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Author Topic: What happened to my kapex?  (Read 7550 times)

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Offline Gunder

  • Posts: 13
What happened to my kapex?
« on: July 23, 2018, 10:52 PM »
Was cutting a cedar 2x4 today to make a platform to install a new latch on my fence gate and half way through the first board the Saw starts smoking! Looked like a blue flame inside the vents as well.

Pretty disappointed as the saw is only a few years old and for the price it should last a lifetime! Especially since I’m just a hobbiest.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 11:05 PM by Gunder »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 11:23 PM »
Holy Smoke! [scared]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 166
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 11:52 PM »
Put a mason jar over the smoke to capture it, later you can use a compresser to inject the magic smoke back into the saw.

Sorry for your loss.  Is this 120 or 240V model?


Offline Christopher Fitch

  • Posts: 71
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2018, 12:05 AM »
Wow....

Offline Gunder

  • Posts: 13
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2018, 12:10 AM »
Put a mason jar over the smoke to capture it, later you can use a compresser to inject the magic smoke back into the saw.

Sorry for your loss.  Is this 120 or 240V model?

I’m in the states so 120v

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5699
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2018, 12:33 AM »
Sorry for your loss.  Is this 120 or 240V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

Another one bites the dust. But move along, nothing to see here.

To OP: this is a very well known issue with the 120v Kapex in the States. Yet Festool seems happy to ingore it.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 986
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2018, 11:32 AM »
Festool should man up and, for this kapex specific fault, replace the failed parts for free regardless the age of the tool - with an upgraded version that won't have the same problem shortly after.

They're destroying their reputation with trying to ignore this.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 166
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2018, 08:40 PM »
Sorry for your loss.  Is this 120 or 240V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?


Cross i's. dot t's.  there is always the first.

Natural Selection will kick in over time, eventually all the bad Kapex's will go to the great workshop in the sky, and those that remain will be fine.   Festool can make the classic case of Survivor Bias and everything is solved.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 986
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2018, 10:08 AM »
Natural Selection will kick in over time, eventually all the bad Kapex's will go to the great workshop in the sky, and those that remain will be fine.   Festool can make the classic case of Survivor Bias and everything is solved.
This stance would make sense in case the repaired ones would hold up, which according to this forum they don't seem to do.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 611
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2018, 10:14 AM »
It is really unfortunate that so many people are getting stuck with bad Kapex's. More troubling is those who don't read about nor believe the failures and think "It won't happen to me". I always click on the emails from Festool listing refurbed Kapex's and they also sell it. 

I'll add that there is no reason to keep posting about the failures as no one is reading them anyway. This Kapex failures and people continuing to buy them reminds of a new neighbor who would not listen. I live in a flood zone and have been flooded and know when action has to be taken. Sometimes it is unnecessary, but I don't want to lose my cars to flood water so I move them to higher ground like every other sane person, less the tourists who generally don't care or don't believe it will happen.

Shortly after his family moved in we had a minor minor hurricane roll by. The sound (bay) water was pushed westerly up the rivers and there were fish lying in the muck. I, as did several neighbors, warned him repeatedly to the point of his being annoyed, that when the water returned we would most likely be flooded. As expected it did and flooded every yard and some houses (all are elevated, some higher than others). The water level made it into his F-150 at about seat level and the cars were all but completely underwater until the water receded.

Thinking he might listen to reason at this point I warned him the vehicles were totaled and not safe to drive. He ignored my advice again, drove the gas station and filled up. While doing so the driver side airbag exploded. The lesson is that you cannot help people who are ignorant or who think they are smarter than you or who are know-it-alls so there is no need to waste your time.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 10:40 AM by JimH2 »

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 382
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2018, 10:29 AM »
My 18 year old Bosch looks better and better every day.  Sorry for your loss.  I had been wanting to trade up to a Kapex, but after the many many failures reported here over the last few years, that will never happen.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4960
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2018, 10:40 AM »
Wow...that's a pretty dramatic photo.  [not worthy] That photo doesn't even need a caption.

