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Author Topic: Kapex life span  (Read 246686 times)

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Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #180 on: March 03, 2016, 06:21 AM »
I imported an Erika (would have run near $5k with all the bells and whistles in the US). This essentially left me with zero warranty. That's how much I trust Mafell equipment to not break down.

I would not pay half of what a Kapex is going for now if I needed to replace it outright (I'll probably pay to have it fixed as that amount is tolerable). That would leave me with a 3 year warranty and have me hoping that the motor goes within that 3 years, that is how little I trust Festool equipment not to break.

P.S.- this isn't my first broken festool. I've got a recon rts400  that the motor quit on me right outside of the 1 year recon warranty. Same symptoms and everything. Don't just view what I say as some disgruntled tradesman with a grudge. There's legitametly something wrong with these motors.

You can all continue to ignore the problem that many of us are having that's your decision. I just hope others see this thread before purchasing and use their informed judgement.

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #181 on: March 03, 2016, 09:20 AM »
I recently talked with the folks at Mafell (USA) about their one year warranty. They said the saw was so good it did not need a longer warranty like Festool. I respectfully disagreed with them and said the one year warranty did not give me the confidence that Mafell had any confidence in their product. If they did, they would put their money where their mouth is. Their logic was backwards to me and made no sense.

Once a tool gets a reputation for giving up its smoke, then it becomes a matter of "when it will fail", rather than "If it will fail".

Buying a tool with a reputation for usually failing, even with a warranty makes questionable sense.

The Mafell tools I have, do feel like quality tools, and they do not have a reputation for failing... So I feel the risk is low.

That won't get a person over the first buy hump.

Regardless of tool quality (because the hump is in the way for me) I've found Mafell quite arrogant as a company.

Going a bit off topic .. I like to pick up and play with the tools I intend to buy - another reason why I've spend $0 on Mafell, yet have been delighted with the Festool buying experience locally.

The point was that the warranty of the Kapex will not get me over the buy hump.

Whether Mafell are arrogant does not affect their tool longevity. They are a company not a person.

On the other hand people 'feels' (emotions) about FT that seems at odds with reality.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:45 AM by Holmz »

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #182 on: March 03, 2016, 10:03 AM »
@rizzoa13
I sincerely appreciate your testimony of confidence with Mafell. Four weeks ago I did not know what a Mafell was or who they were. I need a track saw to cut an expensive table top made from solid Black Walnut. I have invested significantly in Festool and naturally was gravitating towards their two selections. After researching many threads here on the FOG,  I Iearned about Mafell and their offering. I'll keep this short and say, I am saving for the Mafell track saw. Thank you to all the help from fellow FOGgers.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #183 on: March 03, 2016, 10:29 AM »
I don't think you'll regret that choice krkww. When you run a mafell tool you can feel the difference in the motor. The cuprex motor on my Erika feels and SOUNDS bomb proof. None of tell tale electronic beeping or whine you get with the festool motors. Even the kapex when it worked always felt chintzy on the motor side of things. Now I see know why  [crying]

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #184 on: March 03, 2016, 10:59 AM »
I want Festool to succeed but I am not foolish. When I invest, I want a reasonable return on my investment. I've had tools last for decades. I once asked a carpenter for his philosophy concerning his tools. He replied, "I buy the best I can afford at the time and I take care of them and they take care of me." I've found fruitful wisdom in his council. I live by it today.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #185 on: March 03, 2016, 11:25 AM »
I remember both these topics.

Kinda thought to my self at the time must just be a small handfull off people at most with kapax motors burning up.

These were posted a few years ago!!

Fog forum
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-120-motor-burning-up/

Another topic
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/festool-kapex-motor-burnt-up/

Another topic
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-up-in-smoke/

Another topic
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-died-festool-repair-to-the-rescue!!/
*********************************************************************** [thumbs up]UK members click me
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #186 on: March 03, 2016, 11:51 AM »
@Krkww
You will not be disappointed and the tracks are superior.
All the rest is the same, you can hook it up to any vacuum, and if you want you can put a Mafell/Bosch track onto Festool System-MFT.

When we first saw the Kapex the Mrs wanted one for picture framing...

