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Author Topic: Kapex life span  (Read 246689 times)

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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« on: February 05, 2016, 03:52 AM »
Me upset
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 08:08 AM by jmbfestool »
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 04:22 AM »
It is painful to get "quality" and have them not last.
However I am assuming that you consider that you got acceptable life out of the drill and track-saw?
Or how long should they be expected to last? (3 years?)

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Kapex life span
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 04:39 AM »
I've had mine over 8 years now, and it's still fine (though I suppose mine doesn't get quite as much heavy use as yours does!).

It went back to Festool twice (IIRC) in the first 3 years; once for the fence locking problem, and I honestly can't remember what the other one was for.

Or how long should they be expected to last? (3 years?)

I would think, given the cost, 3 years is too short. I think it's reasonable to expect something to last at least twice as long as the warranty, but it does depend on the level of use.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 06:15 AM »
Relatively speaking the KAPEX is not a complex machine ... electric motors these days last for ages and ages. Bearings also have extremely long lives (if the right bearings are used). In my opinion the KAPEX should last 10 years with reasonable maintenance and brush replacement before it needs major repair at the very least.

@jmbfestool I'm assuming yours is 240V ??

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Kapex life span
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 06:33 AM »
Reading on hear there seems to be more problems reported with the 110v Kapexs over the 240v. Maybe the 110v's in the UK have a harder life being site tools, I don't know.
 I would expect at least 8 years use out of my Kapex as my old Makita lasted that long and cost less than half the price of a Kapex.

Offline Sal C.

  • Posts: 4
Kapex life span
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 12:14 PM »
Been a long time guest follower of this forum and own a number of Festool products including the Domino XL, Rotex 150, TS75, and others. All have served me well in a hobbyist environment. I have also been keenly following posts on the Kapex as I would like to upgrade to it for improved accuracy and dust collection.

I just registered to the forum in order to post this note as another data point for Festool product management. This is not meant to cause argument among members but to get Festool to understand that the amount of conversation related to the Kapex and its problems is causing me (and I  assume others) to defer or avoid its purchase. In my case I am waiting for a new release of the saw. I realize that this may be off in the future; but I am not compelled to buy at this time given the list of recurring issues.

Hopefully, this feedback has value to product management and we will see a new an not only more reliable but better functioning version of the Kapex.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 01:15 PM »
Relatively speaking the KAPEX is not a complex machine ... electric motors these days last for ages and ages. Bearings also have extremely long lives (if the right bearings are used). In my opinion the KAPEX should last 10 years with reasonable maintenance and brush replacement before it needs major repair at the very least.

@jmbfestool I'm assuming yours is 240V ??

All my tools are 240v
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 01:27 PM »
It is painful to get "quality" and have them not last.
However I am assuming that you consider that you got acceptable life out of the drill and track-saw?
Or how long should they be expected to last? (3 years?)


I know how much I have used the drill and track-saw  over the years.  I do think they have served me well and although I would have liked them to have lasted me longer I do accept things wear out.

However I just done think the Kapex is living up to my expectations.  I know how much use the kapex has had over the years and I really dont believe it has lasted me long enough.  Remember this is the second time the kapex has burnt out.  The first time I just accepted that sometimes things break just annoying it happens outside of the warranty.

I never make it struggle, as soon as I hear the motor wanting to bog down I slow the cut down immediately.
Yet with the track saw and drill I have quite often pushed them to the limit. 

So I am torn.  I do like using the kapex and I love the Ug-stand brilliant for transporting.  Its compact size etc
Yet its ALOT of money for a tool with a short life span. 

I would have expected it to at least last as long as my track saw. Yet the kapex is newer and has burnt out twice. Yet the track-saw although is playing up is still working to this day.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 01:59 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jimbouk

  • Posts: 344
Kapex life span
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 01:47 PM »
I have a 8 ish year old ts55 that's seen plenty of hammer every day more or less. It's still going, dad's using it now. Heard alot of issues with the ts55r so I avoided that one.

Fingers crossed my kapex is ok at the moment. I would be seriously pi$$ed if that happened to mine after a couple of years!

Given all the horror stories I wouldn't buy another. I would go for the big bosch slider.
BHC 18, TSC 55REB, OF 1400, MIDI, TS55, TRION, Df500, CSX...

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 459
Kapex life span
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 02:26 PM »
I believe Festool guarantees to have replacement parts available for at least 7-8 years after a model is discontinued, so that gives some idea of the expected lifespan.

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Kapex life span
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 03:08 PM »
Supposed to be 10 years I believe but I have a Protool chp 26 I bought 5 years ago and can't get a switch for it as it's not on Ekat france ....

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1191
Kapex life span
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 03:17 PM »
Link to EKAT Protool.
Switch for CHP 26 has partnumber: 763140
Festoolian since 1998.
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PROTOOL:
CHP26 | PDC18 | FLC UNI | VCP260 | DSC-AGP125 | DSC-AGP230 | DSG-AGP125 | DRP16

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Kapex life span
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2016, 02:22 AM »
Cheers neelman I never would have found that.....

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 377
Kapex life span
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2016, 07:43 AM »
Self employed subcontractor carpenter here.
I bought a little Makita compound mitre saw in about 2003 or so and its still going strong with the usage I put it through.
I might not use it for a month then use it a lot the next month and when I'm fitting internal door linings/casings I don't use packers and instead make lots of slow slope wooden wedges which is quite hard on the saw.

So, I'd expect something that cost 8 or so times as much (mine cost £180) to last as long as that at the least.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 02:56 PM »
Self employed subcontractor carpenter here.
I bought a little Makita compound mitre saw in about 2003 or so and its still going strong with the usage I put it through.
I might not use it for a month then use it a lot the next month and when I'm fitting internal door linings/casings I don't use packers and instead make lots of slow slope wooden wedges which is quite hard on the saw.

So, I'd expect something that cost 8 or so times as much (mine cost £180) to last as long as that at the least.

I totally agree.

My Makita is still going strong so why doesnt a Kapex last?

I havent had time yet but when I get 5mins I am going to take my kapex apart and see whats up.

Im 100% its going to be obvious what the problem is because it felt and sounded like something just dropped out of something.

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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 08:16 PM »
@jmbfestool I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2016, 08:36 PM »
@jmbfestool I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

I would not buy the version that I keep reading about.
But I would consider one that seems more durable.

@Kev What is the model number of that Metabo SCMS?
https://sydneytools.com.au/metabo-ks-18-ltx-216-18v-li-ion-cordless-216mm-8-1-2-crosscut-mitre-saw-skin-only

??

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2016, 08:40 PM »

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Kapex life span
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2016, 09:48 PM »
That's great value with the free battery and charger.
  I really liked the original blade that came with the Metabo unfortunately my local Metabo dealer doesn't stock these blades.
  I spoke with the Metabo rep and he said he could order them in but it would take a while, so I have been using the Irwin blades and am happy with those, They cost about $35 a blade, compare that to running the Kapex every day with $250 blades.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5242
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Kapex life span
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2016, 03:33 AM »
JMB,

It depends. If your using it for 8 years for production jobs every day getting your money's worth out of it. Tools wear out. Mines because I don't do production and use it sparingly compared to you will last a lot longer.

So quit being cheap take it in get it repaired and buy the second one and get back at it.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2016, 03:36 PM »
@jmbfestool I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

Well seen as festools other tools ive had for a while and have been used alot have lasted me.
I feel festool are capable.

Sooo I would think if festool brought out a new kapex one would think they would have looked at the reasons why their kapex keep burning out and adress the issue.
Other manufacturers have managed to make chops saw to last longer.

Im sure festool are aware and I bet they have had many Kapex's in for repair with motor fail.

Its little annoying because i like the kapex.   I wont be buying another one for the workshop now i dont think because thats where it gets the most repetitive work and i want something which can last little longer. So ive now been looking at radial arm saws. 

 
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2016, 03:45 PM »
JMB,

It depends. If your using it for 8 years for production jobs every day getting your money's worth out of it. Tools wear out. Mines because I don't do production and use it sparingly compared to you will last a lot longer.

So quit being cheap take it in get it repaired and buy the second one and get back at it.

No mater what, you should always be on my side!!!! [eek]

I wont be buying another one now.

Ill get this one fixed that will be it.

Im going to buy something else but im in no rush.  Ive started changing the way i work by using my table saw more and more now.    Different way of working site and workshop.
Slowly adapting me!
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Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 391
Kapex life span
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2016, 05:18 PM »
My Kapex burnt out at 18 months old and got repaired under warranty, it's now 3.5yrs old and I am expecting the same problem again anytime soon but obviously now it's out of warranty.

 I do think Festool should step up and replace the armature etc on burnt out saws whatever the age because going on the number of problems we hear about it is not fit for purpose.

Doug

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 449
Kapex life span
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2016, 09:06 PM »
I have been reading about all of the kapex problems,and am holding off on my purchase as well.
Just the other day I went to my local festool shop,and was looking at the kapex that was on display,checking the things that I read about(fence,table,45deg bevel)
I had placed a straight edge on the table checking for a low turret,and the square -ness the the fence,then walked away to look at something else.
When I returned to the saw,there was a small drop of oil on the table of the saw that wasn't there the first inspection.

I don't know where the oil came from,but I certainly won't buy that saw.

I have decided to buy a kapex from a store and not online,because it will be easier to return from a brick and mortar store,than dealing with the online hassle.

Sorry about the rant,but it's bad when  a return is on my mind before the initial purchase has Evan happend.
Charlie

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Kapex life span
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2016, 09:45 AM »
I don't own a kapex or have any plans to buy one currently, but if festool were to improve on the design what would you change. Here's what I like about the kapex just from a spectator standpoint.

1 dust collection - again thistle is something I haven't put into practice but seems to be a selling point. If it works good enough to eliminate a hood for site set up  that's a good saw.

2 ease and precision of adjustment. The update front bevel settings that can be dialed in remain unique to this saw and if it works as good in practice as it does fiddling around with it in the store then that's a huge feature.

3 compact size and weight.  While there are lighter and more portable miter saws on the market I'm not sure how their depth of cut relates to the kapex. The forward rod design also seems to be a benefit.

4 speed control. I cut a lot of different materials at times so I love speed control on a machine.

There, I've said some nice things. Again I don't own or use one regularly so these are just observers comments for what they're worth  (admittedly not as much as user experience)

So based on comments on this forum suggested improvements would be in two areas.

Increased robustness of the motor. What do you guys think of electronic controllers on motors? Is there currently overload protection on the kapex? Perhaps a good controller would improve safety while furthering the life of the motor itself. Others might think the electronics over complicate the machine.

Fine tune adjustments for detents, and table flatness via some set screws. I always love these, most if not all of my newer machines have these fine tune adjustments on them just to make up for manufacturing error,

Ditch the lasers add some good light. Maybe the lasers work for you I don't know but in practice I haven't used a machine where I could rely on it. (Again, minimal experience with the kapex).

Anyway those are my suggestions for improving the kapex. Personally I wouldn't want to see festool focus on a cordless miter saw as their next iteration nor do I want them to focus on adding a bunch of fiddly add ons as money making accessories. It needs to be a rock solid super accurate core shop/site machine.

Offline Peter Durand

  • Posts: 191
Kapex life span
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2016, 11:09 AM »
Re the laser. I have had my kapex for a number of years now. After I adjusted the lasers to where I want them, they have been dead on perfect. All the time.

I know exactly where that cut will be.

Cheers,

Peter

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Kapex life span
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2016, 11:51 AM »
Cool, as I said I don't own the kapex so maybe it's an awesome must have. On other saws not so much, by my experience.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 462
Kapex life span
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2016, 01:47 PM »
Ditch the lasers add some good light. Maybe the lasers work for you I don't know but in practice I haven't used a machine where I could rely on it. (Again, minimal experience with the kapex).

I have a 4 buck flexible led-light (from the blue and yellow store) hitched onto my Kapex. Works for me. And as mine is a demo-model it is dead square. So, no complaints from me.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline Drich

  • Posts: 191
Kapex life span
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2016, 05:14 PM »
Well I'm glad I sold my kapex a few weeks ago. I do agree it was a very nice saw and it cuts well the few times I used it but man for over 1500 bucks now with tax it should be bullet proof. I had a 12 " Dewalt for over 15 years and cut heavy 1/4  Aluminum angle with it. PVC pipe, 4x4 pallet posts and still going strong. So buyer beware that its the chance you take with it. I just ordered a bosch 10" glide saw from Acme as it's only 549 and free ship. only a 1/3 the price.

Offline Luzzy

  • Posts: 109
Kapex life span
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2016, 07:28 PM »
Re the laser. I have had my kapex for a number of years now. After I adjusted the lasers to where I want them, they have been dead on perfect. All the time.

I know exactly where that cut will be.

Cheers,

Peter


I have a Kapex in my basement shop and have been using one since 2008 or 09. I sold my first one last year but had zero issues with it - I just wanted to get a new one with a 3 year warranty.

The Kapex laser setup with both sides of the blade is fantastic. When they are adjusted they are dead accurate and save that extra pull down to align with your mark. I forget how good they are when I don't use it for a while. I just bought the Metabo cordless miter to replace an older Dewalt 12" and it is also pretty nice but not Kapex nice. The laser reminds me of how much I miss Festool's version when I'm not working with it. Generally , on other saws , the lasers leave much to be desired:(

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Kapex life span
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2016, 01:15 PM »
I find this entire thread extremely disheartening.  Although I am not a professional builder, I built a 4800 square foot house, two large storage sheds, several large decks and dozens of furniture pieces using the same DeWalt tools which I've had for almost 20 years.  The only problem I ever had with any of those tools was the pad on my DeWalt variable speed ROS had to be replaced.  All are still in excellent working condition.

After reading about Festool and watching numerous promotional and testimonial videos, I became convinced that Festool manufactured exacting tools, built for the demanding rigors of a professional environment. So when I decided to purchase a track saw, I thought I'd give Festool a try.  I was pleased with the performance of my TS55 REQ track saw and that tool was subsequently followed by a DF500 Domino, a Carvex, an ETS EC 150/3 sander and a CT26.  I am happy to say I have been quite satisfied with the performance of all my Festool tools.  However, I would expect that each of these tools last AT LEAST 10 full years, if not double that.  I will be extremely ticked if any of these tools fails within a few years.  To me, that's just bullsh*t.  I don't think it's the least bit unrealistic to expect a tool that costs two or three times that of a competitor tool to last two or three times longer than that competitor's tool. Any premature failure would definitely turn me off to the brand.

Although I still consider myself a very happy Festool owner, after reading this and other threads regarding the Kapex, there is no way I will consider purchasing one.  My 20 year old DeWalt compound miter saw still works like new and I'm perfectly happy sticking with it.

It would be interesting if there were some consumer agency that gathered statistics on these premature failures.  I'd hope to be reassured that these failures are just a statistical anomaly which occurs in any manufacturing environment and that the vast majority of Festool tools do stand the test of time, but obviously, such is not the case.  Perhaps someone should set up a survey to try and determine the satisfied vs. unsatisfied Kapex/Festool owners...

In any event, it looks like I'll be crossing my fingers and involuntarily tightening my sphincter every time I push the little green "on" button...   

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 432
Kapex life span
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2016, 02:43 PM »
I think Festool should be replacing these failing machines with reconditioned returns and then doing an exacting teardown and analysis of what went wrong in the machines that failed.

For tools like the Kapex, Festool needs to maintain a reputation of top quality and reliability. Premature failures should be seen as totally unacceptable.

 

Offline Harvey

  • Posts: 135
Kapex life span
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2016, 03:35 PM »
The Kapex dates roughly to 2007. After nine years I think Festool has a good handle on it's weak points are.
Just a duffer

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Kapex life span
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2016, 04:39 PM »
Good point. It kinda leads me to other thoughts. When a product is first released, it is usuallythis first sku that is most expensive to produce and more prone to faults. As years pass, bugs are worked out, manufacturing improves, and usually you can buy a better all around model for less than the original sku. Later on, a completely new version is built to keep up with competing tech. That's how it's done in the tech world at least, why not here?

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Kapex life span
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2016, 06:49 PM »
I agree with Jimbo51 "Premature failures should be seen as totally unacceptable."

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 860
Kapex life span
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2016, 07:20 PM »
I wont buy one until they have a longer warranty.  It's scary to me to buy a saw that is prone to problems. I have a Dewalt dual bevel that I have had for 10 years and it still cuts great.  For me 10 years for $350 I got my money's worth.  A longer warranty in my eyes will prove that they are serious that there saw has been fixed and there is no issues.  The saw cost more than double,  so why not double the warranty? 

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Kapex life span
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2016, 08:23 PM »
I use the kapex everyday. I have been one the hardest critics of it.  It has grown on me. I used to hate lasers but I have come to see them and enjoy their use on the kapex. The larger arbor spins the blade truer than the other saws. It's compactness, weight,dust collection, and quietness do not make cuts better but make my life better. I bought it again and it is apart of my daily work flow. My local festool dealer says he has had only one motor failure. The owner admitted to pushing the saw to the limit in terms of blade sharpness. I think festool should introduce a 40 tooth low cost fast cutting blade for knock around work. I do feel the saw needs to be run with a sharp blade. I have many wish lists on the kapex but one stands out. Please add and make it an add on to the current kapex. A lock for the detente override. With the stiff but consistent turntable it lends itself to the bump method. Hold board with one hand - engage override - bump handle. Once you figure out a bump it becomes intuitive.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2016, 03:12 AM »
I use the kapex everyday. I have been one the hardest critics of it.  It has grown on me. I used to hate lasers but I have come to see them and enjoy their use on the kapex. The larger arbor spins the blade truer than the other saws. It's compactness, weight,dust collection, and quietness do not make cuts better but make my life better. I bought it again and it is apart of my daily work flow. My local festool dealer says he has had only one motor failure. The owner admitted to pushing the saw to the limit in terms of blade sharpness. I think festool should introduce a 40 tooth low cost fast cutting blade for knock around work. I do feel the saw needs to be run with a sharp blade. I have many wish lists on the kapex but one stands out. Please add and make it an add on to the current kapex. A lock for the detente override. With the stiff but consistent turntable it lends itself to the bump method. Hold board with one hand - engage override - bump handle. Once you figure out a bump it becomes intuitive.


Strange your dealer has only had one motor failure.

Dealers ive spoken to have said that if there is a problem with a kapex its pretty much always the motor that has failed and that the 110v version is alot more prone to it than the 240v. Mine is 240v.  So i say good luck to 110v owners.

Mine has failed twice.....
A dealer has told me he has fixed a couple himself.....
I struggle to believe your dealer has only had one failure?!


 
Quote
"The owner admitted to pushing the saw to the limit in terms of blade sharpness.  I think festool should introduce a 40 tooth low cost fast cutting blade for knock around work. I do feel the saw needs to be run with a sharp blade"

So not only has your dealer only had one failure your suggesting it was the kapex owners fault. You do know dealers say little white lies?

You are suggesting that people like me are pushing the saw to hard.  You are just making up excusses for festool. 

As if like NO one every uses a blunt blade on any other brand chop saw.  As if no one pushing the other branded tools to their limit.

I dont know the figures but common sense tells me a much higher percentage  of people who have bought a kapex will be using sharp blades more than any other branded tool. Also a much higher percentage of people who own a kapex wont push it as hard as any other brand.
This is because these people have spent alot of money and these people tend to have the mentality to better look after their tools. 

 I am not suggesting only festool owners look after their tools. I am saying the precentage is more likely to be higher with a kapex owner because of the cost and the reason why the person decided to buy the kapex in the first place.

When i had my  makita.  I had a new blade and i used it till it couldnt cut any more.  It would normally be cutting MDF. Then I would be needing to cut oak and find my blade cant cut it but I didnt have another blade. So i carried on struggeling. Then got another blade when i was in town.

When i bought a kapex i was amazed how smooth it cut! Like butter!  After a while when the blade dulled. I missed the super smooth cutting. So i went and bought a couple of blades.  So i could always have a sharp blade on me for when i needed it. i did same with my TS55 i have about 5 blades for it.


 
Oh forgot the Makita i still have I think is 12years old. Still going.  It always has a blunt blade because my dad uses it to cut pallets up.  Mainly american pallets which are made of hard wood. Not like our european pallets soft wood.

 Companies dont like the american pallets because they weigh more and are a odd size to our european pallets so they skip them.


« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 03:18 AM by jmbfestool »
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Online travisj

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Kapex life span
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2016, 09:47 AM »
I asked my dealer and they haven't had any failures.

Offline GhostFist

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Kapex life span
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2016, 10:28 AM »
First, jmb has been posting his projects on here for years, I'm pretty confident he knows what the heck he's doing. Besides the point however. when you design a product, you design it to be used and consider faults with reason. If someone is using their kapex as a type of mallet to drive stakes, I would expect it to stop cutting wood properly, if at all. However, if you're cutting wood, dull blade or not I would expect better performance for the ticket price as opposed to motor disintegration.

The ts saws will not cut if the motor is overloaded. Their drills will not drill if there is an overload. The tech is available and in some ways pioneered by festool.  These motors should not fail

Offline Brice Burrell

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Kapex life span
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 11:09 AM »
I asked my dealer and they haven't had any failures.

