Author Topic: 1400 Router Pros and Cons  (Read 24027 times)

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Offline Shadow

  • Posts: 3
1400 Router Pros and Cons
« on: February 20, 2017, 07:25 AM »
Considering purchasing Festool 1400 Router and CMS Router Table and would appreciate any comments Pros or Cons.

Thanks,

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 169
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2017, 08:14 AM »
Try the FOGs search..., it is full of great testimonies and examples....one of the best !
And from all over the world...YouTube has countless visuals of the router in action as well....
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline RL

  • Posts: 3038
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2017, 08:18 AM »
There are loads of pros, but it's biggest con is its inability to take large diameter bits without a work-around. Also, the OF2200's base switching is much easier than the OF1400's with all the screws involved.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2017, 08:27 AM »
Considering purchasing Festool 1400 Router and CMS Router Table and would appreciate any comments Pros or Cons.

Thanks,

Pros: a good router for use outside of a router table.

Cons: you can get a PC router or a bunch of other routers with a lot more power... As well as a good lift like the Jessum for the same amount of money and have a better system for a exclusive table use.

You still may want the 1400 or a smaller router for hand held use, but for a table it is hard to beat raw power and a good lift.

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 835
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2017, 08:27 AM »
The pros are many, it's one of Festool's crown jewel tools. The only real shortcoming is the handle isn't to everyone's liking and some people  simply can't get used to it and revert to more traditional handled routers from other manufacturers.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1989
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2017, 08:36 AM »
I think it would be a waste to hide such a great tool under a router table when a simple PC motor will suffice in some great retail router tables. Unless you need the portability of the Festool router table, I just don't see the value.

I have all 3 Festool routers plus the little 700. The 1400 gets most of the usage.

I agree the 2200 is a better designed router, but it's a beast to handle. The 1010 is fun to use for light duty tasks, but its 1/4" shaft limitation is significant.
Birdhunter

Offline fignewton

  • Posts: 65
  • "Fine Quality Sawdust"
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2017, 09:15 AM »
It's the smoothest running router I've used (including PC, Triton, Craftsman).  The dust collection is superb.  And the LR32 system for doing shelf pin holes is amazing.
TS55, MFT3+, OF1400, C12, CT-26, LR-32 system, Domino 500, RO125, MFK 700, Carvex w/ accsy, Sys-roll,  CXS, Kapex, UG with extensions, RO90

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2349
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2017, 10:07 AM »
It is a good router with power, smooth, versatile, etc. The DC is its weakness...shroud only works with smaller bits and seems like an after thought. DC on 1010 and 2200 is much, much better and works with all bits each can hold.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2017, 04:41 PM »
It's the smoothest running router I've used (including PC, Triton, Craftsman).  The dust collection is superb.  And the LR32 system for doing shelf pin holes is amazing.

How does one use the LR32 with the router in a router table?
There is nothing amazing

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2017, 09:24 PM »
I dont see any cons. Its a great machine.

On the other hand i am not very frugal nor am i practical.

If we are taking performance and overall design its a ten..

If we are talking overall value well most all Festools dont much fit that criteria. Sure some more than others like my new Domino. Being Festool is the only one to make such a tool and the increase in productivity its unique or well not so unique but well improved design over a traditional biscuit machine its a exceptional value.

My oppinion is if you want the 1400 just purchase it. If you dint really have your heart set on the 1400 specifically most any rounter will probably make you happy.

 




Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline fignewton

  • Posts: 65
  • "Fine Quality Sawdust"
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 12:23 PM »
It's the smoothest running router I've used (including PC, Triton, Craftsman).  The dust collection is superb.  And the LR32 system for doing shelf pin holes is amazing.

How does one use the LR32 with the router in a router table?
There is nothing amazing

since the LR32 depends on the holey rail, you obviously can't use it on a router table.  And compared to every other way I've tried to layout and drill shelf pins with other jigs for the past 20 years, it was amazing to me.
TS55, MFT3+, OF1400, C12, CT-26, LR-32 system, Domino 500, RO125, MFK 700, Carvex w/ accsy, Sys-roll,  CXS, Kapex, UG with extensions, RO90

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 179
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 12:40 PM »
Pros: Great control, runs smooth, enough power and good power control, track friendly, etc.

Cons: No grip on the handle, no light, some parts like the router plate and dust shrouds are a bit cumbersome, depth gauge is mildly non-intuitive and plastic cam levers for tightening don't always feel robust (similar to Domino cam levers), etc.

Verdict: I actually like using it because of the control and ease of use despite some of the things I listed as drawbacks. But again, it's strength is away from the router table. I give it 8 out of 10 when compared out of the Festool line. In the Festool line I don't know because it's the only Festool router I own. 

