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Author Topic: Re: Think I'm selling my Kapex - SOLD  (Read 6403 times)
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Jeff2413

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« on: August 17, 2012, 12:03 PM »

Hey guys, I'm having some real issues with my Kapex.  The bed isn't flat when at 45 either left or right.   The dust collection I feel is way over rated even with the 36mm hose(seems worse with the Tenyru blade) and it throws small moldings for fun I'm thinking.  I was working in a finished kitchen Wednesday and was tying in some base and shoe aroun a door I had just set (it was late arriving), and didn't have a block clamped to cut the shoe mold (had 3 pcs to cut).  Pop! Out it came right into the glass door on the cabinet.  Yeah, it broke.  And the homeowner was there.   Embarrassing to say the least.  I've been using my Hitachi C10FSH every since.  I can cut any material, small or large, with no fear of a kick.  It has 3 times the power and with just the dust bag I honestly don't see much difference vs the Kapex and vacuum.   I hate the fact you almost have to have the vacuum on the Kapex or you will covered in sawdust.  Am I missing a critical factor here?   The hitachi doesn't have quiet the capacity when cutting crown molding but it it's like a dream.  It's lighter and I don't have to carry that darn vac everywhere.   
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Alan m

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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 01:26 PM »

i would send it in for a look. they might adjust something  and make the base level. a jig for cutting moldings would help with the kicking problem.
also you should let the blade stop before raining it. this usually stops the projectiles
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yoda

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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 01:31 PM »

Start with the obvious. Dust suction is all the way up? Is the dust shroud installed on the saw? Unfortunately, flying pieces is almost always 100% user error. Can happen with any saw and any blade. Use a sacrificial fence and zero clearance insert.
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Jeff2413

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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 01:41 PM »

Yeah I've tried all that.  It's all turned up and installed.   Sub fence I use when cutting small stuff but what a pain in the rear for only a couple pcs.  If I'm super careful and slide into the work piece rather than chop I can get away with it.   Idk, after using my Hitachi the last few days I'm asking myself why did I buy this saw?  No need for fences and zero clearance jigs.  Nothing shooting out of it raising my heart rate.  No need for the vacuum.  Coupled with the Sawhelper it is really a super accurate, simple to use set up.  I'm gonna let the Kapex rest for a week or so and decide if it stays or goes. 
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mastercabman

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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 02:45 PM »

Sorry that you are not liking the saw.Yes,i have small pieces flying out but i am very careful now.I never had anything flying that hard.
As for the dust collection,i am suprise that you think is not that great.I have tried many,many saws(sliders that is) and there's nothing that can compare to the Kapex.
Now i do agree with the dust everywhere when no vac is attached.What i hate the most about it,is the miter scale gets covered with dust and I am constantly whipping it off.
My Kapex is about 3 years old now,and the fence,table and everything else is still accurate.All of my joints comes out pretty good.
But if you like your Hitachi better,by all mean,use it!
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I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!
Jeff2413

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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 03:35 PM »

Glad to see I'm not the only one with projectiles. :/.   The dust collection, IMO, is over rated.  It is good for a SCMS but at the end of the day I'm still cleaning up just as big of a mess as I would if I had used my other saw and no vac. And try to use the saw without the vac and you better wear goggles and a mask.  The miter gauge is covered with every cut.  The  dust collection went down hill when I switched from the 60T blade to the 80T Tenyru.  I love the accuracy of the Kapex.  It doesn't scream (loud) like my green saw.   The v-grooves on the sides where I attach my Sawhelper are brilliant and with the Multiblades connector I can use clamps just like with the crown stop. 
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Tim Raleigh

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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 05:03 PM »

I love the accuracy of the Kapex.  It doesn't scream (loud) like my green saw.   The v-grooves on the sides where I attach my Sawhelper are brilliant and with the Multiblades connector I can use clamps just like with the crown stop. 

Sounds like you are talk'n yourself back into keeping it.
I had the projectiles too...nearly shite myself the first time.
Tim
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Kev

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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2012, 05:04 PM »

My Hitachi died and that lead to the KAPEX.

I'm very careful sawing and alway consider potentials - so regardless of saw I've never suffered missile attack.

The DC with the KAPEX and standard Festool blade is excellent for me - the Hitachi with the bag was a mess.

... very different experience from my perspective.