Dealers aren't necessarily the first point of service here in N. America, so they may not know if any of their customers had failures.
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Online travisj

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Kapex life span
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2016, 11:27 AM »
I asked my dealer and they haven't had any failures.

Dealers aren't necessarily the first point of service here in N. America, so they may not know if any of their customers had failures.

I wrote that in haste, I apologize.  I could have been more clear.  My dealer did not know of any failures with the armature or burning up the motors.  He did have some that were abused or had other issues.  They do a lot of service work on Porter Cable and Bosch tools, but obviously they do not repair Festool.

Offline Brice Burrell

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« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2016, 11:28 AM »
First, jmb has been posting his projects on here for years, I'm pretty confident he knows what the heck he's doing. Besides the point however. when you design a product, you design it to be used and consider faults with reason. If someone is using their kapex as a type of mallet to drive stakes, I would expect it to stop cutting wood properly, if at all. However, if you're cutting wood, dull blade or not I would expect better performance for the ticket price as opposed to motor disintegration.

The ts saws will not cut if the motor is overloaded. Their drills will not drill if there is an overload. The tech is available and in some ways pioneered by festool.  These motors should not fail

I'd guess Festool designed the Kapex with the most powerful motor they could and still have it work when plugged into their vacs.  I can't help but wonder if this compromise leaves the Kapex under powered for hard professional use.  So why not have the same overload protection that the drills and other tools have?  Well, maybe because the saw would shutdown far too often in normal use.... This is all speculation on my part.       
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 03:34 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Nigel

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Kapex life span
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2016, 12:39 PM »
I have had a cheap an cheerful scms for years with the same blade - never been sharpened, just for rough cutting because it's not very accurate. I have cut loads of Oak and even old chestnut planks for firewood and it still goes the same but hellish noisy. I wanted to upgrade to a Kapex but I'm glad I didn't now and if I had I would of put a nice blade and kept it sharp! It's a lot to shell out for limited durabilty.

Offline GhostFist

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Kapex life span
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2016, 02:53 PM »
Side note, re vacs. The starmix or rebranded metabo has a dial to set the amperage of the tool you're plugging into it. Nice idea

Offline Holmz

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Kapex life span
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2016, 03:01 PM »
...
I'd guess Festool designed the Kapex with the more powerful motor they could and still have it work when plugged into their vacs.
...

All I ever hear is "it is a system".

Offline Alex

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« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2016, 03:35 PM »
Side note, re vacs. The starmix or rebranded metabo has a dial to set the amperage of the tool you're plugging into it. Nice idea

What is the benefit?

Offline jmbfestool

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Kapex life span
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2016, 03:43 PM »
Just throwing it out there.

Im not sure because i havent found the reciept yet. Ill have a look tomorrow.

I think the kapex is 6years old.  The motor failed just under 4 years i think and has now failed again.

If i add the cost of the kapex alone and repair
The kapex has cost me to date  £200 a year

If i decided to get it repaired again (which i am not going to)
Then it will have cost me to date £250 a year roughly.
It seems life expetancy is average 3years
So it will cost me £180 a year at best to own a kapex.

Seen as i am deciding to buy a different brand chop saw.
The UG-stand and arms will become obsolete which adds to the total cost loss.

The kapex to this day has cost me
£283 a year for 6 years.

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Offline harry_

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Kapex life span
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2016, 05:08 PM »
I have a Bosch 4412 SCMS that I have owned for at least a decade. I have had various plastic parts break on it over the years but nothing that ever kept it from performing. Even had it fall out of my truck and stayed true. Very much to my grateful surprise!

I'v had the Kapex on my list for years now and like many previous in this thread an others, I am left a little weary of that purchase.
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Offline GhostFist

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Kapex life span
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2016, 06:18 PM »
Side note, re vacs. The starmix or rebranded metabo has a dial to set the amperage of the tool you're plugging into it. Nice idea

What is the benefit?
To prevent circuit overload

Offline glass1

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« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2016, 08:29 PM »
jmb.... I have known the dealer for twenty years. He is a personal friend. Said user is the one who admitted to using dull blades. Maybe it only lasts a few years. I sure hope not. I have hope festool extends the warranty on the motor. It should last 10 years. I feel your pain but none of the other new saws float my boat for various reasons.

Offline jmbfestool

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Kapex life span
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2016, 09:17 PM »
jmb.... I have known the dealer for twenty years. He is a personal friend. Said user is the one who admitted to using dull blades. Maybe it only lasts a few years. I sure hope not. I have hope festool extends the warranty on the motor. It should last 10 years. I feel your pain but none of the other new saws float my boat for various reasons.


I agree.  All other saws dont float my boat either.

They are to heavy, to big, poor dust extraction, slide to the rear etc

I love the kapex and i really would love to buy another one but i just cant afford nor justify a tool with a 3-4year life span. When others can easily last 6-7years +

Had it lasted the 6 years i would be down the shop now buying another one... Maybe even two
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Offline harry_

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« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2016, 12:43 AM »
jmb.... I have known the dealer for twenty years. He is a personal friend. Said user is the one who admitted to using dull blades. Maybe it only lasts a few years. I sure hope not. I have hope festool extends the warranty on the motor. It should last 10 years. I feel your pain but none of the other new saws float my boat for various reasons.


I agree.  All other saws dont float my boat either.

They are to heavy, to big, poor dust extraction, slide to the rear etc

I love the kapex and i really would love to buy another one but i just cant afford nor justify a tool with a 3-4year life span. When others can easily last 6-7years +

Had it lasted the 6 years i would be down the shop now buying another one... Maybe even two

But what were your gains in production in the time that you did have it?
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Offline Kev

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Kapex life span
« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2016, 03:15 AM »
Any appliance insurance companies over there that'd offer a +5 years ?

Offline TomE

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Kapex life span
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2016, 08:30 AM »
Common practice in the US to offer extended warranties on most anything, for a fee of course.

I have extended warranties on my new kitchen appliances primarily because the 'not so old' appliances they replaced failed to the point where repair was almost as costly as new replacement. I still have a freezer that's over 40 years old going strong.... simpler times I suspect.

 If there is a circuit board involved anywhere, you' re probably going to suffer failure there first. In turn, that failure can lead to failure of the parts under it's control.

This stuff reminds me of a situation, sometime back, when out-of-spec capacitors caused failures to a small batch of product produced by highly touted major manufacturers of computer motherboards.

Word of problems got out and users could check their systems visually for fat or leaking capacitors. I was lucky and didn't have problems but the small group of users who lost their systems were unhappy to say the least.

The problems with these motherboards showed first for overclockers, those folks tinker with their systems to gain max speed, usually for gaming. However, plain ol' business users who just want stuff to work, could suffer the same failures over time.

Nothing showed during testing and quality controls, the problems only showed after 'real world' use.

Don't know if Festool or affiliates offer extended warranty insurance, maybe they should.






 

 
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:33 AM by TomE »

Offline Holmz

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Kapex life span
« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2016, 08:35 AM »
...
I agree.  All other saws dont float my boat either.
...

For me it is either a Kapex or use an Erika.
I actually have 30M or architraving (skirting and moulding) to mitre this weekend.... so I'll use a track saw and MFT.

Offline Tinker

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Kapex life span
« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2016, 09:22 AM »
I have had only one SCMS, a Hitachi 8-1/2".  It is probably oover 20 years old by now.  I used it often up until I came home with a ATF 55, MFT 1080 and CT 33.  From there, it was only used sporaticly.  I never had a problem with it and it does, after taking time to adjust to perfection, still cut dead on at square.  Only a hair off at 45º.  The only saws i can compare for longevity with every day use have been my Milwaukee circular saws.  The 8-1/4 was used and abused fr over 30 years before it finally caught fire. That saw was used for cutting bricks, blocks, concrete, stone and nial and concrete impregnatd lumber.  It fell off of scaffolding and off of a moving truck on the highway.  Until it caught fire, it never quit.  My 7-1/2" Milwaukee also lasted for 330 years until i gave it to my son for his work. That was about 4 or 5 years ago and as far as i know, the saw is still in use. I have not the confidence that my Festool saws will last as lonng, even tho they will never be put to the hard work and abuse that those old circular saws from way back years ago. 

I have played with several Kapex saws and I like the ease of operation.  They operate on a different set of concepts than my Hitachi SCMS.  On my Hitachi, the only piece of plastic I can find anywhere it the little tab behind the blade to capture dust.  I have not looked to see if there are any plastic parts on the Kapex.

Brice has mentioned the possibility of a problem in running the Kapex thru the CT vacs.  Is it possible a bigger vac would help to prevent such burnouts as what is discussed in this thread. Is it the fault of the CT, the Kapex or at the panel. I had a RAS for years.  Even with no dust vac hooked up, it would often tip the fuse box and i had to wait til it cooled down.  I don't think such overloading did the saw any good even tho it trip at the panel.  Maybe Festoy needs to rethink the CT where the Kapex is being run thru them.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline jmbfestool

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Kapex life span
« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2016, 09:45 AM »
jmb.... I have known the dealer for twenty years. He is a personal friend. Said user is the one who admitted to using dull blades. Maybe it only lasts a few years. I sure hope not. I have hope festool extends the warranty on the motor. It should last 10 years. I feel your pain but none of the other new saws float my boat for various reasons.


I agree.  All other saws dont float my boat either.

They are to heavy, to big, poor dust extraction, slide to the rear etc

I love the kapex and i really would love to buy another one but i just cant afford nor justify a tool with a 3-4year life span. When others can easily last 6-7years +

Had it lasted the 6 years i would be down the shop now buying another one... Maybe even two

But what were your gains in production in the time that you did have it?

Im not sure.

I think.... Not to sure but mates have  dewalts, makitas or metabos ,when we are on site together only one of us sets up.  Sometimes its me sometimes its them.   When im using theirs i dont feel like it has taken me any longer to do the jobs.

I think the kapex just makes my life easier and more enjoyable but i dont think it has made a big impact on productivity.
Remember the UG stand didnt exist when i bought the kapex. I bought the mft top with the arm
Extentions and it was rubbish to many parts.

The UG stand to me is what has set the kapex more apart from other chopsaws.


I went to my dealer to day.  I had a look at the bosch glide.  Its bit big and heavy but the dealer is sending me one for a week to Try out.

Hes said i should send the kapex off and see what they come back with. I might aswell because i was only got to skip it. 

Hes coming round later to pick it up from mine personally and then sending it festool. I better get the kettle on for him!

« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 09:47 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Kapex life span
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2016, 09:54 AM »
...Brice has mentioned the possibility of a problem in running the Kapex thru the CT vacs.  Is it possible a bigger vac would help to prevent such burnouts as what is discussed in this thread. Is it the fault of the CT, the Kapex or at the panel. I had a RAS for years.  Even with no dust vac hooked up, it would often tip the fuse box and i had to wait til it cooled down.  I don't think such overloading did the saw any good even tho it trip at the panel.  Maybe Festoy needs to rethink the CT where the Kapex is being run thru them.
Tinker

I don't think it's the vac, it's possibly the saw that is the problem.  My guess is the motor on the Kapex is not powerful enough for hard professional use, so eventually it burns out for some users.  It has "less powerful" motor so it can be run through the vac and not trip the circuit the saw/vac is plugged into.  Not plugging the saw into a vac won't help because the saw's motor is still too underpowered for hard use. This is all speculation on my part.     
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Offline Tinker

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« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2016, 10:03 AM »
...Brice has mentioned the possibility of a problem in running the Kapex thru the CT vacs.  Is it possible a bigger vac would help to prevent such burnouts as what is discussed in this thread. Is it the fault of the CT, the Kapex or at the panel. I had a RAS for years.  Even with no dust vac hooked up, it would often tip the fuse box and i had to wait til it cooled down.  I don't think such overloading did the saw any good even tho it trip at the panel.  Maybe Festoy needs to rethink the CT where the Kapex is being run thru them.
Tinker

I don't think it's the vac, it's possibly the saw that is the problem.  My guess is the motor on the Kapex is not powerful enough for hard professional use, so eventually it burns out for some users.  It has "less powerful" motor so it can be run through the vac and not trip the circuit the saw/vac is plugged into.  Not plugging the saw into a vac won't help because the saw's motor is still too underpowered for hard use. This is all speculation on my part.     

Your speculation comes from more first hand experience than from my point of the question.  I seem to recall some pretty hefty beams that JMB showed in some of his projects.  Maybe in his case, he was on the right track when he mentioned loking at radial saws. 
Tinker
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Offline glass1

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Kapex life span
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2016, 12:52 PM »
As a side note my older non soft Start Makita ls1211 never tripped the festool vacuum or a20 amp breaker when hooked up together. 

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Offline Cheese

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« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2016, 12:55 PM »
I don't think it's the vac, it's possibly the saw that is the problem.  My guess is the motor on the Kapex is not powerful enough for hard professional use, so eventually it burns out for some users.  It has "less powerful" motor so it can be run through the vac and not trip the circuit the saw/vac is plugged into.  Not plugging the saw into a vac won't help because the saw's motor is still too underpowered for hard use. This is all speculation on my part.     

Interestingly enough I just did a quick look at 10" miter saws that included Bosch, Milwaukee, Dewalt, Makita and Hitachi, the motors on all these saws spin at 4600-5000 rpm @ 15 amps.

The Kapex spins at 3400 @ 13 amps. [sad]


 

Offline Festoolfootstool

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« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2016, 12:56 PM »
...Brice has mentioned the possibility of a problem in running the Kapex thru the CT vacs.  Is it possible a bigger vac would help to prevent such burnouts as what is discussed in this thread. Is it the fault of the CT, the Kapex or at the panel. I had a RAS for years.  Even with no dust vac hooked up, it would often tip the fuse box and i had to wait til it cooled down.  I don't think such overloading did the saw any good even tho it trip at the panel.  Maybe Festoy needs to rethink the CT where the Kapex is being run thru them.
Tinker

Its not really possible to cut big beams on the kapex its a smaller capacity saw. and if the piece of wood fits in the saw you should be able to cut it all day, day in, day out. without the motor giving up..

I don't think it's the vac, it's possibly the saw that is the problem.  My guess is the motor on the Kapex is not powerful enough for hard professional use, so eventually it burns out for some users.  It has "less powerful" motor so it can be run through the vac and not trip the circuit the saw/vac is plugged into.  Not plugging the saw into a vac won't help because the saw's motor is still too underpowered for hard use. This is all speculation on my part.     

Your speculation comes from more first hand experience than from my point of the question.  I seem to recall some pretty hefty beams that JMB showed in some of his projects.  Maybe in his case, he was on the right track when he mentioned loking at radial saws. 
Tinker
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

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Offline glass1

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Kapex life span
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2016, 05:35 PM »
Hitachi is 12 amps. Makita saws spin at 3200 same with Milwaukee. I bought the makita ls1216l when it first came out the info plate said 13.6 amps. I think current saws say 15 amps. My understanding of blade speed is the non electronic controlled motors spin faster so they maintain enough speed under load. The electronic controlled motors are supposed to maintain speed so can have a lower speed. This is cross manufacturers.

Offline unityroad

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« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2016, 06:54 PM »
Hi, i hope JMBFestool sends the saw in to see what went wrong. Anything else is speculation. It would be nice if someone from Festool chimes in. I own the USA version of the Kapex and have cut large 2 inch mahogany for 40 doors. Cut all kinds of crusty painted wood trim. Sometimes it gets left outside, rain, snow I treat it the same as any other tool when working. Back at the shop I clean it up for next days work. I drag it up 3 flights of stairs and back down daily. Yeah its a bummer for sure if JMB's saw crapped out twice. Maybe I'm lucky. I hope the OP finds an acceptable solution. Yes I would still buy another Kapex saw because it really is that good. Being able to quickly set-up, cleaner worksite, customers notice that. Not having to cut outside because "that carpenters tools puke dust all over the house"  I am not a cool-aid drinker neither, I just enjoy working with good tooling. Festool's I own only represent about 5% of the equipment I use. I also have sliding Hitachi's (3) Dewalt's (4) sliders and fixed heads, Bosch (3) fixed heads, Craftsman's (3) the old cast iron boat anchors. I still prefer the Kapex. 
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Offline Cheese

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« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2016, 10:34 PM »
Makita saws spin at 3200 same with Milwaukee.

Maybe...maybe not.


Offline Cheese

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« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2016, 10:37 PM »
@TylerC
Another picture node...
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 10:43 PM by Cheese »

Offline glass1

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« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2016, 10:50 PM »
That saw is no longer made.

Offline Cheese

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« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2016, 10:52 PM »
However it's still part of the gene pool. Check out its credentials,
20 years of cutting lumber, concrete, various metals and brick. It still works...it's also available for sale.

I haven't sold it because I'm a bit concerned if my Kapex does decide to crap out. If that happens I will be a very unhappy camper.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 11:17 PM by Cheese »

Offline galwaydude18

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« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2016, 03:52 PM »
Hey JMB did u send the saw in for repair?

Offline jmbfestool

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Kapex life span
« Reply #70 on: February 14, 2016, 04:55 AM »
Hey JMB did u send the saw in for repair?

Yes my dealer told me I should.

Said just see what they say got nothing to loose.  Dont have to repair it.

Which is fair point but I was already planning on making something with the kapex parts.

I was thinking maybe using the gear box.... grind it of as small as possible and mounting it to little invention i made a while ago which is underpowered the gear box would reduce the rotation but increase the torque.  Secondly the gliders i was thinking mounting my drill on for my pocket hole prototype i made a while ago.  Currently just using draw runners.

I had already cut the lasers off never use those bloody things anyway and was thinking of keeping them for something god knows what lol.  Mount them on cnc for tool alignments or work piece alginment so i can place a work piece any where on the bed move the gantry over workpiece turn laser on and i know its running square????

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Offline Alex

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« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2016, 09:29 AM »
Put the laser on your caulk gun, you won't make such a mess anymore.  [tongue]

Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2016, 10:44 AM »
Put the laser on your caulk gun, you won't make such a mess anymore.  [tongue]

When did i make a Mess?
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Offline Alex

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Kapex life span
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2016, 03:21 PM »
Put the laser on your caulk gun, you won't make such a mess anymore.  [tongue]

When did i make a Mess?

It's just a joke jmb.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2016, 07:58 PM »
Put the laser on your caulk gun, you won't make such a mess anymore.  [tongue]

When did i make a Mess?

It's just a joke jmb.

... and he probably intended to salvage the laser for his pocket holer  [big grin]

Offline Green Koolaide

  • Posts: 113
Kapex life span
« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2016, 02:22 AM »
Been a long time guest follower of this forum and own a number of Festool products including the Domino XL, Rotex 150, TS75, and others. All have served me well in a hobbyist environment. I have also been keenly following posts on the Kapex as I would like to upgrade to it for improved accuracy and dust collection.

I just registered to the forum in order to post this note as another data point for Festool product management. This is not meant to cause argument among members but to get Festool to understand that the amount of conversation related to the Kapex and its problems is causing me (and I  assume others) to defer or avoid its purchase. In my case I am waiting for a new release of the saw. I realize that this may be off in the future; but I am not compelled to buy at this time given the list of recurring issues.

Hopefully, this feedback has value to product management and we will see a new an not only more reliable but better functioning version of the Kapex.
I owned mine for 9 months and just sold it. 
I was so surprised to read about all the failures,  there is no way I'm spending $2k on a saw and then spend another $800 to fix it when it's out of warranty.

Stay away from this version of the Kapex,  wait till they release the next generation.
"Five out of every four people have problems with fractions"

Offline Green Koolaide

  • Posts: 113
Kapex life span
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2016, 02:32 AM »
My Kapex burnt out at 18 months old and got repaired under warranty, it's now 3.5yrs old and I am expecting the same problem again anytime soon but obviously now it's out of warranty.

 I do think Festool should step up and replace the armature etc on burnt out saws whatever the age because going on the number of problems we hear about it is not fit for purpose.

Doug
Honestly,  I personally feel that the price of a Kapex is 2-3 times the price of a regular Bosch/Dewalt because Festool has factored the replacement of one or two motors during the warranty period. 

"Five out of every four people have problems with fractions"

Offline Kev

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Kapex life span
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2016, 06:40 AM »
Honestly,  I personally feel that the price of a Kapex is 2-3 times the price of a regular Bosch/Dewalt because Festool has factored the replacement of one or two motors during the warranty period.

That's very unlikely .. as a premium brand the Festool prices and a similar relative ratio across the board to a cheaper brand's range.

I would be very interested to know if the guts of a brand new KAPEX is identical to one that's ~5 years old .. has Festool made any running improvements or are they still selling the same old thing at the premium they're charging?


Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Kapex life span
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2016, 01:10 PM »
I think Kev brings up a good question.  I'm wondering why no one from Festool has weighed in on this discussion.  It seems we would all like to know if the current Kapex has been improved.  I'd hate to think the lack of a Festool response is an acknowledgement of a faulty product...

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Kapex life span
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2016, 03:09 PM »
Do you think festool is going to come on here and say "ya sorry guys, we've been cheapening internal components to maximize profitability on the kapex, yearly. Honestly we didn't think you would notice LOL"?

Not saying that's what's happened but you get the point.

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #80 on: February 16, 2016, 03:41 PM »
I think Kev brings up a good question.  I'm wondering why no one from Festool has weighed in on this discussion.  It seems we would all like to know if the current Kapex has been improved.  I'd hate to think the lack of a Festool response is an acknowledgement of a faulty product...

