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Author Topic: Kapex life span  (Read 232481 times)

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Offline glass1

  • Posts: 387
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #210 on: March 04, 2016, 05:09 PM »
Attention Festool.  I imagine this thread is uncomfortable but many here like what Festool is all about high quality made by people who could afford to hire the people who use the tools for a living. That being said, hey Festool if you go out on a limb and figure out what's going with these motor failures and/or just back them up with a real extended warranty I bet most would stand with you.

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Offline MGB

  • Posts: 110
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #211 on: March 04, 2016, 05:31 PM »
8 years not too bad, my trusty hitachi is the same age. If it went at this point I don't think I'd be mad.

Did you pay $1450 for it?? [huh]

Hah, I was going to raise that point, but I thought there was enough negativity in this thread.

It cost me $550 cad with the hitachi stand. Kapex here is $1920, and I won't touch it with a stick  [wink]

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #212 on: March 04, 2016, 05:32 PM »
Second that. It would be nice to hear from someone affiliated with festool on whether or not they think 4 years is acceptable for a tool at this price point. (Fat chance for obvious reasons).

Don't let this die. The deflection and obvious neglect when it comes to this issue is getting annoying and is making me want to start a campaign for a response.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #213 on: March 04, 2016, 05:49 PM »
I am sure that Festool on both sides of the ocean is reading this thread.  That being said let's make sure that posts stay polite and within the forum guidelines as this thread continues.

Peter

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #214 on: March 04, 2016, 07:52 PM »
On the issue of warranty's, personally I try to buy good quality tools that I think will last a long time with proper care/maintenance, therefor I think the purpose of a warranty is to safeguard against manufacturing faults which usually are found within a year on a tool that gets a lot of use and maybe 3 years on a tool that is only used intermittently.

So i think increasing the warranty on the Kapex is pointless because it would have to be 10-12 years to be meaningful (what i consider an appropriate lifespan for a SCMS with normal trade use) and that is never going to happen, and is a little ridiculous.

Manufacturing faults happen from time to time and no manufacturer is immune no matter how many processes they put in place to prevent them. What matters most is how they are dealt with when it becomes apparent there is a problem.
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #215 on: March 04, 2016, 10:04 PM »
On the issue. . . . . . What matters most is how they are dealt with when it becomes apparent there is a problem.

This is how I intend to deal with it later this year. And around $A700 less, which may be spent on a HSC55 or PDC.


________________________________________


« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 08:40 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #216 on: March 04, 2016, 11:15 PM »
On the issue. . . . . . What matters most is how they are dealt with when it becomes apparent there is a problem.

This is how I intend to deal with it later this year. And around $A700 less, which may be spent on a HSC55 or PDC.

(Attachment Link)
________________________________________

And yes, in responding here I am well aware of my Reply #159  on this Thread but since then the topic has broadened somewhat.  [embarassed]

@Untidy Shop

Metabo even make an induction motor version that has my interest (but only as a 254mm blade version). The DC on these is supposed to be pretty good too. When I have space and want to set up a permanent SCMS station I'll probably get a Metabo 315mm and keep the KAPEX lean on use with the hope of maintaining a long life!!

...

Ahh .. just noticed you have the pic of the induction motor version [embarassed]

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #217 on: March 04, 2016, 11:20 PM »
I want an induction motor slider in the US, somebody link me up.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #218 on: March 04, 2016, 11:30 PM »
Attention Festool.  I imagine this thread is uncomfortable but many here like what Festool is all about high quality made by people who could afford to hire the people who use the tools for a living. That being said, hey Festool if you go out on a limb and figure out what's going with these motor failures and/or just back them up with a real extended warranty I bet most would stand with you.

Where do you get the information as to the place of manufacture, or %-age, being listed?

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #219 on: March 05, 2016, 02:53 AM »
I want an induction motor slider in the US, somebody link me up.

@Dovetail65 UK/Europe will be your best bet, but I don't think Metabo make an induction motor 110v version. Nothing 110v is typically sold down under.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #220 on: March 05, 2016, 02:56 AM »
All my induction machines are 220V here in the shop
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #221 on: March 05, 2016, 04:39 AM »
@Untidy Shop  I checked out the Metabo Induction saw before I bought the Kapex, nice saw I was very impressed, only down side is it's quite heavy, about 32kg that's 10kg more than the Kapex. If you are keeping it in a workshop most of the time then it shouldn't be a problem.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6611
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #222 on: March 05, 2016, 11:05 AM »
Im sure festool kapex problems are going to grow very quickly as their sales have increased over the years so every year more and more are going to blow up.  Its no cost to festool because they seem to blow up outside of the warrenty but it will cost festool their reputation.
 
It  seems like they are happy with the short life span of the kapex otherwise they would consider a redesign like they did with the carvex mk2 in a short space of time.  Thats why ive started this thread so to say we as customers are not happy with the short life span even though festool might be.