Is the smoking Kapex still under warranty?


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2018, 11:27 AM »
Anyone think this smokey photo could be worth some money?

The OP could be getting a call from a mitre saw manufacturer for a photo buy-out right...to be used in an ad.

Offline dallas8338

  • Posts: 12
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2018, 11:45 AM »
The photo is a little blurry but the date on the saw looks like it says 6/16- should still be under warranty.

A little discerning that the newer manufactured units still have this issue.

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3522
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2018, 12:32 PM »
Was cutting a cedar 2x4 today to make a platform to install a new latch on my fence gate and half way through the first board the Saw starts smoking!

Sorry to hear! I would be ticked. Curious if you had this plugged into a vacuum or directly into the wall?

Send it to Festool. They will fix it, hopefully it's still under warranty.
Tim

Offline kdzito

  • Posts: 322
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 02:15 PM »
This is exactly why I parted with mine.  I was dreading of seeing something happen like this.  And tired of worrying about babying the saw.  I put it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit as a precaution and even with that I couldn't bear wondering if this was enough to keep it from damaging the motor.  So the anxiety of owning this saw got to me; therefore I sold the Krapex and went back to using my teenage DeWalt. 
Building one day at a time.

Offline kdzito

  • Posts: 322
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2018, 02:19 PM »
You know the smoking Kapex picture might make a great avatar!!! [scared]
Building one day at a time.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 11533
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2018, 03:32 PM »
@Gunder,

Hopefully by this time you have been in contact with Festool regarding your saw.  Sorry to hear about your saw.

Peter

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 611
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2018, 04:14 PM »
Was cutting a cedar 2x4 today to make a platform to install a new latch on my fence gate and half way through the first board the Saw starts smoking!

Sorry to hear! I would be ticked. Curious if you had this plugged into a vacuum or directly into the wall?

Send it to Festool. They will fix it, hopefully it's still under warranty.
Tim

How it was powered (direct to wall, through vacuum, 15-amp, 20-amp etc) for this cut or series of cuts or any cuts for that matter is meaningless. Motors have tolerances built into them to allow for power fluctuations. Considering the material was cedar the saw should have buzzed through it like a stick of butter. There is no need to keep perpetuating the belief that it must be power related.

Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 190
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2018, 07:57 PM »
I bought 2 Kapex 3 yrs apart and both units looked like that smoky picture at one point.
I think that is the pic that should be on the side of the box on all Kapex. When Festool USA finally admits that the saw is/was awfully designed and offers a substantial rebate to previous owners, as well or an  announcement of a redesign with a discount to previous owners, I will continue to discourage others from buying this tool. I have spent perhaps $12K on Festool over the years, and I am the first person I know to buy anything from Festool. Good job on many, many other things!

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2018, 08:35 PM »
Even though I have been a very happy owner of my Kapex (for just over three years and mostly for light work) and the saw is allegedly still under warranty (5 yrs for Canada), I would not knowingly recommend this saw if my opinion is sought. I would not have bought this saw myself if I had been a member of this Forum back then, knowing the story about this saw. It is the most expensive Festool machine I have bought, but the least assuring one in terms of confidence about its life span.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2018, 08:19 AM »
Sorry for your loss.  Is this 120 or 240V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?


Cross i's. dot t's.  there is always the first.

Natural Selection will kick in over time, eventually all the bad Kapex's will go to the great workshop in the sky, and those that remain will be fine.   Festool can make the classic case of Survivor Bias and everything is solved.

Like Gregor said this would only work if the repaired ones lasted but they don’t,  mine burnt out twice both 3 years apart. 

Reading others and with my experience the average life span of a professionally used kapex would be 3-4years which is pretty poor
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Offline duburban

  • Posts: 954
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2018, 09:25 AM »
Was cutting a cedar 2x4 today to make a platform to install a new latch on my fence gate and half way through the first board the Saw starts smoking!

Sorry to hear! I would be ticked. Curious if you had this plugged into a vacuum or directly into the wall?