Hi
 Following and reading with interest - and as no one else has then I will.
To my knowledge nothing has been changed on the Kapex since launch 06/07 - I can ask the question but cannot guarantee I will get the information.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline galwaydude18

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Kapex life span
« Reply #81 on: February 16, 2016, 05:48 PM »
Hi Phil I'd like you to ask the question as I am sure many many other member would as well.

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #82 on: February 16, 2016, 05:51 PM »
Hi Phil I'd like you to ask the question as I am sure many many other member would as well.

Hi
ok, I will email and ask. It can take a bit of time to get a reply, so be patient
rg
Phil
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Offline galwaydude18

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« Reply #83 on: February 16, 2016, 05:53 PM »
Thanks Phil :-)

Offline Steve-Rice

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« Reply #84 on: February 16, 2016, 09:28 PM »
Thanks Phil.

Much appreciated,

Steve

Offline Brice Burrell

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Kapex life span
« Reply #85 on: February 16, 2016, 09:45 PM »
Hi
 Following and reading with interest - and as no one else has then I will.
To my knowledge nothing has been changed on the Kapex since launch 06/07 - I can ask the question but cannot guarantee I will get the information.
rg
Phil

Probably nothing major, but I'm sure some things have changed.  Still, the burned up motor problem has been an issue in N. America pretty much from the beginning.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2016, 08:16 AM »
Just thought I'll give you all an update.

My dealer as you all know picked up my kapex the other day (See post #57, 11th Feb)

I called my dealer yesterday to see what's happening.

I was informed that festool have not picked up the kapex yet because they have ran out of kapex transport boxes. 

I was also told a loan kapex was being sent out for me to use while mine was being sent off but because they have no transport boxes they can't send me a loan kapex out.


That is all
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 01:50 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Holmz

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« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2016, 08:27 AM »
...
I was informed that the festool have not picked up the kapex yet because they have ran out of kapex transport boxes. 
...


W..T...F...?
 [eek]

Offline Cheese

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Kapex life span
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2016, 09:38 AM »
I was informed that the festool have not picked up the kapex yet because they have ran out of kapex transport boxes. 

I was also told a loan kapex was being sent out for me to use while mine was being sent off but because they have no transport boxes they can't send me a loan kapex out.

Wow...there seems to be a major run on the olde Kapex Transport Box.  [eek]

This development doesn't bode well for the present & future Kapex owner.  [dead horse]

Actually this is a rather macabre situation, plenty of armatures in stock but a shortage of shipping boxes. ???  [popcorn]

Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2016, 02:29 PM »
I know!! Festool are not doing them selfs any favours

Annoying thing is I LOVE THE KAPEX!

I have looked around tried other saws in store.

Size, weight, ease of use,the portable stand  non can compare to a kapex.

 If I wasnt going to transport the chopsaw then I would 100% never buy a kapex again untill they fix the motor problem maybe.... Doubt full.
 I would highly recommend any other chopsaw for workshop only.

However for transporting its the best on the market and I need to transport it.

Aaaaaaaahaaahhh
 
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Offline Jaybolishes

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« Reply #90 on: February 19, 2016, 03:00 PM »
That's a huge bomb of info jmb.  Sorry about the issues, luckily I don't know what I'm missing so I'll continue to sit on the fence and watch.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2016, 07:01 AM »
Well been round to my dealers to get some stuff.... just popped the question about my kapex hopefully it is going to be picked up today.....  [huh]
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Offline Tinker

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« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2016, 07:57 AM »
@ jmbfestool, Is that motor something you can keep on the shelf and easily replace the motor in your Kapex when it breaks down?

In my biz experiences, when I have a piece of machinery that I really need every day, or nearly every day, I keep a spare.  If i need a mower every day, I have two.  If I need two mowers every day, I keep three.  And so on.  When I was in construction, I operated the same way.  If I needed one tractor/loader, I kept two.  If I needed one ladder, I always had three.  I always did more with less labor than most of my competition and did not lose days because of breakdowns. 

I am sure the answer to my original question is that the motor cannot be easily replaced.  If that is so, but you are more profitable with using a Kapex than you are with any other SCMS, then go with the Kapex and look for a less expensive back up saw to keep you going should the Kapex fail.  If it is not fixable to your satisfaction, then look for the next best replacement and still keep a less expensive SCMS on hand.  That might even work to your advantage for the times when you need to do two different set ups for one project or operation on several pieces.

Even tho I am a oneman operation and sort of phasing myself out of biz (it'll be awhile yet, I am only 39 you know), I still keep two mowers operational.  Two weed whackers.  Two hand blowers (backpackers kill  my back) Three heavy wheeled blowers. Two extender hedge trimmers.  And etc-etc-etc...........  I just accept the fact that machinery will break down.  I can make more money with a lot less hastle when my method for repair is to keep working at what i do well and let somebody else do my machinery repairs who do that work a lot better and more efficiently than I ever can.  If they can't do my repairs, it is still cheaper for me to find somebody else to make the repairs.  Because I have spares of nearly everything, I just keep going, and going, and going.  Maybe when i get to be 40, I will get rid of the spares.
Tinker

Wayne H. Tinker

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2016, 08:51 AM »
@ jmbfestool, Is that motor something you can keep on the shelf and easily replace the motor in your Kapex when it breaks down?

In my biz experiences, when I have a piece of machinery that I really need every day, or nearly every day, I keep a spare.  If i need a mower every day, I have two.  If I need two mowers every day, I keep three.  And so on.  When I was in construction, I operated the same way.  If I needed one tractor/loader, I kept two.  If I needed one ladder, I always had three.  I always did more with less labor than most of my competition and did not lose days because of breakdowns. 

I am sure the answer to my original question is that the motor cannot be easily replaced.  If that is so, but you are more profitable with using a Kapex than you are with any other SCMS, then go with the Kapex and look for a less expensive back up saw to keep you going should the Kapex fail.  If it is not fixable to your satisfaction, then look for the next best replacement and still keep a less expensive SCMS on hand.  That might even work to your advantage for the times when you need to do two different set ups for one project or operation on several pieces.

Even tho I am a oneman operation and sort of phasing myself out of biz (it'll be awhile yet, I am only 39 you know), I still keep two mowers operational.  Two weed whackers.  Two hand blowers (backpackers kill  my back) Three heavy wheeled blowers. Two extender hedge trimmers.  And etc-etc-etc...........  I just accept the fact that machinery will break down.  I can make more money with a lot less hastle when my method for repair is to keep working at what i do well and let somebody else do my machinery repairs who do that work a lot better and more efficiently than I ever can.  If they can't do my repairs, it is still cheaper for me to find somebody else to make the repairs.  Because I have spares of nearly everything, I just keep going, and going, and going.  Maybe when i get to be 40, I will get rid of the spares.
Tinker

I have another chopsaw and stand with it.

I just dont like it. Its heavy and not as easy to use in regards of beveling etc.

It has been used mainly for just cutting up pallets and scrap wood. Now im having to use it for fine work.  Not ideal.

Regarding having a spare motor wouldnt be a bad idea apart from festool wont repair just parts they only repair the entire tool.   So if a motor was to fail I couldnt send the other part to be repaired it would require the entire tool.

To make is easy to swap it would need the motor, motor housing and electronics. You can then swap these within in 15mins. However these total upto about £300+ i think sooooo doesnt seem worth it


Im just updating whats happening i feel disappointed.  Im disappointed the tool doesnt last long enough and when it does break down there is no urgency to get it sorted.
Im curious what the repair costs might be.  I dont think ill be excited about it.

Im disapointed ive not found a chopsaw i want to replace the kapex with yet i like.
Currently im left with repair costs or new kapex..... [sad]



   
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Offline bub254

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Kapex life span
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2016, 11:26 AM »
A world of difference between festool uk and here in the US.  I sent a used domino in for repair and they were on the phone two days later walking me through proper operation and such.  Shipped it out and got it back in about a week.   I'd be proper ticked if I would have gotten the run around.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2016, 02:06 PM »
A world of difference between festool uk and here in the US.  I sent a used domino in for repair and they were on the phone two days later walking me through proper operation and such.  Shipped it out and got it back in about a week.   I'd be proper ticked if I would have gotten the run around.

In the past the service has been good.

Im not sure if its dealer festool relationship which makes the difference regarding festool service. 

The dealer ive bought most my festools from i havent been in contact with for a while now because i havent been needing to buy any festools. When i had a problem his festool rep was hot on and sorted me out brilliantly.

It was when festool price fixed and he was able to give me good deals but also rapid delivery were as my local dealer took longer to get the stuff then this other dealer was able to get it delivered to my home adress. 
When festool got stopped by the EU for price fixing the dealer stopped stocking as much and so I had to wait. So I now use my local dealer more for everything as before I only used them for fixings,glue paint etc.

It was a while ago so maybe festool has slacked off abit regarding service....?

I havent had to do much my self regarding running around. My dealer came round to pick up the chopsaw from me within a few hours of talking to me about it.  Then it was left with them.


 
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Offline Doug S

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Kapex life span
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2016, 03:22 PM »
I find it's best to deal directly with Festool for repairs etc then you know exactly what is happening with things and you can sometimes push it along a bit. I stopped using my local dealer because everything took so long with him.

Doug

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2016, 04:16 PM »
@jmbfestool

I feel for you on this - Festool doesn't deserve you money if they can't support their premium promise.

Have you looked at the Metabo KGS 254/315 Plus models? I've only read about them, but on paper and for the price I'd give them a look.

(there's a few different KGS offerings, with significant feature differences - I think t's important to look at the "plus" versions, the others look at bit rubbish)



The induction motor version could be interesting .. a bit big and clumsy compared to a KAPEX, but they're an option!

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2016, 05:01 PM »
A world of difference between festool uk and here in the US.  I sent a used domino in for repair and they were on the phone two days later walking me through proper operation and such.  Shipped it out and got it back in about a week.   I'd be proper ticked if I would have gotten the run around.

......same service levels are here in the U.K as well. From when a machine hits the delivery floor it can be back out to the customer within 48hrs. Talking customers through the operation of a machine is a daily occurrence as well, I should know as I do it along with the End User Team who cover most of the U.K.
RG
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2016, 05:04 PM »
I find it's best to deal directly with Festool for repairs etc then you know exactly what is happening with things and you can sometimes push it along a bit. I stopped using my local dealer because everything took so long with him.

Doug

..........the whole process is simplified if contact is with the end user. However it can be part of the service from dealer partners to accept the machine for repair and then collection is arranged.
rg
Phil
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #100 on: February 22, 2016, 05:06 PM »
Regarding having a spare motor wouldnt be a bad idea apart from festool wont repair just parts they only repair the entire tool.   So if a motor was to fail I couldnt send the other part to be repaired it would require the entire tool.

To make is easy to swap it would need the motor, motor housing and electronics. You can then swap these within in 15mins. However these total upto about £300+ i think sooooo doesnt seem worth it


Im just updating whats happening i feel disappointed.  Im disappointed the tool doesnt last long enough and when it does break down there is no urgency to get it sorted.
Im curious what the repair costs might be.  I dont think ill be excited about it.

Im disapointed ive not found a chopsaw i want to replace the kapex with yet i like.
Currently im left with repair costs or new kapex..... [sad]



   
[/quote]

......legislation dictates that we have to repair the machine to working order and not just 'part repairs'.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Kev

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« Reply #101 on: February 22, 2016, 05:10 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #102 on: February 22, 2016, 05:21 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

........a variety of reasons can cause delay - on occasions the courier may not arrive for example. The process replies on communication and of course timing for shipping.

.........all warranty repairs for the U.K and Ireland are carried out by Festool U.K - once the machine is out of warranty it is up to the owner to decide which repair centre to use, either Festool or a dealer in which case the dealer can charge at their choice - free market etc
rg
Phil
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #103 on: February 22, 2016, 05:28 PM »

In the past the service has been good.

Im not sure if its dealer festool relationship which makes the difference regarding festool service. 

 When i had a problem his festool rep was hot on and sorted me out brilliantly.

It was a while ago so maybe festool has slacked off abit regarding service....?

My dealer came round to pick up the chopsaw from me within a few hours of talking to me about it.  Then it was left with them.

Hi
......it should all be part of the service. Having a good relationship with a dealer will always pay off - no different to any other walk in life
......no slacking off on Service from the U.K and all the Service team try to ensure the machines are returned within 48 hrs and that the whole system runs smoothly
.......cool of the dealer to collect - service and relationships can be a real benefit
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Holmz

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Kapex life span
« Reply #104 on: February 22, 2016, 05:55 PM »
Many Bosch and metabo owners are not lucky enough to experience the customer service.

Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #105 on: February 22, 2016, 05:58 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

Im not sure how you have come to that conclusion from Phils comment.

Im not saying you are wrong and it might well be but that would indicate that my dealer is seriously lying not just a dealers white ly.

Phil can properly confirm this but festool well not accept kapex being shipped any other way but via their transport box.  My dealer told me he said they would ship it screwed to a pallet but festool dont accept that method of transport.  This is understandable because it can get damaged via transport.  This means festool must send a transport box and my dealer said they dont have any to send to pick up kapex.

 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 06:02 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #106 on: February 22, 2016, 06:05 PM »
Many Bosch and metabo owners are not lucky enough to experience the customer service.

Correct - Service All Inclusive
https://www.festool.co.uk/Service/Pages/Service-overview.aspx
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Holmz

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« Reply #107 on: February 22, 2016, 06:09 PM »
Many Bosch and metabo owners are not lucky enough to experience the customer service.

Correct - Service All Inclusive
https://www.festool.co.uk/Service/Pages/Service-overview.aspx
rg
Phil

I actually intended the post as sarcasm or irony.
I am not sure which, as most just call it a "wise " comment.

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #108 on: February 22, 2016, 06:10 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

Im not sure how you have come to that conclusion from Phils comment.

Im not saying you are wrong and it might well be but that would indicate that my dealer is seriously lying not just a dealers white ly.

Phil can properly confirm this but festool well not accept kapex being shipped any other way but via their transport box.  My dealer told me he said they would ship it screwed to a pallet but festool dont accept that method of transport.  This is understandable because it can get damaged via transport.  This means festool must send a transport box and my dealer said they dont have any to send to pick up kapex.

Hi
 Screwing a Kapex to a pallet is not really an acceptable way to transport it. A couple of points - courier companies have a duty of care to employees so the machine has to packed accordingly hence why we use the boxes.
  On occasions we have run out of boxes but when a box is sent out it is up to the courier company to stick to the timetable and sometimes returns do not come back in good time. We have more than required to cover but glitches do happen even when all bases are apparently covered
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #109 on: February 22, 2016, 06:11 PM »

In the past the service has been good.

Im not sure if its dealer festool relationship which makes the difference regarding festool service. 

 When i had a problem his festool rep was hot on and sorted me out brilliantly.

It was a while ago so maybe festool has slacked off abit regarding service....?

My dealer came round to pick up the chopsaw from me within a few hours of talking to me about it.  Then it was left with them.

Hi
......it should all be part of the service. Having a good relationship with a dealer will always pay off - no different to any other walk in life
......no slacking off on Service from the U.K and all the Service team try to ensure the machines are returned within 48 hrs and that the whole system runs smoothly
.......cool of the dealer to collect - service and relationships can be a real benefit
rg
Phil

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #110 on: February 22, 2016, 06:11 PM »
Many Bosch and metabo owners are not lucky enough to experience the customer service.

Correct - Service All Inclusive
https://www.festool.co.uk/Service/Pages/Service-overview.aspx
rg
Phil

I actually intended the post as sarcasm or irony.
I am not sure which, as most just call it a "wise " comment.

...... [smile] still the best though
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Kev

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« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2016, 06:12 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

Im not sure how you have come to that conclusion from Phils comment.

Im not saying you are wrong and it might well be but that would indicate that my dealer is seriously lying not just a dealers white ly.

Phil can properly confirm this but festool well not accept kapex being shipped any other way but via their transport box.  My dealer told me he said they would ship it screwed to a pallet but festool dont accept that method of transport.  This is understandable because it can get damaged via transport.  This means festool must send a transport box and my dealer said they dont have any to send to pick up kapex.

The 48hour repair service only starts from when the tool arrives at festool repair centre like Phil said......   Now this is just speculation on my part...

Why has it taken festool so long to send a transport box?  Is it because many have been damaged and they havent been replaced so festool are short on boxes?
Is it because festool have many kapex's in for repair and so all boxes are in use
Or
Is it festool cant keep up with repair overall and so for them to keep the 48hour turn around they delay the pick off tool so that it it buys them more time.
Or
A mix up and some one just didnt send a box out all this time?

Well .. not servicing your machine at any level because a box isn't available is insane .. that could be costing a pro thousands a day simply because a tool isn't available to your job [eek]

We'd probably need Phil to confirm or deny the shipping box excuse in relation to your dealer and whether the issues are central to KAPEX or more general based on what you're saying.

Bottom line though, if I was in your shoes I'd be uber cranky! How many KAPEX machines should you have to buy to know you'll be able to reliably use one of them [sad]

I really like my KAPEX, but the growing saga of motor failure can damage your confidence in the tool.


Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2016, 06:14 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

Im not sure how you have come to that conclusion from Phils comment.

Im not saying you are wrong and it might well be but that would indicate that my dealer is seriously lying not just a dealers white ly.

Phil can properly confirm this but festool well not accept kapex being shipped any other way but via their transport box.  My dealer told me he said they would ship it screwed to a pallet but festool dont accept that method of transport.  This is understandable because it can get damaged via transport.  This means festool must send a transport box and my dealer said they dont have any to send to pick up kapex.

Hi
 Screwing a Kapex to a pallet is not really an acceptable way to transport it. A couple of points - courier companies have a duty of care to employees so the machine has to packed accordingly hence why we use the boxes.
  On occasions we have run out of boxes but when a box is sent out it is up to the courier company to stick to the timetable and sometimes returns do not come back in good time. We have more than required to cover but glitches do happen even when all bases are apparently covered
rg
Phil

I totally agree screwing to a pallet wouldnt be the best method.  However I did offer to my dealer I would personally make a plywood box for the kapex but I was told to leave it with him. 
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #113 on: February 22, 2016, 06:14 PM »

In the past the service has been good.

Im not sure if its dealer festool relationship which makes the difference regarding festool service. 

 When i had a problem his festool rep was hot on and sorted me out brilliantly.

It was a while ago so maybe festool has slacked off abit regarding service....?

My dealer came round to pick up the chopsaw from me within a few hours of talking to me about it.  Then it was left with them.

Hi
......it should all be part of the service. Having a good relationship with a dealer will always pay off - no different to any other walk in life
......no slacking off on Service from the U.K and all the Service team try to ensure the machines are returned within 48 hrs and that the whole system runs smoothly
.......cool of the dealer to collect - service and relationships can be a real benefit
rg
Phil

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]

Hey JMB
  Email was sent 1 hour back to find the position on the Kapex.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Kev

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Kapex life span
« Reply #114 on: February 22, 2016, 06:17 PM »

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]

Weren't you thinking along the lines of a radial arm saw recently?

On the light and easy side though -you're right in saying nothing compares to KAPEX (with UG cart and extensions I've never seen a challenger).

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #115 on: February 22, 2016, 06:19 PM »
Based on Phil's comment it sounds like a dud dealer then !!

Here in Oz my Festool dealer will ship repairs same or next day depending on the time of day you take gear in. Often see a very old CT or sander going in for love (models that haven't been sold in my Festool buying years!) Other dealers aren't as responsive.

Sadly, any link in the service chain can ruin the experience .. but the end result is all you get to judge.

Do Festool resellers mark up the cost of repairs in the UK for non warranty stuff?

Im not sure how you have come to that conclusion from Phils comment.

Im not saying you are wrong and it might well be but that would indicate that my dealer is seriously lying not just a dealers white ly.

Phil can properly confirm this but festool well not accept kapex being shipped any other way but via their transport box.  My dealer told me he said they would ship it screwed to a pallet but festool dont accept that method of transport.  This is understandable because it can get damaged via transport.  This means festool must send a transport box and my dealer said they dont have any to send to pick up kapex.

The 48hour repair service only starts from when the tool arrives at festool repair centre like Phil said......   Now this is just speculation on my part...

Why has it taken festool so long to send a transport box?  Is it because many have been damaged and they havent been replaced so festool are short on boxes?
Is it because festool have many kapex's in for repair and so all boxes are in use
Or
Is it festool cant keep up with repair overall and so for them to keep the 48hour turn around they delay the pick off tool so that it it buys them more time.
Or
A mix up and some one just didnt send a box out all this time?

Well .. not servicing your machine at any level because a box isn't available is insane .. that could be costing a pro thousands a day simply because a tool isn't available to your job [eek]

We'd probably need Phil to confirm or deny the shipping box excuse in relation to your dealer and whether the issues are central to KAPEX or more general based on what you're saying.

Bottom line though, if I was in your shoes I'd be uber cranky! How many KAPEX machines should you have to buy to know you'll be able to reliably use one of them [sad]

I really like my KAPEX, but the growing saga of motor failure can damage your confidence in the tool.

hi
  Hopefully this will not turn into 'Kapex boxgate' and I am sure there is a simple reason as to why there was a delay with shipping from the dealer - I will ask and get back to you.
  We have had machines returned in all manner of containers - Kapex are safer in a box that Festool U.K supply for collection and returns.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #116 on: February 22, 2016, 06:21 PM »
Many Bosch and metabo owners are not lucky enough to experience the customer service.