Ive looked at the new kapex and i remember one problem kapex had was the guard lever wore out and so stopped you from plunging this was because it was running on just a bar so they drilled it and bolted through attaching a bearing for the people like me who had an earlier kapex model and had to send it in for warranty.  Looking at the new ones they come with the bearings and the bolt fixed into a threaded hole and not through so its done from manufacture.

So they improved a simple part like the bearing but wont improve a major life span problem with the motor?


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Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #223 on: March 05, 2016, 11:36 AM »
Jmb festool must make loads of money repairing, out of warrantee tools so why would would they fix the problems.

If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1983
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #224 on: March 05, 2016, 12:14 PM »

I am expecting to be fortunate in finding more time to play in my woodshop.  I have been thinking for many moons to save $$$ for a Kapex.  I have been reading about problems with the motors with receding thoughts about such a purchase.  I like the idea of having a slider that takes up no more space than a chopper and does a great job of DC.  I have finally solved my DC problems with my Hitachi slider, but not the space problem.  I have a couple of ideas for solving the space problem, one of which i mentioned in another discussion.  (A lazy susan like turn table mounted on a pair of heavy duty drawer slides that has solved some of the space problem) I am thinking that I will keep the Hitachi.  For what i paid for it and what it costs for a new one, I could probably get what i paid for it way back when it was shiny and new.  For about five years, I used it on every reject until I got my ATF 55 and 1080 MFT.  I still use it once in a while and do not foresee heavy usage.  I will just stay with what I have and work out the fitting in a small space some how.
Tinker

Which Hitachi do you have Tink?  I have the RSH12 and it is great... Save for the dust collection. PM me if you can to let me know what you ended up doing as my main thought right now is to put a hood behind it. (Sad)

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6611
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #225 on: March 05, 2016, 12:20 PM »
Jmb festool must make loads of money repairing, out of warrantee tools so why would would they fix the problems.

I dont make any money  [tongue]
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Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #226 on: March 05, 2016, 07:45 PM »
I have read through all 8 pages of this thread now, and I got to say I'm realy regretting buying the kapex a year ago. Luckily, in Norway all items have a two years warranty, or five years warranty for items meant to last significantly longer, according to the consumer purchase act. So I guess, I can keep my kapex for almost four years more.

I had my almost new ETS 150/3 stop working today, and also have an almost new rotex 90 where the random orbit mode doesn't work (I'm shipping it to have it repaired soon). I must say I feel a little fooled, thinking Festool was really high quality/industry grade tools, in range with Hilti for example. I expect my Festools to last at least 10 - 15 years of high/moderate use. Almost all the tools I've bought the last couple of years have been Festool (Kapex, OF1400, ETS 150/3, RO90, PDC, TSC55, MFT+), Lie Nielsen, Bosch, Makita and such. They have been bought because they were what I thought to be the highest quality tool within that segment (thoughest and with the longest life expectancy). I feel fooled by the festool-hype, and have learned that Festool is no better then the other brands out there. There is no way I would have paid that much more for the extra features/ease of use on the Festools, since these tools are used mainly as a hobby and for home improvement for me. So I think I have bought my last festool (maybe with the exception of a domino).

It is also very disappointing to see the way festool is handling this, earning money on their loyal customers, repairing their own faulty tools.

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #227 on: March 05, 2016, 08:04 PM »
Just a little comment to my own post: I know I'm being very negative, but thats only because I really wanted Festools to be as good and though as I thought they were (and the reputation has it), after reading alot about the brand here, and in different reviews. I'm truly disappointed, and even feeling a little sad, that it seems impossible to buy the same quality powertools now that one could buy for 10-20 years ago. At least there's some hand tool companies that has understood that there's people out there thats willing to pay much more if you make high quality tools.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #228 on: March 05, 2016, 08:20 PM »
Take a look at metabo for general construction stuff, their new batteries are killer.  Mafell is some seriously amazing stuff too. For finish carpentry and furniture making you'll need to look to a variety of manufacturers for each item.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #229 on: March 05, 2016, 08:27 PM »
Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3626
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #230 on: March 05, 2016, 08:27 PM »

I am expecting to be fortunate in finding more time to play in my woodshop.  I have been thinking for many moons to save $$$ for a Kapex.  I have been reading about problems with the motors with receding thoughts about such a purchase.  I like the idea of having a slider that takes up no more space than a chopper and does a great job of DC.  I have finally solved my DC problems with my Hitachi slider, but not the space problem.  I have a couple of ideas for solving the space problem, one of which i mentioned in another discussion.  (A lazy susan like turn table mounted on a pair of heavy duty drawer slides that has solved some of the space problem) I am thinking that I will keep the Hitachi.  For what i paid for it and what it costs for a new one, I could probably get what i paid for it way back when it was shiny and new.  For about five years, I used it on every reject until I got my ATF 55 and 1080 MFT.  I still use it once in a while and do not foresee heavy usage.  I will just stay with what I have and work out the fitting in a small space some how.
Tinker

Which Hitachi do you have Tink?  I have the RSH12 and it is great... Save for the dust collection. PM me if you can to let me know what you ended up doing as my main thought right now is to put a hood behind it. (Sad)

Cheers. Bryan.

