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Offline mirock

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What disappoints me in Festool
« on: October 31, 2016, 04:52 AM »
Hello colleagues.

I hope moderators won't remove this my thread as it sometimes happens.
I have enough Festool tools to see some small but general problems of this tool trademark.

The most significant of such points for me is absence of tilted base for Carvex, I even tried to make my own variant.

Second - absence of "Plug it" on Festool HL 850. I very quickly have been accustomed to this cool feature but each time I am stumbling of its absence on HL planer. Of course I can buy cable set but there difficult to install "Plug it" socket inside. Outside it is not convenient cause it may not be attached by one hand.

I can recall many of them. I will write them here when it'll come to my mind.)
Need to notice that nothing perfect in this world and all these small lacks are just small lacks but no more.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 05:04 AM by mirock »
my video channels:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJFCZ2slzAMjP6ChFxYPv6A
And:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSDylM1i5mnPHKtfuO0Jjvg
Ts-55\C 12\OF 1400\OF1010\Carvex420\HL 850 EB\Kapex 120\TXS\DR18

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline PatR

  • Posts: 187
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2016, 05:08 AM »
Yep, that Carvex base issue is why I bought the Metabo 18v jigsaw after a back to back test with the Carvex. Its a better jigsaw too in so many ways.

I fitted the pigtail lead to my HL 65 planer as it too had the built-in lead. Inconvenient for one handed use perhaps but makes using my hose/lead combination so much easier. Mind you it looks awful but the connection 'bulge' hasn't got in the way.....yet.

Pat


Offline peterboy

  • Posts: 24
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2016, 05:45 AM »
Same here with the PD20/4 E love the drill, hate the cord.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2016, 06:54 AM »
Maybe someone will start selling an aftermarket tilt base for the Carvex. Collins already sells a coping foot made for it, and a number of other companies manufacture aftermarket accessories for tools like thr MFT and Dominoe. 

Offline Xoncention

  • Posts: 111
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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2016, 07:01 AM »
Second - absence of "Plug it" on Festool HL 850.
Was it you who put the LED in Festool router?  If it was, cool design.  If not, still cool design.

They don't put the plug-it in the OF2200 either.  It is because of current draw and safety.  That is the reason given to me by Festool when I asked after a plug-it version of the corded only tools.

Offline joiner1970

  • Posts: 3217
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2016, 09:14 AM »
Second - absence of "Plug it" on Festool HL 850.
Was it you who put the LED in Festool router?  If it was, cool design.  If not, still cool design.

They don't put the plug-it in the OF2200 either.  It is because of current draw and safety.  That is the reason given to me by Festool when I asked after a plug-it version of the corded only tools.
Yep that was him, he's a clever fella.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk


Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1920
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2016, 09:39 AM »

The most significant of such points for me is absence of tilted base for Carvex...

I'd be very interested in a regular type tilt base for my Carvex
+1

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2016, 10:39 AM »
   Though this is almost more of a Wish List topic it is a bit of a gray area as to where it should be posted.

   In any case there is no reason ( at this point) to remove it. Some topics and posts  (yes, a couple of mirock's) get removed due to safety /  liability concerns with modifications to tools. Even if the set up is actually safe and or very well constructed.

    Over the years I have had to remove a good number of things that I thought were excellent.

   That is just the way it is ..................

Seth

Offline Luzzy

  • Posts: 109
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2016, 11:43 AM »
Single biggest issue for me is the rail system specifically the joining of multiples of different sizes. It's the reason I switched to Mafell track saws in all variations ( mt55,kss400,kss40).

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 12:15 PM »
This is really a small thing, but when you spend $500 or $600 for a sander, it would be nice if Festool included the same kind of sample pack of abrasives that's included with the $99 Pro 5.  The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Just my two cents....

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2016, 12:28 PM »
This is really a small thing, but when you spend $500 or $600 for a sander, it would be nice if Festool included the same kind of sample pack of abrasives that's included with the $99 Pro 5.  The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Just my two cents....

Some say it just rubs them the wrong way...  [wink]

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 790
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2016, 12:44 PM »
No plug-it on the RAS either.  I hate cramming cords into systainers.

Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 08:34 PM »
I really read this as a "glass half full" perspective. When it comes to Plug-it leads, I'm pleased that a large number of my Festools have it. I fully understand why some of the bigger machines don't .. as for the others, running updates to the range may sort this out. It's unlikely that Festool would look to update the casing of a machine to simply incorporate Plug-it .. they'd look to incorporate other beneficial updates at the same time.

@mirock .. please start a wish list entry for CARVEX "traditional" tilting base, I'd certainly like one. If Festool doesn't make one, Seneca, TSO or other may jump in with something cool.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5067
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2016, 10:32 PM »
The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Agree 100%...kind of like visiting your dentist and after you pay your bill in full, they peel off one piece of dental floss and put it in a plastic bag for you to take home and use later.  [eek]

One piece of sandpaper does nothing for corporate goodwill. The idea of sampling various grits of sandpaper is not about getting "free stuff", it's about finding out what grit/grits level you may need to use with that particular sander to get your task completed. 40 grit with an RO will yield different results than 40 with an ETC/3 or 40 with an ETC/5. Either include a selection of grits or forget about it.

I've railed about the ineptness of the Festool marketing group in the past, and unfortunately, nothing has changed, the latest Pro 5 fiasco is just another example along with this whole silly imperial/metric discussion. I'll have some more to add on that Pro 5 deal later. 

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 08:37 AM by Cheese »

Offline Cochese

  • Posts: 297
    • The 144 Workshop
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 12:19 AM »
I think if you are going to have a no questions asked return period, you either need to also apply that proportionally to related consumables or put enough in the package to do a fair evaluation. The ten sheets I clicked in the Pro5 are just right, IMO. Enough to take you through all the grits on a small project. I think the Domino should include about 10-20 tenons as well. Not even an assortment, the same size would work. Enough to join up a couple of boards is all you need.

That isnt quite as important as the sandpaper, though, because you can spend so much more buying at even the minimum packs to get a range to sand. And then you are stuclk with the remaining paper.

Keep in mind here I'm talking about a customer that might not know that some dealers can put together an assortment!sent or know that you can get some money for that paper here. $70 sanders may not include any either, but then again they are $70.

There's a ton of other things I could add, but that line of thinking mentioned above really spoke to me. There are some other tools like the routers that are in desperate need of features found on tools 1/5 the price.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2672
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2016, 12:53 AM »
This is really a small thing, but when you spend $500 or $600 for a sander, it would be nice if Festool included the same kind of sample pack of abrasives that's included with the $99 Pro 5.  The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Just my two cents....

Most other sander brands sold down under also only include one or two sheets of paper or none at all. So I do not expect Festool to be any different.

What disappoints me about Festool, is the differentiation of 'Service all Inclusive' between Festool Aust., and that offered in the UK and NA [See 'One for the Aussies']! Although I must say that the registration process provided with my most recent  purchase two weeks ago was a vast improvement over past experiences.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 01:22 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2016, 03:45 AM »
This is really a small thing, but when you spend $500 or $600 for a sander, it would be nice if Festool included the same kind of sample pack of abrasives that's included with the $99 Pro 5.  The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Just my two cents....

Most other sander brands sold down under also only include one or two sheets of paper or none at all. So I do not expect Festool to be any different.

What disappoints me about Festool, is the differentiation of 'Service all Inclusive' between Festool Aust., and that offered in the UK and NA [See 'One for the Aussies']! Although I must say that the registration process provided with my most recent  purchase two weeks ago was a vast improvement over past experiences.


Truthfully the rest of the world probably see the US as not only expecting an item to come with a lifetime on consumables, also a labourer to do the work free for the first 6 months!

When it comes to buying a sander that potentially has 5 different types of abrasive and 10 different grits for each, I see the inclusion of 1 piece of abrasive as a means to ensure the equipment works ... anything further and you're paying for it, whether you believe it or not.

I want, I think I should get, I deserve, I should have ... other people give me, so therefore ...

If this isn't the expectation of privilege I don't know what is. I bet that if Festool US introduced a 50 abrasive sample pack with all sanders and increased prices by $30~50 there'd be civil revolution [eek] [big grin]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2016, 05:18 AM »
...
If this isn't the expectation of privilege I don't know what is. I bet that if Festool US introduced a 50 abrasive sample pack with all sanders and increased prices by $30~50 there'd be civil revolution [eek] [big grin]

Actually just the assorted pack, for people to try them, would sell like hotcake... or vegemite-sangas .