Correct - Service All Inclusive
https://www.festool.co.uk/Service/Pages/Service-overview.aspx
rg
Phil

I actually intended the post as sarcasm or irony.
I am not sure which, as most just call it a "wise " comment.

...... [smile] still the best though
rg
Phil

And I like the look of the Kapex, so it am watching all with interest.
You're a gentleman Phil.

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #117 on: February 22, 2016, 06:21 PM »

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]

Weren't you thinking along the lines of a radial arm saw recently?

On the light and easy side though -you're right in saying nothing compares to KAPEX (with UG cart and extensions I've never seen a challenger).

....wow a radial arm saw, apprenticeship days them  [wink]
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #118 on: February 22, 2016, 06:25 PM »

In the past the service has been good.

Im not sure if its dealer festool relationship which makes the difference regarding festool service. 

 When i had a problem his festool rep was hot on and sorted me out brilliantly.

It was a while ago so maybe festool has slacked off abit regarding service....?

My dealer came round to pick up the chopsaw from me within a few hours of talking to me about it.  Then it was left with them.

Hi
......it should all be part of the service. Having a good relationship with a dealer will always pay off - no different to any other walk in life
......no slacking off on Service from the U.K and all the Service team try to ensure the machines are returned within 48 hrs and that the whole system runs smoothly
.......cool of the dealer to collect - service and relationships can be a real benefit
rg
Phil

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]

Hey JMB
  Email was sent 1 hour back to find the position on the Kapex.
rg
Phil

Thank you.

It would be nice to see what has happend to see if it was just a miss communication or my dealer not giving me the full story to whats gone on although i dont see a reason why they would ly. 
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Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2016, 06:36 PM »

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]

Weren't you thinking along the lines of a radial arm saw recently?

On the light and easy side though -you're right in saying nothing compares to KAPEX (with UG cart and extensions I've never seen a challenger).

Well I was thinking of buying another kapex one for workshop yes and carry on using the other kapex for site.  I already had plans in my head on how to build the bench to house the kapex on and using my old kapex arm extension from my old kapex stand.

I would have said about 2-3months time I would have bought the new kapex.  I dont know how I would have felt if this kapex had then blown up after I just bought the new one......

I do know now I wont be buying a kapex for the workshop so the metabo you've linked to or the bosch or even a radial arm are at play at the moment.  Im in no rush for that though.   I do own another chopsaw and I have a table saw so I can get by

When festool did that week givaway of tools i wanted to win the kapex i thought that would be ideal lol.  unfortunately I didnt win.
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Offline mwahaha

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« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2016, 01:55 AM »
I wonder how much it would cost for an engineer to put another (bullet proof) motor in. Probably wouldn't look as pretty as a stock one though, and it would never ever be able to be sent to festool for anything ever again.
Makin' chips since ages ago

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Offline Kev

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« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2016, 02:39 AM »
I wonder how much it would cost for an engineer to put another (bullet proof) motor in. Probably wouldn't look as pretty as a stock one though, and it would never ever be able to be sent to festool for anything ever again.

More than a broken one is worth if you want it to be decent job!! Plus you could never sell a FrankenKapex, but even a broken Kapex has value to someone comfortable with buying it with a view to repair.

I'm saying this in the most positive way ... it's a shame other things don't go wrong with the Kapex - then you'd be able to make a good one out of two with different failures!!

Offline jmbfestool

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Kapex life span
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2016, 03:09 AM »
I wonder how much it would cost for an engineer to put another (bullet proof) motor in. Probably wouldn't look as pretty as a stock one though, and it would never ever be able to be sent to festool for anything ever again.

More than a broken one is worth if you want it to be decent job!! Plus you could never sell a FrankenKapex, but even a broken Kapex has value to someone comfortable with buying it with a view to repair.

I'm saying this in the most positive way ... it's a shame other things don't go wrong with the Kapex - then you'd be able to make a good one out of two with different failures!!

Yeah well funnily enough my dealer said he has two broken kapex's  which he said i can have one to repair mine with unfortunately they are 110v.

Gutted!

 
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2016, 08:22 AM »

In the past the service has been good.

Im not sure if its dealer festool relationship which makes the difference regarding festool service. 

 When i had a problem his festool rep was hot on and sorted me out brilliantly.

It was a while ago so maybe festool has slacked off abit regarding service....?

My dealer came round to pick up the chopsaw from me within a few hours of talking to me about it.  Then it was left with them.

Hi
......it should all be part of the service. Having a good relationship with a dealer will always pay off - no different to any other walk in life
......no slacking off on Service from the U.K and all the Service team try to ensure the machines are returned within 48 hrs and that the whole system runs smoothly
.......cool of the dealer to collect - service and relationships can be a real benefit
rg
Phil

Yeah was brilliant. I dont live to far like 10-12mins drive but saved me stopping what i was doing.... Posting on Fog lol [tongue]

Its a shame the 48hours only starts on festool land...my kapex seems to be struggeling to get there....   Then after all this waiting I might not be happy with the repair costs... So I could have gone and got me self a new chopsaw ages ago.  [tongue]

Hey JMB
  Email was sent 1 hour back to find the position on the Kapex.
rg
Phil

Thank you.

It would be nice to see what has happend to see if it was just a miss communication or my dealer not giving me the full story to whats gone on although i dont see a reason why they would ly.

Hi
  Simple answer was late delivery of the box. The machine is due to be back with us on Wednesday morning
rg
Phil
Contacted JMB as well
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Brice Burrell

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« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2016, 09:16 AM »
Hi
  Simple answer was late delivery of the box. The machine is due to be back with us on Wednesday morning
rg
Phil
Contacted JMB as well

With the rate of failure of JMB's Kapex saws maybe Festool should give him one of the special Kapex shipping boxes so there won't be any delays next time... [tongue] [big grin]
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Bohdan

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Kapex life span
« Reply #125 on: February 23, 2016, 09:28 AM »
The shortage of kapex boxes must indicate that an awful lot of kapexs must be being shipped to and from repair  [eek]

Offline glass1

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« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2016, 12:27 PM »
It's a 240 volt saw ? You are in England doing site work 120 volt?  This is where I would look for the problem. Festool sells tools in England and they should be able to handle this  just like it is a shortcoming that the saw cannot be used with a generator.

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2016, 02:54 PM »
Hi
  Simple answer was late delivery of the box. The machine is due to be back with us on Wednesday morning
rg
Phil
Contacted JMB as well

With the rate of failure of JMB's Kapex saws maybe Festool should give him one of the special Kapex shipping boxes so there won't be any delays next time... [tongue] [big grin]

.......... [dead horse]
rg
Phil  [wink]
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #128 on: February 23, 2016, 02:56 PM »
The shortage of kapex boxes must indicate that an awful lot of kapexs must be being shipped to and from repair  [eek]

Hi
No shortage of Kapex boxes........on occasions they do not make it back to us......they also make useful storage crates  [wink]
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #129 on: February 23, 2016, 03:05 PM »
It's a 240 volt saw ? You are in England doing site work 120 volt?  This is where I would look for the problem. Festool sells tools in England and they should be able to handle this  just like it is a shortcoming that the saw cannot be used with a generator.

 Hi
 The Kapex from JMB is a 240v not 110v. Site work in the U.K is 110v and Festool products can 'handle' this - the generator out put needs to be constant sine wave form. If running from a Transformer then the higher KVA the better for performance with 'clean' input and output.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2016, 03:06 PM »
I wonder how much it would cost for an engineer to put another (bullet proof) motor in. Probably wouldn't look as pretty as a stock one though, and it would never ever be able to be sent to festool for anything ever again.

hmmm, maybe not
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2016, 03:07 PM »
It's a 240 volt saw ? You are in England doing site work 120 volt?  This is where I would look for the problem. Festool sells tools in England and they should be able to handle this  just like it is a shortcoming that the saw cannot be used with a generator.

All my tools are 240v I refuse to work on site work.  Not my kinda work any way.

Plus I am not wearing gloves, goggles, ear plugs, dust mask, hard hat all day long just for doing simple jobs like fitting skirting, hanging doors and not being allowed radio on would do my head in.
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #132 on: February 23, 2016, 03:08 PM »
It's a 240 volt saw ? You are in England doing site work 120 volt?  This is where I would look for the problem. Festool sells tools in England and they should be able to handle this  just like it is a shortcoming that the saw cannot be used with a generator.

All my tools are 240v I refuse to work on site work.  Not my kinda work any way.

Plus I am not wearing gloves, goggles, ear plugs, dust mask, hard hat all day long and not beinf allowed radio on would do my head in.


........................take that as a definite no then  [wink]
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Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #133 on: February 23, 2016, 03:12 PM »
Hi
  Just to update you
The saw was collected this morning and should land in the morning - booked in, quoted, through to service, worked on and back out (so long as any parts are in stock).
rg
Phil

Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Tinker

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« Reply #134 on: February 23, 2016, 03:31 PM »
Hi
  Just to update you
The saw was collected this morning and should land in the morning - booked in, quoted, through to service, worked on and back out (so long as any parts are in stock).
rg
Phil

Whew!
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Phil Beckley

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« Reply #135 on: February 23, 2016, 03:34 PM »
Hi
  Just to update you
The saw was collected this morning and should land in the morning - booked in, quoted, through to service, worked on and back out (so long as any parts are in stock).
rg
Phil

Whew!

....pant even !!
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Offline Davej

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« Reply #136 on: February 23, 2016, 04:03 PM »
It's a 240 volt saw ? You are in England doing site work 120 volt?  This is where I would look for the problem. Festool sells tools in England and they should be able to handle this  just like it is a shortcoming that the saw cannot be used with a generator.

All my tools are 240v I refuse to work on site work.  Not my kinda work any way.

Plus I am not wearing gloves, goggles, ear plugs, dust mask, hard hat all day long just for doing simple jobs like fitting skirting, hanging doors and not being allowed radio on would do my head in.


I gave up site work for similar reasons , although I'm still 110v .
Dave
I dont mind growing old but i refuse to grow up

Offline glass1

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« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2016, 05:26 PM »
Oh well are we special. Lol. I do much shop work but I do get a little claustrophobic when I only work in the cave. Nothing better than a good old frame job when the weather is on.   

Offline jmbfestool

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« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2016, 05:55 PM »
Oh well are we special. Lol. I do much shop work but I do get a little claustrophobic when I only work in the cave. Nothing better than a good old frame job when the weather is on.

Oh no 80% of my work is out in the field. Just not site work where you have the health and safety pricks about.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:17 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline mwahaha

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« Reply #139 on: February 23, 2016, 11:53 PM »
I wonder how much it would cost for an engineer to put another (bullet proof) motor in. Probably wouldn't look as pretty as a stock one though, and it would never ever be able to be sent to festool for anything ever again.

More than a broken one is worth if you want it to be decent job!! Plus you could never sell a FrankenKapex, but even a broken Kapex has value to someone comfortable with buying it with a view to repair.

I'm saying this in the most positive way ... it's a shame other things don't go wrong with the Kapex - then you'd be able to make a good one out of two with different failures!!

Well yes, but I was looking more at the long term value if someone really really wanted a Kapex and nothing else would do.

A Kapex is currently $2300 NZD. If they only last 4 years then that would be $6900 in 12 years at todays pricing. I bet it would cost less than $4600 to have an engineer fit a new motor that would last more than 12 years.
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #140 on: February 24, 2016, 02:27 AM »
I wonder how much it would cost for an engineer to put another (bullet proof) motor in. Probably wouldn't look as pretty as a stock one though, and it would never ever be able to be sent to festool for anything ever again.

More than a broken one is worth if you want it to be decent job!! Plus you could never sell a FrankenKapex, but even a broken Kapex has value to someone comfortable with buying it with a view to repair.

I'm saying this in the most positive way ... it's a shame other things don't go wrong with the Kapex - then you'd be able to make a good one out of two with different failures!!

Well yes, but I was looking more at the long term value if someone really really wanted a Kapex and nothing else would do.

A Kapex is currently $2300 NZD. If they only last 4 years then that would be $6900 in 12 years at todays pricing. I bet it would cost less than $4600 to have an engineer fit a new motor that would last more than 12 years.

I think 4 years is at best for proffesionals. I think mine has averaged 3 and a half.
A company not the far from me bought 4 kapex's. They all failed 6 to 12months..
The company got rid of all kapex's and bougbt a couple of bosch sliders and they have been going for 2 years now i believe.

To be fair the company does alot of repetative cutting wet cedar all day long.  The kinda work they do sounds like chopsaws might not be the correct tools for the job really?? I dont know i dont work there.




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Offline TomE

  • Posts: 131
Kapex life span
« Reply #141 on: February 24, 2016, 10:33 AM »
Quote
To be fair the company does alot of repetative cutting wet cedar all day long.  The kinda work they do sounds like chopsaws might not be the correct tools for the job really?? I dont know i dont work there.

I agree, that type of repetitive cutting is not what a chopsaw is for, they need a stationary with induction motors that'll handle the job without incessant trigger pulling.... like a radial arm saw, sliding table saw and the like.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 377
Kapex life span
« Reply #142 on: February 24, 2016, 12:40 PM »
I agree, that type of repetitive cutting is not what a chopsaw is for, they need a stationary with induction motors that'll handle the job without incessant trigger pulling.... like a radial arm saw, sliding table saw and the like.

Aye, a Bosch one [wink]

Offline TomE

  • Posts: 131
Kapex life span
« Reply #143 on: February 24, 2016, 03:48 PM »
Quote
Aye, a Bosch one [wink]

At least look at something like Omga if they still wanna just chop stuff.:)

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1973
Kapex life span
« Reply #144 on: February 24, 2016, 05:24 PM »
I have a Makita 12" chopsaw that I have a velcro strap to keep the trigger pulled that runs for hours at a time cutting aluminum extrusions for storefront fabrication.  Any tool wears more by repeatedly turning on and off.  I've hung drywall with the trigger locked on till lunch and then again until quitting time...glad I'm not doing that line of work anymore!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #145 on: February 24, 2016, 06:36 PM »
I have a Makita 12" chopsaw that I have a velcro strap to keep the trigger pulled that runs for hours at a time cutting aluminum extrusions for storefront fabrication.  Any tool wears more by repeatedly turning on and off.  I've hung drywall with the trigger locked on till lunch and then again until quitting time...glad I'm not doing that line of work anymore!

@rst

This isn't a slight on your ability to work safely .. It's very dangerous to suggest things like a velcro strap on the trigger of an SCMS on a forum where people may simply adopt it to prolong the life of their tool and not recognise the seriously increased operational hazard of the spinning blade.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #146 on: February 25, 2016, 12:43 AM »
@Kev but it mitigates carpal tunnel to the wrist ;)

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Kapex life span
« Reply #147 on: February 25, 2016, 12:48 AM »
@Kev but it mitigates carpal tunnel to the wrist ;)

You certainly get my vote for doctor of the day. [big grin]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #148 on: February 25, 2016, 12:55 AM »
@Kev but it mitigates carpal tunnel to the wrist ;)

You certainly get my vote for doctor of the day. [big grin]

Thanks @Cheese
I am still looking for someone to play nurse, but I am 'old school' on the gender.  [tongue]
(And wanting to avoid the carpel tunnel)

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Kapex life span
« Reply #149 on: February 25, 2016, 01:34 AM »
Well then just strap it up with the velcro and let her buck...gender be damned...

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Kapex life span
« Reply #150 on: February 25, 2016, 02:07 AM »
So I spoke to an engineer I know about this, and he said that if you could find a motor with the same rating or less (wouldn't want less) that was similar in size and shape, it would be relatively straightforward to put a different motor into Kapex. Or you could put in a motor with the same rating and different shape, you would just need to come up with a way of mounting it.
Makin' chips since ages ago

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #151 on: February 25, 2016, 03:19 AM »
@Kev but it mitigates carpal tunnel to the wrist ;)

@Holmz in fact it could mitigate the wrist completely !! [blink]

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #152 on: February 25, 2016, 09:33 AM »
Hello Update!

Just got of the phone from my dealer,

The cost is more of an estimate  because it didnt help with me having disassembled the kapex. I had planned on doing it my self but after speaking the the dealer to order some parts he advised me to send it in festool..  I asked if I had to put it all together or not but was told it didnt really mater so save wasting my time I left it in bits.

Festool said they normally test it all before so they can asses everything because mine was in bits this wasnt possible.   The estimated cost for the repair is £400-500.....

I decided not to take the repair route and bought another kapex.  Then im going to look at either the bosch glide or radial arm for workshop but this wont be for few months or so. .
  This would hopefully give the kapex a slightly longer life span having it for site use only.

Lets see if I have to reopen this topic in about 3-4years.....
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Offline rst

  • Posts: 1973
Kapex life span
« Reply #153 on: February 25, 2016, 09:54 AM »
I've been in industrial/commercial construction/fabrication since 1971.  As a seasoned professional, I was not advocating that casual users do something inherently dangerous, I was commenting on wear to motorized tool.  Starting and stopping any motorized tool wears it harder that continuous running.  I just replaced an 6'0" automatic sliding door that had 2.4 million cycles...there is a reason they cost $12,000.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Kapex life span
« Reply #154 on: February 25, 2016, 08:30 PM »
JMB Quote: >>>I decided not to take the repair route and bought another kapex.<<<

Been there/done that.  Not with a Kapex but with mowers. 
 
When the machine breaks down and it could cost half as much to repair as to buy new, I just work out a deal for a new machine.  either i leave the old machine with the dealer and include in the deal or take the old one (in pieces or whole) home for future parts and take a new one with me.  Breakdown tie ups can be as expensive as the repairs themselves.  The last machine I did that way was my DW planer.  The old one blew the belt.  My back was killing me when I started taking it part.  It was the old 2 blade model.  I found out the new was 3 blades.  I had to finish the table i was building by July 4 and was running behind on the time, so I just bought a new machine.

the old machine always left very minute scallops in the finished planing that I had to hand scrape to make disappear.  The new 3 blade model left walnut and maple looking and feeling like glass it cut so smooth. I figured the finish I got paid for the new tool on the first job. The old one I am rebuilding, I work on in stages.  It kills my back working on it as I cannot bend down for long periods.  It's getting so 10 minutes is a long period when bending over with wrenches and screw drivers.  I don't enjoy that type of work.  If I have to bend over with a saw, chisel, hand planer other WW toys, my back holds up much longer.  I can last for almost 11 minutes.  But I enjoy so it only feels like 12 minutes.  It was much more fun to get the new machine than fixing the old one.  [wink]
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #155 on: February 26, 2016, 11:21 AM »
...
It's getting so 10 minutes is a long period when bending over with wrenches and screw drivers.  I don't enjoy that...

Freudian...
Back to the Kapex-life.

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Kapex life span
« Reply #156 on: February 27, 2016, 01:05 PM »
...
It's getting so 10 minutes is a long period when bending over with wrenches and screw drivers.  I don't enjoy that...

Freudian...
Back to the Kapex-life.

I live my life a kapex at a time
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 01:09 PM by mwahaha »
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #157 on: February 28, 2016, 01:00 AM »
So we have a new measure .. KAPEX years. Are they shorter than dog years? Based on recent you'd go with 1 KAPEX year equals 3 dog years and 1 dog year equals 7 human years.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Kapex life span
« Reply #158 on: February 29, 2016, 05:46 PM »
I wish (for my sake) that this thread could have just died out and run its lifespan. Alas my 3 year 8 month old kapex just gave up the ghost this weekend. Same symptoms and a heck of a smell to it. So kind of it to wait until it's out of warranty to do this.

Im pretty aggravated at this point and feel kind of helpless as a consumer. It seems a large amount of these saws have this much life expectancy and it's s little disheartening. Maybe this particular tool should come with a longer warranty for it's ticket price? Maybe the manufacturer should take the time to find the issue and fix it. Not feeling like a loyal customer at this point and quickly loosing my trust in the company. That has nothing to do with customer service or how my situation gets handled but everything tk do with the fact that there hasn't been any changes to this saw to prevent premature motor failure.

An industry leading warranty is great but there are other manufactured who's saws don't break. I just wish they were as good as the kapex when it does work.

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Kapex life span
« Reply #159 on: February 29, 2016, 06:10 PM »
Crap saw,and festool don't give a stuff. or they would repair at cost, all this  crap ends up in landfill

And instead of having stupid £5000 giveaways why not repair a few hundred kapex
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 06:14 PM by Festoolfootstool »
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #160 on: March 01, 2016, 02:47 AM »
I wish (for my sake) that this thread could have just died out and run its lifespan. Alas my 3 year 8 month old kapex just gave up the ghost this weekend. Same symptoms and a heck of a smell to it. So kind of it to wait until it's out of warranty to do this.

Im pretty aggravated at this point and feel kind of helpless as a consumer. It seems a large amount of these saws have this much life expectancy and it's s little disheartening. Maybe this particular tool should come with a longer warranty for it's ticket price? Maybe the manufacturer should take the time to find the issue and fix it. Not feeling like a loyal customer at this point and quickly loosing my trust in the company. That has nothing to do with customer service or how my situation gets handled but everything tk do with the fact that there hasn't been any changes to this saw to prevent premature motor failure.