Send it to Festool. They will fix it, hopefully it's still under warranty.
Tim

How it was powered (direct to wall, through vacuum, 15-amp, 20-amp etc) for this cut or series of cuts or any cuts for that matter is meaningless. Motors have tolerances built into them to allow for power fluctuations. Considering the material was cedar the saw should have buzzed through it like a stick of butter. There is no need to keep perpetuating the belief that it must be power related.

Yes!  I loathe the "how clean/dirty is your power supply" garbage
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 954
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2018, 09:47 AM »
kapex just came up on the recon, i think theyre messing with us
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Gunder

  • Posts: 13
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2018, 02:41 PM »

Sorry to hear! I would be ticked. Curious if you had this plugged into a vacuum or directly into the wall?

Send it to Festool. They will fix it, hopefully it's still under warranty.
Tim

How it was powered (direct to wall, through vacuum, 15-amp, 20-amp etc) for this cut or series of cuts or any cuts for that matter is meaningless. Motors have tolerances built into them to allow for power fluctuations. Considering the material was cedar the saw should have buzzed through it like a stick of butter. There is no need to keep perpetuating the belief that it must be power related.

It lived its entire "short" life on a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

Well they at least provided me with a ups label to send it in.. So thats a good sign so far. darn box to ship it cost $65 at the ups store tho...  Had I known this issue was so prevalent I would not have bought the kapex.  All of my other festools have been amazing so far, and I love how the Kapex performed when it operated.  I travel a lot for work, so when I am home I only have a limited amount of time for woodworking / projects thus is why I always try to buy the best tools available as I dont have patience for tools not performing when I need them too.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 611
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2018, 04:54 PM »
kapex just came up on the recon, i think theyre messing with us

...and it was gone in an instant. Plenty of suckers out there still.

Offline Corey P.

  • Posts: 16
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2018, 05:58 PM »
Man, this is so disheartening.  Being that I'm in my 3rd week of my new Kapex, this is really, really getting me anxious.  Do I take the chance and keep the saw? 

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2018, 06:45 PM »
Really hard to say . . . I am keeping mine because it is a little over three years old, not three weeks. ::)

I do think using the saw by itself on a 20A outlet won't change the fate of my saw (or motor), but I am doing it just to make myself feel better. The cuts are just unmatched by any compound mitre saws I have used, in addition to its dust collection superiority. My previous three-way mitre project would not have been possible without this saw (and the DF500).

« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 10:33 PM by ChuckM »

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5242
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2018, 10:57 AM »
Ive had mine for about 7-8 years and its been used on 2 continents using a transformer to run it for 4 years and havent had a problem...yet

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1226
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2018, 11:27 AM »
Man, this is so disheartening.  Being that I'm in my 3rd week of my new Kapex, this is really, really getting me anxious.  Do I take the chance and keep the saw?

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?
-Raj

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Joe Felchlin

  • Posts: 138
  • Just another day in paradise - Livin’ the dream!
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2018, 12:15 PM »
Hey Jobsworth:
I hear ya, Man.
From reading the FOG - Day to day - Week to week - Month to month - I’m not sure -
But there seems to be a “pattern” with these Festool failures/problems.
1.
The failures/problems appear to be with the more popular/“larger” Festool products...
Kapex... TS 55... Domino Joiners... Dust Extractors...
The “smaller” Festool products - Drills and Sanders - Seldom seem to have problems.
2.
Not ALL of these particular more popular/“larger” Festool products are having failures/problems.
But, the number appears to be large enough to warrant frustrations/misgivings about past and future Festool purchases.
3.
The failures/problems seem to be with the “sold when brand new” tools.
There seldom are many postings about Recon products having failures/problems.
4.
Lastly - And to your point Jobsworth - The failures/problems posted - Seem to be about these popular/“larger” Festool products - Manufactured during the last few years.
Like your 7-8 year old Kapex -
NONE of my “OLDER” manufactured Festool products - Have had any failures/problems.
(My Domino XL DF700EQ - Bought in FEB 2016 - Was a “disaster”. Festool finally replaced it with a new one - Calibrated by Festool Service before shipping it to me.)