Yes... a few good places repackage them into assortment packs... but as it always comes up in the forum, this seems like a no brainer marketing move.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2016, 05:30 AM »
This is really a small thing, but when you spend $500 or $600 for a sander, it would be nice if Festool included the same kind of sample pack of abrasives that's included with the $99 Pro 5.  The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Just my two cents....

Most other sander brands sold down under also only include one or two sheets of paper or none at all. So I do not expect Festool to be any different.

What disappoints me about Festool, is the differentiation of 'Service all Inclusive' between Festool Aust., and that offered in the UK and NA [See 'One for the Aussies']! Although I must say that the registration process provided with my most recent  purchase two weeks ago was a vast improvement over past experiences.


Truthfully the rest of the world probably see the US as not only expecting an item to come with a lifetime on consumables, also a labourer to do the work free for the first 6 months!

When it comes to buying a sander that potentially has 5 different types of abrasive and 10 different grits for each, I see the inclusion of 1 piece of abrasive as a means to ensure the equipment works ... anything further and you're paying for it, whether you believe it or not.

I want, I think I should get, I deserve, I should have ... other people give me, so therefore ...

If this isn't the expectation of privilege I don't know what is. I bet that if Festool US introduced a 50 abrasive sample pack with all sanders and increased prices by $30~50 there'd be civil revolution [eek] [big grin]

I hope you're joking about the American entitlement bit. Unlike the UK and Europe?, people in the USA don't get a replacement festool tool if theirs is under warranty and stolen. Festool customers in the USA don't get a huge number of the Festool and Former Protool tools that were sold in Europe and!! Australia. I understand with the tools there are voltage issues, but the availability issue also includes accessories for tools that are sold in the USA, and includes things like collets, batteries, and certain abrasive types. The prices, especially for accessories, are sometimes significantly higher in the USA, than they are in Europe, and I recall this as being the case even before the €&£ dropped in value in relation to the $. Europe also gets Plugit cords in different lengths and materials, which has only been sort of corrected in the USA. Makita doesn't even sell some of their tools in the USA, even if they're selling the tools in Canada.

Including a sample pack of abrasives, with a sheet or two of several different grits, and maybe a few sheets of the different types of abrasives would give customers a better chance if testing the tools right after purchase. The Festool round pad sanders use a different hole pattern than other sanders, so you can't simply purchase a smsll pack of paper from a local hardware store to properly test the sanders. Some of the other Festool sanders also use non standard paper sizes for the USA. Bosch and a number of other professional brands include a few free jigsaw blades when you buy a saw, and Fein includes a few blades and/or abrasives when you buy a multimaster, and did even back when they were mostly only seen in the industrial market.

Offline aterren

  • Posts: 5
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2016, 09:51 AM »
I fitted the pigtail lead to my HL 65 planer as it too had the built-in lead.

Are female pigtails avialable?    If so, how would I order one?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2016, 09:57 AM »
I do not believe that the female adapters are availed here in the US due to potential product liability concerns.

Peter

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2016, 11:15 AM »
@Kev, Do we detect some hostility towards your American cousins?

I am truly sorry if I've offended you in any way, but it's certainly not a matter of all Americans feeling "entitled" to anything, just one guy's opinion.  As I even stated "it's really a small thing", let's not blow it out of proportion.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 11:18 AM by Steve-Rice »

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1810
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2016, 01:30 PM »
Seeing all these comments . . . I realized that I have never bought a "perfect" tool, including the Domino (although it is my favorite tool of all time). There are no perfect tools, just some that are closer than others. There will always be something about a tool that isn't exactly the way you want it to be.
Randy

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5067
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2016, 01:42 PM »
There will always be something about a tool that isn't exactly the way you want it to be.


Amen...

Offline Daver

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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2016, 03:03 PM »

Truthfully the rest of the world probably see the US as not only expecting an item to come with a lifetime on consumables, also a labourer to do the work free for the first 6 months!


When I first bought my TS 55 REQ, some guy named Horst pitched up the next day and was always wanting to use the thing when I was trying to work. Darn good carpenter and a lot better with that saw than I was.
He was a nice bloke but after a time he went on walkabout and never returned.

