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Author Topic: Kapex life span  (Read 252862 times)

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Offline Kev

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #330 on: March 11, 2016, 11:04 PM »
I checked my tracking number and my kapex has arrived at the Festool service center. I will keep updating this thread with what's going on with my kapex. Hopefully it's not crazy expensive  [eek]

Dave

Regardless of the "company position" .. I think Festool service departments will be well advised to keep their thumbs off the scales when it comes to assessing and pricing all future out of warranty KAPEX repairs!!!

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Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #331 on: March 12, 2016, 09:32 AM »
Hi
 Due to travel I haven't been able to contribute to this thread as much as I would normally do. I am away again to Nuremberg next week also.

   This started many pages back with JMB sending his Kapex in for repair - out of warranty. I asked the service team to write up a report before the quote. The Kapex had been opened up various wires removed from position and I think cut or trapped (will have to double check that)....the report is on my desk. This meant to diagnose the fault it had to be re assembled - time = money hence the higher quote and from there the Kapex has taken a real thrashing on here. If sending a machine in for repair to a service centre do not open it up - if out of warranty a charge will be made, at least in the U.K and remember Festool is a business.
    Festool U.K receive Kapex in for service/repair in many different states of condition. Some, believe me do not resemble a Kapex when they arrive and have been used to cut all manner of materials including steel with grinding discs, Quartz with diamond blades, and even used with blades that literally have no teeth left - I use these blades on dealer training courses to show what is or is not good practise.
    The thread has gone through many different scenarios and comments all of which have been taken on board, that I can assure you has been fed back.
    If commenting then please try and avoid smart side swipes at the company and others as these comments achieve nothing as it would also achieve nothing in face to face conversation. If the forum is to remain a place for accurate succinct information then this should stop.
    The Kapex is the best SCMS available in the market currently for accuracy, extraction, portability and has been for approx 9 years.
    The fact that a competitor, Metabo, has decided to release a SCMS that has many similarities to the Kapex and Sym 70  shows that Festool leads the way for innovation and design and I would say it is a compliment to Festool that this has been done.
    If you doubt the Kapex then do not buy but if you want accuracy, extraction, portability and the warranty policy then buy one and enjoy the benefits - Kapex is a money maker for the trades and it will repay the cost many times, the same as many other Festool machines such as of course the T.S.55......again the first and still top in its class.
   As I have met many of you around the U.K at the bigger exhibitions and also in Europe you know I am more than happy to talk Festool or trade topics and also any issues you may have.
rg
Phil
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 09:40 AM by Phil Beckley »
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline TomE

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #332 on: March 12, 2016, 10:37 AM »
Not sure where this comment is going to lead.
Quote from: Phil Beckley
The Kapex had been opened up various wires removed from position and I think cut or trapped (will have to double check that)....the report is on my desk

Considering that the machine was out of warranty, the user probably did poke around inside after the initial failure to see if the fix was something easy. If he didn't open it up then what does that mean?

We also understand the 'leading the industry' pitch, but also understand that this is what we pay the premium price for and expect leading the industry performance including durability when the saw is properly used as designed.

The abused tools that are repaired under warranty or otherwise, I completely understand the concerns, maybe there should be a "hall of shame" forum thread with anonymous pictures available from the service dept for all to see and understand that sometimes it is the fault of the user and some try to take advantage of the system.



 







Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #333 on: March 12, 2016, 01:38 PM »
 

Im not sure what you are trying to suggest here but im feeling with your remaining post regarding how some kapex arrive and how people use them regarding different blades your suggesting my kapex was in extremly poor state and I might have missed used my kapex thats why the motor has burnt out???

Curious how much more it added to the total cost having the kapex in parts.

It took me a novice working on kapex 15min to dissasemble and would take me 15mins to put it back together thats a fact.


 Hi JMB
 My comments were are an over view of the thread and a little background info - no suggestion was given on the condition of your Kapex in any way.
Could poss find out on the added costs if returned in bits.
15 minutes to strip is good going on a Kapex.
rg
Phil

Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline rizzoa13

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #334 on: March 12, 2016, 01:52 PM »
As one of the people who's saw has burned up I find festools responses to this thread extremely insulting. Repeatedly commenting on how the Kapex is the best saw on the market and will make a tradesman money many times over? Is that a serious response?

