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Author Topic: TS 75 wandering  (Read 908 times)

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Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 362
TS 75 wandering
« on: November 21, 2017, 06:36 AM »
I had a problem yesterday with my saw wandering away from the splinter guard while sizing some doors. Here are the facts followed by my speculation.

FACTS:
1.  New blade
2.  Continuous track (2700) was used
3.  Amount of material removed was 1/16”
4.  12 cuts were made with no problems, then wander began
5.  Doors being machined are 100+ year old Fir doors with several layers of paint (some layers were lead based of course)
6.  Blade bound , but did not burn the material
7.  Doors are 2+ inches thick and a 2 degree bevel was used at full blade depth

SPECULATIONS:
1.  Amount of material purchase was not enough to keep the teeth engaged in the cut
2.  Blade got warped
3.  Too much side force on saw, not enough down force

Normally, I would have used a power planer, but the amount of material needed to be removed was so minimal and the tolerance for the cut is so tight, that I feel a planer would introduce errors.

I am interested in the forum’s thoughts.

Thanks.
Dance with who brung ya...

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Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 383
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 07:00 AM »
What about goo build up on the blade?
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3402
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 07:32 AM »
I had basically the same problem with my TS75 a few months back, where the saw would fight against the rail and proceed to basically get stuck.  When I removed the blade for inspection you could tell something was off by there being a significant amount of build up of gunk on the face of the blade itself (as opposed to just the teeth).  I ultimately determined that the blade itself was warped, but when I put on a new blade, something still didn't feel quite right about the way it was cutting, even though there was no immediate recurrence of the problem.  So I sent it in for service, they replaced the saw base, and I haven't had the problem since.

I do know, however, that when doing the type of cut you described, there can be interference by the riving knife -- where the knife presses up against the stock rather than entering the kerf that you begin to create at some point during the cut.  It doesn't happen that often, and is not due to any defect, but it does constitute one of the few cases where you have to plan out the cut to avoid blockage from the riving knife (I think the fix for me was just flipping the stock over and starting the cut from the other end).

 
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 07:44 AM »
Sorry for asking potentially stupid questions.  What blade were you using?  Saw speed?  Dust extraction?

If you have any more doors are you willing to try partially deep cuts?

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 362
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2017, 07:57 AM »
Sorry for asking potentially stupid questions.  NO SILLY QUESTIONS, ALL INPUT HELPS.
What blade were you using?  48 Tooth
Saw speed?  6
Dust extraction? Yes

If you have any more doors are you willing to try partially deep cuts?  NOT WILLING TO EXPERIMENT ON THESE VINTAGE DOORS. CAN TRY IN SCRAP STOCK.

Peter
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 362
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 08:00 AM »
I had basically the same problem with my TS75 a few months back, where the saw would fight against the rail and proceed to basically get stuck.  When I removed the blade for inspection you could tell something was off by there being a significant amount of build up of gunk on the face of the blade itself (as opposed to just the teeth).  I ultimately determined that the blade itself was warped, but when I put on a new blade, something still didn't feel quite right about the way it was cutting, even though there was no immediate recurrence of the problem.  So I sent it in for service, they replaced the saw base, and I haven't had the problem since.

I do know, however, that when doing the type of cut you described, there can be interference by the riving knife -- where the knife presses up against the stock rather than entering the kerf that you begin to create at some point during the cut.  It doesn't happen that often, and is not due to any defect, but it does constitute one of the few cases where you have to plan out the cut to avoid blockage from the riving knife (I think the fix for me was just flipping the stock over and starting the cut from the other end).

 
I should have noted that the saw wandered away from the track, not into it.  Also, 12 doors were machined with zero problems prior to this failure.  Thanks for your thoughts.  Keep ‘em coming!
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2017, 08:20 AM »
Thank you for the info.  Personally I would offer that in the future you consider a lower tooth count on your blade.  In cutting doors you are mainly ripping.  For the Ts-75 there are 16, 18, 36, 52, and 60 tooth blades.  I suspect that wood you are cutting is much harder than we normally see today also.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2017, 09:58 AM »
Well first thing to eliminate is build up. I say clean the blade to take that out of the equation.

Seth

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3018
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2017, 10:41 AM »
I had basically the same problem with my TS75 a few months back, where the saw would fight against the rail and proceed to basically get stuck.  When I removed the blade for inspection you could tell something was off by there being a significant amount of build up of gunk on the face of the blade itself (as opposed to just the teeth).  I ultimately determined that the blade itself was warped, but when I put on a new blade, something still didn't feel quite right about the way it was cutting, even though there was no immediate recurrence of the problem.  So I sent it in for service, they replaced the saw base, and I haven't had the problem since.

I do know, however, that when doing the type of cut you described, there can be interference by the riving knife -- where the knife presses up against the stock rather than entering the kerf that you begin to create at some point during the cut.  It doesn't happen that often, and is not due to any defect, but it does constitute one of the few cases where you have to plan out the cut to avoid blockage from the riving knife (I think the fix for me was just flipping the stock over and starting the cut from the other end).

Both problems sound like toe adjustment issues to me but I do wonder why they replaced the base. When replacing the base they must/should have adjusted the toe as well.

Toe issues are exacerbated by increased cutting depth and especially when cutting a bevel. The TS 75 has a know bevel cutting issue in that the blade cuts below the bottom of the splinter guard which could be part of the problem here. (The replacement base might have been to address that undercutting issue. Mostly owners have used shim stock between the base and mounting blocks) A courser tooth blade reduces/conceals the problem (if it's minor) by increasing the clearance for the blade blank (disk).

The down and dirty solution if you don't have time to focus on adjusting toe is to make multiple passes and sneak up on the final cut line. You will get dusty doing so...

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 362
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2017, 11:57 AM »
Thank you for the info.  Personally I would offer that in the future you consider a lower tooth count on your blade.  In cutting doors you are mainly ripping.  For the Ts-75 there are 16, 18, 36, 52, and 60 tooth blades.  I suspect that wood you are cutting is much harder than we normally see today also.

Peter
Very good suggestion. Doors were primarily ripped. I mixed up tooth count when I replied initially. I am not near the saw right now but I believe that the blade used was a 36 tooth.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 12:01 PM by Naildrivingman »
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 362
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2017, 05:32 PM »
Well first thing to eliminate is build up. I say clean the blade to take that out of the equation.

Seth
Blade was cleaned and tried again. This attempt had same results with burn marks. I’m starting to suspect a toe-in issue. I’m going to find some 2” scrap stock and use the old blade. If that behaves the same, I have to assume a toe problem.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 581
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2017, 11:09 PM »
... a toe problem.
A toe problem should be easy to fix: The supplemental manual iirc contains the procedure to match several saws to one rail, that is basically the same procedure as the one you need to adjust toe-in on a single saw.

Offline WastedP

  • Posts: 343
Re: TS 75 wandering
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2017, 05:34 PM »
I replaced the base of a TS75 last month.  The saw blade would drift away from the rail and bind in the material.  I adjusted the green bushings, but the rear dial had a flat spot on it and would only tighten so far, leaving some lateral slop.  I ordered a new set of bushings and decided to adjust the toe-in.  Upon examining the base more closely, I saw that it was worn out.  A literal groove was worn into the side of the channel.  I ordered a new base.  After a bit of set-up and calibration, the saw works more accurately than it ever has during the last year or so that I've been using it.