Come to think of it, he may have left 6 months after I got the saw.
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2016, 03:17 PM »


Truthfully the rest of the world probably see the US as not only expecting an item to come with a lifetime on consumables, also a labourer to do the work free for the first 6 months!


This is outrageous.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1920
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2016, 03:33 PM »
There will always be something about a tool that isn't exactly the way you want it to be.

For me it's usually the price  [big grin]
+1

Offline mirock

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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2016, 05:21 PM »
One more point.

(I've took Seneca's photo but here isn't about their cool devices)

About quality of aluminum casting...



These broken-off pieces and visible jagged edges on the base platform. Such roughly removed casting intakes we can find everywhere. Why wouldn't grind them?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 05:23 PM by mirock »
my video channels:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJFCZ2slzAMjP6ChFxYPv6A
And:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSDylM1i5mnPHKtfuO0Jjvg
Ts-55\C 12\OF 1400\OF1010\Carvex420\HL 850 EB\Kapex 120\TXS\DR18

Offline mirock

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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2016, 05:24 PM »
There will always be something about a tool that isn't exactly the way you want it to be.

For me it's usually the price  [big grin]

 [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]
Exactly
my video channels:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJFCZ2slzAMjP6ChFxYPv6A
And:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSDylM1i5mnPHKtfuO0Jjvg
Ts-55\C 12\OF 1400\OF1010\Carvex420\HL 850 EB\Kapex 120\TXS\DR18

Offline DzordanoBruno

  • Posts: 140
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2016, 05:27 PM »
Low quality of PDC18/4..
Problems with angles on TS55.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2672
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2016, 07:36 PM »
@Rip Van Winkle  @Steve-Rice  @Daver  @Dovetail65 

Gentlemen, obviously I can not speak for @Kev but as a bias Aussie observer, I believe he is intentially 'baiting' you. Bit of a 'sport' down here.  [smile]

We are all entitled to a 'winge' from time to time, even about Festool. From the perspective of many Australian FOG members I have to say that you in NA appear from a distance to overall get a better deal than us. Even NAINA has in the past two years become for us LCTHI as in 'last country to have it'. Examples include, as in last country or lower specification of batts - the C18, TSC, HKC and HK 55.

Sure you do not have free warranty tool insurance, but neither do we; you enjoy a better repair service under warranty because it is direct rather than dealer based, and of late better promotions including the 125mm Sander Pro Deal and percentage discount on tool and DE combinations. And please do not wing about the prices you pay.

At times we do get a better product. For example both the 1400 Router and HK55 sold here have brakes unlike your NA equivalents. I do not nderstand why  this feature can not be acoomidated on 110 V tools!

But Hey, most of us like the product; well with some exceptions! That at least is a common link. I hope this explains a little more an Aussie perspective here.

If it does'nt perhaps this will -



Hey! Only baiting!😀 [smile]
______________


As to choice of sand papers @Rip Van Winkle You may find that Makita 1/2 sheet and 125 & 150mm discs will fit equivalent Festool sanders as the Makita hole patterns somewhat overlap. The exception is the Makita 1/4 sheet. However I prefer the Festool papers and even use them on my Makita 1/2 sheet.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 08:06 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2016, 08:33 PM »
@Rip Van Winkle  @Steve-Rice  @Daver  @Dovetail65 

Gentlemen, obviously I can not speak for @Kev but as a bias Aussie observer, I believe he is intentially 'baiting' you. Bit of a 'sport' down here.  [smile]

We are all entitled to a 'winge' from time to time, even about Festool. From the perspective of many Australian FOG members I have to say that you in NA appear from a distance to overall get a better deal than us. Even NAINA has in the past two years become for us LCTHI as in 'last country to have it'. Examples include, as in last country or lower specification of batts - the C18, TSC, HKC and HK 55.

Sure you do not have free warranty tool insurance, but neither do we; you enjoy a better repair service under warranty because it is direct rather than dealer based, and of late better promotions including the 125mm Sander Pro Deal and percentage discount on tool and DE combinations. And please do not wing about the prices you pay.

At times we do get a better product. For example both the 1400 Router and HK55 sold here have brakes unlike your NA equivalents. I do not nderstand why  this feature can not be acoomidated on 110 V tools!