The motor on my saw has burned up.  How is the accuracy, portability and dust extraction of the saw relevant to this?


You also shouldn't see the metabo copy of your saw as flattering. You should be concerned. If metabo can create a copy of your saw without the shotty motor them your going to struggle to sell a Kapex with a better option out there.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #335 on: March 12, 2016, 02:11 PM »
Phil is entitled to his opinion just like any other poster here.

Let's keep the discussion on point and civil.

Peter


Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #336 on: March 12, 2016, 02:16 PM »
Phil is entitled to his opinion just like any other poster here.

Let's keep the discussion on point and civil.

Peter

Is Phil speaking as an employee of festool? so is it his opinion or festools?
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #337 on: March 12, 2016, 02:38 PM »
Phil is entitled to his opinion just like any other poster here.

Let's keep the discussion on point and civil.

Peter

Is Phil speaking as an employee of festool? so is it his opinion or festools?

Hi
 My comments were to add some balance to what has become a Kapex slating thread in all directions.
On the forum I was asked to represent the members from the U.K and help out with any questions on the products. On occasions such as this thread then I try and strike a balance and get involved in the same way and so I represent the company.......
rg
Phil
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Offline Jak147

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #338 on: March 12, 2016, 02:40 PM »

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #339 on: March 12, 2016, 02:41 PM »
As one of the people who's saw has burned up I find festools responses to this thread extremely insulting. Repeatedly commenting on how the Kapex is the best saw on the market and will make a tradesman money many times over? Is that a serious response?

The motor on my saw has burned up.  How is the accuracy, portability and dust extraction of the saw relevant to this?


You also shouldn't see the metabo copy of your saw as flattering. You should be concerned. If metabo can create a copy of your saw without the shotty motor them your going to struggle to sell a Kapex with a better option out there.


.......because the thread needed some balance. If Metabo make a copy of two machines from the Festool range and roll it into one - yes that is a compliment.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #340 on: March 12, 2016, 02:45 PM »
And obviously (whereas this is a thread about life span issues with some apex) the life span of the Metabo is yet to be tested in real life.

Peter

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 585
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #341 on: March 12, 2016, 03:12 PM »
You are speaking about everything EXCEPT the real issue. Fine I'll be the guy who just comes out and says it then. Do you or festool as a company feel it is acceptable for the motor to fail in less than 4 years under normal operating conditions? Is that something that your company is ok with?

Offline tomscf

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #342 on: March 12, 2016, 03:14 PM »
This is looking to be going down the road of a series of personal attacks on people in spite of the forum moderator requesting something of a ceasefire.

I would think that by now, all relevant comments from those concerned would surely have been made - hence the whole thread descending into anarchy.

I understand that people are frustrated and have perhaps been left hanging for an answer for a bit too long, wondering why no one from Festool had spoken up and now that they have, they have had everything they have said scrutinised and challenged by people who have been stirred up by many of the posts on here.

Chances are that their stance on the whole matter is largely not even in their hands and they are now in the unfortunate position of front man or "fall guy" to a lot of angry customers. I'm pretty sure that they would have loved to be able to come here after the meeting with the big chiefs and say "Kapex's have all been recalled and are to be replaced with bigger, better motors" or "we have a 10 year warranty for Kapex motors" but that is not what they've been told. What can we now reasonably expect from them? They're going to have to toe the company line until there are any more developments.

I would urge people to remain polite lest the entire thread be closed due to misuse of the forum, leaving the whole issue inaccessible and unresolved.

As I've tried to encourage before, evidence and facts about personal experiences are the only thing that Festool or any company would consider relevent when addressing issues of this sort which is apparently what everyone would like. So let's keep it all on track.

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #343 on: March 12, 2016, 03:37 PM »
This is looking to be going down the road of a series of personal attacks on people in spite of the forum moderator requesting something of a ceasefire.

I would think that by now, all relevant comments from those concerned would surely have been made - hence the whole thread descending into anarchy.