I’m not sure if my FOG readings/analysis is totally “right on”. But...
It makes ya wonder: What’s changed at Festool the last few years?

I do know this: I love my Festool tools/products. I wouldn’t sell ‘em or trade ‘em.
And I’ll buy tools off the Recon posts. I do it believing that they’ve been “checked out”.
(I’ve bought a couple the last few months.)
Festool can keep ignoring the situation - And “denying” they have a problem.
But, I won’t be buying any of Festool’s “larger” NEWLY MANUFACTURED products -
Until I stop seeing failures/problems about ‘em on the FOG.

Bet I’m not alone. [unsure]
« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 04:43 PM by Joe Felchlin »
FESTOOL: CT26 and CT33 E HEPA Dust Extractors, MFT 1080, MFT-3, TS 55 REQ-F-Plus USA, TS75 EQ, Guide Rails: 1080's/1400/3000mm, LR 32-SYS/Holey Rail, Parallel Guides and Extensions, OF1400 EQ Plunge Router, OF1010 EQ Plunge Router, HL 850 Planer, RO125 FEQ Rotex Sander, LS 130 EQ Linear Detail Sander, DX93E Detail Sander, C12 Cordless Drill, CXS Cordless Compact Drill Driver, SYS-Centrotec-Set, Domino XL DF 700 EQ Plus Tenon Joiner Set, Domino DF 500 Tenon Joiner | WOODPECKERS: DF 500 Offset Base System | BOSCH: 5412L Compound Miter Saw, 4100-09 10-Inch Table Saw | POWERMATIC: 60HH 8" Jointer, PWBS 14" Bandsaw w/Riser Block | MAKITA: 2012NB Bench Top Planer | JESSEM: Mast-R-Lift XL/Fence/Slide, Rout-R-Plate/Table Stand | RIKON: 50-120 6inX48in Belt-Disc Sander | JET: JBOS-5 Benchtop Oscillating Spindle Sander | PORTER CABLE: 7518 and 690LVRS Routers, 557 Pro Plate Joiner, 16/18/23 Gauge Nailers | LEIGH JIGS: D4R 24 Pro Dovetail Jig, FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig | LIE-NIELSEN: Almost every hand plane | DOWELMAX: 3/8" and 1/4" | KREG: K3 Master System | FEIN: Multimaster FMM 250 Q Kit | TORMEK: Super-Grind 2000 | DUST DEPUTY: Industrial (ALL) Steel Deluxe Cyclone (2)

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 351
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2018, 01:06 PM »

Like Gregor said this would only work if the repaired ones lasted but they don’t,  mine burnt out twice both 3 years apart. 

Reading others and with my experience the average life span of a professionally used kapex would be 3-4years which is pretty poor

Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?
Vijay Kumar

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 986
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2018, 02:49 PM »

Like Gregor said this would only work if the repaired ones lasted but they don’t,  mine burnt out twice both 3 years apart. 

Reading others and with my experience the average life span of a professionally used kapex would be 3-4years which is pretty poor

Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

According to the label on the photo: 120V.

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1018
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2018, 03:32 PM »
What year did Festool start building the bad Kapexs?

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 351
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2018, 03:50 PM »
Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

According to the label on the photo: 120V.

I was asking @jmbfestool  since he is located in the UK
Vijay Kumar

Offline Corey P.

  • Posts: 16
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2018, 06:03 PM »
Man, this is so disheartening.  Being that I'm in my 3rd week of my new Kapex, this is really, really getting me anxious.  Do I take the chance and keep the saw?

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?

Yeah, that's the bad part for sure.  I'm going to reach out to them and see if they'll offer an extended warranty passed the 3 years.  If they believe in their products, they should stand behind them.  I'm sure others have tried as well, but I'll at least see what they say and voice my concern. 

