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Author Topic: Kapex life span  (Read 247528 times)

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Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 222
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #240 on: March 06, 2016, 10:52 AM »
Much better, thank you TylerC.

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Offline Elmar50

  • Posts: 55
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #241 on: March 06, 2016, 11:16 AM »
At times, my Kapex will bog down considerably along with giving off a faintly burning smell. This occurs especially with wedge cuts. Needless to say, this is anxiety provoking and a reason why I keep my dust-generating, much  abused but reliable Ridgid 12 inch miter saw. Also, I feel obliged to caution friends about buying a Kapex; this in turn reflects badly on the brand's other products.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #242 on: March 06, 2016, 11:19 AM »
I had kapex when they came out, never understood the love. It's a chop saw, a slider. Felt lightwieght and cheap to me. It crosscuts woods, big deal. It would have to be 50% of the cost for me to buy another simply becasue of what it does. Add in the issues? Even if they fixed all the issues it's not cost effective. The kapex doesn't cut any better than any other miter saw that's tuned properly with a nice blade and I have at least two others that  catch near as much dust, one out of the box, one with a mod.

A person could literally buy a fantastic miter saw of a different brand and use the xtra saved cash for a great Festool, something like a Rotex 150,  a Domino, a TS 75, OF 2200, etc. Those tools you can't get from another manufacture that does the same thing or are of the same quality. Some Festools are worth the high amount they cost, not any chop saw they ever could make is worth 1400.00. Add in the short lifespan and all the past problems, I just dont get who buys the thing.


It's my opinion and I'll stick to it.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 11:23 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3660
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #243 on: March 06, 2016, 12:25 PM »
I was in Sears a few weeks ago.  One of their Chinese saws was apparently a poor copy of the Kapex.  I'm not interested, but I am sure others will, once the patents wear out, begin to copy.  I like the idea that the Kapex takes (apparently) little more space than a typical Chop saw.  A great space saver. Othr manufacturers are coming out with space saving innovations as well.  Bosch with there slider that weighs a ton. Makita has their double slide.  Both are space savers and a whole lot less expensive than The Kapex.  I am sure that sooner, than later, some manufacturer will design, built and retail a saw that will be just as light weight, space saving and accurate as the Kapex.

Quote from Tyler C >>>Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.<<<

I am glad to see a Reply.  I have been sure that Festoy has been reading every post.  I am just as sure they do not have an answer yet.  If there is no answer to the problem, it is better not to reply, at least until they can truthfully say there is a solution.  at least we now know they are aware and will be talking about the problem.  That is a step in the right direction. It may take more than a few days, or even a couple of years, but I am sure there will be a solution.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Eoj

  • Posts: 16
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #244 on: March 06, 2016, 01:34 PM »
As a long time Festool user and member of this forum, I thought I would chime in.  I have a lot of Festools in the workshop and I have only had an issue with one of them.....you guessed it, a KAPEX, 6 months after purchase. Service was great,  promptly fixed and returned.

It did cause me some concern and led me to purchase a Mafell Erica which I use whenever possible instead of Kapex.

While Peter and Seth do a great job moderating the forum, I believe they are volunteers and have no official "festool voice" and that is  I what I see lacking in this and other similar threads.

Recently a large German auto maker was found to have been making a defective vehicle and covered it up for years. 

I just find it disconcerting that someone from festool, someone senior, does not come on here and address this.



Same experience with the Kapex ,and purchased the Mafell Erika saw .

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #245 on: March 06, 2016, 01:40 PM »
Makes 3 of us. My mafell Erika is my go to at all times unless the stock is really long or im doing crown.

Good to hear from a Festool employee. I'll wait on sending my kapex in to see if a response comes about sometime soon.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #246 on: March 06, 2016, 03:02 PM »
I had kapex when they came out, never understood the love. It's a chop saw, a slider. Felt lightwieght and cheap to me. It crosscuts woods, big deal. It would have to be 50% of the cost for me to buy another simply becasue of what it does. Add in the issues? Even if they fixed all the issues it's not cost effective. The kapex doesn't cut any better than any other miter saw that's tuned properly with a nice blade and I have at least two others that  catch near as much dust, one out of the box, one with a mod.

A person could literally buy a fantastic miter saw of a different brand and use the xtra saved cash for a great Festool, something like a Rotex 150,  a Domino, a TS 75, OF 2200, etc. Those tools you can't get from another manufacture that does the same thing or are of the same quality. Some Festools are worth the high amount they cost, not any chop saw they ever could make is worth 1400.00. Add in the short lifespan and all the past problems, I just dont get who buys the thing.


It's my opinion and I'll stick to it.

Well as you know ive bought another kapex. Couple reasons why.... I got the UGstand and i have a few blades.

Yet they werent the only reasons why I ended up reluctantly buying the kapex again.   

Can you please show me a chopsaw which equals a kapex. Tick the fallowing.

Dust extraction =
Quick easy bevel adjustment =
Small/compact =
Light weight (the most important factor when working on the job) =
set up in tight spaces/can be set up against wall =
Has a stand which is very portable which is also light weight making the total weight still acceptable for one hand lifting =
fully supporting arm extensions ( NOT the common arm extentions which just support the timber further down)=

Might have missed something out??

