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Author Topic: What happened to my kapex?  (Read 6525 times)

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Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1143
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2018, 11:27 AM »
Man, this is so disheartening.  Being that I'm in my 3rd week of my new Kapex, this is really, really getting me anxious.  Do I take the chance and keep the saw?

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?
-Raj

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Offline Joe Felchlin

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Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2018, 12:15 PM »
Hey Jobsworth:
I hear ya, Man.
From reading the FOG - Day to day - Week to week - Month to month - I’m not sure -
But there seems to be a “pattern” with these Festool failures/problems.
1.
The failures/problems appear to be with the more popular/“larger” Festool products...
Kapex... TS 55... Domino Joiners... Dust Extractors...
The “smaller” Festool products - Drills and Sanders - Seldom seem to have problems.
2.
Not ALL of these particular more popular/“larger” Festool products are having failures/problems.
But, the number appears to be large enough to warrant frustrations/misgivings about past and future Festool purchases.
3.
The failures/problems seem to be with the “sold when brand new” tools.
There seldom are many postings about Recon products having failures/problems.
4.
Lastly - And to your point Jobsworth - The failures/problems posted - Seem to be about these popular/“larger” Festool products - Manufactured during the last few years.
Like your 7-8 year old Kapex -
NONE of my “OLDER” manufactured Festool products - Have had any failures/problems.
(My Domino XL DF700EQ - Bought in FEB 2016 - Was a “disaster”. Festool finally replaced it with a new one - Calibrated by Festool Service before shipping it to me.)

I’m not sure if my FOG readings/analysis is totally “right on”. But...
It makes ya wonder: What’s changed at Festool the last few years?

I do know this: I love my Festool tools/products. I wouldn’t sell ‘em or trade ‘em.
And I’ll buy tools off the Recon posts. I do it believing that they’ve been “checked out”.
(I’ve bought a couple the last few months.)
Festool can keep ignoring the situation - And “denying” they have a problem.
But, I won’t be buying any of Festool’s “larger” NEWLY MANUFACTURED products -
Until I stop seeing failures/problems about ‘em on the FOG.

Bet I’m not alone. [unsure]
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 04:43 PM by Joe Felchlin »
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Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 346
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2018, 01:06 PM »

Like Gregor said this would only work if the repaired ones lasted but they don’t,  mine burnt out twice both 3 years apart. 

Reading others and with my experience the average life span of a professionally used kapex would be 3-4years which is pretty poor

Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?
Vijay Kumar

Offline Gregor

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Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2018, 02:49 PM »

Like Gregor said this would only work if the repaired ones lasted but they don’t,  mine burnt out twice both 3 years apart. 

Reading others and with my experience the average life span of a professionally used kapex would be 3-4years which is pretty poor

Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

According to the label on the photo: 120V.

Online JD2720

  • Posts: 983
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2018, 03:32 PM »
What year did Festool start building the bad Kapexs?

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 346
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2018, 03:50 PM »
Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

According to the label on the photo: 120V.

I was asking @jmbfestool  since he is located in the UK
Vijay Kumar

Offline Corey P.

  • Posts: 16
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2018, 06:03 PM »
Man, this is so disheartening.  Being that I'm in my 3rd week of my new Kapex, this is really, really getting me anxious.  Do I take the chance and keep the saw?

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?

Yeah, that's the bad part for sure.  I'm going to reach out to them and see if they'll offer an extended warranty passed the 3 years.  If they believe in their products, they should stand behind them.  I'm sure others have tried as well, but I'll at least see what they say and voice my concern. 

And, OP, I was of course not rubbing in the fact that your machine was 3 years old, I was only asking since I'm still under my 30 day period, and would like as many opinions as possible.  For the price of the machine, I expect quality and longevity.  If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely want to help someone out if they were within their return period.  Any advice either way is appreciated. 

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 271
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2018, 06:14 PM »
I feel sorry for you regarding your expensive mistake.  I also feel a bit aggrieved that so many of your peers are similarly affected too.  It's down to the company, I believe, to do the right thing:  remove these duds immediately from sale & offer unfortunate purchasers full refunds.

The company has clearly had sufficient time to increase the diameter of the windings within the motor to handle the doubled (low voltage) current, but have chosen not to.  Likewise, consumers have had more than adequate time to either choose an alternative, more robust & reliable product or divest themselves of their erroneous purchase.

Those that continue to purchase this clearly inadequate low-voltage version of this palpably faulty product should however accept responsibility for their own mistake/s.  Just as somebody who purchases property in a bushfire/flood/landslide/earthquake/cyclone prone environment, or seafront property at risk of erosion post 1970 (when the effects of global warming/CO2/Methane atmospheric increase became well publicised) must likewise shoulder responsibility for their poor decision making.

