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Author Topic: Kapex life span  (Read 246279 times)

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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6623
Kapex life span
« on: February 05, 2016, 03:52 AM »
Me upset
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 08:08 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 04:22 AM »
It is painful to get "quality" and have them not last.
However I am assuming that you consider that you got acceptable life out of the drill and track-saw?
Or how long should they be expected to last? (3 years?)

Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Kapex life span
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 04:39 AM »
I've had mine over 8 years now, and it's still fine (though I suppose mine doesn't get quite as much heavy use as yours does!).

It went back to Festool twice (IIRC) in the first 3 years; once for the fence locking problem, and I honestly can't remember what the other one was for.

Or how long should they be expected to last? (3 years?)

I would think, given the cost, 3 years is too short. I think it's reasonable to expect something to last at least twice as long as the warranty, but it does depend on the level of use.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 06:15 AM »
Relatively speaking the KAPEX is not a complex machine ... electric motors these days last for ages and ages. Bearings also have extremely long lives (if the right bearings are used). In my opinion the KAPEX should last 10 years with reasonable maintenance and brush replacement before it needs major repair at the very least.

@jmbfestool I'm assuming yours is 240V ??

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Kapex life span
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2016, 06:33 AM »
Reading on hear there seems to be more problems reported with the 110v Kapexs over the 240v. Maybe the 110v's in the UK have a harder life being site tools, I don't know.
 I would expect at least 8 years use out of my Kapex as my old Makita lasted that long and cost less than half the price of a Kapex.

Offline Sal C.

  • Posts: 4
Kapex life span
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2016, 12:14 PM »
Been a long time guest follower of this forum and own a number of Festool products including the Domino XL, Rotex 150, TS75, and others. All have served me well in a hobbyist environment. I have also been keenly following posts on the Kapex as I would like to upgrade to it for improved accuracy and dust collection.

I just registered to the forum in order to post this note as another data point for Festool product management. This is not meant to cause argument among members but to get Festool to understand that the amount of conversation related to the Kapex and its problems is causing me (and I  assume others) to defer or avoid its purchase. In my case I am waiting for a new release of the saw. I realize that this may be off in the future; but I am not compelled to buy at this time given the list of recurring issues.

Hopefully, this feedback has value to product management and we will see a new an not only more reliable but better functioning version of the Kapex.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6623
Kapex life span
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2016, 01:15 PM »
Relatively speaking the KAPEX is not a complex machine ... electric motors these days last for ages and ages. Bearings also have extremely long lives (if the right bearings are used). In my opinion the KAPEX should last 10 years with reasonable maintenance and brush replacement before it needs major repair at the very least.

@jmbfestool I'm assuming yours is 240V ??

All my tools are 240v
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6623
Kapex life span
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2016, 01:27 PM »
It is painful to get "quality" and have them not last.
However I am assuming that you consider that you got acceptable life out of the drill and track-saw?
Or how long should they be expected to last? (3 years?)


I know how much I have used the drill and track-saw  over the years.  I do think they have served me well and although I would have liked them to have lasted me longer I do accept things wear out.

However I just done think the Kapex is living up to my expectations.  I know how much use the kapex has had over the years and I really dont believe it has lasted me long enough.  Remember this is the second time the kapex has burnt out.  The first time I just accepted that sometimes things break just annoying it happens outside of the warranty.

I never make it struggle, as soon as I hear the motor wanting to bog down I slow the cut down immediately.
Yet with the track saw and drill I have quite often pushed them to the limit. 

So I am torn.  I do like using the kapex and I love the Ug-stand brilliant for transporting.  Its compact size etc
Yet its ALOT of money for a tool with a short life span. 

I would have expected it to at least last as long as my track saw. Yet the kapex is newer and has burnt out twice. Yet the track-saw although is playing up is still working to this day.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 01:59 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jimbouk

  • Posts: 344
Kapex life span
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2016, 01:47 PM »
I have a 8 ish year old ts55 that's seen plenty of hammer every day more or less. It's still going, dad's using it now. Heard alot of issues with the ts55r so I avoided that one.

Fingers crossed my kapex is ok at the moment. I would be seriously pi$$ed if that happened to mine after a couple of years!

Given all the horror stories I wouldn't buy another. I would go for the big bosch slider.
BHC 18, TSC 55REB, OF 1400, MIDI, TS55, TRION, Df500, CSX...

Offline promark747

  • Posts: 459
Kapex life span
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 02:26 PM »
I believe Festool guarantees to have replacement parts available for at least 7-8 years after a model is discontinued, so that gives some idea of the expected lifespan.

Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Kapex life span
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 03:08 PM »
Supposed to be 10 years I believe but I have a Protool chp 26 I bought 5 years ago and can't get a switch for it as it's not on Ekat france ....

