Author Topic: 1400 Router Pros and Cons  (Read 22734 times)

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 657
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2017, 08:58 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

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Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2017, 09:09 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.
He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 67
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2017, 10:54 PM »
Haha that thing with 230 should be called a shaper.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 657
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2017, 04:20 AM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.

He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.

OK, didn't realize that. I based my response on him saying he had narrowed his choices to include the PC7518. I must have missed where he said he needed 230v power.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 488
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2017, 05:18 AM »
I've got this setup (Of1400, CMS) and i'm happy with it. N.B. I'm a hobbyist with space constraints, and Incra is not widely available overhere. YMMV.
Just for today..

Offline Woodwork Wizard

  • Posts: 421
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2017, 07:03 AM »
The CMS router table is brilliant with an OF2200 in it. The collet rises just above the top for easy bit changes, dust extraction is better and there's a lot more power than the OF1400.

Having tried both the 1400 and the 2200 in the CMS it's pretty obvious the CMS router table module was designed primarily for the 2200. It's okay with the 1400, but it is so much better with a 2200 installed.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4481
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2017, 02:57 AM »
I'm with you Woodwork Wizard.

I got my 2200 in my CMS and it's awesome. Though when I return to the states suddenly I won't be able to.

I have a 1010 for basic hand reading using but I also hand hold and use the 2200 for larger bits. It's  amazing matching heavy but well balanced.

Though I did have to buy a 6mm collet so I could use 1/4 shank bits in it. I feel it should of came with it.
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 239
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2017, 07:47 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.

He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.

OK, didn't realize that. I based my response on him saying he had narrowed his choices to include the PC7518. I must have missed where he said he needed 230v power.

The Milwaukee 5625-20 is superior to the PC7518 and second fiddle to the OF2200 for Router Table use.  I’m not 100% if they make a 5625-20 in 230 V.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3970
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2017, 08:08 AM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 239
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2017, 09:38 AM »
The biggest change many would like to see to the 1400 is the ability to switch from the extended handle to a knob.  There’s some jigs where the long handle can get in the way. 

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1373
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2017, 10:31 AM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Well, there's this baby too:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-lo65ec-hand-router


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3592
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2017, 10:36 PM »
The Milwaukee 5625-20 is superior to the PC7518 and second fiddle to the OF2200 for Router Table use.  I’m not 100% if they make a 5625-20 in 230 V.

I have a 5625-20 in a router table and it’s a beast. A truly fantastic, powerful router, but it functions best in a router table because it does not have a plunge base and a plunge base is not available.

I’m not aware of a 5625-20 router being available in 230V.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 239
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2017, 03:24 AM »
The Milwaukee 5625-20 is superior to the PC7518 and second fiddle to the OF2200 for Router Table use.  I’m not 100% if they make a 5625-20 in 230 V.

I have a 5625-20 in a router table and it’s a beast. A truly fantastic, powerful router, but it functions best in a router table because it does not have a plunge base and a plunge base is not available.

I’m not aware of a 5625-20 router being available in 230V.

I never been able to figure out why Milwaukee won’t sell the 5625 as a motor only.  I think a lot people buy this router and toss the flat base in the recycle bin.  It runs circles around the Triton and the Porter Cable when use large panel bits in a router table. 

It’s the only motor I can think of that can give the OF 2200 a run for it’s money.

Makita and Milwaukee have the same problem.  They both build amazing motors but they forget to finish the rest of the machines. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3592
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2017, 03:38 AM »
It runs circles around the Triton and the Porter Cable when use large panel bits in a router table. 

It’s the only motor I can think of that can give the OF 2200 a run for it’s money.


I agree, if Milwaukee were to enhance the handling characteristics of this router, power wise it is very easily the equivalent of the 2200. Those big goofy side handles make it only suitable for router table table use. And then there's the dust collection issue...

I also have to admit that it'd be a shame to just hang a 2200 under a router table as the reasons for purchasing it would be diminished.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 03:54 AM by Cheese »

Offline amt

  • Posts: 362
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 10:29 AM »
Many will probably think I am crazy, but I have purchased a 4HP, 3-phase spindle motor and a 5HP VFD, plus the Jessem/Incra router lift for my router table.  I have not assembled it yet, but it should be the last in-table router I ever need.  Not cheap, but less expensive than the OF2200 (which I also have for hand held use).  Spindle is also water cooled, so I won't have that router air flow interference going on.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1373
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2017, 10:44 AM »
why didn't you just buy a shaper if you needed all that power ?

