festool for two reasons
*  The dust collection is superb.
*  The compact, integrated form factor will suit me well in the future.
So if the tools continue failing at the rate of one a year after the warrantee period is up, I will have some hard decisions to make between the Festool advantages and the cost of ownership.

Offline bags

  • Posts: 6
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2017, 03:34 PM »
The technician said I need a new stator and bearings, if I had used this tool everyday, abused it, left it in the rain or took it out to a job site I might be able to just suck it up. The fact that I use it in my backyard shop with a midi and blow out the excess dust that sneaks its way in with a compressor.. I would think this would work for years. If it costs 2/3rds the price of a new one ( which has a 3 yr warranty, systainer, powercoard etc) why would that be a way to go?  Kobalt, snap-on, bessey clamps, husky and Duluth trading company all have replacement policies (Duluth is mostly work clothes however, I have had work pants and lunchboxes replaced by them without issue and those items have seen railroad use) Why doesn't festool offer a bare tool or even a discount at times like everyone else.. Because they are suppose to be the cream and you pay for quality!

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 81
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2017, 04:34 PM »
I use my tools professionally. I invested in Festool because of the warranty. I was burning through $100.00 sanders on a yearly basis. I know I'm covered for 3 years no questions asked with my Festool sanders.
Now I know "Hobbyist" who use their tools just as much as I do. The only difference between a Hobbyist and a professional, is one does it for a living.
That being said, I do feel your pain if you do use it on a limited basis.
This reminds me of the auto warranty's here in the US. 3 year 30,000 miles.
My wife burned through the miles the fist year. The heated seats went out, several other thing went to crap that is non engine related. Guess what, not covered anymore. Now it upsets me that this happened on a 50,000 vehicle, and really has nothing to do with the miles, but it is what it is.
Festool has one of the best warranty's in the market. If you use your tool everyday or one a month, just like my wife's car.... It is what it is.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1374
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2017, 04:37 PM »
Bags- I know it stinks that your sander failed jut after warranty ran out but the terms of the agreement have to end sometime.  If it were a ten yr. warranty and it failed after 121 months we'd still be miffed.  In any case , I think there is no excuse for a premium tool's bearing to fail in three years. Even if it were to be used everyday in a professional setting. 

The sad reality is most replacements/repairs don't make economic sense for tools and appliances. This isn't limited to Festool.   Also, have you actually tried to collect on a ridgid warranty after three years?  It sounds good, but reality is much different.  Now, some store managers will goodwill you something on ocassion but it's not policy and the terms of the warranty have you send in the tool to ridgid corporate. Kobalt and Snap On aren't going to give you an new drill or sander for yours when its warranty expires either. 

The other sad reality is Festool has no real incentive to alter things because we keep buying their tools. If you really want to make a statement , return that new sander you bought with an explanation why and sell the rest of the FT gear. Buy something else.  Otherwise it's like any other capital expense for machinery.  Some are just better values than others but no brand has winners in every catagory. 

Naildrivingman - Festool raises their prices every year too.  I think there's a bit more too it than that.


Aloysius - were you aware that FESTO and FESTOOL are totally separate companies today ?  They have nothing to do with one another regarding operations management or ownership.  Festo no longer produces tools that are used for woodworking.

Your math is incorrect. $167 is not 25% of a new DTS. It's actually 64% like Svar pointed out and that doesn't include the postage cost which you will incur both ways .  When you really look at it , bags' repair will cost MORE THAN a new sander.   You see, the new $260 sander includes free shipping and a new systainer2 which costs $76.   And he wouldn't have the benefit  ::) of a three year warranty.  I think it'll be hard to find anyone to agree with you that that is not an expensive repair.


Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 180
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2017, 11:18 PM »
Interesting.  So the Festo company that made my HL850 E planer, Rotex, Deltex & RS1C sanders, SR5E extractor, CDD drill & much of my other paraphernalia is a completely different corporate entity.  Perhaps that goes some way to explaining why these Festools that you've been buying aren't very good:  they're made by a company that makes imitation Festo tools!  You learn something new every day.

These Festools are also remarkably cheap too!  My Festo products were, by contrast, pretty expensive.  No wonder you want to buy a new one rather than repair the oldie.  It would cost me some 3-4 times as much to buy a new sander from the "imitation" brand!  If your sander costs a mere $260 to replace what's there to complain about?  If you buy one without its expensive plastic box it's presumably less expensive again, assuming you have one already.  By my "incorrect" maths that's about $60/annum to run one of those imitation Festo sanders - not too bad really.  My cost would be closer to $200/annum for the same tool.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline bags

  • Posts: 6
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 02:53 AM »
just a side note on the Ridgid warranty. My buddy has a ridged planer 63 months old and a bolt came loose which screwed the motor. He took it to an authorized  repair shop near us they kept it for 3 weeks  and found it  to be faulty. They decided it required replacement and handled that with finesse  and honesty. No charge .... and he has drooled when looking at my FESTOOL's.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 662
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 07:20 AM »
https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/full-lifetime-warranty
Quote
RIDGID tools are warranted to be free of material and workmanship defects.

How Long Coverage Lasts

This warranty lasts for the lifetime of the RIDGID tool. Warranty coverage ends when the product becomes unusable for reasons other than defects in workmanship or material.
So the moment a bearing fails as it reached planned obsolescence the warranty is over.

I believe that is the wrong warranty. The one you cite is from the Ridge Tool Company (a division of Emerson) and covers their pipe tools like RIDGID pipe wrenches.

The RIDGID name used on power tools both stationary and portable/cordless power tools is licensed to TTI (since 2004 IIRC) for branding their AEG tools sold in the US mostly through Home Depot. TTI owns other brands used for power tools and more such as AEG, Milwaukee, and Ryobi. They also manufacture private label tools for Sears under the Craftsman brand. TTI has bought up a number of companies such as Empire (levels and layout tools), Oreck (vacuums), Homelite (yard tools and more), Dirt Devil(vacuums), the list goes one.  TTI has no connection to Festools parent company. http://www.ttigroup.com/en/our_brands/

The RIDGID Lifetime Service Agreement or LSA details are here:
https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/three-year-limited-lsa


The part that I believe the OP was referring to in the RIDGID agreement is this:

What is Covered? (applies to the 3-Year Limited Warranty, the Lifetime Service Agreement, and the Recon Limited Warranty)

The 3 Year Limited Warranty, The Recon Limited Warranty and the Lifetime Service Agreement covers all worn parts in properly maintained tools. This includes normal wear items such as brushes, chucks, motors, switches, gears and even cordless batteries in your qualifying RIDGID® Brand hand held and stationary power tools. These programs also cover replacement rings, driver blades and bumpers on RIDGID® Brand pneumatic tools. This service coverage does not apply to other ineligible RIDGID® Brand products.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:39 AM by Bob D. »
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Online Gregor

  • Posts: 543
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2017, 09:14 AM »
https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/three-year-limited-lsa
So three years warranty and then hope for the best, dosn't seem that different to festool to me.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 662
Re: RTS400EQ Bit the dust
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2017, 12:01 PM »
https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/three-year-limited-lsa
So three years warranty and then hope for the best, dosn't seem that different to festool to me.

Except for this statement:

"Once all conditions of the registration process are fulfilled, the
tool’s service coverage lasts the lifetime of the original purchaser."

Lifetime of the purchaser, not the tool, which hopefully is greater than 3 years.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?