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1191
Kapex life span
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2016, 03:17 PM »
Link to EKAT Protool.
Switch for CHP 26 has partnumber: 763140
Festoolian since 1998.
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PROTOOL:
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Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Kapex life span
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2016, 02:22 AM »
Cheers neelman I never would have found that.....

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 377
Kapex life span
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2016, 07:43 AM »
Self employed subcontractor carpenter here.
I bought a little Makita compound mitre saw in about 2003 or so and its still going strong with the usage I put it through.
I might not use it for a month then use it a lot the next month and when I'm fitting internal door linings/casings I don't use packers and instead make lots of slow slope wooden wedges which is quite hard on the saw.

So, I'd expect something that cost 8 or so times as much (mine cost £180) to last as long as that at the least.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6623
Kapex life span
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 02:56 PM »
Self employed subcontractor carpenter here.
I bought a little Makita compound mitre saw in about 2003 or so and its still going strong with the usage I put it through.
I might not use it for a month then use it a lot the next month and when I'm fitting internal door linings/casings I don't use packers and instead make lots of slow slope wooden wedges which is quite hard on the saw.

So, I'd expect something that cost 8 or so times as much (mine cost £180) to last as long as that at the least.

I totally agree.

My Makita is still going strong so why doesnt a Kapex last?

I havent had time yet but when I get 5mins I am going to take my kapex apart and see whats up.

Im 100% its going to be obvious what the problem is because it felt and sounded like something just dropped out of something.

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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 08:16 PM »
@jmbfestool I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Kapex life span
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2016, 08:36 PM »
@jmbfestool I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

I would not buy the version that I keep reading about.
But I would consider one that seems more durable.

@Kev What is the model number of that Metabo SCMS?
https://sydneytools.com.au/metabo-ks-18-ltx-216-18v-li-ion-cordless-216mm-8-1-2-crosscut-mitre-saw-skin-only

??

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Kapex life span
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2016, 08:40 PM »

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Kapex life span
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2016, 09:48 PM »
That's great value with the free battery and charger.
  I really liked the original blade that came with the Metabo unfortunately my local Metabo dealer doesn't stock these blades.
  I spoke with the Metabo rep and he said he could order them in but it would take a while, so I have been using the Irwin blades and am happy with those, They cost about $35 a blade, compare that to running the Kapex every day with $250 blades.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5239
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Kapex life span
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2016, 03:33 AM »
JMB,

It depends. If your using it for 8 years for production jobs every day getting your money's worth out of it. Tools wear out. Mines because I don't do production and use it sparingly compared to you will last a lot longer.

So quit being cheap take it in get it repaired and buy the second one and get back at it.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6623
Kapex life span
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2016, 03:36 PM »
@jmbfestool I think this, above all other KAPEX issue threads brings home the question ... "If Festool brought out a new and improved KAPEX, would you buy it?"

A brand grows on it strength and a particular product on it's reputation. If Festool are currently working on a KAPEX replacement/upgrade it could be a sales and marketing disaster simply because of the negative attitude brewing towards the KAPEX today. I would put myself in the "very happy KAPEX user" class, but even I would be hesitant over a new KAPEX until it was solidly proven (possibly over a couple of years).

The only way I think Festool could successfully launch a new KAPEX is to launch it with an unconditional 7 year warranty.

ARE YOU LISTENING FESTOOL?

Well seen as festools other tools ive had for a while and have been used alot have lasted me.
I feel festool are capable.

Sooo I would think if festool brought out a new kapex one would think they would have looked at the reasons why their kapex keep burning out and adress the issue.
Other manufacturers have managed to make chops saw to last longer.

Im sure festool are aware and I bet they have had many Kapex's in for repair with motor fail.

Its little annoying because i like the kapex.   I wont be buying another one for the workshop now i dont think because thats where it gets the most repetitive work and i want something which can last little longer. So ive now been looking at radial arm saws. 

 
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6623
Kapex life span
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2016, 03:45 PM »
JMB,

It depends. If your using it for 8 years for production jobs every day getting your money's worth out of it. Tools wear out. Mines because I don't do production and use it sparingly compared to you will last a lot longer.

So quit being cheap take it in get it repaired and buy the second one and get back at it.

No mater what, you should always be on my side!!!! [eek]

I wont be buying another one now.

Ill get this one fixed that will be it.

Im going to buy something else but im in no rush.  Ive started changing the way i work by using my table saw more and more now.    Different way of working site and workshop.
Slowly adapting me!
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Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 391
Kapex life span
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2016, 05:18 PM »
My Kapex burnt out at 18 months old and got repaired under warranty, it's now 3.5yrs old and I am expecting the same problem again anytime soon but obviously now it's out of warranty.

 I do think Festool should step up and replace the armature etc on burnt out saws whatever the age because going on the number of problems we hear about it is not fit for purpose.