An industry leading warranty is great but there are other manufactured who's saws don't break. I just wish they were as good as the kapex when it does work.

Welcome to my world!

Mine did the same burnt out not so long after the warrenty.

I repaired it and just thought I was unlucky and I never posted it on FOG. Second time I kinda thought this aint right the world needs to know hence this thread!

Im suprised how much of a hit this thread has become and I hope it has affected festool enough so they stop ignoring the problem and do something about it. 

Kinda wish I named the Thread Kapex review or Kapex life span or anything with  having the kapex in it would have given it a better google hit for when people might google info  about kapex.

This would hopefully have brought more  people from outside of Fog.



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Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Kapex life span
« Reply #161 on: March 01, 2016, 07:57 AM »
I always thought you could edit the thread title, have you tired?
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #162 on: March 01, 2016, 08:08 AM »
I always thought you could edit the thread title, have you tired?

Yeah you can but when I did it to a thread years ago it doesnt truly change it just sticks the new title ontop if you know what i mean.  Its still linked under the old title.

It might have been a clitch at the time ill try it now see if it still does it.
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Kapex life span
« Reply #163 on: March 01, 2016, 08:12 AM »
I always thought you could edit the thread title, have you tired?

Comes as Kapex life span but everyones post still says the life span and the Url still has the life span.   So its just a sticker really over the top so google search will still require the life span no?


http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/the-life-span/

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Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 11530
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #164 on: March 01, 2016, 08:16 AM »
This might be one of those situations where I can help.  I have changed the title of the thread and it has changed the title on each post.  Obviously Google isn't going to work instantaneously, but it will in time.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Offline jimbouk

  • Posts: 344
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #165 on: March 01, 2016, 08:27 AM »
Just heard from my mate. It's happened to his 240v kapex. Got to pay to fix it. It's only ever stayed in his workshop and had an easy life. As soon as it's fixed he's flogging it and will stick with his old makita. It's older than the kapex and still going strong!

His a big festool advocate but really unhappy with this. Even saying he will never buy another tool off them.
BHC 18, TSC 55REB, OF 1400, MIDI, TS55, TRION, Df500, CSX...

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #166 on: March 01, 2016, 09:01 AM »
This might be one of those situations where I can help.  I have changed the title of the thread and it has changed the title on each post.  Obviously Google isn't going to work instantaneously, but it will in time.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Thank you!

Think its more appropriate now with having kapex in it
 [big grin]
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #167 on: March 01, 2016, 09:11 AM »
Crap saw,and festool don't give a stuff. or they would repair at cost, all this  crap ends up in landfill

And instead of having stupid £5000 giveaways why not repair a few hundred kapex

Thats what I thought its such a shame because my kapex still had everything working fine so the motor has just made the entire thing useless.

My dealer has a couple of broken 110v kapex's with burnt out motors so he dropped the new 240v off at mine the other day and he brought a broken 110v which I can use the parts for.  Saved me paying festool to have my old one sent back to me. 



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Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #168 on: March 01, 2016, 05:51 PM »
Price is going up $25 even though they keep breaking. Genius!

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #169 on: March 02, 2016, 01:59 AM »
Price is going up $25 even though they keep breaking. Genius!

But now it comes with a bonus of threw two week holidays you get to take any time in the first 3 years of KAPEX life during your repair windows. Holidays are no longer valid after your warranty expires!!

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #170 on: March 02, 2016, 03:37 AM »
An industry leading warranty is great but there are other manufactured who's saws don't break. I just wish they were as good as the kapex when it does work.

3 year warranty is hardly industry leading. A few of my tools from other manufacturers have 3 years. I believe industry leading would go to AEG powertools, they offer 6 years on the tool and 3 on the battery. I haven't seen any warranty that long anywhere else.
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline Harvey

  • Posts: 135
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #171 on: March 02, 2016, 07:30 AM »
Just heard from my mate. It's happened to his 240v kapex. Got to pay to fix it. It's only ever stayed in his workshop and had an easy life. As soon as it's fixed he's flogging it and will stick with his old makita. It's older than the kapex and still going strong!

His a big festool advocate but really unhappy with this. Even saying he will never buy another tool off them.

I've pretty much decided the Kapex will be my last Festool purchase. After my recent experience I didn't feel my dealer nor Festool gave me the support I deserved. 
Just a duffer

Offline Sal C.

  • Posts: 4
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #172 on: March 02, 2016, 05:33 PM »
The Kapex, its accuracy, dust collection, and many other attributes are appreciated by many. It does however have its issues; particularly as addressed in this post. From my perspective, a new release at this time can provide substantial improvement at the "margins" and get many to see greater value at its price point. I for one am not abandoning the make. Just waiting for an update.


Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #173 on: March 02, 2016, 05:47 PM »
Just heard from my mate. It's happened to his 240v kapex. Got to pay to fix it. It's only ever stayed in his workshop and had an easy life. As soon as it's fixed he's flogging it and will stick with his old makita. It's older than the kapex and still going strong!

His a big festool advocate but really unhappy with this. Even saying he will never buy another tool off them.


I've pretty much decided the Kapex will be my last Festool purchase. After my recent experience I didn't feel my dealer nor Festool gave me the support I deserved.

While I understand your position after going back and reading your posts, your particular situation was not the same as what others have posted here.

Sorry to read about your decision.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 07:35 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #174 on: March 02, 2016, 08:18 PM »
To me the lifespan of this saw is ~ 4 years and I haven't beaten it . That's infuriating and then to add salt to the wound the products price is going up.

The saw is amazing but it doesn't last. I would NOT recommend anyone buy a kapex as it does not hold up to even mild use. Don't make the mistake of thinking just because your a hobbyist that you'll be fine, it doesn't last.

Truthfully there is an issue with the motor of these saws and just because it's not a safety issue doesn't mean Festool couldn't initiate a recall. Car companies do it all the time when they feel something doesn't meet their quality control. Toyota has sent me multiple letters to take my trucks in through the years, that's what I call service all inclusive.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #175 on: March 02, 2016, 09:17 PM »
An industry leading warranty is great but there are other manufactured who's saws don't break. I just wish they were as good as the kapex when it does work.

3 year warranty is hardly industry leading. A few of my tools from other manufacturers have 3 years. I believe industry leading would go to AEG powertools, they offer 6 years on the tool and 3 on the battery. I haven't seen any warranty that long anywhere else.



3 years may not be an industry leading warranty, but there are plenty of industrial tool brands that actually offer far less. I believe Lamello only offers a 1 year warranty, and the same for Mafell as well as Virutex. Trumpf also used to only offer a 1 year warranty on their metalworking hand tools, and some of those make Festool look cheap. Trumpf seems to have extended their warranty to 5 years recently, and Mafell looks to have extended theirs to 3, at least for the German or European market.

Some companies get around the lower warranty period by offering a fixed repair cost with a warranty afterwards.

Offline fuzzy logic

  • Posts: 337
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #176 on: March 02, 2016, 11:17 PM »
Mafell offer 3-year warranty, so long as registered within 30 days. 
 http://www.mafell.de/en/products/extra-services.html 
(Not sure if applicable outside EU.) 

Richard (UK)

[Edit: removed one word.]
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 04:35 AM by fuzzy logic »
Decent people do the right thing - always?

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #177 on: March 02, 2016, 11:34 PM »
I recently talked with the folks at Mafell (USA) about their one year warranty. They said the saw was so good it did not need a longer warranty like Festool. I respectfully disagreed with them and said the one year warranty did not give me the confidence that Mafell had any confidence in their product. If they did, they would put their money where their mouth is. Their logic was backwards to me and made no sense.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #178 on: March 03, 2016, 02:09 AM »
I recently talked with the folks at Mafell (USA) about their one year warranty. They said the saw was so good it did not need a longer warranty like Festool. I respectfully disagreed with them and said the one year warranty did not give me the confidence that Mafell had any confidence in their product. If they did, they would put their money where their mouth is. Their logic was backwards to me and made no sense.

Once a tool gets a reputation for giving up its smoke, then it becomes a matter of "when it will fail", rather than "If it will fail".

Buying a tool with a reputation for usually failing, even with a warranty makes questionable sense.

The Mafell tools I have, do feel like quality tools, and they do not have a reputation for failing... So I feel the risk is low.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #179 on: March 03, 2016, 04:23 AM »
I recently talked with the folks at Mafell (USA) about their one year warranty. They said the saw was so good it did not need a longer warranty like Festool. I respectfully disagreed with them and said the one year warranty did not give me the confidence that Mafell had any confidence in their product. If they did, they would put their money where their mouth is. Their logic was backwards to me and made no sense.

Once a tool gets a reputation for giving up its smoke, then it becomes a matter of "when it will fail", rather than "If it will fail".

Buying a tool with a reputation for usually failing, even with a warranty makes questionable sense.

The Mafell tools I have, do feel like quality tools, and they do not have a reputation for failing... So I feel the risk is low.

That won't get a person over the first buy hump.

Regardless of tool quality (because the hump is in the way for me) I've found Mafell quite arrogant as a company.

Going a bit off topic .. I like to pick up and play with the tools I intend to buy - another reason why I've spend $0 on Mafell, yet have been delighted with the Festool buying experience locally.


Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #180 on: March 03, 2016, 06:21 AM »
I imported an Erika (would have run near $5k with all the bells and whistles in the US). This essentially left me with zero warranty. That's how much I trust Mafell equipment to not break down.

I would not pay half of what a Kapex is going for now if I needed to replace it outright (I'll probably pay to have it fixed as that amount is tolerable). That would leave me with a 3 year warranty and have me hoping that the motor goes within that 3 years, that is how little I trust Festool equipment not to break.

P.S.- this isn't my first broken festool. I've got a recon rts400  that the motor quit on me right outside of the 1 year recon warranty. Same symptoms and everything. Don't just view what I say as some disgruntled tradesman with a grudge. There's legitametly something wrong with these motors.

You can all continue to ignore the problem that many of us are having that's your decision. I just hope others see this thread before purchasing and use their informed judgement.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #181 on: March 03, 2016, 09:20 AM »
I recently talked with the folks at Mafell (USA) about their one year warranty. They said the saw was so good it did not need a longer warranty like Festool. I respectfully disagreed with them and said the one year warranty did not give me the confidence that Mafell had any confidence in their product. If they did, they would put their money where their mouth is. Their logic was backwards to me and made no sense.

Once a tool gets a reputation for giving up its smoke, then it becomes a matter of "when it will fail", rather than "If it will fail".

Buying a tool with a reputation for usually failing, even with a warranty makes questionable sense.

The Mafell tools I have, do feel like quality tools, and they do not have a reputation for failing... So I feel the risk is low.

That won't get a person over the first buy hump.

Regardless of tool quality (because the hump is in the way for me) I've found Mafell quite arrogant as a company.

Going a bit off topic .. I like to pick up and play with the tools I intend to buy - another reason why I've spend $0 on Mafell, yet have been delighted with the Festool buying experience locally.

The point was that the warranty of the Kapex will not get me over the buy hump.

Whether Mafell are arrogant does not affect their tool longevity. They are a company not a person.

On the other hand people 'feels' (emotions) about FT that seems at odds with reality.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:45 AM by Holmz »

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #182 on: March 03, 2016, 10:03 AM »
@rizzoa13
I sincerely appreciate your testimony of confidence with Mafell. Four weeks ago I did not know what a Mafell was or who they were. I need a track saw to cut an expensive table top made from solid Black Walnut. I have invested significantly in Festool and naturally was gravitating towards their two selections. After researching many threads here on the FOG,  I Iearned about Mafell and their offering. I'll keep this short and say, I am saving for the Mafell track saw. Thank you to all the help from fellow FOGgers.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #183 on: March 03, 2016, 10:29 AM »
I don't think you'll regret that choice krkww. When you run a mafell tool you can feel the difference in the motor. The cuprex motor on my Erika feels and SOUNDS bomb proof. None of tell tale electronic beeping or whine you get with the festool motors. Even the kapex when it worked always felt chintzy on the motor side of things. Now I see know why  [crying]

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #184 on: March 03, 2016, 10:59 AM »
I want Festool to succeed but I am not foolish. When I invest, I want a reasonable return on my investment. I've had tools last for decades. I once asked a carpenter for his philosophy concerning his tools. He replied, "I buy the best I can afford at the time and I take care of them and they take care of me." I've found fruitful wisdom in his council. I live by it today.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #185 on: March 03, 2016, 11:25 AM »
I remember both these topics.

Kinda thought to my self at the time must just be a small handfull off people at most with kapax motors burning up.

These were posted a few years ago!!

Fog forum
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-120-motor-burning-up/

Another topic
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/festool-kapex-motor-burnt-up/

Another topic
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-up-in-smoke/

Another topic
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-died-festool-repair-to-the-rescue!!/
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #186 on: March 03, 2016, 11:51 AM »
@Krkww
You will not be disappointed and the tracks are superior.
All the rest is the same, you can hook it up to any vacuum, and if you want you can put a Mafell/Bosch track onto Festool System-MFT.

When we first saw the Kapex the Mrs wanted one for picture framing...

Offline Nippychippy

  • Posts: 507
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #187 on: March 03, 2016, 02:47 PM »
Have Festool still not given a proper statement

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #188 on: March 03, 2016, 03:19 PM »
Have Festool still not given a proper statement

There is a price increase.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #189 on: March 03, 2016, 03:23 PM »
Have Festool still not given a proper statement

They have, there is nothing wrong the Kapex design, full stop.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Linbro

  • Posts: 203
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #190 on: March 03, 2016, 03:41 PM »
@rizzoa13
I sincerely appreciate your testimony of confidence with Mafell. Four weeks ago I did not know what a Mafell was or who they were. I need a track saw to cut an expensive table top made from solid Black Walnut. I have invested significantly in Festool and naturally was gravitating towards their two selections. After researching many threads here on the FOG,  I Iearned about Mafell and their offering. I'll keep this short and say, I am saving for the Mafell track saw. Thank you to all the help from fellow FOGgers.

The MT55 is a great choice if you work a lot with solid timber, due to the extra power. The ability to quickly change blades, when you go from crosscutting to ripping to cross cutting is also handy. You wont regret paying a bit extra for a superior saw.

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #191 on: March 03, 2016, 03:46 PM »
@Linbro
Thanks for your encouragement, I sincerely appreciate it especially in light of the significant financial investment.

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #192 on: March 03, 2016, 07:40 PM »
I'm officially part of the club!!  My kapex started smoking today, I've had my kapex since 2008. I use my saw for everything from framing to fine finish. As long as the repair cost is low and the saw lasts me another 7-8 years I'll be happy. I did shed a tear today though when the motor started smoking. My kapex is all boxed up and ready to get shipped out. I will let you guys know the damage.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline MGB

  • Posts: 111
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #193 on: March 03, 2016, 09:12 PM »
8 years not too bad, my trusty hitachi is the same age. If it went at this point I don't think I'd be mad.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 09:21 PM by MGB »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #194 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56 PM »
8 years not too bad, my trusty hitachi is the same age. If it went at this point I don't think I'd be mad.

Did you pay $1450 for it?? [huh]
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #195 on: March 03, 2016, 10:39 PM »
I still have a Milwaukee chop & a Milwaukee slider that I purchased in 2001. They both still perform fine. I replaced both of them with a Kapex but have not sold the Milwaukee gear because I'm just a tad nervous about the longevity of the Kapex.

So bottom line is, I purchased the Milwaukee chop new for $187 and the slider for $425 15 years ago. I wonder what that equates to in todays dollars, and given that they still work fine, what the cost per year has been to operate those 2 saws?

Working with the new math...that means the Milwaukee chop has cost me $1 per month...over 15 years, and it still works...

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #196 on: March 04, 2016, 01:15 AM »

The point was that the warranty of the Kapex will not get me over the buy hump.

Whether Mafell are arrogant does not affect their tool longevity. They are a company not a person.

On the other hand people 'feels' (emotions) about FT that seems at odds with reality.

Agree - exactly why I've suggested that the KAPEX warranty needs to be bumped up to at least reinstate buying confidence.

On Mafell - no issue with the tools they make, just the tools they employ!!

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #197 on: March 04, 2016, 06:12 AM »
Extending the warranty would be great but how about taking care of the customers who are dealing with the shotty equipment? It'd go quite a long way if festool got off their high horse and made a case by case analysis of these saws that the motors are dieing on.

It could go something like this:

"Customer A is sending in a Kapex with a blown motor that's less than 4 years old."

"Well it's out of warranty but that's just not an acceptable lifespan for our tools, let's send him a shipping box and take care of it."

If a deck or addition I built started to sag or have issues I'd be there the next day to fix it out of pocket. Not just to save face but because I have pride in my work and respect customers choosing me over another guy even if I'm more expensive.
 

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #198 on: March 04, 2016, 08:12 AM »
I am expecting to be fortunate in finding more time to play in my woodshop.  I have been thinking for many moons to save $$$ for a Kapex.  I have been reading about problems with the motors with receding thoughts about such a purchase.  I like the idea of having a slider that takes up no more space than a chopper and does a great job of DC.  I have finally solved my DC problems with my Hitachi slider, but not the space problem.  I have a couple of ideas for solving the space problem, one of which i mentioned in another discussion.  (A lazy susan like turn table mounted on a pair of heavy duty drawer slides that has solved some of the space problem) I am thinking that I will keep the Hitachi.  For what i paid for it and what it costs for a new one, I could probably get what i paid for it way back when it was shiny and new.  For about five years, I used it on every reject until I got my ATF 55 and 1080 MFT.  I still use it once in a while and do not foresee heavy usage.  I will just stay with what I have and work out the fitting in a small space some how.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #199 on: March 04, 2016, 09:10 AM »
I'll say Tinker that while I have some real issues with my experience with the kapex it's not a dud. When its working it's the best miter saw on the market in many ways. It's just not worth the money for how long it lasts and that should be taken into consideration by others.

Offline OttawaP

  • Posts: 14
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #200 on: March 04, 2016, 09:28 AM »
I don't know why people excuse the performance of these tools at times. I don't own a kapex but the saw obviously has either a design or quality control problem. It shouldn't fail under normal working conditions ever and last at least 10 years.

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1384
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #201 on: March 04, 2016, 09:47 AM »
If a Kapex doesn't last 15 years with heavy use it's a waste of resources and I feel

we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #202 on: March 04, 2016, 10:10 AM »
...I feel we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

^This^

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 98
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #203 on: March 04, 2016, 11:44 AM »
...I feel we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

^This^
If this is true for others, then we need to change our behavior and stop doing this so Festool realizes we are serious. As one already shared, "vote with your wallet."

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #204 on: March 04, 2016, 11:53 AM »
...I feel we're purchasing a name and not a well made/designed piece of machinery.

^This^
If this is true for others, then we need to change our behavior and stop doing this so Festool realizes we are serious. As one already shared, "vote with your wallet."

We cannot change our behaviour easily, because our behaviour comes from our belief systems.

We need to change our beliefs, and become dispassionate by trying to evaluate our selection of tools based upon facts.

On the otherhand... if people get emotional joy just from having a tool, then maybe that is the end goal.

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #205 on: March 04, 2016, 12:24 PM »
The problem is what saw do you buy to replace a kapex for field use. In a shop I don't see many issues with other saw brands. But for me the kapex is compact, lightweight, has an amazing stand, very accurate even after all these years, great dust collection, soft start so the handle doesn't jerk out of your hand and many more reasons. I thought about the Bosch but it's huge, even the 10". I do think the kapex as well as the ts55 should be made more powerful but the features they pack make it hard for me to give them up.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline Jozsef Kozma

  • Posts: 113
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #206 on: March 04, 2016, 01:34 PM »
The problem is what saw do you buy to replace a kapex for field use. In a shop I don't see many issues with other saw brands. But for me the kapex is compact, lightweight, has an amazing stand, very accurate even after all these years, great dust collection, soft start so the handle doesn't jerk out of your hand and many more reasons. I thought about the Bosch but it's huge, even the 10". I do think the kapex as well as the ts55 should be made more powerful but the features they pack make it hard for me to give them up.

Dave
There is none that comes even close to it
I own 5 sliders and 3 chop saws my partner owns a Kapex
The Kapex is on an other level with the things you mentioned
So with all that said I am going for a Kapex next week ,replacing a 10" Hitachi slider
Yes I will hope my will perform as my partners

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #207 on: March 04, 2016, 01:45 PM »
Blimey this thread has to be the longest on the FOG and no credible response from Festool!!! Come on there is obviously a problem here. Performance might be great but without reliability it doesn't doesn't mean. Ducati had great performance back in the day but they fell apart. I was all set to buy a Kapex - not now!!

<<EDIT:  Word deleted because of typing around the word filter - P.Halle, Moderator>>
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 05:52 PM by Peter Halle »

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #208 on: March 04, 2016, 03:22 PM »
Blimey this thread has to be the longest on the FOG and no credible response from Festool!!! Come on there is obviously a problem here. Performance might be great but without reliability it doesn't doesn't mean shiiiit. Ducati had great performance back in the day but they fell apart. I was all set to buy a Kapex - not now!!

@Nigel

Keep in mind the vast majority of KAPEX issues have been 110v. JMB's 240v KAPEX failure is a little different in nature and I'd guess far less frequent.