And, OP, I was of course not rubbing in the fact that your machine was 3 years old, I was only asking since I'm still under my 30 day period, and would like as many opinions as possible.  For the price of the machine, I expect quality and longevity.  If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely want to help someone out if they were within their return period.  Any advice either way is appreciated. 

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 288
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2018, 06:14 PM »
I feel sorry for you regarding your expensive mistake.  I also feel a bit aggrieved that so many of your peers are similarly affected too.  It's down to the company, I believe, to do the right thing:  remove these duds immediately from sale & offer unfortunate purchasers full refunds.

The company has clearly had sufficient time to increase the diameter of the windings within the motor to handle the doubled (low voltage) current, but have chosen not to.  Likewise, consumers have had more than adequate time to either choose an alternative, more robust & reliable product or divest themselves of their erroneous purchase.

Those that continue to purchase this clearly inadequate low-voltage version of this palpably faulty product should however accept responsibility for their own mistake/s.  Just as somebody who purchases property in a bushfire/flood/landslide/earthquake/cyclone prone environment, or seafront property at risk of erosion post 1970 (when the effects of global warming/CO2/Methane atmospheric increase became well publicised) must likewise shoulder responsibility for their poor decision making.

Given that the problem of the Kapex field coil windings' inability to handle normal household levels of 110v current has been well publicised for at least the past 3 years, and possibly much longer, it's perhaps a mite disingenuous to expect the company to warrant their faulty product beyond the statutory 3 year period.

The company is allowed, perhaps even justified, in selling dud merchandise, provided warranty protection extends to the publicised 3 year period.  The Caveat Emptor clause nevertheless applies to those foolish enough to ignore the ample warnings published by others.  If you knowingly purchase a lemon, then one shouldn't be surprised with the resultant mess that will all but inevitably ensue.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2018, 06:28 PM »
What year did Festool start building the bad Kapexs?

This issue has been ongoing since the Kapex's release.  An interesting point, Festool offers a longer warranty for the Kapex in Canada, but not the US.

 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4960
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2018, 06:48 PM »
An interesting point, Festool offers a longer warranty for the Kapex in Canada, but not the US.

Canada 🇨🇦 = 5 years   [big grin]
USA 🇺🇸 = 3 years   [mad]

Offline Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 11533
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2018, 07:05 PM »
I may be wrong but I think that the 5 year warranty in Canada is not on the entire tool - just the motor.  Unfortunately I didn't find anything on the Festool Canada website.  That might just be due to my hasty searching.

Peter

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 986
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2018, 06:19 AM »
I may be wrong but I think that the 5 year warranty in Canada is not on the entire tool - just the motor.  Unfortunately I didn't find anything on the Festool Canada website.  That might just be due to my hasty searching.
Havn't found anything also, would be interested in reading something official from Festool Canada about that.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 224
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2018, 08:02 AM »
What year did Festool start building the bad Kapexs?

My US spec Kapex has a build date of Sept 2009.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2018, 08:55 AM »
Was your a 110 V model or the 230 V model?

ROFL, you even need to ask?

According to the label on the photo: 120V.

I was asking @jmbfestool  since he is located in the UK

240volts
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4960
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2018, 09:39 AM »
I may be wrong but I think that the 5 year warranty in Canada is not on the entire tool - just the motor. 

You're probably right Peter, this is a cut & paste from the Canadian site:

FESTOOL SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LAW ON WHICH THE CLAIM IS BASED. ALL WARRANTIES IMPLIED BY STATE LAW, INCLUDING THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE HEREBY LIMITED TO THE DURATION OF THREE YEARS.

SOME STATES IN THE U.S. AND SOME CANADIAN PROVINCES DO NOT ALLOW EXCLUSIONS/LIMITATIONS OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES AND/OR LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY LASTS, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS, AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS THAT VARY FROM STATE TO STATE IN THE U.S. AND FROM PROVINCE TO PROVINCE IN CANADA.