Offline amt

  • Posts: 362
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2017, 10:52 AM »
why didn't you just buy a shaper if you needed all that power ?

Shapers are (a) expensive (b) big (c) don't necessarily spin to high RPM.  The cost of my solution was slightly more than a standard router.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3970
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2017, 04:56 PM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Well, there's this baby too:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-lo65ec-hand-router

Clearly it is what I would likely be getting, but to take a contrarian stance...

The triton has a slick little depth adjuster that works from the business side of the machine.
So it also alleviates the need for a separate lift.

In a table application it makes some sense to me to compare the Triton with the Mafell.

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 55
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2017, 10:06 PM »
@amt Would you mind posting a link to the spindle motor and VFD you bought? Does it fit without shims? I have an Incra Master Lift II that I haven't put together yet and was thinking of going down the water cooled route, but the tolerances required to fit without shims gave me pause. Most spindles are 80mm, which Incra confirmed would not fit. And no, I don't need the power. Already have a Felder shaper. Just want to do it to see if it can be done.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 239
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2017, 10:15 AM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Well, there's this baby too:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-lo65ec-hand-router

Clearly it is what I would likely be getting, but to take a contrarian stance...

The triton has a slick little depth adjuster that works from the business side of the machine.
So it also alleviates the need for a separate lift.

In a table application it makes some sense to me to compare the Triton with the Mafell.

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1728
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2017, 12:47 PM »
At this point, can't add much, but I would agree that using an expensive router like the OF1400 or a Mafell in a table is kind of a waste of a great router. I would opt for (and did) for a router motor that is really just made for the table. I'm sure others can recommend motors just as good or better but, for me, the PC 7518 motor has worked well. It has a lot of power to do almost anything I'd want to do with it. So far, no problems with it although it seems others have had some.
Randy

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 103
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2017, 01:14 PM »
They sell the Porter Cable 75182 'motor only' for a reason.  It's basically the 'standard' for a router lift as is the Mast-R-Lift II.  If I was thinking of using any other router, I would buy one of the ones listed on Incra's Page (it wouldn't be a Festool)

http://www.incra.com/router_system_accessories-mast-r-lift-ii.html

Same thing if you like another lift - see what it is designed to fit

Offline amt

  • Posts: 362
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2017, 01:52 PM »
@amt Would you mind posting a link to the spindle motor and VFD you bought? Does it fit without shims? I have an Incra Master Lift II that I haven't put together yet and was thinking of going down the water cooled route, but the tolerances required to fit without shims gave me pause. Most spindles are 80mm, which Incra confirmed would not fit. And no, I don't need the power. Already have a Felder shaper. Just want to do it to see if it can be done.

@egmiii I have not finished mounting the pindle, but it looks like I will need to use ~1/8" shim.  I was just going to pick up some 1/8" aluminum bar stock and wrap it around the spindle.  If it's too thick, I'll mill it down a bit.  I believe my spindle is 100mm.  I got one off ebay, and it had the description of, "TOP 3KW WATER-COOLED MOTOR SPINDLE ENGRAVING MILL GRIND 220V CNC".

The VFD I got is from ENC, 5HP, designed specifically for 1 phase input.  PM me if you want more info, and I can put you in touch with the seller.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3970
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2017, 06:38 PM »

...

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Do you missed the numerous posts about the PC or the Trition as being good choices for a table?

Sometimes it is not about cost, but other factors.

Some reasons I would use to convince myself...
(I have an 8-mm router, and do not have a lot of "shop room".)

- a large router that can do both table and freehand work may not be optimal in terms of flow, but I would only need one. (The 2200 works in this space)

- For the occasional "shaper like use" the most powerful router would be the one likely to not stall.
- the LO65 is the most powerful

- the LO65 only one actually recommended for use with the Ligna timber tool.


Of course a few of us mentioned the PC and the Triton, for table use, as a pretty viable option.

Offended is not the right word, but being judged on how I may want to spend or "WASTE" my money, when I could have gotten some different cheaper tool... does not really go down well with me.

However; I am happy discussing the reasoning of why I may want one, and noodling out whether the reasoning is sound.

I am not sure using a 2600W router freehand is wise... So I am not sure that it "SHINES" there... But I am imagining the scenes out of the Shining.