I understand that people are frustrated and have perhaps been left hanging for an answer for a bit too long, wondering why no one from Festool had spoken up and now that they have, they have had everything they have said scrutinised and challenged by people who have been stirred up by many of the posts on here.

Chances are that their stance on the whole matter is largely not even in their hands and they are now in the unfortunate position of front man or "fall guy" to a lot of angry customers. I'm pretty sure that they would have loved to be able to come here after the meeting with the big chiefs and say "Kapex's have all been recalled and are to be replaced with bigger, better motors" or "we have a 10 year warranty for Kapex motors" but that is not what they've been told. What can we now reasonably expect from them? They're going to have to toe the company line until there are any more developments.

I would urge people to remain polite lest the entire thread be closed due to misuse of the forum, leaving the whole issue inaccessible and unresolved.

As I've tried to encourage before, evidence and facts about personal experiences are the only thing that Festool or any company would consider relevent when addressing issues of this sort which is apparently what everyone would like. So let's keep it all on track.

....thank you for a balanced and concise set comments on this thread. Please all read my next post below
RG
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline JD2720

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #344 on: March 12, 2016, 03:38 PM »
This is looking to be going down the road of a series of personal attacks on people in spite of the forum moderator requesting something of a ceasefire.

I would think that by now, all relevant comments from those concerned would surely have been made - hence the whole thread descending into anarchy.


This entire website has turned into anarchy. The name needs to be changed to FCG. Festool Complainers Group.
Most post anymore are promoting other brands of tools or bashing Festool. It seems to be an organized effort.

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #345 on: March 12, 2016, 03:52 PM »
My mother used to say you cant have your cake, and eat it..
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #346 on: March 12, 2016, 03:53 PM »
Hi
  The most watched thread in FOG history........
 I have watched, read and also commented to add balance as and when I thought it necessary. I have been away for the past couple of weeks at exhibitions and again will be at Holz and Handwerk this coming week, hence why this weekend I have tried to answer some if not all the recent comments in relation to the thread.
  The thread has been watched and all relevant information has been fed back - that is the benefit of this forum. I have also been in touch with HQ over the weekend. Further comments will be posted I hope later in the week - please do not speculate on what this will be, or demand, or add side swipes at the company as this will achieve nothing. I also hope to have access to the forum but cannot guarantee this while away.
rg
Phil
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Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #347 on: March 12, 2016, 03:56 PM »
is it a trade show? or open to the public? don't work to hard..
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #348 on: March 12, 2016, 04:04 PM »
All I have been trying to get is a resolution to the problem. If you say the company has more to add on the matter then I'll keep my mouth shut and wait. My most recent outcry of complaints hs been due to what in my eyes is the unsatisfactory handling of the problem. You may feel differently but guess what? Im the guy with the broken saw.

Hopefully festools response can do something to rectify the problem for those of us who's tool has broken and feel slighted.

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #349 on: March 12, 2016, 04:07 PM »
is it a trade show? or open to the public? don't work to hard..

Hi
Information below
https://www.holz-handwerk.de/en
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #350 on: March 12, 2016, 04:14 PM »
is it a trade show? or open to the public? don't work to hard..

Hi
Information below
https://www.holz-handwerk.de/en
rg
Phil

thanks, just googled it 1200km bit far best just stick with Ron's bash
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #351 on: March 12, 2016, 04:16 PM »
is it a trade show? or open to the public? don't work to hard..

Hi
Information below
https://www.holz-handwerk.de/en
rg
Phil

thanks, just googled it 1200km bit far best just stick with Ron's bash

......will be at Rons BBQ also.....with my full body armour kit  [wink]
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #352 on: March 12, 2016, 04:38 PM »
This is looking to be going down the road of a series of personal attacks on people in spite of the forum moderator requesting something of a ceasefire.

I would think that by now, all relevant comments from those concerned would surely have been made - hence the whole thread descending into anarchy.