With the exception of any warranties implied by state or province law as limited above, the foregoing limited warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, guarantees, agreements, and similar obligations of Festool. No agent, representative, distributor, dealer, or employee of Festool has the authority to increase or otherwise modify the obligations or limitations of this warranty.


Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 462
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2018, 10:50 AM »
With the exception of any warranties implied by state or province law as limited above, the foregoing limited warranty is exclusive and in lieu of all other warranties, guarantees, agreements, and similar obligations of Festool. No agent, representative, distributor, dealer, or employee of Festool has the authority to increase or otherwise modify the obligations or limitations of this warranty.

Well… there is a online shop over here (in Europe) that offers (for free!) an extended warranty of five years. And they sell a lot of FS, I think.
Cheers, Bert Vanderveen

TS55 · TS55R · OF1010 · DF500 Mk2 · MFT/3 + VL + CMS TS55 + CMS PS300 + LA-CS 70/CMS · CTL Midi · RTS400 EQ · 2 x CXS Li 1,5 · T15+3 Li 4,2 · TI15 Impact Li 4,2 · Centrotec Sets 2008 + 2015 · PSB300 · LR32-SYS · RO150 · Kapex KS120 · 2 x MFK700 · RO90 · OFK700 · BS75 · OFK500 · OF2200 · CMS-GE … | Mirka 1230L P&C | Hammer A3 31 Silent Power · Hammer N4400 

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5242
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2018, 12:31 PM »

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?
[/quote]

I dont know if he did or not but if he would of gone to festool first before posting here, Im sure they would of responded to him.
But once he posted on a public website, they will definately get defensive to protect the brand.

At least thats how I think this played out so far.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2018, 05:30 PM »
Previous examples of people posting their Festool problems on this Forum before they contacted Festool did not seem to suggest or result in any negative impact on the service they eventually received. On the contrary, I got the impression that they actually got faster service responses if they voiced their problems in public. My impression might not hold water under close examination, though.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 05:33 PM by ChuckM »

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 631
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2018, 05:36 PM »
I agree it seems rather childish for a company to "punish" their customers because they posted a problem to a public forum instead of contacting them first.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline DVA12

  • Posts: 2
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2018, 08:45 PM »
I have an Apex out of warranty. The swivel lever has worn to a point that the saw isn't safe to use.  I called Festool for an estimate to repair.  They would not commit to any cost of repair whatsoever.  OK then.  So I purchased a box for $20 to ship the saw back to them.
They told me they would assess the issue and give me an estimate over the phone.  If I chose not to have them repair, they will send the saw back disassembled.

I suspect this particular ailment has happened before.  So a little puzzled, I ordered the part.  I have learned a lot about this saw in the process of disassembling.  And have discovered an underused vocabulary.  Everything is working just fine except the blade guard does not want to retract completely. 

I would happily accept any assistance available.

Otherwise, I will continue to noodle about trying to find my mistake.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 166
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2018, 08:35 PM »

Without a peep from Festool, it's hard to justify even with the warranty.  This is a tool whose life should be measured in decades.  The only justification for keeping it is if it helps you do something no other saw will do and that abililty is worth the price of admission.  That's something you have to weigh.  And even then, if it's out of commission, what impact does that have on you?  If you potentially have to lug around (or keep) a back up saw, maybe it's not worth the hassle?


I dont know if he did or not but if he would of gone to festool first before posting here, Im sure they would of responded to him.
But once he posted on a public website, they will definately get defensive to protect the brand.

At least thats how I think this played out so far.

Well, they are probably in a Jam.  If it's the wire size, they can't just change that without other issues such as no longer fitting in the existing design package, or having to give up power.  So basically they do a "fight club" style equation to figure out how to proceed.  If they keep selling, and the returns are low enough, they just carry on quietly until they can bring a new model, or discontinue Kapex in the NA market as a general life cycle explanation.   Folks won't accept if the "fix" is a performance reduction in the tool.  Nor is festool going to generate a fix/upgrade that cost them more than the original profit or cost them more than the negatives from this issue.  Especially since soon as you have an "improvement" fix, everyone starts sending theirs in the get the improvement.

