Acrobat
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Location: Upper Right, Middle earth Member Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 103
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« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2012, 09:36 PM » |
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I agree with most of the posters here, I find the manuals lack of explanation on what the attachments may or may not do very poor. It must hinder their sale surely. Who knows what some of them do? So one has to search here to see if someone has it and hows its used and what other attachments you need for it to actually work. Look at the LR32 it's got quite a few attachments in the kit but very poor info on what each is used for, similar to the 1010 router. I recently got a 1010 and even asked the salesman what a piece in the kit was for and neither of us can figure it out. Going onto festools website they simply state the name and number of an item and no real detail on how or why its used. Thankfully people have put up videos on various bits and pieces so you can get a better understanding on them and their uses correctly. Well thats my take on it anyway.
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My Festool addiction fed currently by: Kapex 120, TS55R, DF500 & Domino accessories set, Rotex 125, ETS 150/3, DTS400, C12, Ti15 Impact Driver, Midi vac, Surefix Oiling/waxing Kit, OF1010 Router, Kapex 120
Wish List? Carvex420??, Belt sander with frame and planer with frame.
Uncle Festool
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.
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andvari
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Location: Central NJ Member Since: Oct 2011
Posts: 333
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2012, 10:10 PM » |
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Yes the included factory manuals are weak.
However this site, the videos and the supplementary manuals provide much more information than I've found on any other tools I've purchased.
The only problem I see is if you are inexperienced and are trying to use these Festools without being used to using the internet as a research tool.
Perhaps the importance of this site should be emphasized in the packaging of the tools.
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TS55, Domino 500, Domino Assortment, OF1400, CT36+Boom Arm, T12+3, FS3000, Parallel Guides, RO 90, ETS 150/3, Domino XL, Domiplate, LS130, RTS Guide Stop, CMS-GE
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Acrobat
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Location: Upper Right, Middle earth Member Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 103
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« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2012, 12:59 AM » |
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Yes the included factory manuals are weak.
However this site, the videos and the supplementary manuals provide much more information than I've found on any other tools I've purchased.
The only problem I see is if you are inexperienced and are trying to use these Festools without being used to using the internet as a research tool.
Perhaps the importance of this site should be emphasized in the packaging of the tools.
Yes and no...I find myself agreeing BUT surely if Festool wishes to promote and sell their attachments a-la-"systems" approach where everything helps your project in a co-ordinated togetherness, then how about them providing a guide on how and what they are used for? If one doesn't know about them, one is less likely to order them and use them, therefore a loss of sale of that item. I would have thought that would be to Festools own advantage to promote their own products better, rather than leaving it up to individuals to trawl internet sites etc and have people make their own videos to demonstrate things to others because of this initial lack of information being available. |
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My Festool addiction fed currently by: Kapex 120, TS55R, DF500 & Domino accessories set, Rotex 125, ETS 150/3, DTS400, C12, Ti15 Impact Driver, Midi vac, Surefix Oiling/waxing Kit, OF1010 Router, Kapex 120
Wish List? Carvex420??, Belt sander with frame and planer with frame.
Uncle Festool
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Steve R
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Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA Member Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 915
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« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2012, 11:53 AM » |
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Yes the included factory manuals are weak.
However this site, the videos and the supplementary manuals provide much more information than I've found on any other tools I've purchased.
The only problem I see is if you are inexperienced and are trying to use these Festools without being used to using the internet as a research tool.
Perhaps the importance of this site should be emphasized in the packaging of the tools.
Yes and no...I find myself agreeing BUT surely if Festool wishes to promote and sell their attachments a-la-"systems" approach where everything helps your project in a co-ordinated togetherness, then how about them providing a guide on how and what they are used for? If one doesn't know about them, one is less likely to order them and use them, therefore a loss of sale of that item. I would have thought that would be to Festools own advantage to promote their own products better, rather than leaving it up to individuals to trawl internet sites etc and have people make their own videos to demonstrate things to others because of this initial lack of information being available. I have posted here about how Festool information can be improved. I agree Festool is system and, that information could be packaged better.... BUT... When I look at any of my other tool manuals... most of the time, if you have tossed the box away... you have lost every bit of info/ manual about them. Most manuals today are just limits of liability, warranty info and a phone number for Customer Service that takes 40 minutes of computer talk menus to reach a person .... to find out Joe, in Guam can't work his headset phone let alone help you. We need to look at it this way the Festool System in complex... especially when you're new to it, and even when you know some Festool tools, but move into a different tool category that you don't yet own. The complex system is why we buy it and love it.... but that is also why we can be and are a bit frustrated. We know it can do this but we need the figure out how. Thank goodness for web videos and other online media.... the problem with that is when you work on site... you really need a systainer with a computer in it to get answers. Smart phones help....but now Festool/FOG needs a whole other site built to work on smartphones. Base line, Festool is head-and-shoulders above the rest of most all tools! Being that Festool buyers are looking for the best tools and have chosen Festool we have set the bar pretty high for our expectations... of the tool, the case, the manuals, customer service... We know the Festool Engineers can't leave a tool design alone for a minute. When the new model comes out out they are working to improve it! So.... Festool should understand that the customers are the just the same OCD type personality... so Festool gets...comments like ~ Great you just put out a manual...but.... you could have... yada, yada... I don't think Festool should stop improving the tools and I don't think customers should stop asking for more.... we all just need to remember what we have now is very, very good. Ideas, comments and what seems like complaints don't mean that anyone has failed... people just want to help. Does anyone think DeWalt has customers this active and passionate about their product or a forum like this..... NOPE! Cheers, Steve |
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« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 10:53 PM by Steve R »
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"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)
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Reiska
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Location: Finland Member Since: Jul 2011
Posts: 589
Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2012, 04:36 PM » |
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So next time you buy a car ..... you want the manufacturer to include driving lessons?