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3402
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 04:57 PM »
Note too that Jesse makes a lift that fits the 1400, so you aren't necessarily locked into the cms

http://www.jessemdirect.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=380
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1732
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 08:38 PM »
If you are going to use the 1400 merely as a table mounted router, I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a router/table combo. I purchased the Incra table/fence/lift/under table dust collection, and the PC motor for under table mounting. The whole setup is amazing. It's fairly easy to assemble, setup, and use and is extremely accurate both vertically and the fence. I looked at the Festool router table and have used it a couple of times in Festool classes. While the dust collection is probably the best, I don't like the fence. It can't compare to Incra for accuracy and precision. Also, the Incra table with either Incra's stand or one you would make yourself is much more solid than the Festool table. If you need to fold up the table and take it with you to job sites, then I'd say it may be the one for you. If you use in your shop exclusively, then I'd recommend the Incra combo.

The 1400 excels as a handheld router, so if that is what you will use it for, I can see no downsides. Dust collection is fantastic. It's accurate. It works on the guide rails and t hat is a great feature. Also, the lineup marks on the base of the router are for the center of the bit which allows easy setup to match your layout. I love it as a handheld router.
Randy

Offline Shadow

  • Posts: 3
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2017, 03:03 PM »
Thanks for your information, since I plan to use the router in a table I decided to go with an Incra System.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2017, 04:58 PM »
Thanks for your information, since I plan to use the router in a table I decided to go with an Incra System.

What router are you stuff in there?

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1732
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2017, 06:52 PM »
Thanks for your information, since I plan to use the router in a table I decided to go with an Incra System.

@Shadow For me, that was a great choice. Don't want to get the thread off track, but I wanted to be sure you understood about the router that you plan to use in the table. I don't think the OF1400 will work with the Incra (actually a Jessem I think) lift. It might, but I chose to buy the PC7518 motor that is sold on the Incra store site (incramentaltools.com). The Jessem lift is setup out of the box for that lift and mounts very easily.

If you compare prices, I would guess that you would find their site is probably at least as good as any other for Incra. Unless they changed their policy, the first purchase from them will result in 10% off their prices (if you sign up for their preferred customer list). The only problem is that their shipping costs are high and the 10% might just pay for shipping.
Randy

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1732
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2017, 11:35 PM »
Since I posted last I saw in another thread that Jessem does make a router lift that works with the OF1400. However, Incra doesn't list that router as one that can be mounted in their lift. This would be one thing you'd have to verify if you wanted to go with the OF1400. However, it is nice to have a router mounted in the table dedicated to the  table as it isn't that quick a job to mount and unmount the router.
Randy

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2017, 12:40 AM »
There are few good choices for the router table the PC is of them.

For hand held the 1400 makes more sense than using a 3HP/2kW beast of a router with less than optimal dust collection.

Stuffing the 1400 in the table makes no sense compared to using a beastly router with double the power.

You probably eventually need two routers anyhow, if we assume that one stays in the table and you also need a hand held one.
Luckily those two routers are not exactly the same.

Offline DiscoStu

  • Posts: 152
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2017, 02:42 AM »
I have a 1400 and use it outside of a table and it's a great bit of kit. I have the Triton TRA001 in my table and that seems to be a sensible move. Very powerful and able to be adjust from above it's a great option but for anything outside of the table I use the 1400.


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Offline tyke

  • Posts: 6
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2017, 03:07 AM »
Similar story for me to DiscoStu's - 1400 for outside the table and in my case a Dewalt 625 in the table with a Routerlift. The 1400 is a great and easy to use for handheld work. But for in a table you really want a bigger router to give best results. Unless you are only going to use a router occasionally I think having 2 for different types of work is the way to go. Swapping a router out of a table becomes a real pain after a while.


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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7647
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2017, 03:19 AM »
Cons .. it's bigger than a 1010 and smaller than a 2200.
Pros .. it's bigger than a 1010 and smaller than a 2200.

In the Festool range the 1400 is the one router you buy to do most things.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2570
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2017, 05:00 AM »
It's the Festool all rounder. If you can only have one, this is the one! However if you are going to use it on a router table look elswhere. A table router probably needs more power. There have been suggestions earlier in this  thread.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 05:03 AM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline Shadow

  • Posts: 3
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2017, 10:00 AM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1292
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2017, 10:31 AM »
PC 7518

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1732
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2017, 01:59 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

@Shadow The PC7518 would be the most powerful of the 3 I think. I haven't found anything my 7518 motor (which I also bought from Incra out of convenience) won't do. I would also recommend some sort of under table dust collection or, at the very least, making something for mounting under the table. The fence mounted port on the Wonder Fence really is only effective if the bit is very close to or buried partially in the fence. If you are going to install under table dust collection I would also recommend the slotted inserts for the router lift plate. They improve airflow and, as a result, dust collection, significantly.

As far as I can tell the Incra Master Lift II is a Jessem lift. The Jessem lift appears identical to the Incra Master Lift II. I would also say that Incra's customer service is the best of any company I've ever dealt with. They always provide direct and useful answers to your questions either directly on the phone or within a day or less if a message is left. I only had one issue with a part on the Incra Combo I bought and Incra remedied it without problem and within a short period after I called.
Randy

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1569
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2017, 02:17 PM »
I've been using a Bench Dog lift with a PC 7518 in my self made 30 x 49 router table for the last 20 some years.  The Bench Dog lift is industrial quality cast iron with bronze bearings.  I added an Incra LS positioner and Wonderfence and Dust Router collection about six years ago.  The only upgrade I would even consider would be to switch to the Bench Dog cast iron table.  This would allow me to use the Magswitchs 400s that I use for stops and guides on my table saws.