Offline Nippychippy

  • Posts: 507
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #187 on: March 03, 2016, 02:47 PM »
Have Festool still not given a proper statement

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #188 on: March 03, 2016, 03:19 PM »
Have Festool still not given a proper statement

There is a price increase.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #189 on: March 03, 2016, 03:23 PM »
Have Festool still not given a proper statement

They have, there is nothing wrong the Kapex design, full stop.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Linbro

  • Posts: 203
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #190 on: March 03, 2016, 03:41 PM »
@rizzoa13
I sincerely appreciate your testimony of confidence with Mafell. Four weeks ago I did not know what a Mafell was or who they were. I need a track saw to cut an expensive table top made from solid Black Walnut. I have invested significantly in Festool and naturally was gravitating towards their two selections. After researching many threads here on the FOG,  I Iearned about Mafell and their offering. I'll keep this short and say, I am saving for the Mafell track saw. Thank you to all the help from fellow FOGgers.

The MT55 is a great choice if you work a lot with solid timber, due to the extra power. The ability to quickly change blades, when you go from crosscutting to ripping to cross cutting is also handy. You wont regret paying a bit extra for a superior saw.

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #191 on: March 03, 2016, 03:46 PM »
@Linbro
Thanks for your encouragement, I sincerely appreciate it especially in light of the significant financial investment.

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #192 on: March 03, 2016, 07:40 PM »
I'm officially part of the club!!  My kapex started smoking today, I've had my kapex since 2008. I use my saw for everything from framing to fine finish. As long as the repair cost is low and the saw lasts me another 7-8 years I'll be happy. I did shed a tear today though when the motor started smoking. My kapex is all boxed up and ready to get shipped out. I will let you guys know the damage.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline MGB

  • Posts: 111
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #193 on: March 03, 2016, 09:12 PM »
8 years not too bad, my trusty hitachi is the same age. If it went at this point I don't think I'd be mad.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:21 PM by MGB »

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #194 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56 PM »
8 years not too bad, my trusty hitachi is the same age. If it went at this point I don't think I'd be mad.

Did you pay $1450 for it?? [huh]
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #195 on: March 03, 2016, 10:39 PM »
I still have a Milwaukee chop & a Milwaukee slider that I purchased in 2001. They both still perform fine. I replaced both of them with a Kapex but have not sold the Milwaukee gear because I'm just a tad nervous about the longevity of the Kapex.

So bottom line is, I purchased the Milwaukee chop new for $187 and the slider for $425 15 years ago. I wonder what that equates to in todays dollars, and given that they still work fine, what the cost per year has been to operate those 2 saws?

Working with the new math...that means the Milwaukee chop has cost me $1 per month...over 15 years, and it still works...

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #196 on: March 04, 2016, 01:15 AM »

The point was that the warranty of the Kapex will not get me over the buy hump.

Whether Mafell are arrogant does not affect their tool longevity. They are a company not a person.

On the other hand people 'feels' (emotions) about FT that seems at odds with reality.

Agree - exactly why I've suggested that the KAPEX warranty needs to be bumped up to at least reinstate buying confidence.

On Mafell - no issue with the tools they make, just the tools they employ!!

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #197 on: March 04, 2016, 06:12 AM »
Extending the warranty would be great but how about taking care of the customers who are dealing with the shotty equipment? It'd go quite a long way if festool got off their high horse and made a case by case analysis of these saws that the motors are dieing on.

It could go something like this:

"Customer A is sending in a Kapex with a blown motor that's less than 4 years old."

"Well it's out of warranty but that's just not an acceptable lifespan for our tools, let's send him a shipping box and take care of it."

If a deck or addition I built started to sag or have issues I'd be there the next day to fix it out of pocket. Not just to save face but because I have pride in my work and respect customers choosing me over another guy even if I'm more expensive.
 