My Aussie 240v KAPEX hasn't missed a beat. Hoping it stays that way!

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 391
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #209 on: March 04, 2016, 03:38 PM »
My 240v UK Kapex failed at 18months old.

Doug

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #210 on: March 04, 2016, 05:09 PM »
Attention Festool.  I imagine this thread is uncomfortable but many here like what Festool is all about high quality made by people who could afford to hire the people who use the tools for a living. That being said, hey Festool if you go out on a limb and figure out what's going with these motor failures and/or just back them up with a real extended warranty I bet most would stand with you.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline MGB

  • Posts: 111
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #211 on: March 04, 2016, 05:31 PM »
8 years not too bad, my trusty hitachi is the same age. If it went at this point I don't think I'd be mad.

Did you pay $1450 for it?? [huh]

Hah, I was going to raise that point, but I thought there was enough negativity in this thread.

It cost me $550 cad with the hitachi stand. Kapex here is $1920, and I won't touch it with a stick  [wink]

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #212 on: March 04, 2016, 05:32 PM »
Second that. It would be nice to hear from someone affiliated with festool on whether or not they think 4 years is acceptable for a tool at this price point. (Fat chance for obvious reasons).

Don't let this die. The deflection and obvious neglect when it comes to this issue is getting annoying and is making me want to start a campaign for a response.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11530
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #213 on: March 04, 2016, 05:49 PM »
I am sure that Festool on both sides of the ocean is reading this thread.  That being said let's make sure that posts stay polite and within the forum guidelines as this thread continues.

Peter

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #214 on: March 04, 2016, 07:52 PM »
On the issue of warranty's, personally I try to buy good quality tools that I think will last a long time with proper care/maintenance, therefor I think the purpose of a warranty is to safeguard against manufacturing faults which usually are found within a year on a tool that gets a lot of use and maybe 3 years on a tool that is only used intermittently.

So i think increasing the warranty on the Kapex is pointless because it would have to be 10-12 years to be meaningful (what i consider an appropriate lifespan for a SCMS with normal trade use) and that is never going to happen, and is a little ridiculous.

Manufacturing faults happen from time to time and no manufacturer is immune no matter how many processes they put in place to prevent them. What matters most is how they are dealt with when it becomes apparent there is a problem.
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2665
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #215 on: March 04, 2016, 10:04 PM »
On the issue. . . . . . What matters most is how they are dealt with when it becomes apparent there is a problem.

This is how I intend to deal with it later this year. And around $A700 less, which may be spent on a HSC55 or PDC.


________________________________________


« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 08:40 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #216 on: March 04, 2016, 11:15 PM »
On the issue. . . . . . What matters most is how they are dealt with when it becomes apparent there is a problem.

This is how I intend to deal with it later this year. And around $A700 less, which may be spent on a HSC55 or PDC.

(Attachment Link)
________________________________________

And yes, in responding here I am well aware of my Reply #159  on this Thread but since then the topic has broadened somewhat.  [embarassed]

@Untidy Shop

Metabo even make an induction motor version that has my interest (but only as a 254mm blade version). The DC on these is supposed to be pretty good too. When I have space and want to set up a permanent SCMS station I'll probably get a Metabo 315mm and keep the KAPEX lean on use with the hope of maintaining a long life!!

...

Ahh .. just noticed you have the pic of the induction motor version [embarassed]

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #217 on: March 04, 2016, 11:20 PM »
I want an induction motor slider in the US, somebody link me up.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #218 on: March 04, 2016, 11:30 PM »
Attention Festool.  I imagine this thread is uncomfortable but many here like what Festool is all about high quality made by people who could afford to hire the people who use the tools for a living. That being said, hey Festool if you go out on a limb and figure out what's going with these motor failures and/or just back them up with a real extended warranty I bet most would stand with you.

Where do you get the information as to the place of manufacture, or %-age, being listed?

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #219 on: March 05, 2016, 02:53 AM »
I want an induction motor slider in the US, somebody link me up.

@Dovetail65 UK/Europe will be your best bet, but I don't think Metabo make an induction motor 110v version. Nothing 110v is typically sold down under.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #220 on: March 05, 2016, 02:56 AM »
All my induction machines are 220V here in the shop
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #221 on: March 05, 2016, 04:39 AM »
@Untidy Shop  I checked out the Metabo Induction saw before I bought the Kapex, nice saw I was very impressed, only down side is it's quite heavy, about 32kg that's 10kg more than the Kapex. If you are keeping it in a workshop most of the time then it shouldn't be a problem.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #222 on: March 05, 2016, 11:05 AM »
Im sure festool kapex problems are going to grow very quickly as their sales have increased over the years so every year more and more are going to blow up.  Its no cost to festool because they seem to blow up outside of the warrenty but it will cost festool their reputation.
 
It  seems like they are happy with the short life span of the kapex otherwise they would consider a redesign like they did with the carvex mk2 in a short space of time.  Thats why ive started this thread so to say we as customers are not happy with the short life span even though festool might be.

Ive looked at the new kapex and i remember one problem kapex had was the guard lever wore out and so stopped you from plunging this was because it was running on just a bar so they drilled it and bolted through attaching a bearing for the people like me who had an earlier kapex model and had to send it in for warranty.  Looking at the new ones they come with the bearings and the bolt fixed into a threaded hole and not through so its done from manufacture.

So they improved a simple part like the bearing but wont improve a major life span problem with the motor?


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Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #223 on: March 05, 2016, 11:36 AM »
Jmb festool must make loads of money repairing, out of warrantee tools so why would would they fix the problems.

If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1983
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #224 on: March 05, 2016, 12:14 PM »

I am expecting to be fortunate in finding more time to play in my woodshop.  I have been thinking for many moons to save $$$ for a Kapex.  I have been reading about problems with the motors with receding thoughts about such a purchase.  I like the idea of having a slider that takes up no more space than a chopper and does a great job of DC.  I have finally solved my DC problems with my Hitachi slider, but not the space problem.  I have a couple of ideas for solving the space problem, one of which i mentioned in another discussion.  (A lazy susan like turn table mounted on a pair of heavy duty drawer slides that has solved some of the space problem) I am thinking that I will keep the Hitachi.  For what i paid for it and what it costs for a new one, I could probably get what i paid for it way back when it was shiny and new.  For about five years, I used it on every reject until I got my ATF 55 and 1080 MFT.  I still use it once in a while and do not foresee heavy usage.  I will just stay with what I have and work out the fitting in a small space some how.
Tinker

Which Hitachi do you have Tink?  I have the RSH12 and it is great... Save for the dust collection. PM me if you can to let me know what you ended up doing as my main thought right now is to put a hood behind it. (Sad)

Cheers. Bryan.
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #225 on: March 05, 2016, 12:20 PM »
Jmb festool must make loads of money repairing, out of warrantee tools so why would would they fix the problems.

I dont make any money  [tongue]
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Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #226 on: March 05, 2016, 07:45 PM »
I have read through all 8 pages of this thread now, and I got to say I'm realy regretting buying the kapex a year ago. Luckily, in Norway all items have a two years warranty, or five years warranty for items meant to last significantly longer, according to the consumer purchase act. So I guess, I can keep my kapex for almost four years more.

I had my almost new ETS 150/3 stop working today, and also have an almost new rotex 90 where the random orbit mode doesn't work (I'm shipping it to have it repaired soon). I must say I feel a little fooled, thinking Festool was really high quality/industry grade tools, in range with Hilti for example. I expect my Festools to last at least 10 - 15 years of high/moderate use. Almost all the tools I've bought the last couple of years have been Festool (Kapex, OF1400, ETS 150/3, RO90, PDC, TSC55, MFT+), Lie Nielsen, Bosch, Makita and such. They have been bought because they were what I thought to be the highest quality tool within that segment (thoughest and with the longest life expectancy). I feel fooled by the festool-hype, and have learned that Festool is no better then the other brands out there. There is no way I would have paid that much more for the extra features/ease of use on the Festools, since these tools are used mainly as a hobby and for home improvement for me. So I think I have bought my last festool (maybe with the exception of a domino).

It is also very disappointing to see the way festool is handling this, earning money on their loyal customers, repairing their own faulty tools.

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #227 on: March 05, 2016, 08:04 PM »
Just a little comment to my own post: I know I'm being very negative, but thats only because I really wanted Festools to be as good and though as I thought they were (and the reputation has it), after reading alot about the brand here, and in different reviews. I'm truly disappointed, and even feeling a little sad, that it seems impossible to buy the same quality powertools now that one could buy for 10-20 years ago. At least there's some hand tool companies that has understood that there's people out there thats willing to pay much more if you make high quality tools.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #228 on: March 05, 2016, 08:20 PM »
Take a look at metabo for general construction stuff, their new batteries are killer.  Mafell is some seriously amazing stuff too. For finish carpentry and furniture making you'll need to look to a variety of manufacturers for each item.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #229 on: March 05, 2016, 08:27 PM »
Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #230 on: March 05, 2016, 08:27 PM »

I am expecting to be fortunate in finding more time to play in my woodshop.  I have been thinking for many moons to save $$$ for a Kapex.  I have been reading about problems with the motors with receding thoughts about such a purchase.  I like the idea of having a slider that takes up no more space than a chopper and does a great job of DC.  I have finally solved my DC problems with my Hitachi slider, but not the space problem.  I have a couple of ideas for solving the space problem, one of which i mentioned in another discussion.  (A lazy susan like turn table mounted on a pair of heavy duty drawer slides that has solved some of the space problem) I am thinking that I will keep the Hitachi.  For what i paid for it and what it costs for a new one, I could probably get what i paid for it way back when it was shiny and new.  For about five years, I used it on every reject until I got my ATF 55 and 1080 MFT.  I still use it once in a while and do not foresee heavy usage.  I will just stay with what I have and work out the fitting in a small space some how.
Tinker

Which Hitachi do you have Tink?  I have the RSH12 and it is great... Save for the dust collection. PM me if you can to let me know what you ended up doing as my main thought right now is to put a hood behind it. (Sad)

Cheers. Bryan.

@bkharman I clamped on a rubber sleve with hose clamp.  A clamp at other end for my vac hose to fit.  I found I had to really screw the clamp on the SCMS end very (extremely) tight,  or it pops off.  I have watched others use the Kapex and was amazed at how little dust escapes onto bench and floor.  I have the 8-1/2" Hitachi from somewhere around 20 years ago.  Once I spent a little extra time adjusting anything that could be adjusted on it, I was able to get acurate results for the miters.  Not so close with the beveling.  I just did not have the patience to work on that part as I almost never use it for beveling.

The biggest problem I have with the saw now that I have adjusted is the slides just pust the saw too far out into the floor space.  I still get more dust escaping than I have seen fom the Kapex demos I have watched; but the amount is acceptable now.  I am concerned about the problem with the motor that is being discussed in this discussion.  I have an ancient Bandsaw I inherited from my dad.  25 years ago, I found out it was nearly 45 years old.  It still works fine.  I have no more blades for it and will order new ones. The motor has only received new brushes as far as I know.  I have had milwaukkee circular saws that with tons of every day abuse lasted over 30 years.

I am concerned about the motor on the Kapex and a not so hot to jump on the bandwagon to get one.
Tinker

Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2665
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #231 on: March 06, 2016, 03:40 AM »
Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III
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Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #232 on: March 06, 2016, 04:22 AM »
Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III

I'm glad that you mention this, as I find it very illuminating to see who has not posted, on the short lifespan of the kapex
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #233 on: March 06, 2016, 05:55 AM »


Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III
[/quote]

Here you go.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-less-for-a-while/

A response in 6 minutes initially.

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #234 on: March 06, 2016, 06:36 AM »
I guess Festool don't want to draw any more attention to this topic, so by not responding they are hoping that the subject will die out faster. If they reply to this, it will start a discussion, and even more people will read about this. So I suggest that if Festool doesn't aleast make a statement by Monday evening, then all those who's experiencing problems write reviews and tell about their problems on eBay, axminster, Amazon and such. By saying nothing Festool is saying alot. As said before, we vote with our wallets, but that vote has already been cast. So if Festool won't listen, then let's get their new kapex customers attention.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #235 on: March 06, 2016, 06:54 AM »
I guess Festool don't want to draw any more attention to this topic, so by not responding they are hoping that the subject will die out faster. If they reply to this, it will start a discussion, and even more people will read about this. So I suggest that if Festool doesn't aleast make a statement by Monday evening, then all those who's experiencing problems write reviews and tell about their problems on eBay, axminster, Amazon and such. By saying nothing Festool is saying alot. As said before, we vote with our wallets, but that vote has already been cast. So if Festool won't listen, then let's get their new kapex customers attention.

I think that's a fair thing to do, but ONLY if you have genuinely experienced a KAPEX failure. This thread and others have made me nervous about the KAPEX I have (though mine is working flawlessly and it isn't high use either).

It would be really insightful to know the total number of units sold in 110V and 240V and the average percentage failing within warranty, 1 year out, 2 years out, etc .. but I doubt we'll ever know. Results here could be skewed or they could be indicative. I do strongly agree that Festool should make some form of statement. Even if they dismissed the failures as a small relative number and statistically acceptable to them, we'd at least know their position!

Offline Len C

  • Posts: 86
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #236 on: March 06, 2016, 09:10 AM »
As a long time Festool user and member of this forum, I thought I would chime in.  I have a lot of Festools in the workshop and I have only had an issue with one of them.....you guessed it, a KAPEX, 6 months after purchase. Service was great,  promptly fixed and returned.

It did cause me some concern and led me to purchase a Mafell Erica which I use whenever possible instead of Kapex.

While Peter and Seth do a great job moderating the forum, I believe they are volunteers and have no official "festool voice" and that is  I what I see lacking in this and other similar threads.

Recently a large German auto maker was found to have been making a defective vehicle and covered it up for years. 

I just find it disconcerting that someone from festool, someone senior, does not come on here and address this.



Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #237 on: March 06, 2016, 09:16 AM »
...
I just find it disconcerting that someone from festool, someone senior, does not come on here and address this.

There are usually rules for them not to. All media is released through a single spokesman after a legal team determines what to say.

They have a warranty, and then later a price to fx them... and we are free to choose what to do in a free market at every step along the way.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #238 on: March 06, 2016, 09:30 AM »
all I can say is that the silence is deafening.
festool is really damaging their reputation here.
as a group here on the fog we represent a good chunk of the festool fan base and are the ones in the field defending festools prices and showing the tools to our fellow carpenters .

I was thinking about buying 2 festool s  this year but I don't think I will now.
what's more is that I wont recommend  or show them off to others when they ask .


how can you stand behind your products when they are failing like this.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
    FOG Administrator
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  • Posts: 1048
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #239 on: March 06, 2016, 09:48 AM »
Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 222
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #240 on: March 06, 2016, 10:52 AM »
Much better, thank you TylerC.

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Offline Elmar50

  • Posts: 55
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #241 on: March 06, 2016, 11:16 AM »
At times, my Kapex will bog down considerably along with giving off a faintly burning smell. This occurs especially with wedge cuts. Needless to say, this is anxiety provoking and a reason why I keep my dust-generating, much  abused but reliable Ridgid 12 inch miter saw. Also, I feel obliged to caution friends about buying a Kapex; this in turn reflects badly on the brand's other products.

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #242 on: March 06, 2016, 11:19 AM »
I had kapex when they came out, never understood the love. It's a chop saw, a slider. Felt lightwieght and cheap to me. It crosscuts woods, big deal. It would have to be 50% of the cost for me to buy another simply becasue of what it does. Add in the issues? Even if they fixed all the issues it's not cost effective. The kapex doesn't cut any better than any other miter saw that's tuned properly with a nice blade and I have at least two others that  catch near as much dust, one out of the box, one with a mod.

A person could literally buy a fantastic miter saw of a different brand and use the xtra saved cash for a great Festool, something like a Rotex 150,  a Domino, a TS 75, OF 2200, etc. Those tools you can't get from another manufacture that does the same thing or are of the same quality. Some Festools are worth the high amount they cost, not any chop saw they ever could make is worth 1400.00. Add in the short lifespan and all the past problems, I just dont get who buys the thing.


It's my opinion and I'll stick to it.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 11:23 AM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #243 on: March 06, 2016, 12:25 PM »
I was in Sears a few weeks ago.  One of their Chinese saws was apparently a poor copy of the Kapex.  I'm not interested, but I am sure others will, once the patents wear out, begin to copy.  I like the idea that the Kapex takes (apparently) little more space than a typical Chop saw.  A great space saver. Othr manufacturers are coming out with space saving innovations as well.  Bosch with there slider that weighs a ton. Makita has their double slide.  Both are space savers and a whole lot less expensive than The Kapex.  I am sure that sooner, than later, some manufacturer will design, built and retail a saw that will be just as light weight, space saving and accurate as the Kapex.

Quote from Tyler C >>>Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.<<<

I am glad to see a Reply.  I have been sure that Festoy has been reading every post.  I am just as sure they do not have an answer yet.  If there is no answer to the problem, it is better not to reply, at least until they can truthfully say there is a solution.  at least we now know they are aware and will be talking about the problem.  That is a step in the right direction. It may take more than a few days, or even a couple of years, but I am sure there will be a solution.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Eoj

  • Posts: 16
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #244 on: March 06, 2016, 01:34 PM »
As a long time Festool user and member of this forum, I thought I would chime in.  I have a lot of Festools in the workshop and I have only had an issue with one of them.....you guessed it, a KAPEX, 6 months after purchase. Service was great,  promptly fixed and returned.

It did cause me some concern and led me to purchase a Mafell Erica which I use whenever possible instead of Kapex.

While Peter and Seth do a great job moderating the forum, I believe they are volunteers and have no official "festool voice" and that is  I what I see lacking in this and other similar threads.

Recently a large German auto maker was found to have been making a defective vehicle and covered it up for years. 

I just find it disconcerting that someone from festool, someone senior, does not come on here and address this.



Same experience with the Kapex ,and purchased the Mafell Erika saw .

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #245 on: March 06, 2016, 01:40 PM »
Makes 3 of us. My mafell Erika is my go to at all times unless the stock is really long or im doing crown.

Good to hear from a Festool employee. I'll wait on sending my kapex in to see if a response comes about sometime soon.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #246 on: March 06, 2016, 03:02 PM »
I had kapex when they came out, never understood the love. It's a chop saw, a slider. Felt lightwieght and cheap to me. It crosscuts woods, big deal. It would have to be 50% of the cost for me to buy another simply becasue of what it does. Add in the issues? Even if they fixed all the issues it's not cost effective. The kapex doesn't cut any better than any other miter saw that's tuned properly with a nice blade and I have at least two others that  catch near as much dust, one out of the box, one with a mod.

A person could literally buy a fantastic miter saw of a different brand and use the xtra saved cash for a great Festool, something like a Rotex 150,  a Domino, a TS 75, OF 2200, etc. Those tools you can't get from another manufacture that does the same thing or are of the same quality. Some Festools are worth the high amount they cost, not any chop saw they ever could make is worth 1400.00. Add in the short lifespan and all the past problems, I just dont get who buys the thing.


It's my opinion and I'll stick to it.

Well as you know ive bought another kapex. Couple reasons why.... I got the UGstand and i have a few blades.

Yet they werent the only reasons why I ended up reluctantly buying the kapex again.   

Can you please show me a chopsaw which equals a kapex. Tick the fallowing.

Dust extraction =
Quick easy bevel adjustment =
Small/compact =
Light weight (the most important factor when working on the job) =
set up in tight spaces/can be set up against wall =
Has a stand which is very portable which is also light weight making the total weight still acceptable for one hand lifting =
fully supporting arm extensions ( NOT the common arm extentions which just support the timber further down)=

Might have missed something out??

But even with those points i couldnt find a chop saw which ticked all those boxes.
If you forget the compact, portability, weight then there are many other brands to pick from and I would highly recommend going with any other brand not a kapex if you are workshop based but site based..... I like to see what you come up with as an alternative
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Offline 7sec153

  • Posts: 18
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #247 on: March 06, 2016, 03:05 PM »
I would like to see a conclusion to this problem.  I have invested quite a bit of money in their products based on their reputation.


Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 11530
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #248 on: March 06, 2016, 03:51 PM »
I would like to see a conclusion to this problem.  I have invested quite a bit of money in their products based on their reputation.

Have you had a product stop working and needed to be sent in for service?  Do you own a Kapex?

Peter

Offline Alan Mack

  • Posts: 25
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #249 on: March 06, 2016, 04:18 PM »
I'm just going to tiptoe into this thread and whisper that I've had my Kapex for about 6 years and have had no issues whatsoever. Also have Rotex, Carvex, CT22 and Midi, TS75, Protool Chain Mortiser, and the PDC drill. All working fine.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #250 on: March 06, 2016, 04:32 PM »
I disagree JMB. While you are right the kapex is the best mobile miter saw on the market, I can't bring myself to buy one again. I'll buck up and carry a heavier saw rather than worry about whether or not my saw is going to kick it at an innoportune time and cost me money.

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #251 on: March 06, 2016, 04:51 PM »
Jmbfestool:  and add true soft start and stop. And add quiet. If you like lasers, well 2 that actually work. You see all these amazing features are what make the shortcomings so maddening.