Well, actually the better car manufacturers do just that - my mate has attended driving courses at Maranello when he bought his Ferrari as well as has attended multiple driving courses with Porche ranging from track lessons with GT3's to off-roading with Cayennes and ending with nothing less than doing ice circuit driving at the north pole with 911's. Seeing that we are buying the Ferraris of hand held power tools I would expect to get at the very least descent manuals to go with them as well as understandable system integration manuals to understand how each tool can be used with other parts of the system instead of going through it with trial and error. Thankfully Festool US has funded (if I've understood correctly) some great supplemental manuals for some of the tools (for example Domino Guide and Rick's GuidesFestool Germany also published a nice hobbyist targeted Holtzidee-magazine (Wood Ideas) that has projects to build and obviously utilises heavily Festools - unfortunately it's only available in German as far as I know. |
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The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally.  |
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adubeau
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Location: Aurora, IL.... US of A Member Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 171
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« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012, 06:42 PM » |
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Festool weapons: ETS125, RO90, RO125, Dominio 500, Kepex, CT mini, CXS... and the list grows....
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Jaybolishes
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Location: vt Member Since: Apr 2012
Posts: 155
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« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2012, 07:50 PM » |
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Well said Steve
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Steve R
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Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA Member Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 915
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« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2012, 09:03 AM » |
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Well said Steve
Thank you. Cheers, Steve |
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"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)
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RonWen
Retailer
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Location: One of the Thirteen Original Colonies of the United States of America. Member Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 1514
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« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2012, 10:01 AM » |
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As poor as the Festool factory manuals are they probably aren't much worse than most other manufacturer's manuals. The obvious exceptions are outstanding manuals & support such as provided by Leigh jigs. http://www.leighjigs.com/support.phpThankfully, we have this excellent forum and supplemental manuals (also excellent) that Ick painstakingly creates.  |
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JPatrickWinstead
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Location: Northampton, MA Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 16
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2012, 01:03 PM » |
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I agree that the manuals are lousy. I get annoyed every time I buy a new tool. However, I have a theory that they do it on purpose.
Festool is so on top of their game that I find it hard to believe that they couldn't produce a decent instruction manual if they wanted to. They position themselves as the high-end, exclusive choice of people who really know what they're doing. How do you make something exclusive? Make it expensive, and make it require some effort and insider knowledge to use.
Yes, they make great products, but that isn't enough. A major, major asset that Festool has - that most companies would kill for - is a rabidly loyal customer base. This forum is evidence of that. Festool isn't a brand, it's a lifestyle. Forcing people to research in order to learn the tools just pulls them further into that lifestyle, and it further cultivates the user community.
Like most things Festool, I think that it's brilliant.
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3438
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« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2012, 01:26 PM » |
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I agree that the manuals are lousy. I get annoyed every time I buy a new tool. However, I have a theory that they do it on purpose.
Festool is so on top of their game that I find it hard to believe that they couldn't produce a decent instruction manual if they wanted to. They position themselves as the high-end, exclusive choice of people who really know what they're doing. How do you make something exclusive? Make it expensive, and make it require some effort and insider knowledge to use.
Yes, they make great products, but that isn't enough. A major, major asset that Festool has - that most companies would kill for - is a rabidly loyal customer base. This forum is evidence of that. Festool isn't a brand, it's a lifestyle. Forcing people to research in order to learn the tools just pulls them further into that lifestyle, and it further cultivates the user community.
Like most things Festool, I think that it's brilliant.
Maybe you are, but I'm not.  |
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PaulMarcel
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Location: Chandler AZ USA Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 1173
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« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2012, 03:54 PM » |
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Oh, so the shot worked, Ken?  |
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Visit my blog for Festool adventures Shirt size: L  Twitter: @HalfInchShy |
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Tinker
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Location: Ridgefield, CT Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1748
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« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2012, 03:55 PM » |
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Wayne H. Tinker
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Ken Nagrod
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Location: New Jersey Member Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 3438
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« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2012, 04:50 PM » |
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Oh, so the shot worked, Ken? I've built up an immunity. |
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Steve R
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Location: Twin Cities, MN, USA Member Since: Oct 2010
Posts: 915
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« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2012, 11:01 PM » |
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Oh, so the shot worked, Ken? I've built up an immunity. So you are not apart of the loyal Customer base?  Or are saying the shot didn't work  ... and you are beyond help? Hmmm Cheers, Steve |
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"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)
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