Also, my KAPEX is extremely accurate.

I'd be looking for blockages in the DC plumbing!
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2012, 06:38 PM »

Only you can tell if the Kapex is the saw that you want to use in the future.  If the bed isn't flat send it back to Festool for service.  People here have offered suggestions on how to more control the missile launches.  Personally I can't see how much trouble screwing two pieces of plywood to the fences can be, but then I am not in your shoes.  I found that I had to adjust my style of using the Kapex to maximize the dust collection.  Start the blade and then let the dust collector come on before you let the blade hit the wood.  Try it.  It might make a difference for you too.

I got good mileage out of my Hitachi's but the day the casting that controls the blade depth broke and my helper at that time tried to cut the entire metal table in half was the final fatal straw.

Good luck with your decision.

Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day.  The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy.  They also were in the minority.  Their complaint:  They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in.  I guess the truth hurts.
Jeff2413

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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2012, 07:41 PM »

That's funny.  I have an idiot mark in one of my fences.  I'm going to construct a couple fences out of some 3/4 Baltic I have and give it a run.  I cut everything I can on the flat so the fences are removed most of the time.  The fact that I set up a saw with a vac on it in my clients homes makes a huge impression and the saw is pretty sweet.   Thanks guys for all your input. 
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WarnerConstCo.

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« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2012, 10:30 PM »

That's funny.  I have an idiot mark in one of my fences.  I'm going to construct a couple fences out of some 3/4 Baltic I have and give it a run.  I cut everything I can on the flat so the fences are removed most of the time.  The fact that I set up a saw with a vac on it in my clients homes makes a huge impression and the saw is pretty sweet.   Thanks guys for all your input. 

Stop cutting on the flat, that should solve most of your issues.
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leakyroof

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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2012, 11:11 PM »

That's funny.  I have an idiot mark in one of my fences.  I'm going to construct a couple fences out of some 3/4 Baltic I have and give it a run.  I cut everything I can on the flat so the fences are removed most of the time.  The fact that I set up a saw with a vac on it in my clients homes makes a huge impression and the saw is pretty sweet.   Thanks guys for all your input. 

Stop cutting on the flat, that should solve most of your issues.
Can you elaborate, give us pros and cons of cutting on the flat? Thanks
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sancho57

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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2012, 12:02 AM »

I use a sacreficial fence out of scrap ply. I dont screw it to the fence, I just clamp it to the fence when I need it. Takes about 30 secs.

After that,  no more flying objects.

Dust collection is the best Ive used or seen.

Is it 100% ? No , there isn't a CSMS that is.

I cut my hose to about 5 ft. It improved the dust collection tremendously.

I use my Kapex for cross cutting ply up to 12" in dia no problems.

I also cut small think moldings, no problems (after I add the sacreficial fence)
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festooltim

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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2012, 08:33 AM »

I have had about 4 or 5 different miter boxes and I believe the Kapex is the safest I have had. That being said it does send small pieces of shoe flying sometimes, I don't use a backup fence. I have learned to stop most of it, it rarely happens now. Once I was being careless and let it kick back and it shoved a small piece of 1x into my finger and ripped it open (ouch) needed some medical attention. Some medical supper glue and I was back in business. Except for the throbbing pain when I bumped it. Even after that I still think it it's the safest saw I have used. The user on the other hand doesn't always use safe practices
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BMH

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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2012, 10:41 AM »

This safety video by the wood whisperer explains why things get fling around.

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/miter-saw-safety/?category_name=safety&replytocom=23361#respond
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Nigel

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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2012, 11:11 AM »

Well , I've got a nasty old brute of chop saw and it's never flung any bits ever??? It's hellish noisy though.
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Jeff2413

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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2012, 02:30 PM »

I would agree it is a safe saw other than the flying shoe.  I had it send a pc of base last week up into the guard where it would barely turn.  Jammed up really nice.  Just sorta bums me it does this. 
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j123j

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« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2012, 04:45 PM »

The only beef I have with my kapex is that its noisy as heck. The loudest mitersaw I've used...

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Jeff2413

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« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2012, 05:10 PM »

Seriously??   I think mine is really quiet.  Louder than the junk Dewalt brand but much quieter than my Hitachi. 
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Brice Burrell

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« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2012, 05:40 PM »

The only beef I have with my kapex is that its noisy as heck. The loudest mitersaw I've used...