But Hey, most of us like the product; well with some exceptions! That at least is a common link. I hope this explains a little more an Aussie perspective here.
______________

As to choice of sand papers @Rip Van Winkle at least down here you will find that Makita 1/2 sheet and 125 & 150mm discs will fit equivalent Festool sanders as the Makita hole patterns somewhat overlap. The exception is the Makita 1/4 sheet. However I prefer the Festool papers and even use them on my Makita 1/2 sheet.

You guys are too easy ...

I'll give another perspective. But this one is actually real ...

If you have any kind of product and you're outside of the US, the idea of entering the US market is both very enticing and incredibly scary. To take a product into the US you will need to provide massive inventory for "potential" business (otherwise a flaw in your supply reliability will cripple you), greater warranty, marketing, sales support ... all at a lower price than you'd get elsewhere on the planet. Your product will need to be localised and if it's mains powered, this can be a major reengineering cost. On top of this there's you legal considerations, approvals, insurances and all the other risks that come from the legal framework making it more risky to provide products and services in the US v's most other parts of the world.

If you've every been a customer of a company that's deciding to take their product to the US, you're not surprised when your local service declines and prices rise. Other large potential markets have their own problems ... take something to China or India and your product is almost instantly copied and your price model is undercut.

The global market and general expectation has just evolved that the US generally expects a lot more .. even food sizes. I remember my very first trip to the US and feeling exhausted after a bad flight. I shambled up to a counter and asked for a large black coffee and was presented with something the must have contained a litre of coffee [eek]

Wind this all back to abrasive sample packs. If you're buying your first Festool sander and you're buying online, expecting to evaluate the tool and using the 30 day evaluation umbrella, I can see that the tool turning up with one sheet of abrasive when you were "expecting" more could be frustration for some. The fact is, for Festool's popular sanders their range of abrasives is massive and it could be more of a negative to have a bunch of abrasives that you try that are not suitable for your intended use.

I've got many "sample packs" of abrasives still in their sealed bags as they were inappropriate for my purposes. What I'd like to see is actual "starter packs" for specific types of abrasives .. maybe offered at a percentage off alongside an initial tool purchase (raw timber, paint & prep, auto & bodywork, etc).

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 723
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2016, 09:50 PM »
In regards to the sample packs - I think you are supposed to try the sander at the dealer first....

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2016, 11:01 PM »
In regards to the sample packs - I think you are supposed to try the sander at the dealer first....

I can see where geography can limit this .. both in the US and Oz specifically. This plays very obviously into the trial window in the US too. A growing portion of sales would be web based and are made because of product reputation and 30 day evaluation.

Flipside though, I can fully sympathise where the tool costs ~$500 and you need 10 different grits and you're talking ~$75 per grit. Again though, purchasing starter packs for specific applications rather than relatively random sample packs makes more sense. Festool have come out with polishing sets, oil application sets .. more recently Domino sets, D14 sys sets etc and it's not like they need to create anything new.


Offline Daver

  • Posts: 169
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Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2016, 11:03 PM »
@Kev @Untidy Shop

Guys guys guys guys guys...

Come on lads.
Can you seriously not see the sarcasm in my post?
It was 100% sarcasm.
I utilized the long form improv rule of "Yes and", I heightened and extended Kev's glorious suggestion about the laborer, I hit send-
and my joke apparently fell flat.

This is strike two for me. In a previous thread some time back, I tried to get a laugh out of some of our british cousins on the FOG by quoting/paraphrasing from Sexy Beast.

Shall I fail again in the future, I may need to give serious consideration to writing straight posts only- no humor.
This would be a grim day indeed.   [tongue]

Cheers,
Dave
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2016, 11:25 PM »
@Kev @Untidy Shop

Guys guys guys guys guys...

Come on lads.
Can you seriously not see the sarcasm in my post?
It was 100% sarcasm.
I utilized the long form improv rule of "Yes and", I heightened and extended Kev's glorious suggestion about the laborer, I hit send-
and my joke apparently fell flat.

This is strike two for me. In a previous thread some time back, I tried to get a laugh out of some of our british cousins on the FOG by quoting/paraphrasing from Sexy Beast.