Offline Jozsef Kozma

  • Posts: 113
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #252 on: March 06, 2016, 05:28 PM »
JMB did  what is best for him and made his own decision
He also outlined it why
I would had probably made the same decision

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #253 on: March 06, 2016, 06:02 PM »
I would like to see a conclusion to this problem.  I have invested quite a bit of money in their products based on their reputation.


don't think I have ever based a tool purchase on a companys reputation. to expand, my first purchase was the domino and I knew next nothing about festool
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 06:24 PM by Festoolfootstool »
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #254 on: March 06, 2016, 06:03 PM »
@Untidy Shop Glad someone got to point out the quick Festool response to my post, as opposed to this thread.  I'm knee deep in work all weekend and so haven't even had a chance to test my Kapex yet.  But will report back when I do.


Hmm. So I see Edward Reno has a thread going in this sub forum about being without his kapex for a while and a festool  employee responded twice to tout their repair department. Yet not a peep in this thread? I hope everyone else is seeing how comments with negative festool connotations get ignored and positive ones get the limelight.

Is there a public link to Edward's sub Forum?


@rizzoa13  @Edward A Reno III
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #255 on: March 06, 2016, 06:45 PM »
I have to say I admire JMB's resolve to persevere with the KAPEX. Ignoring "cost" and understanding the value it brings is the real difference here and if the features give you real value that no other SCMS can, it is probably worth the gamble.

As a DIYer I went with the KAPEX because it's unique footprint, easy deployment and minimal mess meant that I could do jobs in the small windows of time I have that I simply couldn't tackle with the old HItachi setup I had (and when I say "old" I'm saying just like every other portable SCMS setup).

I have no doubt the KAPEX is the market leader on features - the other wrinkles should be addressable as its not every KAPEX that fails.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 09:11 PM by Kev »

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #256 on: March 06, 2016, 08:27 PM »
Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.

It's good to hear that you are listening, but I'm not satisfied yet. I think that Festool owe their customers, and the kapex owners in particular a statement on where you stand in this matter. I understand that a statement like this isn't something that can be made just like that, but the discontent of so many of your customers should be your top priority.

Like I mentioned I own a kapex and have not had any problems with it, and I like it alot. This tool was a big investment for me, and I realy want it and my other Festools to be good. However I have had major problems with both my Festool sanders. This won't be a big problem for me, as they are both well within the warranty period. But it ment that this saturday, when I finaly had a whole day to work on my project (which I seldom have), I had to postpone it and do something else. But whats worse is that this, along with reading here on FOG has made me start worrying that the tools I thought would last so long, will fail much sooner then I thought.

I bought these tools thinking they would last atlest 10 - 15 years of normal use. There are so many other tool brands that has sold their good name and reputation for higher profits, by reduceing build quality. And that is why I spent so much more to buy Festools (I realise other might have other thoughts and considderations). Now I'm in doubt, and I wan't an answer:

Does Festool intend to make really high (build-) quality tools that will last for decades, or should we expect Festools also to fail within 3 - 5 - 8 - 10 years of purchase?

What is an acceptable lifespan of a Festool that is beeing used several times a week (normal use)?

Do you find it fair that so many of your customers have to pay expensive repairs, for a design flaw or a low quality component in one of your products? For me, this sends the message that after the warranty is out Festool doesn't care/ we're on our own. This also says alot about life expectancy of your tools, and your attitude toward your customers.

Why haven't Festool done anything about this particular problem? As many has pointed out - this is by no means a new problem.

I hope that Festool can give us an answer to our questions, and take responisbillity (and the bill) for this problem from now on. I also really hope that Festool will differentiate them self from the other tool brands persueing a high turnaround, low price and high profits, by lowering build quality and planned obsolescence, but I fear that Festool is drifting in that direction as well. Now please prove me wrong :)

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #257 on: March 06, 2016, 09:45 PM »
I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if someone has already brought this up, but there a bit of an analog with what happened with the TS55REQ.

Remember how many threads were generated on the FOG about the difficulty of getting it set plumb at true 90?  This was owing to the lack of a positive stop on the front bevel lock.  I called up Festool service myself when I first noticed the issue with my saw, and was sort of taken aback by the response I got, in which they didn't even acknowledge that it was an issue -- my being taken aback was mainly a function of the otherwise excellent interactions I had had before (and since) the phone call.

Then quietly -- basically around the same time as the TSC55 was released -- Festool came out with an update that included the positive stop on the corded version.  You don't see those threads any more.  Changes have been made in the past in response to customer complaints, so hopefully this will happen in regard to the Kapex.   
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #258 on: March 06, 2016, 09:56 PM »
I own a "few" Festools, use various ones every day in the remodeling trade. Still waiting for my first Festool failure. Oldest one is 10+ years, newest one is 24 hours old.
Tom

Offline awshucks

  • Posts: 17
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #259 on: March 07, 2016, 12:32 AM »
My Kapex just celebrated it's first birthday, (took advantage of the Feb sale). It had issues from the get go and the service department lived up to all expectations. Since then no problems, unless you count the fact that the saw lives in my shop where I can guarantee a "clean" power supply and a dedicated 20 amp circuit with nothing else on it. I bought the saw for field work (mostly remodels in occupied homes) but after following the Kapex issues here and elsewhere I figured the the safe course was to to leave it in the shop and use my other saws (including the original Hitachi 8 1/2" C8FB bought in 1989) for job sites. It's a shame because I love the saw but at the end of the day it's too expensive to have to worry about and that's exactly the reason I bought the thing, to use on a job site and NOT worry about it. Love the saw but hate the fact that I have to baby it and worry about when the motor burns up. The Hitachi is 27 years old! Only maintenance ever has been the brushes. Would be great if Festool could tell me that they are addressing the problem and will have my back when the motor dies even if it's past the 3 year mark OR do a recall and replace the faulty parts now and let me take the thing out into the field and not worry about it.

Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #260 on: March 07, 2016, 04:33 PM »
Watching this closely. I would like a kapex but i am hessitant because of the failures and the poorer preformance of the 110v version. Having a dewalt chopsaw for over a decade i feel reluctant to drop so mich cash on something that may cost me again in 3-4years.

Need an answer on this festool

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #261 on: March 07, 2016, 04:49 PM »
Watching this closely. I would like a kapex but i am hessitant because of the failures and the poorer preformance of the 110v version. Having a dewalt chopsaw for over a decade i feel reluctant to drop so mich cash on something that may cost me again in 3-4years.

Need an answer on this festool

Must suck cus you have said for a while u wanted a kapex
after using mine and...... Leaving a lovely saw mark with a circular saw on my arm extention lol.
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Offline Deansocial

  • Posts: 2114
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #262 on: March 07, 2016, 04:53 PM »
Accidents happen.....

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #263 on: March 07, 2016, 05:23 PM »
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Offline Saskataper

  • Posts: 278
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #264 on: March 07, 2016, 11:20 PM »
I am also anxious to here if there is a solution coming, a friends Kapex just failed and has been sent in under warranty. The warranty on mine is up in the next couple months and I am seriously considering selling mine and maybe getting one of the new cordless makitas. The thought of going to an inferior saw is painful but by the sounds of it the chance of failure is bordering on being not if its going to happen but when. Then I have to pay a huge shipping and repair bill? Not so keen on that.

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #265 on: March 08, 2016, 01:08 AM »
I am also anxious to here if there is a solution coming, a friends Kapex just failed and has been sent in under warranty. The warranty on mine is up in the next couple months and I am seriously considering selling mine and maybe getting one of the new cordless makitas. The thought of going to an inferior saw is painful but by the sounds of it the chance of failure is bordering on being not if its going to happen but when. Then I have to pay a huge shipping and repair bill? Not so keen on that.


you could try giving the saw some hard work, chances are it would fail, and you would still be in the warrantee period. Once repaired  the saw would be good for another 18months or more
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #266 on: March 08, 2016, 06:36 AM »
No delibaeration on this? An update after your meeting would be nice tylerC.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #267 on: March 08, 2016, 06:57 AM »
Festool (in both Germany and other countries) are absolutely aware of this thread. Please don't mistake our silence to mean that we aren't listening. We absolutely are. I have a meeting about the Kapex tomorrow morning and will provide more information as I'm able.

For all those anxiously waiting for information, based on what @TylerC originally wrote I would suspect that he is not yet able.

Peter

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #268 on: March 08, 2016, 08:22 AM »
I'm not trying to be impatient. I'd just like this thread to not fade into obscurity is all.

Offline TylerC

  • Festool USA Employee
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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #269 on: March 08, 2016, 08:38 AM »
No delibaeration on this? An update after your meeting would be nice tylerC.

We're looking into several things and should have an update soon. We're working with several departments to look at the actual number of Kapex service/repair claims, the nature of those claims, how that compares with the actual number of Kapexes that are in the market, and how that percentage compares to Festool and industry standards. (FWIW, we constantly track and monitor the repair percentages for each tool, but -- due to concerns brought up here -- we're going a bit more in-depth.)

We want to be thorough and considerate when looking into this, and I'm hoping to have more to share later today. Thanks for your patience.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #270 on: March 08, 2016, 08:54 AM »
Thanks for the update @TylerC For your birthday we should get you one of those flak jackets they give reporters when broadcasting from active combat zones.

No delibaeration on this? An update after your meeting would be nice tylerC.

We're looking into several things and should have an update soon. We're working with several departments to look at the actual number of Kapex service/repair claims, the nature of those claims, how that compares with the actual number of Kapexes that are in the market, and how that percentage compares to Festool and industry standards. (FWIW, we constantly track and monitor the repair percentages for each tool, but -- due to concerns brought up here -- we're going a bit more in-depth.)

We want to be thorough and considerate when looking into this, and I'm hoping to have more to share later today. Thanks for your patience.
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Offline tomscf

  • Posts: 41
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #271 on: March 08, 2016, 09:36 AM »
I figured I'd weigh in on the conversation as I'm off work today and have had enough time to go through the pages of this thread.

I fit a lot of £20-30k kitchens and most of my tools are Festool and the ones that aren't will probably be replaced with their equivalent as and when I can afford to. This is not necessarily because I believe Festool to be so vastly superior to other brands but because everything sits together so well and the accuracy is something that matters to both me and my customers and I do find them to be spot on.

I use my cxs for just about everything because it's powerful enough for what I need it for and when I'm driving tiny little screws into stuff it's probably the truest running and most accurate drill I've ever owned (and I've owned a few!).

Similarly I use my Kapex for plinths/kick panels, cornice and light pelmet because It's powerful enough to do it and I can cut anything with virtually no tear out and know that it's going to fit together with a nearly invisible joint. The lasers are spot on (or at least they were until, in some moment of madness I decided to lubricate the blade using WD40 while the blade was running and made them all blurry!...I'll sort it out at some point).

I've recently purchased the of2200 for counter tops because , although I believe I could use the of1400, I figure that probably won't be good or healthy for a smaller motor and I'd rather not put that kind of strain on my incredibly expensive tools.

Back when I fitted shops, I used any old tool I could get as long as it could withstand abuse. I don't know how many tools I got through - especially drills. I was on the Makita impact drivers all day long snapping bits and screws tearing things up with an old DeWalt chop saw. They all did what I needed them to do and probably did withstand more abuse than my Festools ever would but the work wasn't pretty...it didn't need to be.

Now when I'm working, there's hardly any noise but for BBC radio 4 talking to me while I carefully manoeuvre units into place and line everything up. Now and again, usually towards the end of the job, the Kapex and the TS55 come out and instead of customers wincing and wondering if I know what the heck I'm doing, they are impressed by how little dust there is and want to know everything about my tools. It just makes the whole experience a lot nicer for everyone.

I assure you that all that was just preamble really. There's been so much ranting in this thread that I figure maybe it'd make a change to cool off a bit and read some of what I'm about as I haven't posted on here much.

This whole thread seems to have gone down a road that borders on incitement to riot. I think it very dangerous for so many to hop on a band wagon of scaremongering when only a very small percentage of people appear to have had issues with their Kapex.
The facts as I see them are that of all the people posting here, only 7 have had any failures of their saw. 2 of those were within their warranty period and to date don't appear to have failed again(?).
One failed after 8 years and was "used for everything" within that time.
The rest could well be justified in being frustrated as they appear to have failed just outside of the warranty period.
But even here, we don't know the facts completely. We don't know how these saws were treated and one person at least had already cracked the housing through an unfortunate error. Could other faults have arisen through error of another sort?

I would say here that clearly there are "tales" from friends of friends or other companies people have heard from or dealers but this is all basically heresay and as no one involved directly in those cases is here to put forward their case, I would dismiss them again due to lack of facts.

Most of the posts here that have been made from people who ACTUALLY OWN a Kapex have been very positive. The person who started the post and in spite of being given a bit of a runaround has gone and bought another one!

Those that are here who don't own one and have been scared away by a few horror stories, firstly - You have no real justification in "demanding and answer from a Festool representative" as you are not the ones with a faulty tool. And Secondly, don't be so quick to judge a machine you don't own. The majority of us seem to be very happy as it does what we need it to do and we aren't prepared to make a compromise when it comes to the benefits of this particular saw over some others. Whether that be weight, accuracy, kudos or whatever.

And those who are reading who don't comment but who remain sceptical, I'd say you need to assess your needs. If you can live with a saw that costs half as much but weighs twice as much, go for it! Why wouldn't you?! Providing it's well set up and has a sharp blade in it, you'd be a fool to think that a Kapex would be so significantly better than anything else in one particular area. For me, and many others I imagine, it's more about it being slightly better in the areas that matter more to us.
So don't pay too much attention to the nay-sayers or harbingers of doom but similarly don't get bowled along by the brand. Just make sure that whatever you decide, that your decision is ONLY based on facts.

We have no numbers on Kapex's sold vs Kapex's broken and then no further information on ones fixed within and outside of warranty period and even less information about specifics of each individual case of those that have encountered problems.

I think that we see it as being all too easy to want to rally the troops and get bowled along by a feeling of hatred and disgust against something. With the World in the turmoil as it is, maybe we're all feeling like we want everything to run smoothly with no hiccups or isolated incidents but sadly that's just not the way it is.

I would just choose to trust that my saw will be fine for years to come. Will I be gutted if it blows up outside its warranty period, of course. But would I also be gutted if something fell on my hand in work and broke my knuckle? Definitely. And given the trades that most people here are in, I'd say that a work related accident is far more statistically likely...in fact, it's the reason I'm off work today and why I was off yesterday so it's already cost me hundreds of ££!
But I'll go back to work once I'm fixed, the same as I'd buy another Kapex if it blew up. You take your chances and you hope for the best.

Keep smiling  [smile] [smile] [big grin]

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #272 on: March 08, 2016, 12:35 PM »
I just shipped out my kapex this morning, $110 for shipping!!!  Hopefully the repair cost isn't too bad. It stinks that the motor went on my kapex. I know a ton of guys with old hitachi and dealt saws that are well over 10yrs old with no issues. This is the 3rd time my kapex has been in for service, this is the first time out of warranty and with motor issues. I will keep everyone updated once I hear what's wrong with my kapex and the cost of repairs.

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline TylerC

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #273 on: March 08, 2016, 03:07 PM »
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences and concerns.

Based on the concerns mentioned in this thread, we’ve done some research, and this is what we have found. In the U.S, the Kapex does have a somewhat higher repair rate than the rest of our tools. However, it is still a very low percentage, based on the number of tools in service.  We attribute this slightly higher than average repair rate to the relative complexity of the tool, rather than any inherent design flaw or other issue. 

The anecdotal claims of issues mentioned on the FOG simply do not, in our opinion, create a reason to think that there is a widespread problem.  We are confident in the overall quality and performance of the Kapex, and believe that you should be as well.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 838
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #274 on: March 08, 2016, 03:30 PM »
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences and concerns.

Based on the concerns mentioned in this thread, we’ve done some research, and this is what we have found. In the U.S, the Kapex does have a somewhat higher repair rate than the rest of our tools. However, it is still a very low percentage, based on the number of tools in service.  We attribute this slightly higher than average repair rate to the relative complexity of the tool, rather than any inherent design flaw or other issue. 

The anecdotal claims of issues mentioned on the FOG simply do not, in our opinion, create a reason to think that there is a widespread problem.  We are confident in the overall quality and performance of the Kapex, and believe that you should be as well.

What is the main source/cause of these repairs that are higher than average (by your own admission)? If it's primarily the motor, then I don't really understand how the complexity of the tool has any bearing on that.

I don't want to cause more arguments, but your assurances are meaningless without more detailed information to back it up. What does "somewhat higher" mean in numbers?

So, for example:

If 5% of all quadrive PDC drills got repaired within 10 years of manufacture due to the clutch, gearbox, chuck, motor, trigger, battery, etc. across the board, with each cause being evenly distributed, that's one statistic.

Now let's say 8% of Kapex's get repaired (i.e. somewhat higher) but of that 8%, 90% of repairs were down to the motor, the headline of the Kapex repairs being somewhat higher but due to overall complexity doesn't tell a fraction of the story.

It's only a 3% difference overall, but it's a huge difference when you drill down into the data.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 03:34 PM by bobfog »

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #275 on: March 08, 2016, 03:31 PM »
All I can say is my saw should have lasted longer then it has lasted.  I take care of my tools, always wait for the motor to come to full speed before cutting and 90% of the time plug the ct vac directly into an outlet. I know the other guys I work with have different brand miter saws that they had before I got my kapex and those saws are still working. The other brand saws are mainly used for framing and azek work while my kapex is babied and used indoors. I'm interested to see how Festool works with me on the repair of my kapex. The expensive shipping rate did make me cry a little this morning!!! 

Dave
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
  • The trouble with Bob is its all about Bob
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #276 on: March 08, 2016, 03:36 PM »
If festool sold paint it would probably be whitewash
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #277 on: March 08, 2016, 03:47 PM »
@tomscf - Noice mate. Well done.

Offline TylerC

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #278 on: March 08, 2016, 04:06 PM »
I don't want to cause more arguments, but your assurances are meaningless without more detailed information to back it up. What does "somewhat higher" mean in numbers?

To be blunt, we're not going to be publicly releasing this kind of data. It's not because we have anything to hide. It's because that's not how this is done.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #279 on: March 08, 2016, 04:13 PM »
I don't want to cause more arguments, but your assurances are meaningless without more detailed information to back it up. What does "somewhat higher" mean in numbers?


>
[wink]

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 838
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #280 on: March 08, 2016, 04:24 PM »
I don't want to cause more arguments, but your assurances are meaningless without more detailed information to back it up. What does "somewhat higher" mean in numbers?

To be blunt, we're not going to be publicly releasing this kind of data. It's not because we have anything to hide. It's because that's not how this is done.

I appreciate and fully expected that. It was rhetorical. But as per my example, headline statements do nothing to quell the problem.

Human nature is such that people naturally want to like and feel good about the things they spend their money on. Internet forums such as this breed "fanboy" cultures, yet despite these two things in Festool's favour, the Kapex seems to get more widespread criticism than any other tool, save for maybe the Carvex. So you have to realise that the idiom that there's no smoke without fire, is hard to ignore with regards to this tool.

I'm not one to rubbish Festool unnecessarily, but nor am I one to blindly drink the Kool-Aid. I hope that in a few years there is a new or revised Kapex introduced with a new motor (along with I suspect some other minor changes to give Festool plausible deniability that the motor was faulty and needed redesigning) so I can buy one. But for now I can't allow myself to part with that much cash with all uncertainty about it's reliability, so for now a combination of my heavy old Bosch slider and small Makita will have to do.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 04:35 PM by bobfog »

Offline Jak147

  • Posts: 113
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #281 on: March 08, 2016, 04:38 PM »
@tomscf well said sir.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #282 on: March 08, 2016, 05:19 PM »
no body expects festool to release the stats.

but from my perspective any kapexs failing prematurely is a definetly a huge problem.
I would expect every one of my tools ( I only buy good tools) to last 10 years minium
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 860
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #283 on: March 08, 2016, 05:59 PM »
If Festool stands behind the Kapex why not a longer warranty?  A $1500 miter saw is expensive.   I have owned a Dewalt for 8 or 9 years and it gets used hard every day.  I keep a quality blade on it and it still cuts true.  I paid around $350 for it and have been impressed with its life span.

In my opinion it's hard to evaluate life span/the repair issues with the Kapex being that users vary.  I would guess that the majority of the users are not using the saw every day, all day long. 

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 860
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #284 on: March 08, 2016, 06:02 PM »
All I can say is my saw should have lasted longer then it has lasted.  I take care of my tools, always wait for the motor to come to full speed before cutting and 90% of the time plug the ct vac directly into an outlet. I know the other guys I work with have different brand miter saws that they had before I got my kapex and those saws are still working. The other brand saws are mainly used for framing and azek work while my kapex is babied and used indoors. I'm interested to see how Festool works with me on the repair of my kapex. The expensive shipping rate did make me cry a little this morning!!! 

Dave

Does this mean your next tool review is a Bosch Hinge Saw.  :)

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #285 on: March 08, 2016, 06:08 PM »
What im getting from this is that Festool as a company feels it is acceptable to have the motor burn out on some of these saws within 4 years. By your statement that nothing is going to be done you are effectively stating that you are ok with this.