Like all product failure issues from any company, no one outside the company will ever know the scope of the issue.  Things always look worse because people run to the internet to talk about their purchase failing.  Things always look vastly worse than they are.  Doesn't help those who have had a failure, but it is the nature of things.

More than likely Festool is not working on any kind of upgrade style fix.  Instead they are working on the next generation Kapex that will be designed to make sure this doesn't happen.  They will get it to market and let this issue fade out.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 986
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2018, 02:37 AM »
Festool lives from trust into their brand, this allows them to charge premium. As everyone else they need an influx of fresh customers to replace the ones that die of natural causes. Poisoning the perceived quality of their brand (both on the 'net and mouth to mouth) is diametral to attracting new customers.

Offline Corey P.

  • Posts: 16
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #52 on: July 30, 2018, 05:25 PM »
I had contacted Festool regarding the warranty, and received the normal corporate response letter, which was expected.  I had asked about the 5 year warranty in Canada, and I was informed that was not the case.  Same 3 year warranty as the rest of the world. 

Offline DVA12

  • Posts: 2
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2018, 08:06 AM »
I posted a question the other day. Cannot find it.  Anyway, I figured out the issue, bought the part and fixed the Kapex myself.  I don't think I will continue to purchase Festool products with a service department such as theirs. This was a pretty expensive saw compared to the rest of the marketplace.  Loyalty to customers is just as important as loyalty to brand.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 11533
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2018, 08:25 AM »
I posted a question the other day. Cannot find it.  Anyway, I figured out the issue, bought the part and fixed the Kapex myself.  I don't think I will continue to purchase Festool products with a service department such as theirs. This was a pretty expensive saw compared to the rest of the marketplace.  Loyalty to customers is just as important as loyalty to brand.

Your question is a little earlier in this thread.  Giving estimates for a repair over the phone without even seeing the tool is pretty risky.  Receiving a tool that isn't working properly from a customer, taking it apart to diagnose the exact issue, then reassembling and sending it back to the customer un-repaired is a liability issue and risk management comes into play.

Peter




Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2018, 10:58 AM »
I have come across two types of service models. My car dealership charges me for diagnosing a problem and then charges separately for repairs (if approved by me). The diagnostic fee includes putting things back to their original configurations.

On furnace company I deal with also charges me for diagnosis, but will apply that fee towards the final repair bill as an offset if I approve the repair service. After paying the diagnostic fee (and they will put everything back together if I decide not to approve the repair), I am free to find someone else to fix the problem as identified by them.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 11:06 AM by ChuckM »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2018, 11:03 AM »
Receiving a tool that isn't working properly from a customer, taking it apart to diagnose the exact issue, then reassembling and sending it back to the customer un-repaired is a liability issue and risk management comes into play.

Peter

Shouldn't that risk part be easily dealt with by some standard clause of disclaimer that must be accepted by a customer before his or her tool is looked at?

I may be wrong, but I think my car dealership also has provisions that say if my car is considered unsafe to drive, the disassembled parts will not be installed, and I would need a towing service to get my car to where I want.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1226
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2018, 11:45 AM »
I had contacted Festool regarding the warranty, and received the normal corporate response letter, which was expected.  I had asked about the 5 year warranty in Canada, and I was informed that was not the case.  Same 3 year warranty as the rest of the world.

You probably need to be more specific in asking the question.  My understanding from reading posts on the FOG is the saw does have the same 3 year warranty in Canada, but the motor is covered for 5 years.  That's not part of Festool's all inclusive warranty policy, it's a separate legal requirement in Canada I believe, so they may have parrotted the Festool policy without adding that additional tidbit. 
-Raj

Offline Gunder

  • Posts: 13
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2018, 03:15 PM »
Well, turns out my saw was a year outside of warranty. (My dad had it longer then I thought before me.  So $75.44 for an out of warranty repair with shipping is reasonable and they didnt charge me for the motor parts, so thats good.