Shall I fail again in the future, I may need to give serious consideration to writing straight posts only- no humor.
This would be a grim day indeed.   [tongue]

Cheers,
Dave

@Daver

I guarantee we both got it [wink] [big grin] .. sadly the broader group went a little serious. Life's is certainly too short to be serious all the time. For a moment I was going to say something about you trumping my post with a capital "T", but I won't be do that.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2672
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2016, 11:48 PM »
@Kev @Untidy Shop

Guys guys guys guys guys...

Come on lads.
Can you seriously not see the sarcasm in my post?
It was 100% sarcasm.
I utilized the long form improv rule of "Yes and", I heightened and extended Kev's glorious suggestion about the laborer, I hit send-
and my joke apparently fell flat.

This is strike two for me. In a previous thread some time back, I tried to get a laugh out of some of our british cousins on the FOG by quoting/paraphrasing from Sexy Beast.

Shall I fail again in the future, I may need to give serious consideration to writing straight posts only- no humor.
This would be a grim day indeed.   [tongue]

Cheers,
Dave


It's OK @Daver , I got the sarcasm/joke; please keep on trying.  [smile] It was a good one and certainly crossed the cultural devide here.  [big grin]
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 03:27 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2016, 12:16 AM »
@Kev @Untidy Shop

Guys guys guys guys guys...

Come on lads.
Can you seriously not see the sarcasm in my post?
It was 100% sarcasm.
I utilized the long form improv rule of "Yes and", I heightened and extended Kev's glorious suggestion about the laborer, I hit send-
and my joke apparently fell flat.

This is strike two for me. In a previous thread some time back, I tried to get a laugh out of some of our british cousins on the FOG by quoting/paraphrasing from Sexy Beast.

Shall I fail again in the future, I may need to give serious consideration to writing straight posts only- no humor.
This would be a grim day indeed.   [tongue]

Cheers,
Dave

@Daver

I guarantee we both got it [wink] [big grin] .. sadly the broader group went a little serious. Life's is certainly too short to be serious all the time. For a moment I was going to say something about you trumping my post with a capital "T", but I won't be do that.

Sorry I didn't get that you were trying to stroke the wallaby, or toss the wombat pebbles, or whatever sarcasm is called in marsupial land. A "T" joke probably wouldn't have been adviced given the Hillaryously Grumpy climate in the USA at the current moment.

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2016, 03:22 AM »
I would just be happy if my tools were fixed the first time I sent them in, they came back set up square, and they didn't have half stripped screw heads.

Play your didgeridoo, Blue
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2016, 03:48 AM »
I would just be happy if my tools were fixed the first time I sent them in, they came back set up square, and they didn't have half stripped screw heads.

Play your didgeridoo, Blue

"Service All Abusive"

Offline Daver

  • Posts: 169
  • checkered shirt guy
    • Moonbase Alpha
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2016, 04:57 AM »
Sorry I didn't get that you were trying to stroke the wallaby, or toss the wombat pebbles, or whatever sarcasm is called in marsupial land. A "T" joke probably wouldn't have been adviced given the Hillaryously Grumpy climate in the USA at the current moment.

It was a dingo that ate my baby. [eek]
Your work should reflect your fingerprints. -James Krenov
I'm not funny. What I am is brave. -Lucille Ball

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5709
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2016, 05:16 AM »
What disappoints me in Festool is their service. It is absolute crap here in The Netherlands.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2016, 05:20 AM »
What disappoints me in Festool is their service. It is absolute crap here in The Netherlands.

@Alex here I was under the impression that you probably perform 50% of the Festool service work in the Netherlands [big grin]

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3594
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2016, 06:58 AM »
Razor meet razor blades.

This is really a small thing, but when you spend $500 or $600 for a sander, it would be nice if Festool included the same kind of sample pack of abrasives that's included with the $99 Pro 5.  The single sheet of abrasive paper included with their sanders is almost an insult, especially considering the price of the tool.

Just my two cents....
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline tony_sheehan

  • Posts: 110
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2016, 07:24 AM »
"Razor meet razor blades."

Spot on, Edward

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5709
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2016, 07:54 AM »
What disappoints me in Festool is their service. It is absolute crap here in The Netherlands.

@Alex here I was under the impression that you probably perform 50% of the Festool service work in the Netherlands [big grin]

Yes, yes, you're right, I have to because there's a huge gap to fill.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 621
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2016, 10:58 AM »
One more point.