@bkharman I clamped on a rubber sleve with hose clamp.  A clamp at other end for my vac hose to fit.  I found I had to really screw the clamp on the SCMS end very (extremely) tight,  or it pops off.  I have watched others use the Kapex and was amazed at how little dust escapes onto bench and floor.  I have the 8-1/2" Hitachi from somewhere around 20 years ago.  Once I spent a little extra time adjusting anything that could be adjusted on it, I was able to get acurate results for the miters.  Not so close with the beveling.  I just did not have the patience to work on that part as I almost never use it for beveling.

The biggest problem I have with the saw now that I have adjusted is the slides just pust the saw too far out into the floor space.  I still get more dust escaping than I have seen fom the Kapex demos I have watched; but the amount is acceptable now.  I am concerned about the problem with the motor that is being discussed in this discussion.  I have an ancient Bandsaw I inherited from my dad.  25 years ago, I found out it was nearly 45 years old.  It still works fine.  I have no more blades for it and will order new ones. The motor has only received new brushes as far as I know.  I have had milwaukkee circular saws that with tons of every day abuse lasted over 30 years.

I am concerned about the motor on the Kapex and a not so hot to jump on the bandwagon to get one.
Tinker

Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2646
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #231 on: March 06, 2016, 03:40 AM »
Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #232 on: March 06, 2016, 04:22 AM »
Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III

I'm glad that you mention this, as I find it very illuminating to see who has not posted, on the short lifespan of the kapex
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #233 on: March 06, 2016, 05:55 AM »


Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III
[/quote]

Here you go.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-less-for-a-while/

A response in 6 minutes initially.

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #234 on: March 06, 2016, 06:36 AM »
I guess Festool don't want to draw any more attention to this topic, so by not responding they are hoping that the subject will die out faster. If they reply to this, it will start a discussion, and even more people will read about this. So I suggest that if Festool doesn't aleast make a statement by Monday evening, then all those who's experiencing problems write reviews and tell about their problems on eBay, axminster, Amazon and such. By saying nothing Festool is saying alot. As said before, we vote with our wallets, but that vote has already been cast. So if Festool won't listen, then let's get their new kapex customers attention.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #235 on: March 06, 2016, 06:54 AM »
I guess Festool don't want to draw any more attention to this topic, so by not responding they are hoping that the subject will die out faster. If they reply to this, it will start a discussion, and even more people will read about this. So I suggest that if Festool doesn't aleast make a statement by Monday evening, then all those who's experiencing problems write reviews and tell about their problems on eBay, axminster, Amazon and such. By saying nothing Festool is saying alot. As said before, we vote with our wallets, but that vote has already been cast. So if Festool won't listen, then let's get their new kapex customers attention.

I think that's a fair thing to do, but ONLY if you have genuinely experienced a KAPEX failure. This thread and others have made me nervous about the KAPEX I have (though mine is working flawlessly and it isn't high use either).

It would be really insightful to know the total number of units sold in 110V and 240V and the average percentage failing within warranty, 1 year out, 2 years out, etc .. but I doubt we'll ever know. Results here could be skewed or they could be indicative. I do strongly agree that Festool should make some form of statement. Even if they dismissed the failures as a small relative number and statistically acceptable to them, we'd at least know their position!

Offline Len C

  • Posts: 86
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #236 on: March 06, 2016, 09:10 AM »
As a long time Festool user and member of this forum, I thought I would chime in.  I have a lot of Festools in the workshop and I have only had an issue with one of them.....you guessed it, a KAPEX, 6 months after purchase. Service was great,  promptly fixed and returned.

It did cause me some concern and led me to purchase a Mafell Erica which I use whenever possible instead of Kapex.

While Peter and Seth do a great job moderating the forum, I believe they are volunteers and have no official "festool voice" and that is  I what I see lacking in this and other similar threads.

Recently a large German auto maker was found to have been making a defective vehicle and covered it up for years. 

I just find it disconcerting that someone from festool, someone senior, does not come on here and address this.



Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #237 on: March 06, 2016, 09:16 AM »
...
I just find it disconcerting that someone from festool, someone senior, does not come on here and address this.

There are usually rules for them not to. All media is released through a single spokesman after a legal team determines what to say.

They have a warranty, and then later a price to fx them... and we are free to choose what to do in a free market at every step along the way.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3302
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #238 on: March 06, 2016, 09:30 AM »
all I can say is that the silence is deafening.
festool is really damaging their reputation here.
as a group here on the fog we represent a good chunk of the festool fan base and are the ones in the field defending festools prices and showing the tools to our fellow carpenters .

I was thinking about buying 2 festool s  this year but I don't think I will now.
what's more is that I wont recommend  or show them off to others when they ask .


how can you stand behind your products when they are failing like this.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #239 on: March 06, 2016, 09:48 AM »
Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.