Given that the problem of the Kapex field coil windings' inability to handle normal household levels of 110v current has been well publicised for at least the past 3 years, and possibly much longer, it's perhaps a mite disingenuous to expect the company to warrant their faulty product beyond the statutory 3 year period.

The company is allowed, perhaps even justified, in selling dud merchandise, provided warranty protection extends to the publicised 3 year period.  The Caveat Emptor clause nevertheless applies to those foolish enough to ignore the ample warnings published by others.  If you knowingly purchase a lemon, then one shouldn't be surprised with the resultant mess that will all but inevitably ensue.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2018, 06:28 PM »
What year did Festool start building the bad Kapexs?

This issue has been ongoing since the Kapex's release.  An interesting point, Festool offers a longer warranty for the Kapex in Canada, but not the US.

 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4680
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2018, 06:48 PM »
An interesting point, Festool offers a longer warranty for the Kapex in Canada, but not the US.

Canada 🇨🇦 = 5 years   [big grin]
USA 🇺🇸 = 3 years   [mad]

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2018, 07:05 PM »
I may be wrong but I think that the 5 year warranty in Canada is not on the entire tool - just the motor.  Unfortunately I didn't find anything on the Festool Canada website.  That might just be due to my hasty searching.

Peter

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 891
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2018, 06:19 AM »
I may be wrong but I think that the 5 year warranty in Canada is not on the entire tool - just the motor.  Unfortunately I didn't find anything on the Festool Canada website.  That might just be due to my hasty searching.
Havn't found anything also, would be interested in reading something official from Festool Canada about that.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 210
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2018, 08:02 AM »
What year did Festool start building the bad Kapexs?

My US spec Kapex has a build date of Sept 2009.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6617
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2018, 08:55 AM »
Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

According to the label on the photo: 120V.

I was asking @jmbfestool  since he is located in the UK

240volts
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4680
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2018, 09:39 AM »
I may be wrong but I think that the 5 year warranty in Canada is not on the entire tool - just the motor. 

You're probably right Peter, this is a cut & paste from the Canadian site:

FESTOOL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LAW ON WHICH THE CLAIM IS BASED. ALL WARRANTIES IMPLIED BY STATE LAW, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE HEREBY LIMITED TO THE DURATION OF THREE YEARS.

SOME STATES IN THE U.S. AND SOME CANADIAN PROVINCES DO NOT ALLOW EXCLUSIONS/LIMITATIONS OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES AND/OR LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY LASTS, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS, AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS THAT VARY FROM STATE TO STATE IN THE U.S. AND FROM PROVINCE TO PROVINCE IN CANADA.

With the exception of any warranties implied by state or province law as limited above, the foregoing limited warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, guarantees, agreements, and similar obligations of Festool. No agent, representative, distributor, dealer, or employee of Festool has the authority to increase or otherwise modify the obligations or limitations of this warranty.


Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 445
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2018, 10:50 AM »
With the exception of any warranties implied by state or province law as limited above, the foregoing limited warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, guarantees, agreements, and similar obligations of Festool. No agent, representative, distributor, dealer, or employee of Festool has the authority to increase or otherwise modify the obligations or limitations of this warranty.

Well… there is a online shop over here (in Europe) that offers (for free!) an extended warranty of five years. And they sell a lot of FS, I think.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

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Offline jobsworth

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Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2018, 12:31 PM »

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?
[/quote]

I dont know if he did or not but if he would of gone to festool first before posting here, Im sure they would of responded to him.
But once he posted on a public website, they will definately get defensive to protect the brand.

At least thats how I think this played out so far.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 513
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2018, 05:30 PM »
Previous examples of people posting their Festool problems on this Forum before they contacted Festool did not seem to suggest or result in any negative impact on the service they eventually received. On the contrary, I got the impression that they actually got faster service responses if they voiced their problems in public. My impression might not hold water under close examination, though.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 05:33 PM by ChuckM »

Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 489
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2018, 05:36 PM »
I agree it seems rather childish for a company to "punish" their customers because they posted a problem to a public forum instead of contacting them first.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

Offline DVA12

  • Posts: 2
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2018, 08:45 PM »
I have an Apex out of warranty. The swivel lever has worn to a point that the saw isn't safe to use.  I called Festool for an estimate to repair.  They would not commit to any cost of repair whatsoever.  OK then.  So I purchased a box for $20 to ship the saw back to them.
They told me they would assess the issue and give me an estimate over the phone.  If I chose not to have them repair, they will send the saw back disassembled.

I suspect this particular ailment has happened before.  So a little puzzled, I ordered the part.  I have learned a lot about this saw in the process of disassembling.  And have discovered an underused vocabulary.  Everything is working just fine except the blade guard does not want to retract completely. 

I would happily accept any assistance available.

Otherwise, I will continue to noodle about trying to find my mistake.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 134
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2018, 08:35 PM »

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?


I dont know if he did or not but if he would of gone to festool first before posting here, Im sure they would of responded to him.
But once he posted on a public website, they will definately get defensive to protect the brand.