If one only has room, or funding, for a single router... then the FT1400 does take the 1/2" bits, which are ubiquitous in the US. I cannot think of many good arguments to have a 1400 and then shove it into a table... Unless one was pulling it out often.
(But for some reason the less frills LO65, with the big block motor, seems like it makes sense.)

Luckily most of my current needs are satisfied with the 8-mm bits. But I have some doors coming up, and this thread parallels the same chin scratchings.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 239
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2017, 01:41 AM »

...

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Do you missed the numerous posts about the PC or the Trition as being good choices for a table?

Sometimes it is not about cost, but other factors.

Some reasons I would use to convince myself...
(I have an 8-mm router, and do not have a lot of "shop room".)

- a large router that can do both table and freehand work may not be optimal in terms of flow, but I would only need one. (The 2200 works in this space)

- For the occasional "shaper like use" the most powerful router would be the one likely to not stall.
- the LO65 is the most powerful

- the LO65 only one actually recommended for use with the Ligna timber tool.


Of course a few of us mentioned the PC and the Triton, for table use, as a pretty viable option.

Offended is not the right word, but being judged on how I may want to spend or "WASTE" my money, when I could have gotten some different cheaper tool... does not really go down well with me.

However; I am happy discussing the reasoning of why I may want one, and noodling out whether the reasoning is sound.

I am not sure using a 2600W router freehand is wise... So I am not sure that it "SHINES" there... But I am imagining the scenes out of the Shining.

If one only has room, or funding, for a single router... then the FT1400 does take the 1/2" bits, which are ubiquitous in the US. I cannot think of many good arguments to have a 1400 and then shove it into a table... Unless one was pulling it out often.
(But for some reason the less frills LO65, with the big block motor, seems like it makes sense.)

Luckily most of my current needs are satisfied with the 8-mm bits. But I have some doors coming up, and this thread parallels the same chin scratchings.

It wasn’t meant as an insult.  I was doing the math in my head for price of a Mafell or OF 2200 and a solid router table, you’re coming pretty close to the price of a decent quality Shaper.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1095
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2017, 10:25 PM »
This thread hits home for me.  I'm currently weighing my options. I had a full sized router table but got rid of it due to space considerations. I'm really leaning towards a CMS-VL and put my OF1400 in it.  For what I will use it for, the 1400 should have plenty of power. I thought about the Incra system but I had a Jointech for while and found I didn't need the positioner as I have a couple of Leigh jigs I can use which I presume would also work of the CMS. It's a lot of money to start with so I'm wondering if going whole hog and getting the set is worth it.  I don't build cabinet doors so I'm wondering what other applications the miter fence and the sliding table would be.  I really need the dust collection accessory tho.  I also think it would be a good thing to be able to fold up the table and store it out of the way when I'm not using it.  That's kinda hard to do with a traditional router table.  Has there been much buyer remorse for any of you who have either CMS?  I'm also going to get from Ebay a Trion CMS plate too so there's always that consideration.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 541
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2017, 04:42 AM »
I'm really leaning towards a CMS-VL and put my OF1400 in it.
I would suggest you go for a CMS-GE instead the -VL.
Reasoning:
+ can be used on its own
+ when folded down to store the plate can stay in (as it guarantees room for the mounted tool)
+ feed direction can bet setup freely in relation to the MFT, not only perpendicular like with the -VL
+ footprint when folded not that much worse than the -VL (which has longer legs)
+ not that much more expensive than the -VL
+ can also be attached easily to a MFT with a simple jig (out of two boards, top one with triangles glued on to go into the v-groves, held together with a screw) on all sides

Quote
Has there been much buyer remorse for any of you who have either CMS?
I have two CMS-GE (usually permanently setup with OF and TS 75 plates, unless I need the tools as handhelds), no real complaints after I got used to it.
Quote
I'm also going to get from Ebay a Trion CMS plate too so there's always that consideration.
Unless you need an inverted, fixed jigsaw on a regular basis (for whatever reason): most likely a bandsaw is more useful.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1095
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2017, 11:49 AM »
I wouldn't need to get the set then as I can use my MFT as an outfeed table when necessary. The only accessory I see really being mandatory is the dust collection hoses, etc.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 541
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2017, 01:10 PM »
I wouldn't need to get the set then as I can use my MFT as an outfeed table when necessary.
That's the thing with the CMS-VL: you can't use the MFT as outfeed, unless you have another one.