I can understand that the % may not be high enough to warrant a recall or precautionary measures. I'd also be ashamed of myself if something i produced died right outside of the warranty time.  You sell the most expensive miter saw on the market by a wide margin and now you have MULTIPLE customers coming to you saying their motors have all died. Your response is that its not statistically significant enough to do anything? You've lost me as a customer right there, you don't back your product and I'll exercise my right to not buy from you again.


Offline jbasen

  • Posts: 737
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #286 on: March 08, 2016, 06:13 PM »
If Festool stands behind the Kapex why not a longer warranty?  A $1500 miter saw is expensive.   I have owned a Dewalt for 8 or 9 years and it gets used hard every day.  I keep a quality blade on it and it still cuts true.  I paid around $350 for it and have been impressed with its life span.

In my opinion it's hard to evaluate life span/the repair issues with the Kapex being that users vary.  I would guess that the majority of the users are not using the saw every day, all day long.

I was thinking the exact same thing.  If there really isn't an issue with the motors on the Kapex Festool could have turned this entire discussion around by saying some thing like "our statistics show that there isn't an issue with this tool  However, perception is sometimes more important than reality so to show that we stand behind the tool we are going to extend the warranty on just the motor by an additional 3 years".    If there really isn't an issue with the motor than this would cost them very little; probably less than the loss in sales of the Kapex from this thread.

In addition, while I would not expect Festool to release specific details about their repair histories they could have said we compared motor failures of the Kapex to the closest tool we manufacture, track saws, and there were only x% more (or even less) Kapex motor failures than failures of motors on our track saws.  This is why we don't see that there is an issue with the motor on the Kapex. 

Finally, lets be honest, this wouldn't be nearly as big an issue if the replacement motor for the Kapex was $100-$200.  The fact that the cost of a replacement motor will buy you a brand new saw from another manufacturer is a significant part of the problem

My $.02

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #287 on: March 08, 2016, 06:16 PM »
10 pages of grown men crying?

If mine burns up BFD, I will have it fixed.  I have more important stuff to do then spend my time speculating on a forum about this.


Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #288 on: March 08, 2016, 06:45 PM »
Im not speculating, my motor burned up. Soild addition to the conversation though.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 838
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #289 on: March 08, 2016, 06:48 PM »
10 pages of grown men crying?

If mine burns up BFD, I will have it fixed.  I have more important stuff to do then spend my time speculating on a forum about this.

Like posting on a forum, to let us know that you have more important things to do than speculate about it, but apparently not more important than letting us know that you don't have time to speculate about it?

Offline Brandon

  • Posts: 216
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #290 on: March 08, 2016, 07:02 PM »
I had posted on a similar thread a couple years ago but mine burned up in less than a year as well. Festool obviously repaired it but disappointing none the less. I've had no issues with it since, probably about 2 years but I would certainly not buy another. Of all the tools I own, which is a lot, I've never had a motor burn out. Minus a router trim motor on my Holzher edgebander and that's fairly common.
I think the failure rate on the Kapex, regardless of how small a percentile they claim, is unacceptable given the cost and quality we expect from Festool

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 432
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #291 on: March 08, 2016, 07:59 PM »
I think that the Festool response to the failure rate is the important issue. If Festool just takes the attitude that the rare failure is something the customer just has to deal with, then I would be very leery about buying an expensive, complex piece of Festool machinery.

As I have said before, I think that Festool should replace the units with failing motors. If they cannot determine what the problem is and correct it, then they should give an extended warranty to the motors.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #292 on: March 08, 2016, 08:44 PM »
I bought an electric range with a whole bunch of features.  I paid about $1600 USD.  I could have bought a range that would cook my food perfectly fine for $700.  Both had a 1 year warranty.  I then bought an extended warranty AT EXTRA COST to give me piece of mind.  Ranges have a lifespan and might need repairs before the end of their lifespan.

Oh, sorry.  I went off topic and we were talking about the Kapex here.

Peter

Online travisj

  • Posts: 189
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #293 on: March 08, 2016, 08:52 PM »
So bringing Peter's comments back on topic, what about an extended warranty...

Online travisj

  • Posts: 189
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #294 on: March 08, 2016, 08:53 PM »
And yes I realized the humor in Peter's comments.

Offline Saskataper

  • Posts: 278
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #295 on: March 08, 2016, 09:20 PM »
Ok this just ticks me off and I call B.S. Friend of mine just shipped theirs out for repair and it wasn't even 2 years old. Then talking to contractors on site about it yesterday say yeah the one other guy they know with a kapex had to send it back a couple times for new motors. On top of that my dealer has mentioned having to send back saws for that reason.
Now considering the kapex is a pretty rare beast in these parts that is a pretty high failure rate.
I was really hoping to hear that festool would extend the warranty on the saw to give owners and prospective buyers some peace of mind.
Luckily for me the price of it has gone up so much in the past three years I should be able to sell it for what I paid for it.
I bought this saw for the occasional custom job I do, justifying the cost for the most part on the fact that it should be a one time purchase and the quality should pay for itself over the years.

Offline Dave Reinhold

  • Posts: 529
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #296 on: March 08, 2016, 09:28 PM »

[/quote]

Does this mean your next tool review is a Bosch Hinge Saw.  :)
[/quote]

I would like to try the Bosch saw but it's huge and dust collection is poor. I would strongly consider one for a shop environment.
check out www.youtube.com/user/DaveReinholdTV for new tool demos every week

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #297 on: March 08, 2016, 09:29 PM »
Statistics can be used to tell any story if you're the one holding them and drawing the conclusions. The reality is we have a response from Festool and it effective says "all is good and we're not making any changes to the KAPEX or to the KAPEX warranty".

We now trust or distrust the response.

I'm going to choose "trust" as I honestly don't have a personal issue with any of my Festools and they're not heavy use by me either.


Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #298 on: March 08, 2016, 09:39 PM »
Let's takes Warner's advice. Time to take action and not speculate. Seems many motor failures on this forum plus many know others with motor failures.  Is it time for legal action.  Maybe a forced recall. I am not sure but it is an option. Maybe it's time for festool to offer a 10 year warranty on the motor.  Cars come with 36000 bumber to bumber with 100000 on engine and powertrain. Festool could do the same with 3 year bumber to bumber and 10 years on the motor. If there are truly few motor failures like festool says than it costs them little plus comes a marketing plus for sales, Festool Kapex the only saw on the market guaranteed against motor failure for 10 years!

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 401
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #299 on: March 09, 2016, 02:12 AM »
It's an interesting thread on so many levels. It would certainly stop me from buying a Kapex but I was already in the highly unlikely category anyway.

It does seem that the motor on the Kapex isn't that great but without proper stats from the users or manufacturer it is hard to properly assess that. What does interest me is the mob mentality. I'm wondering whether some people are expecting Festool to put one of their own employees in stocks so disgruntled owners can throw rotten fruit and veg at them?

That said there does seem to be a cause for concern here and FOG is obviously a double edged sword for Festool at times like this. They are more than happy for users to talk about the love story between themselves and their tools. I'm sure any other manufacturer would easily consider a 7 figure sum for a resource like FOG. It should never be forgotten by users that Festool started the love story with their great tools but by the same token Festool should never forget that they would be far worse off without the millions of positive words of solid gold advertising that the FOG community creates. True love never runs smooth and occasionally the community will be demanding, sometimes it will be justified and sometimes it won't. In both cases I would expect a better response than the one Festool have provided so far.

Like all great love stories, you inevitably get to the bit where you have the conversation "you're not the person I married, I'm leaving you for a Makita chopsaw". Festool probably have changed on the back of the price fixing debacle. They set the margins back then but also determined the quality. We are paying lower prices now but maybe we are determining the quality by doing so. We maybe have a choice to make if we want the Festool we fell in love with. Would this motor issue have been resolved under the old regime? Is it considered an acceptable failure rate nowadays under the new regime? If you look at the prices of a lot of Festool gear nowadays we are not really paying that much of a premium if you look at similar offerings from the other manufacturers. Sometimes Festool can even be the cheaper option. What should we realistically expect?

I think it might be folly to consider Festool as the premium brand it once was. It is still a premium brand but the emphasis might be shifting towards the volume market. They had their pants round their ankles with the TS55 release and were forced to act. You might just have to put up with the "Kapex issues" and expect mass market responses.

All the above is rampant speculation but might be useful food for thought. A bean counter in an ivory tower somewhere in Germany will have all the answers. That bean counter might laugh derisively at every single one of my words but I'm right because I'm the customer!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2016, 02:46 AM by andy5405 »

Offline Ingebrigt

  • Posts: 26
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #300 on: March 09, 2016, 06:05 AM »
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences and concerns.

Based on the concerns mentioned in this thread, we’ve done some research, and this is what we have found. In the U.S, the Kapex does have a somewhat higher repair rate than the rest of our tools. However, it is still a very low percentage, based on the number of tools in service.  We attribute this slightly higher than average repair rate to the relative complexity of the tool, rather than any inherent design flaw or other issue. 

The anecdotal claims of issues mentioned on the FOG simply do not, in our opinion, create a reason to think that there is a widespread problem.  We are confident in the overall quality and performance of the Kapex, and believe that you should be as well.

I don't want to cause more arguments, but your assurances are meaningless without more detailed information to back it up. What does "somewhat higher" mean in numbers?

To be blunt, we're not going to be publicly releasing this kind of data. It's not because we have anything to hide. It's because that's not how this is done.

To be blunt: If Festool is gone use arguments like "that's not how this is done", then you shouldn't expect us to be any more factual. It sounds like a politician trying to twist out of any responsibility, but I guess it's a way of saying that we don't want to give you this information, and we don't want to tell you why. There's many things that can be said without giving out you're statistics, but when you hold your cards so tight to your chest, then you're not doing anything to correct what many of us are thinking and expressing here.

A chain is not stronger then it's weakest link. In this case that link is the motor, and even if the "overall quality and performance" is perfect, that doesn't help much. Statistics can be interpreted to say what you want them to, and the way they are presented doesn't convince me. There's much you can say to enlighten us without giving up you're statistics, but I'm sure the safest action is to silence this matter to death.

I think Festool's being cheap when you demand so much for repairing what (in my view) obviously is a design/component flaw. The least Festool should do is offer these repairs as cheaply as possible, and without any profit on the parts or the work. Many have mentioned that the price for this repair is half the price of the whole saw. I'm sure that the motor doesn't cost any more when Festool buy it as a spare part, then when bought to make new saws. I'm also sure changing the motor doesn't take half as long as making a new saw.

I think that many here is putting to much feelings into this. Make no mistake, Festool is here to make money on us, and we are here to get the best possible tools for the least amount of money. We don't owe it to Festool to accept a faulty product that we have paid a premium price for. I think it's stupid when some take it upon them self's to defend Festool. I feel much more responsible for nuancing the perfect picture of a faultless tool brand that many here are portraying in tool reviews on FOG, youtube, online stores, and elsewhere. New buyers deserve to know that the Kapex is prone to have the motor fail, that the repair is very expensive, and that Festool don't take any responsibility if the warranty is out. So I suggest that those who have had this experience write a review on online stores warning potential buyers about this, so that they can take an informed decision. If someone had done that for me I would have appreciated it, and steered away from this product. I don't think potential buyers will discover this thread. I have no intention of punishing Festool, but I will do what I can to steer them in the direction of taking responsibility for their products problems. I also want them to take a stance on whether they want to be a high quality brand, or a high volume (high profit) brand. If that's the route they are going I'll be looking at other brands from now on. Those who's uncritically defending Festool should reflect some more on their stance. I firmly believe that silently accepting poor quality is not good for Festool, but having demands and addressing problems in a proper way will.

Offline Ajax

  • Posts: 193
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #301 on: March 09, 2016, 11:41 AM »
Love my Kapex.  Has worked very well.  The lasers are amazing.  The accuracy, ergonomics, and dust control are best in class.  The motor failure stories really worry me.  For what was spent (two to three times its competitors) it should NEVER have reliability issues.

Festool ignores this at their own peril.  All the goodwill and money spent on building the brand can be eroded with incidents like this.  This probably doesn't mean a recall, but at a minimum more transparency on the issue.
Kapex KS120, MFT/3, TS55 REQ, LS130, RTS400, RO90 DX FEQ, D90 Assortment, RO150 REQ, ETS 150/3, PRO5, D150 Assortment, DF 500, Domino 4/5/8/10 Assortment, DF700 XL, Domino 12/14 Assortment,  CT Midi, MFT/3, Kapex MFT, 2 x SysRoll

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 449
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #302 on: March 09, 2016, 03:13 PM »
So,when buying a kapex,place it on the workbench right next to the shipping container it came in.
 
I will buy a kapex for the reasons already said,but will send it I. For service before the  warranty runs out and will keep the box to do so.
Charlie

Offline tomscf

  • Posts: 41
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #303 on: March 09, 2016, 03:51 PM »
I will buy a kapex for the reasons already said,but will send it I. For service before the  warranty runs out and will keep the box to do so.
Charlie

I used my box as a play house for my 1 year old son in spite of Festool advising me to keep it for the reason Charlie mentions. Probably got more use out of the box than the saw to be honest!

In all seriousness, I would say that having any tool which costs this much is worth servicing as often as the demands you put upon it would reasonably require. You wouldn't (shouldn't) drive your car around like a stock car racer for 3 years and not expect it to go kaboom if you haven't given it a bit of tlc now and again.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #304 on: March 09, 2016, 06:47 PM »
I will buy a kapex for the reasons already said,but will send it I. For service before the  warranty runs out and will keep the box to do so.
Charlie

I used my box as a play house for my 1 year old son in spite of Festool advising me to keep it for the reason Charlie mentions. Probably got more use out of the box than the saw to be honest!

In all seriousness, I would say that having any tool which costs this much is worth servicing as often as the demands you put upon it would reasonably require. You wouldn't (shouldn't) drive your car around like a stock car racer for 3 years and not expect it to go kaboom if you haven't given it a bit of tlc now and again.

Please advice what services the kapex requires and what to service to avoid a kapex to go kaboom. ( use a sharp blade is just standard practise so I dont class that as part of the service it kinda equals to a car needing fuel...... Just incase you come back saying a sharp blade [tongue] )
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Offline oneeyesquare

  • Posts: 41
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #305 on: March 09, 2016, 09:06 PM »
Mine went in at 2 months old. Motor failure. The saw lives in high end trim jobs, blades swapped out frequently, etc, etc... I use it with the expectation that the motor will fail again. I have roughly a year and half of warranty left. What we be nice ;as well as reassuring, is if every Kapex with a warranty motor failure/repair would have the warranty clock restarted for each subsequent failure. Kind of like the 10 year motor warranty, but different. :)

Offline Chris Perren

  • Posts: 86
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #306 on: March 09, 2016, 10:02 PM »
Although a huge Festool fan, I do believe there is more to this issue that should be corrected by Festool. If it's not a problem then it should be minimum risk for Festool to a provide an extended warenty on just the motor.   

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4946
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #307 on: March 09, 2016, 10:22 PM »
Mine went in at 2 months old. Motor failure. The saw lives in high end trim jobs, blades swapped out frequently, etc, etc... I use it with the expectation that the motor will fail again. I have roughly a year and half of warranty left. What we be nice ;as well as reassuring, is if every Kapex with a warranty motor failure/repair would have the warranty clock restarted for each subsequent failure. Kind of like the 10 year motor warranty, but different. :)

I hate to post for fear of being put on the PETA list for beating a [dead horse]

However, this suggestion really does make sense. If the motor goes south 2 years into the warranty period , then when the motor is replaced under warranty, it should still be under warranty for the next 3 years. The lasers and the rest of the saw, no...but the motor and any other item that was replaced...yes, the parts are new and the warranty coverage is supposed to cover new items for 3 years.

This may alleviate some of the consumer angst that is very prevalent in this thread.

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 879
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #308 on: March 09, 2016, 10:31 PM »
If you have a motor repair out of warranty and you pay for it haven't you just bought a new motor and as such it should be warrantied like any other tool purchase.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2665
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #309 on: March 09, 2016, 10:41 PM »
If you have a motor repair out of warranty and you pay for it haven't you just bought a new motor and as such it should be warrantied like any other tool purchase.

Agree. For example my car recently had the gear box replaced. Second hand gearbox with 12 months/12000km replacement Warrenty.

And from Makita Australia website -
Parts that have been replaced by an Authorised Makita Service Agent also carry a 3-month warranty against manufacture faults or faulty workmanship. In line with its commitment to service and backup support, Makita Australia’s service centre located at Eastern Creek, Sydney has professional technicians dedicated to providing world-class service for Makita power tools.

Admittedly it is 3 months.

http://www.makita.com.au/Warranty-Registration/warranty-service-and-repair
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 12:11 AM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #310 on: March 10, 2016, 01:57 AM »
Regarding the warrenty

 This was another reason I choose to go for a new kapex rather than Repair.

The repair was  at least 60% of the value of a new one or more but they only offer a 6months warrenty with the repair.

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Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2665
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #311 on: March 10, 2016, 02:35 AM »
Regarding the warrenty

 This was another reason I choose to go for a new kapex rather than Repair.

The repair was  at least 60% of the value of a new one or more but they only offer a 6months warrenty with the repair.

At least there was a repair warranty. After reading this thread AND checking the Festool Aust site, I could not find any reference to Warrenty on repairs, and yet on the Makita Aust site it was very easy to find.  Just looked at Festool UK site and there it is, 6 months.

Given that your tools are a business expense, I can only support your decision to purchase new rather than repair @jmbfestool  .

« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 04:41 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3659
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #312 on: March 10, 2016, 03:35 AM »
Altho I do not have a Kapex, I have been exposed to the hype along with several demos.  I have read all about the stability, accuracy, the lasers, the angle gauge, the clamp, and the extensions; but the strength of the motor has not been mentioned.  This is from memory, so it is possible i have missed something, but the advertising has not impressed into my 39 year old mind how great the motor is on the Kapex.  I wonder why. 
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline tomscf

  • Posts: 41
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #313 on: March 10, 2016, 12:13 PM »

Please advice what services the kapex requires and what to service to avoid a kapex to go kaboom. ( use a sharp blade is just standard practise so I dont class that as part of the service it kinda equals to a car needing fuel...... Just incase you come back saying a sharp blade [tongue] )

God knows. If I knew what was entailed in overhauling a chop saw motor, I'd save myself a few pennies and do it myself.
To continue the already "tired" car analogy (Ho Ho), I would guess things like lubricating all moving parts that are otherwise inaccessible (oil change) and perhaps checking/adjusting any components that have loosened?
I suppose if I were a Festool technician and I secretly knew what was causing this undisclosed percentage of motors to fail and one came in for a service, one might get lucky and the kindly gentleman might put it right before sending it back out?? It would be worth a shot.
Anyway - I don't want to play devil's advocate here. I know I've spoken up for the Kapex and for Festool as a company  but it's really only because I was finding it frustrating hearing so many people griping about a saw they don't own and have no intention of owning,  yet seem to be the ones shouting the loudest on the whole issue.
I have not been without an issue or two myself and one of them was a static electrical build up in my ts55. I found this forum invaluable in diagnosing the issue and then being able to use anecdotal evidence to request a specific replacement part.
I think that for the very same reason, this thread should indeed keep going so when these motors start popping and going kaboom all over the World (though touch wood they won't) whether within warranty or not, a private case with Festool could perhaps reasonably be resolved to bring down the cost of motor replacement outside of warranty or force a recall of specific batches or whatever.
But again, to use anything as evidence against a person or company, you have to be certain of facts. And if Joe public is having to trawl through 11 pages of people saying how their 300 year old DeWalt still works, it is not entirely helpful when trying to build a case.
I don't want the thread to die a death, I just want those directly affected by issues to state what the saw had been used for, what service they may have had(if any), the symptoms of the problem and any diagnosis they were given and the customer service they then had from either Festool or their dealer or both.
If Festool could then be a bit more specific with what part of the motor seems to be causing the failure then perhaps it would be useful but if I owned a company, the "no smoke without fire"(or burning motors) would probably be better PR than "our motors have armatures made of butter so cross your fingers and hope for the best". I don't expect them to currently do any more than they are doing.
Trust me, if my Kapex blows up 4 or 5 years down the line, I'll be the first one scrutinising this thread and citing various people to back up my requests from Festool and I wholeheartedly sympathise with anyone who has had it happen to them. Don't give up the fight...unless you buy a Milwaukee...in which case you deserve each other  [wink] ...don't lynch me, I'm joking.

Offline safety1st

  • Posts: 131
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #314 on: March 10, 2016, 04:54 PM »
as a kapex owner i am concerned about this thread, like many others i am sure.

i was wondering if anybody has compared failure rates between kapex motor vs say a ts55/ts75 motor?
just to have an apples to apples comparison. maybe a poll on this forum would help?

thanks.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: Kapex life span
« Reply #315 on: March 10, 2016, 04:57 PM »
Although I'm sure it's happened a number of times, I can only recall seeing two or three mentions of motor failure on the TS in the year and a half I've been on the FOG.  Part of it obviously has to do with the different usage of the machine -- constant running of the TS vs. the stop and start of the mitre saw, which taxes the motor more.  But still, good point.

as a kapex owner i am concerned about this thread, like many others i am sure.

i was wondering if anybody has compared failure rates between kapex motor vs say a ts55/ts75 motor?
just to have an apples to apples comparison. maybe a poll on this forum would help?

thanks.
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