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #198 on: March 04, 2016, 08:12 AM »
I am expecting to be fortunate in finding more time to play in my woodshop.  I have been thinking for many moons to save $$$ for a Kapex.  I have been reading about problems with the motors with receding thoughts about such a purchase.  I like the idea of having a slider that takes up no more space than a chopper and does a great job of DC.  I have finally solved my DC problems with my Hitachi slider, but not the space problem.  I have a couple of ideas for solving the space problem, one of which i mentioned in another discussion.  (A lazy susan like turn table mounted on a pair of heavy duty drawer slides that has solved some of the space problem) I am thinking that I will keep the Hitachi.  For what i paid for it and what it costs for a new one, I could probably get what i paid for it way back when it was shiny and new.  For about five years, I used it on every reject until I got my ATF 55 and 1080 MFT.  I still use it once in a while and do not foresee heavy usage.  I will just stay with what I have and work out the fitting in a small space some how.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #199 on: March 04, 2016, 09:10 AM »
I'll say Tinker that while I have some real issues with my experience with the kapex it's not a dud. When its working it's the best miter saw on the market in many ways. It's just not worth the money for how long it lasts and that should be taken into consideration by others.

Offline OttawaP

  • Posts: 14
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #200 on: March 04, 2016, 09:28 AM »
I don't know why people excuse the performance of these tools at times. I don't own a kapex but the saw obviously has either a design or quality control problem. It shouldn't fail under normal working conditions ever and last at least 10 years.

Online waho6o9

  • Posts: 1384
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #201 on: March 04, 2016, 09:47 AM »
If a Kapex doesn't last 15 years with heavy use it's a waste of resources and I feel

we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #202 on: March 04, 2016, 10:10 AM »
...I feel we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

^This^

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #203 on: March 04, 2016, 11:44 AM »
...I feel we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

^This^
If this is true for others, then we need to change our behavior and stop doing this so Festool realizes we are serious. As one already shared, "vote with your wallet."

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #204 on: March 04, 2016, 11:53 AM »
...I feel we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

^This^
If this is true for others, then we need to change our behavior and stop doing this so Festool realizes we are serious. As one already shared, "vote with your wallet."

We cannot change our behaviour easily, because our behaviour comes from our belief systems.

We need to change our beliefs, and become dispassionate by trying to evaluate our selection of tools based upon facts.

On the otherhand... if people get emotional joy just from having a tool, then maybe that is the end goal.

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #205 on: March 04, 2016, 12:24 PM »
The problem is what saw do you buy to replace a kapex for field use. In a shop I don't see many issues with other saw brands. But for me the kapex is compact, lightweight, has an amazing stand, very accurate even after all these years, great dust collection, soft start so the handle doesn't jerk out of your hand and many more reasons. I thought about the Bosch but it's huge, even the 10". I do think the kapex as well as the ts55 should be made more powerful but the features they pack make it hard for me to give them up.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline Jozsef Kozma

  • Posts: 113
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #206 on: March 04, 2016, 01:34 PM »
The problem is what saw do you buy to replace a kapex for field use. In a shop I don't see many issues with other saw brands. But for me the kapex is compact, lightweight, has an amazing stand, very accurate even after all these years, great dust collection, soft start so the handle doesn't jerk out of your hand and many more reasons. I thought about the Bosch but it's huge, even the 10". I do think the kapex as well as the ts55 should be made more powerful but the features they pack make it hard for me to give them up.

Dave
There is none that comes even close to it
I own 5 sliders and 3 chop saws my partner owns a Kapex
The Kapex is on an other level with the things you mentioned
So with all that said I am going for a Kapex next week ,replacing a 10" Hitachi slider
Yes I will hope my will perform as my partners

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #207 on: March 04, 2016, 01:45 PM »
Blimey this thread has to be the longest on the FOG and no credible response from Festool!!! Come on there is obviously a problem here. Performance might be great but without reliability it doesn't doesn't mean. Ducati had great performance back in the day but they fell apart. I was all set to buy a Kapex - not now!!

<<EDIT:  Word deleted because of typing around the word filter - P.Halle, Moderator>>
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 05:52 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #208 on: March 04, 2016, 03:22 PM »
Blimey this thread has to be the longest on the FOG and no credible response from Festool!!! Come on there is obviously a problem here. Performance might be great but without reliability it doesn't doesn't mean shiiiit. Ducati had great performance back in the day but they fell apart. I was all set to buy a Kapex - not now!!

@Nigel

Keep in mind the vast majority of KAPEX issues have been 110v. JMB's 240v KAPEX failure is a little different in nature and I'd guess far less frequent.

My Aussie 240v KAPEX hasn't missed a beat. Hoping it stays that way!

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 391
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #209 on: March 04, 2016, 03:38 PM »
My 240v UK Kapex failed at 18months old.

Doug