Doug

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 449
Kapex life span
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2016, 09:06 PM »
I have been reading about all of the kapex problems,and am holding off on my purchase as well.
Just the other day I went to my local festool shop,and was looking at the kapex that was on display,checking the things that I read about(fence,table,45deg bevel)
I had placed a straight edge on the table checking for a low turret,and the square -ness the the fence,then walked away to look at something else.
When I returned to the saw,there was a small drop of oil on the table of the saw that wasn't there the first inspection.

I don't know where the oil came from,but I certainly won't buy that saw.

I have decided to buy a kapex from a store and not online,because it will be easier to return from a brick and mortar store,than dealing with the online hassle.

Sorry about the rant,but it's bad when  a return is on my mind before the initial purchase has Evan happend.
Charlie

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Kapex life span
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2016, 09:45 AM »
I don't own a kapex or have any plans to buy one currently, but if festool were to improve on the design what would you change. Here's what I like about the kapex just from a spectator standpoint.

1 dust collection - again thistle is something I haven't put into practice but seems to be a selling point. If it works good enough to eliminate a hood for site set up  that's a good saw.

2 ease and precision of adjustment. The update front bevel settings that can be dialed in remain unique to this saw and if it works as good in practice as it does fiddling around with it in the store then that's a huge feature.

3 compact size and weight.  While there are lighter and more portable miter saws on the market I'm not sure how their depth of cut relates to the kapex. The forward rod design also seems to be a benefit.

4 speed control. I cut a lot of different materials at times so I love speed control on a machine.

There, I've said some nice things. Again I don't own or use one regularly so these are just observers comments for what they're worth  (admittedly not as much as user experience)

So based on comments on this forum suggested improvements would be in two areas.

Increased robustness of the motor. What do you guys think of electronic controllers on motors? Is there currently overload protection on the kapex? Perhaps a good controller would improve safety while furthering the life of the motor itself. Others might think the electronics over complicate the machine.

Fine tune adjustments for detents, and table flatness via some set screws. I always love these, most if not all of my newer machines have these fine tune adjustments on them just to make up for manufacturing error,

Ditch the lasers add some good light. Maybe the lasers work for you I don't know but in practice I haven't used a machine where I could rely on it. (Again, minimal experience with the kapex).

Anyway those are my suggestions for improving the kapex. Personally I wouldn't want to see festool focus on a cordless miter saw as their next iteration nor do I want them to focus on adding a bunch of fiddly add ons as money making accessories. It needs to be a rock solid super accurate core shop/site machine.

Offline Peter Durand

  • Posts: 191
Kapex life span
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2016, 11:09 AM »
Re the laser. I have had my kapex for a number of years now. After I adjusted the lasers to where I want them, they have been dead on perfect. All the time.

I know exactly where that cut will be.

Cheers,

Peter

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Kapex life span
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2016, 11:51 AM »
Cool, as I said I don't own the kapex so maybe it's an awesome must have. On other saws not so much, by my experience.

Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 460
Kapex life span
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2016, 01:47 PM »
Ditch the lasers add some good light. Maybe the lasers work for you I don't know but in practice I haven't used a machine where I could rely on it. (Again, minimal experience with the kapex).

I have a 4 buck flexible led-light (from the blue and yellow store) hitched onto my Kapex. Works for me. And as mine is a demo-model it is dead square. So, no complaints from me.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline Drich

  • Posts: 191
Kapex life span
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2016, 05:14 PM »
Well I'm glad I sold my kapex a few weeks ago. I do agree it was a very nice saw and it cuts well the few times I used it but man for over 1500 bucks now with tax it should be bullet proof. I had a 12 " Dewalt for over 15 years and cut heavy 1/4  Aluminum angle with it. PVC pipe, 4x4 pallet posts and still going strong. So buyer beware that its the chance you take with it. I just ordered a bosch 10" glide saw from Acme as it's only 549 and free ship. only a 1/3 the price.

Offline Luzzy

  • Posts: 109
Kapex life span
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2016, 07:28 PM »
Re the laser. I have had my kapex for a number of years now. After I adjusted the lasers to where I want them, they have been dead on perfect. All the time.

I know exactly where that cut will be.

Cheers,

Peter


I have a Kapex in my basement shop and have been using one since 2008 or 09. I sold my first one last year but had zero issues with it - I just wanted to get a new one with a 3 year warranty.

The Kapex laser setup with both sides of the blade is fantastic. When they are adjusted they are dead accurate and save that extra pull down to align with your mark. I forget how good they are when I don't use it for a while. I just bought the Metabo cordless miter to replace an older Dewalt 12" and it is also pretty nice but not Kapex nice. The laser reminds me of how much I miss Festool's version when I'm not working with it. Generally , on other saws , the lasers leave much to be desired:(