(I've took Seneca's photo but here isn't about their cool devices)

About quality of aluminum casting...



These broken-off pieces and visible jagged edges on the base platform. Such roughly removed casting intakes we can find everywhere. Why wouldn't grind them?

That is not an issue of the Mafell products.

Offline mwahaha

  • Posts: 110
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2016, 02:15 PM »
One more point.

(I've took Seneca's photo but here isn't about their cool devices)

About quality of aluminum casting...



These broken-off pieces and visible jagged edges on the base platform. Such roughly removed casting intakes we can find everywhere. Why wouldn't grind them?

That is not an issue of the Mafell products.

Grinder n paint makes me the caster I aint
Makin' chips since ages ago

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #48 on: November 02, 2016, 02:24 PM »
What disappoints me in Festool is some of the tools take way to long between major updates, up to 10 years.

After taking the Rotex sanders apart my 2007 model appears identical to my 2107 model. And in my heart I believe the 2007 works a bit better and I dont think it's in my mind(whyy I took them art in the first place). The 2007 seems to spin ever so slightly faster than my new one.

Regardless, it's time for a revamp for the Rotex sanders. The Rotex in regular mode is not a very good sander and the reason many send it back. A great finish is very difficult to achieve with it. Hogging off lumber and getting it ready for the next phase of sanding is what a Rotex excels at. If it didn't have regular mode I wouldn't even care. I would rather see all the tech go into the rotary mode, put the money there and just let us buy the ETS EC for the next sanding passes. Or get that regular mode up to the sanding quality of a 150 ETS EC.

The routers need updates badly and are getting stale as well. What is it 7 or 8 years already?. They all need LED's and all need a new 4 point contact to hold the bars for accessories.

I am hoping updates come out for these routers soon. I will buy a new updated OF 2200 the first day.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1810
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2016, 09:18 PM »
Why would you take them apart? Was there something wrong with them?
Randy

Offline J Voos

  • Posts: 19
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #50 on: November 16, 2016, 09:56 PM »
I have a bunch of Festool equipment, but I hate that Festool hides behind UL certification for not bringing more products to the US.  More specifically, the fact their isn't an adapter for the plug-it system for their older tools.  This isn't acceptable, IMO.  We pay lots for their vacuums and accessories, and the inability to simply adapt all our equipment to use the vac plugs is crazy, specifically on the expensive hoses with the cord and sleeves.

Offline Spiff

  • Posts: 110
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #51 on: November 16, 2016, 10:54 PM »
FILTER AVAILABILITY!!

A thing that really bugs me is that the stuff is made in Germany, but Festool refuse to sell me a HEPA filter for my Mini vac because I don't live in the US  [blink] [mad]

How come America can buy HEPA filtration and I can't, eh??  Are my Euro lungs not worthy, or are the Yanks just fragile?  [scratch chin]

I contacted Festool UK to ask about availability and they began by denying the part even existed.  They acted like I was asking the DoD about aliens at Area 51 or something.  Several emails later they grudgingly admitted to a rumour of such a thing when confronted head-on with the actual product code, but insisted it was no longer made.

I ended up importing mine direct from America, and even though I was gouged on the price it's still a worthwhile upgrade imho.  HEPA grade filtration in a compact form factor is just what I need for the fine sanding I do, and Festool needs to offer the Mini and Midi with HEPA option.  My guess is they don't in order to force users towards the much pricier M class CTL's

Incidentally, if any friendly US dealers are reading this post and would be happy to send me more mini HEPA filters in future I'd be grateful if you'd drop me a line.  I expect others over here in Europe-shire would be interested also.

Online Bohdan

  • Posts: 885
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2016, 04:25 AM »
We have them in Australia part #496752.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7651
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2016, 04:54 AM »

How come America can buy HEPA filtration and I can't, eh??  Are my Euro lungs not worthy, or are the Yanks just fragile?  [scratch chin]


Well ... John Wayne did convince everyone that smoking Camel cigarettes was good for you [sad]

I think you just need to talk to different sources! I can't possibly imagine that you couldn't get a HEPA filter in Europe if you can get them in US and Oz.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 301
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2016, 06:44 AM »
FILTER AVAILABILITY!!