At least thats how I think this played out so far.

Well, they are probably in a Jam.  If it's the wire size, they can't just change that without other issues such as no longer fitting in the existing design package, or having to give up power.  So basically they do a "fight club" style equation to figure out how to proceed.  If they keep selling, and the returns are low enough, they just carry on quietly until they can bring a new model, or discontinue Kapex in the NA market as a general life cycle explanation.   Folks won't accept if the "fix" is a performance reduction in the tool.  Nor is festool going to generate a fix/upgrade that cost them more than the original profit or cost them more than the negatives from this issue.  Especially since soon as you have an "improvement" fix, everyone starts sending theirs in the get the improvement.

Like all product failure issues from any company, no one outside the company will ever know the scope of the issue.  Things always look worse because people run to the internet to talk about their purchase failing.  Things always look vastly worse than they are.  Doesn't help those who have had a failure, but it is the nature of things.

More than likely Festool is not working on any kind of upgrade style fix.  Instead they are working on the next generation Kapex that will be designed to make sure this doesn't happen.  They will get it to market and let this issue fade out.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 891
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2018, 02:37 AM »
Festool lives from trust into their brand, this allows them to charge premium. As everyone else they need an influx of fresh customers to replace the ones that die of natural causes. Poisoning the perceived quality of their brand (both on the 'net and mouth to mouth) is diametral to attracting new customers.

Offline Corey P.

  • Posts: 16
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2018, 05:25 PM »
I had contacted Festool regarding the warranty, and received the normal corporate response letter, which was expected.  I had asked about the 5 year warranty in Canada, and I was informed that was not the case.  Same 3 year warranty as the rest of the world. 

Offline DVA12

  • Posts: 2
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2018, 08:06 AM »
I posted a question the other day. Cannot find it.  Anyway, I figured out the issue, bought the part and fixed the Kapex myself.  I don't think I will continue to purchase Festool products with a service department such as theirs. This was a pretty expensive saw compared to the rest of the marketplace.  Loyalty to customers is just as important as loyalty to brand.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2018, 08:25 AM »
I posted a question the other day. Cannot find it.  Anyway, I figured out the issue, bought the part and fixed the Kapex myself.  I don't think I will continue to purchase Festool products with a service department such as theirs. This was a pretty expensive saw compared to the rest of the marketplace.  Loyalty to customers is just as important as loyalty to brand.

Your question is a little earlier in this thread.  Giving estimates for a repair over the phone without even seeing the tool is pretty risky.  Receiving a tool that isn't working properly from a customer, taking it apart to diagnose the exact issue, then reassembling and sending it back to the customer un-repaired is a liability issue and risk management comes into play.

Peter




Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 513
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2018, 10:58 AM »
I have come across two types of service models. My car dealership charges me for diagnosing a problem and then charges separately for repairs (if approved by me). The diagnostic fee includes putting things back to their original configurations.

On furnace company I deal with also charges me for diagnosis, but will apply that fee towards the final repair bill as an offset if I approve the repair service. After paying the diagnostic fee (and they will put everything back together if I decide not to approve the repair), I am free to find someone else to fix the problem as identified by them.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 11:06 AM by ChuckM »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 513
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2018, 11:03 AM »
Receiving a tool that isn't working properly from a customer, taking it apart to diagnose the exact issue, then reassembling and sending it back to the customer un-repaired is a liability issue and risk management comes into play.

Peter

Shouldn't that risk part be easily dealt with by some standard clause of disclaimer that must be accepted by a customer before his or her tool is looked at?

I may be wrong, but I think my car dealership also has provisions that say if my car is considered unsafe to drive, the disassembled parts will not be installed, and I would need a towing service to get my car to where I want.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1143
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2018, 11:45 AM »
I had contacted Festool regarding the warranty, and received the normal corporate response letter, which was expected.  I had asked about the 5 year warranty in Canada, and I was informed that was not the case.  Same 3 year warranty as the rest of the world.

You probably need to be more specific in asking the question.  My understanding from reading posts on the FOG is the saw does have the same 3 year warranty in Canada, but the motor is covered for 5 years.  That's not part of Festool's all inclusive warranty policy, it's a separate legal requirement in Canada I believe, so they may have parrotted the Festool policy without adding that additional tidbit. 
-Raj

Offline Gunder

  • Posts: 12
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2018, 03:15 PM »
Well, turns out my saw was a year outside of warranty. (My dad had it longer then I thought before me.  So $75.44 for an out of warranty repair with shipping is reasonable and they didnt charge me for the motor parts, so thats good.


I still think its ridiculous that a $1500 saw burned up with only light use after 4 years when the Chinese harbor freight chop saw I bought 6 years ago for only $100 is still going strong...

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 413
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2018, 05:37 PM »
so does everybody get this deal ? [popcorn]