If that's the case, you must have owned these before.

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Jeff2413

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« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2012, 05:54 PM »

I used one of those for the first 2 projects in shop class. That would have been around 1986. 
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« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2012, 06:14 PM »

Buy a LS0714 if you want the best in DC.
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Brice Burrell

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« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2012, 07:38 PM »

Buy a LS0714 if you want the best in DC.

I know this reply was more of a general comment but as for the op it may not be ideal.  What good is dust collection if it doesn't have the capacity.  The op talked about his 10" Hitachi having less capacity than the Kapex as a negative, the 7 1/2" probably won't cut, pun intended.
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guyk

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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2012, 04:53 PM »

i have used a chop saw for well over 25 years professionally love the kapex but it is the worst missile launcher i have ever used  and no i don't wait for the blade to stop cant make money going slow
i added a zero clearance insert that helped some and use a forest blade that helped as for dust collection i don't use any but it is the dirtiest saw i have ever used the whole front gets covered in a few cuts doesn't bother me but might others with that being said i am about to buy another for the jobsite if that tells you anything
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Christopher Robinson

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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2012, 05:08 PM »

i have ever used  and no i don't wait for the blade to stop cant make money going slow

Kapex has a brake system to allow for fast blade stops, which allows you to let the blade stop before lifting on each cut.  Gives you a better/safer cut.

I don't see much time wasted in getting this better cut, maybe max 2 extra seconds a cut.  If I make 100 cuts in a day (to me that is a LOT of cuts), I've spent max 3 minutes extra waiting on the break for the entire day---thats not much timeprice to pay for better and safer cuts.

Its safer to me NOT to be moving the blade back through a piece while its spinning, on any saw.

Course, if you are used to a pulling back on your blade while its spinning through the work because you have worked with saws your whole life that didn't have brakes, and are used to that workflow, I can see how a change in method might at first come frustrating...but doing the math, should be enough to at least try to use the brake method...

Christopher
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Jeff2413

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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2012, 06:50 PM »

I sold it.  Hitachi C10FSH back in production.   No special jigs or methods required.  I have a pile of great blades.  Same cut quality.   Much more powerful an faster and I have $1100 in my IRA for it.  Done with the Festool craze. 
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duburban

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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2012, 07:56 PM »

the kapex gets praised on here heavily but not in my local group of contractors. that being said, i want one!
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« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2012, 08:53 PM »

Course, if you are used to a pulling back on your blade while its spinning through the work because you have worked with saws your whole life that didn't have brakes, and are used to that workflow, I can see how a change in method might at first come frustrating...but doing the math, should be enough to at least try to use the brake method...

Christopher

Christopher, I'm another one that doesn't wait for the blade to stop.  I know this is toted as a safer method with better cut quality but I disagree with that notion on both accounts.  The idea of it preventing projectiles is marginal at best.  A small cutoff going into the blade and becoming a projectile usually happens as soon as it's cut free, not when the blade is lifted.  As for cut quality, well, I've lifted a spinning blade enough to know the cut quality isn't compromised. 

I've never timed how long it takes for the blade to stop on the Kapex but I'd guess it is longer than two seconds, maybe 3-4.  That seems like an eternity.  I can remove the material from the saw and be half way across the room in that time.  I'm not suggesting anyone should do something they are uncomfortable with.  By all means wait if that is your preferred method.           
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Jeff2413

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« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2012, 09:00 PM »

I have. $400 saw I can cut anything on.    No backers.  No supplemental fences, clamps, etc.   I can cut anything I want on it and not close my eyes afraid something's gonna fly.   I no longer lug that vacuum around.   It was a no-brainer.   The Kapex is soooo over rated its not funny.  I fell into the Festool trap and regret it.    They have great products but the miter saw is a joke IMO. 
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sfay

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« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2012, 09:06 PM »

I have. $400 saw I can cut anything on.    No backers.  No supplemental fences, clamps, etc.   I can cut anything I want on it and not close my eyes afraid something's gonna fly.   I no longer lug that vacuum around.   It was a no-brainer.   The Kapex is soooo over rated its not funny.  I fell into the Festool trap and regret it.    They have great products but the miter saw is a joke IMO. 

You've made your point.  Thanks for sharing. 
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