But even with those points i couldnt find a chop saw which ticked all those boxes.
If you forget the compact, portability, weight then there are many other brands to pick from and I would highly recommend going with any other brand not a kapex if you are workshop based but site based..... I like to see what you come up with as an alternative
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Offline 7sec153

  • Posts: 18
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #247 on: March 06, 2016, 03:05 PM »
I would like to see a conclusion to this problem.  I have invested quite a bit of money in their products based on their reputation.


Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11533
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #248 on: March 06, 2016, 03:51 PM »
I would like to see a conclusion to this problem.  I have invested quite a bit of money in their products based on their reputation.

Have you had a product stop working and needed to be sent in for service?  Do you own a Kapex?

Peter

Offline Alan Mack

  • Posts: 25
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #249 on: March 06, 2016, 04:18 PM »
I'm just going to tiptoe into this thread and whisper that I've had my Kapex for about 6 years and have had no issues whatsoever. Also have Rotex, Carvex, CT22 and Midi, TS75, Protool Chain Mortiser, and the PDC drill. All working fine.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #250 on: March 06, 2016, 04:32 PM »
I disagree JMB. While you are right the kapex is the best mobile miter saw on the market, I can't bring myself to buy one again. I'll buck up and carry a heavier saw rather than worry about whether or not my saw is going to kick it at an innoportune time and cost me money.

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #251 on: March 06, 2016, 04:51 PM »
Jmbfestool:  and add true soft start and stop. And add quiet. If you like lasers, well 2 that actually work. You see all these amazing features are what make the shortcomings so maddening.

Offline Jozsef Kozma

  • Posts: 113
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #252 on: March 06, 2016, 05:28 PM »
JMB did  what is best for him and made his own decision
He also outlined it why
I would had probably made the same decision

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #253 on: March 06, 2016, 06:02 PM »
I would like to see a conclusion to this problem.  I have invested quite a bit of money in their products based on their reputation.


don't think I have ever based a tool purchase on a companys reputation. to expand, my first purchase was the domino and I knew next nothing about festool
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 06:24 PM by Festoolfootstool »
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #254 on: March 06, 2016, 06:03 PM »
@Untidy Shop Glad someone got to point out the quick Festool response to my post, as opposed to this thread.  I'm knee deep in work all weekend and so haven't even had a chance to test my Kapex yet.  But will report back when I do.


Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #255 on: March 06, 2016, 06:45 PM »
I have to say I admire JMB's resolve to persevere with the KAPEX. Ignoring "cost" and understanding the value it brings is the real difference here and if the features give you real value that no other SCMS can, it is probably worth the gamble.

As a DIYer I went with the KAPEX because it's unique footprint, easy deployment and minimal mess meant that I could do jobs in the small windows of time I have that I simply couldn't tackle with the old HItachi setup I had (and when I say "old" I'm saying just like every other portable SCMS setup).

I have no doubt the KAPEX is the market leader on features - the other wrinkles should be addressable as its not every KAPEX that fails.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 09:11 PM by Kev »

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #256 on: March 06, 2016, 08:27 PM »
Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.

It's good to hear that you are listening, but I'm not satisfied yet. I think that Festool owe their customers, and the kapex owners in particular a statement on where you stand in this matter. I understand that a statement like this isn't something that can be made just like that, but the discontent of so many of your customers should be your top priority.

Like I mentioned I own a kapex and have not had any problems with it, and I like it alot. This tool was a big investment for me, and I realy want it and my other Festools to be good. However I have had major problems with both my Festool sanders. This won't be a big problem for me, as they are both well within the warranty period. But it ment that this saturday, when I finaly had a whole day to work on my project (which I seldom have), I had to postpone it and do something else. But whats worse is that this, along with reading here on FOG has made me start worrying that the tools I thought would last so long, will fail much sooner then I thought.

I bought these tools thinking they would last atlest 10 - 15 years of normal use. There are so many other tool brands that has sold their good name and reputation for higher profits, by reduceing build quality. And that is why I spent so much more to buy Festools (I realise other might have other thoughts and considderations). Now I'm in doubt, and I wan't an answer:

Does Festool intend to make really high (build-) quality tools that will last for decades, or should we expect Festools also to fail within 3 - 5 - 8 - 10 years of purchase?

What is an acceptable lifespan of a Festool that is beeing used several times a week (normal use)?

Do you find it fair that so many of your customers have to pay expensive repairs, for a design flaw or a low quality component in one of your products? For me, this sends the message that after the warranty is out Festool doesn't care/ we're on our own. This also says alot about life expectancy of your tools, and your attitude toward your customers.

Why haven't Festool done anything about this particular problem? As many has pointed out - this is by no means a new problem.

I hope that Festool can give us an answer to our questions, and take responisbillity (and the bill) for this problem from now on. I also really hope that Festool will differentiate them self from the other tool brands persueing a high turnaround, low price and high profits, by lowering build quality and planned obsolescence, but I fear that Festool is drifting in that direction as well. Now please prove me wrong :)

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #257 on: March 06, 2016, 09:45 PM »
I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if someone has already brought this up, but there a bit of an analog with what happened with the TS55REQ.