A thing that really bugs me is that the stuff is made in Germany, but Festool refuse to sell me a HEPA filter for my Mini vac because I don't live in the US  [blink] [mad]

How come America can buy HEPA filtration and I can't, eh??  Are my Euro lungs not worthy, or are the Yanks just fragile?  [scratch chin]

I contacted Festool UK to ask about availability and they began by denying the part even existed.  They acted like I was asking the DoD about aliens at Area 51 or something.  Several emails later they grudgingly admitted to a rumour of such a thing when confronted head-on with the actual product code, but insisted it was no longer made.

I ended up importing mine direct from America, and even though I was gouged on the price it's still a worthwhile upgrade imho.  HEPA grade filtration in a compact form factor is just what I need for the fine sanding I do, and Festool needs to offer the Mini and Midi with HEPA option.  My guess is they don't in order to force users towards the much pricier M class CTL's

Incidentally, if any friendly US dealers are reading this post and would be happy to send me more mini HEPA filters in future I'd be grateful if you'd drop me a line.  I expect others over here in Europe-shire would be interested also.

When the smaller Festool vacs were fist sold in the USA, Festool didn't offer Hepa filters for them, the vacs came with the standard 1 micron filters. I'm not sure when festool started offering the Hepa filters, but there was legislation passed in the USA, requiring contractors to use certified Hepa vacuums, and other precautions when doing work anywhere there might be lead paint. Either Festool started offering the filters to meet the regulations, or enough customers requested the filters, that Festool started offering them.

Offline Spiff

  • Posts: 110
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2016, 10:01 AM »

Quote
....
I think you just need to talk to different sources! I can't possibly imagine that you couldn't get a HEPA filter in Europe if you can get them in US and Oz.

You'd think, Kev.  But just you try convincing Festool UK of that !!!  [mad]  [dead horse]

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8614
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2016, 10:10 AM »
    I don't really know the full Festool vac line or the regulations and such for UK. But I do know  there is a broader range of specialized vacs intended for the purpose of hazardous material / HEPA work, right?  is the lack of a HEPA filter for the Mini possibly because the Mini would not meet the requirements just by adding a HEPA filter?

Seth

Offline Spiff

  • Posts: 110
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2016, 10:24 AM »
    I don't really know the full Festool vac line or the regulations and such for UK. But I do know  there is a broader range of specialized vacs intended for the purpose of hazardous material / HEPA work, right?  is the lack of a HEPA filter for the Mini possibly because the Mini would not meet the requirements just by adding a HEPA filter?

Seth

There is indeed Seth, but they cost a great deal more and they're way bigger than the Mini.  My point really boils down to this - if it's available in the US then why not here in Europe too? Obviously the Mini has the ability to be made to HEPA standards.  Unless we're suggesting that the US HEPA standard is inferior to the EU Class M.  But then, Festool sell the larger CT vacs in both the US and Europe, in both HEPA and non HEPA (Class M and Class L) models - hence proving it would be possible to do the same for the Mini.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1920
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2016, 10:52 AM »
I have a bunch of Festool equipment, but I hate that Festool hides behind UL certification for not bringing more products to the US.  More specifically, the fact their isn't an adapter for the plug-it system for their older tools.  This isn't acceptable, IMO.  We pay lots for their vacuums and accessories, and the inability to simply adapt all our equipment to use the vac plugs is crazy, specifically on the expensive hoses with the cord and sleeves.

I suspect it's all about insurance cost and liability protections, especially in our litigious nation.
+1

Offline MichaelB

  • Posts: 8
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2016, 11:15 AM »
ill add my 02 cents and would like to see a dedicated pocket in all the Systainers for the manuals.

also why does my track saw have a different plug than my sander and domino?

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1920
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2016, 11:52 AM »
ill add my 02 cents and would like to see a dedicated pocket in all the Systainers for the manuals.
That would be nice

Quote
also why does my track saw have a different plug than my sander and domino?

Wire gauge and amps
+1

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Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 126
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2016, 01:47 PM »
Another vote for a manual pocket

Offline Jason Kehl

  • Posts: 114
Re: What disappoints me in Festool
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2016, 10:37 PM »
I'd like to see a decent belt hook on the PDC 18. It hit the ground today and smashed the lower section of the drill body and damaged the battery, this is going to be expensive and all do to a poorly designed belt hook.