This entire website has turned into anarchy. The name needs to be changed to FCG. Festool Complainers Group.
Most post anymore are promoting other brands of tools or bashing Festool. It seems to be an organized effort.
And would you believe it was all done with a ball of string and a compass from a telephone box in soho
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline msc

  • Posts: 94
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #353 on: March 12, 2016, 05:08 PM »
@jmbfestool posted a reply just after @Phil Beckley one today but has now disappeared?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #354 on: March 12, 2016, 05:19 PM »
@jmbfestool posted a reply just after @Phil Beckley one today but has now disappeared?

Members can delete their own posts unless it is the first post in a new thread.  I do not see that anyone else deleted that post.

No censorship here.

Peter

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #355 on: March 12, 2016, 05:24 PM »
@jmbfestool posted a reply just after @Phil Beckley one today but has now disappeared?

Hi
 That does seem to have gone - gremlin maybe.
 Just to make it clear I messaged Peter and have asked that this thread is not closed.
It will only be shut down if it becomes personal or descends into a slanging match.
rg
Phil
There has been no trimming of the thread either
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Kev

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #356 on: March 12, 2016, 05:49 PM »
@jmbfestool posted a reply just after @Phil Beckley one today but has now disappeared?

Yeh - I was getting lost on that bit. [blink] [huh]

On this thread's sentiment, I really can't see it ending in a happy place as it's simply a matter of people having less than the experience they believe they should have and a lot of people (myself included) fearful of being in the same position.

If your 4 year old car's motor blew up after your 3 year warranty expired you wouldn't be very happy. If the car was being used as a hire car instead of an occasional driver, it would still be seen as unacceptable I feel.

If the car you purchased cost $80K and you bought it because you wanted the luxury features over a $30K car, then had to pay $30K on year 4 for a replacement motor you'd have a real gripe.

If you found out that you weren't the only person paying out $30K for a new motor, but one of many and this was in the face of all other makes of cars not experiencing similar issues you'd probably be up in arms quite seriously.

I'm not saying this as a rehash .. I'm trying to put the rational perspective on the table.

Now to continue the analogy, if the car in question was used for motor racing instead of it's typical usage .. that's a totally different story. Tools like cars can be abused beyond their intended use and fail. I'm definitely not suggesting that the KAPEX users with problems have abused their tools either, just trying to offer Festool a framework to respond to what is looming to be a significant PR problem for them.

I do love the KAPEX features, but like a car and it's motor - the core of a power tool is the "power" bit and if that fails the entire tool has failed. It's not an acceptable consolation when your expensive motor car's engine has blown up that you can still sit in the luxury seats after all.

I am NOT attempting to further speculation, I'm saying all this because I fear that Festool possibly still hasn't seen the gravity of this and the potential longer term fall out. I know the KAPEX is in a different bracket to a luxury car, but the analogy works IMO.





Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #357 on: March 12, 2016, 05:56 PM »

I am NOT attempting to further speculation, I'm saying all this because I fear that Festool possibly still hasn't seen the gravity of this and the potential longer term fall out.

Hi
  If it was not recognised then the post above from me would not have been placed.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Holmz

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #358 on: March 12, 2016, 05:58 PM »
My mother used to say you cant have your cake, and eat it..

Marie A?

Offline Dave Reinhold

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #359 on: March 12, 2016, 07:19 PM »
I hope my posts about my kapex dying don't come off as a bash. I'm not going to lie I am upset but there is no other saw on the market currently that I could see myself replacing my kapex for. I had to use a guy in the jobs saw for the day my kapex died and hated it. I'm fortunate enough to own a second kapex which I brought to work the next day. My kapex is one of the most used Festool I own followed by my Festool drills. I think and know Festool will stand behind and treat me fairly as they have done in the past with other tools I've sent in for repair.

I just sent in my ti15 and ets125 in 2 weeks ago and they were back to me extremely quickly and in better visual condition then I sent them in.  Festool blew me away with the ti15 repair l, finding the issue with the drill and installing it in a new housing so it looks brand new. The ets125 was an expensive repair but I knew that it would be because of the conversations I had with service over the phone before I sent my sander in.

I will keep everyone posted still once I hear the exact issue with my kapex. But even though my kapex just died it hasn't changed the way I feel about Festool. Their tools are the best and smoothest I've operated and they are a pleasure to use.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week