Remember how many threads were generated on the FOG about the difficulty of getting it set plumb at true 90?  This was owing to the lack of a positive stop on the front bevel lock.  I called up Festool service myself when I first noticed the issue with my saw, and was sort of taken aback by the response I got, in which they didn't even acknowledge that it was an issue -- my being taken aback was mainly a function of the otherwise excellent interactions I had had before (and since) the phone call.

Then quietly -- basically around the same time as the TSC55 was released -- Festool came out with an update that included the positive stop on the corded version.  You don't see those threads any more.  Changes have been made in the past in response to customer complaints, so hopefully this will happen in regard to the Kapex.   
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #258 on: March 06, 2016, 09:56 PM »
I own a "few" Festools, use various ones every day in the remodeling trade. Still waiting for my first Festool failure. Oldest one is 10+ years, newest one is 24 hours old.
Tom

Offline awshucks

  • Posts: 17
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #259 on: March 07, 2016, 12:32 AM »
My Kapex just celebrated it's first birthday, (took advantage of the Feb sale). It had issues from the get go and the service department lived up to all expectations. Since then no problems, unless you count the fact that the saw lives in my shop where I can guarantee a "clean" power supply and a dedicated 20 amp circuit with nothing else on it. I bought the saw for field work (mostly remodels in occupied homes) but after following the Kapex issues here and elsewhere I figured the the safe course was to to leave it in the shop and use my other saws (including the original Hitachi 8 1/2" C8FB bought in 1989) for job sites. It's a shame because I love the saw but at the end of the day it's too expensive to have to worry about and that's exactly the reason I bought the thing, to use on a job site and NOT worry about it. Love the saw but hate the fact that I have to baby it and worry about when the motor burns up. The Hitachi is 27 years old! Only maintenance ever has been the brushes. Would be great if Festool could tell me that they are addressing the problem and will have my back when the motor dies even if it's past the 3 year mark OR do a recall and replace the faulty parts now and let me take the thing out into the field and not worry about it.

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #260 on: March 07, 2016, 04:33 PM »
Watching this closely. I would like a kapex but i am hessitant because of the failures and the poorer preformance of the 110v version. Having a dewalt chopsaw for over a decade i feel reluctant to drop so mich cash on something that may cost me again in 3-4years.

Need an answer on this festool

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #261 on: March 07, 2016, 04:49 PM »
Watching this closely. I would like a kapex but i am hessitant because of the failures and the poorer preformance of the 110v version. Having a dewalt chopsaw for over a decade i feel reluctant to drop so mich cash on something that may cost me again in 3-4years.

Need an answer on this festool

Must suck cus you have said for a while u wanted a kapex
after using mine and...... Leaving a lovely saw mark with a circular saw on my arm extention lol.
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Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #262 on: March 07, 2016, 04:53 PM »
Accidents happen.....

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #263 on: March 07, 2016, 05:23 PM »
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Offline Saskataper

  • Posts: 278
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #264 on: March 07, 2016, 11:20 PM »
I am also anxious to here if there is a solution coming, a friends Kapex just failed and has been sent in under warranty. The warranty on mine is up in the next couple months and I am seriously considering selling mine and maybe getting one of the new cordless makitas. The thought of going to an inferior saw is painful but by the sounds of it the chance of failure is bordering on being not if its going to happen but when. Then I have to pay a huge shipping and repair bill? Not so keen on that.

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #265 on: March 08, 2016, 01:08 AM »
I am also anxious to here if there is a solution coming, a friends Kapex just failed and has been sent in under warranty. The warranty on mine is up in the next couple months and I am seriously considering selling mine and maybe getting one of the new cordless makitas. The thought of going to an inferior saw is painful but by the sounds of it the chance of failure is bordering on being not if its going to happen but when. Then I have to pay a huge shipping and repair bill? Not so keen on that.


you could try giving the saw some hard work, chances are it would fail, and you would still be in the warrantee period. Once repaired  the saw would be good for another 18months or more
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #266 on: March 08, 2016, 06:36 AM »
No delibaeration on this? An update after your meeting would be nice tylerC.

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11533
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #267 on: March 08, 2016, 06:57 AM »
Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.

For all those anxiously waiting for information, based on what @TylerC originally wrote I would suspect that he is not yet able.

Peter

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #268 on: March 08, 2016, 08:22 AM »
I'm not trying to be impatient. I'd just like this thread to not fade into obscurity is all.

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 1048
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #269 on: March 08, 2016, 08:38 AM »
No delibaeration on this? An update after your meeting would be nice tylerC.

We're looking into several things and should have an update soon. We're working with several departments to look at the actual number of Kapex service/repair claims, the nature of those claims, how that compares with the actual number of Kapexes that are in the market, and how that percentage compares to Festool and industry standards. (FWIW, we constantly track and monitor the repair percentages for each tool, but -- due to concerns brought up here -- we're going a bit more in-depth.)

We want to be thorough and considerate when looking into this, and I'm hoping to have more to share later today. Thanks for your patience.