I still think its ridiculous that a $1500 saw burned up with only light use after 4 years when the Chinese harbor freight chop saw I bought 6 years ago for only $100 is still going strong...

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 430
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2018, 05:37 PM »
so does everybody get this deal ? [popcorn]

Offline eeeesh

  • Posts: 13
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2018, 09:36 PM »
WOW

This is the first time that I have seen Festool cover the repairs of an out of warranty Kapex! 

Did something change, or is the OP just 'special'?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline alice

  • Posts: 76
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2018, 09:43 AM »
The motor on the kapex has a warranty of 5 years in Canada and I was lucky enough for them to pay for shipping both ways.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4960
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2018, 11:15 AM »
The motor on the kapex has a warranty of 5 years in Canada and I was lucky enough for them to pay for shipping both ways.

Good for you...that's the way it should be with the Kapex.  [smile]

Curious if they gave you a list of the motor parts they replaced?

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 449
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2018, 02:28 PM »
So,
Does one have to reside in Canada to get the longer warranty ?
How about a US person going to Canada and buying ?
What about a Canadian online place ,sent to the USA?
This has me curious .
Thanks,Charlie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 619
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2018, 03:01 PM »
I suspect if a Kapex is not returned via a Canadian vendor or from a Canadian location for repairs, it would not enjoy the 5-year motor warranty. Actually, I have not seen any black & white on this extra motor warranty thing (allegedly due to some Canadian consumer protection laws). If a Kapex is bought in Canada but moved to the US, would it still be able to enjoy any Canadian legal protection?

Offline alice

  • Posts: 76
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2018, 04:32 PM »
Yes their was a list of parts. Won’t be able to post till next week on holidays

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4960
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2018, 05:26 PM »
Yes their was a list of parts. Won’t be able to post till next week on holidays

Thanks for that. I’m interested in what goes toes-up on the Kapex. Enjoy the time off.  [big grin]

Offline alice

  • Posts: 76
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #67 on: August 06, 2018, 09:06 AM »
Here’s the list of parts replaced on my kapex

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 611
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #68 on: August 06, 2018, 10:18 AM »
So,
Does one have to reside in Canada to get the longer warranty ?
How about a US person going to Canada and buying ?
What about a Canadian online place ,sent to the USA?
This has me curious .
Thanks,Charlie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

You are up against a lot of other potential variables (expenses): import/export duties, USD versus Canadian dollar, registered address, etc. Probably not worth all of the hassle besides the fact that it is a shady plan.

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 288
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #69 on: August 06, 2018, 10:19 AM »
So does "shaft" means "armature" in Ameri-pidgin?  If so, then it could be either the commutator assembly (that the brushes bear against) or the revolving armature field coil/s that burned out.  It's usually the commutators that tend to go first in stalled universal motors.  Extreme current at or near stalling RPM or on startup places extreme current & torque loads through the brushes.  I've also experienced high-current (220V, 10A) proprietary German motors burning out their stator coils too from repeated high loads on long extension cables on a couple of occasions.

It's puzzling that no bearings were replaced in the process.  I would've considered it more the norm when replacing an armature in most universal motors, allowing the new rotational assembly to bed into new bearing surfaces.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline alice

  • Posts: 76
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2018, 10:51 AM »
Here’s the other paperwork it shows bearings

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 4960
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2018, 12:27 PM »
Here’s the list of parts replaced on my kapex

Thanks for posting...that list is interesting.

There are only 2 items on that list that are electrical in nature. The "End Shield" is an armature assembly with bearings and fan but WITHOUT field coils and the "Brush Holder".

The other 2 inexpensive items are for the bevel adjustment and the "Shaft" for $100 attaches the blade to the saw.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 12:29 PM by Cheese »

Offline Gunder

  • Posts: 13
Re: What happened to my kapex?
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2018, 01:01 AM »
Got the saw back today. Seems to be working great now... and they adjust the lasers two so they are more accurate then before. Quite happy with the repair service.