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 67
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2017, 05:22 PM »
Thanks for your information, since I plan to use the router in a table I decided to go with an Incra System.

This was the choice I made, I use a PC motor and the Incra system and I have a 1400 and 1010 for handheld.  I wanted the CMS just to have it but in reality it seemed like it wasn't nearly as good as having a dedicated Incra table with a powerful motor.  Best of both worlds!

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2017, 06:23 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.
...

Finally an easy choice. I do not believe that the PC come in 230v so for me the Triton. And the Triton has its own lift of sorts, so without an Incra/Jessum lift then the Triton.

In the USA or Canada then the biggest PC that Incra recommends which is the 7518. If you stall that machine you are doing too much.

But any of those choices make more sense than the 1400 in a table.

Offline Dovetail65

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    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2017, 08:10 PM »
The Porter Cable 7519 comes in a 230V, it's one heck of a work horse.

I swear they had the 7518 in 230V, I can't find it online right now, but I thought my friend had one, Ill ring him up.

The PC 892 isn't a very good router, at least the 110Version isn't. I have them on a shelf and don't use them.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 08:15 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 704
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2017, 08:58 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2017, 09:09 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.
He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 67
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2017, 10:54 PM »
Haha that thing with 230 should be called a shaper.

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 704
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2017, 04:20 AM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.

He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.

OK, didn't realize that. I based my response on him saying he had narrowed his choices to include the PC7518. I must have missed where he said he needed 230v power.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 488
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2017, 05:18 AM »
I've got this setup (Of1400, CMS) and i'm happy with it. N.B. I'm a hobbyist with space constraints, and Incra is not widely available overhere. YMMV.
Just for today..

Offline Woodwork Wizard

  • Posts: 421
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2017, 07:03 AM »
The CMS router table is brilliant with an OF2200 in it. The collet rises just above the top for easy bit changes, dust extraction is better and there's a lot more power than the OF1400.

Having tried both the 1400 and the 2200 in the CMS it's pretty obvious the CMS router table module was designed primarily for the 2200. It's okay with the 1400, but it is so much better with a 2200 installed.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4553
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2017, 02:57 AM »
I'm with you Woodwork Wizard.

I got my 2200 in my CMS and it's awesome. Though when I return to the states suddenly I won't be able to.

I have a 1010 for basic hand reading using but I also hand hold and use the 2200 for larger bits. It's  amazing matching heavy but well balanced.

Though I did have to buy a 6mm collet so I could use 1/4 shank bits in it. I feel it should of came with it.
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2017, 07:47 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.

He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.

OK, didn't realize that. I based my response on him saying he had narrowed his choices to include the PC7518. I must have missed where he said he needed 230v power.

The Milwaukee 5625-20 is superior to the PC7518 and second fiddle to the OF2200 for Router Table use.  I’m not 100% if they make a 5625-20 in 230 V.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2017, 08:08 AM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2017, 09:38 AM »
The biggest change many would like to see to the 1400 is the ability to switch from the extended handle to a knob.  There’s some jigs where the long handle can get in the way. 

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1429
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2017, 10:31 AM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Well, there's this baby too:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-lo65ec-hand-router


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3711
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2017, 10:36 PM »
The Milwaukee 5625-20 is superior to the PC7518 and second fiddle to the OF2200 for Router Table use.  I’m not 100% if they make a 5625-20 in 230 V.

I have a 5625-20 in a router table and it’s a beast. A truly fantastic, powerful router, but it functions best in a router table because it does not have a plunge base and a plunge base is not available.

I’m not aware of a 5625-20 router being available in 230V.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2017, 03:24 AM »
The Milwaukee 5625-20 is superior to the PC7518 and second fiddle to the OF2200 for Router Table use.  I’m not 100% if they make a 5625-20 in 230 V.

I have a 5625-20 in a router table and it’s a beast. A truly fantastic, powerful router, but it functions best in a router table because it does not have a plunge base and a plunge base is not available.

I’m not aware of a 5625-20 router being available in 230V.

I never been able to figure out why Milwaukee won’t sell the 5625 as a motor only.  I think a lot people buy this router and toss the flat base in the recycle bin.  It runs circles around the Triton and the Porter Cable when use large panel bits in a router table. 

It’s the only motor I can think of that can give the OF 2200 a run for it’s money.

Makita and Milwaukee have the same problem.  They both build amazing motors but they forget to finish the rest of the machines. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3711
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2017, 03:38 AM »
It runs circles around the Triton and the Porter Cable when use large panel bits in a router table. 

It’s the only motor I can think of that can give the OF 2200 a run for it’s money.


I agree, if Milwaukee were to enhance the handling characteristics of this router, power wise it is very easily the equivalent of the 2200. Those big goofy side handles make it only suitable for router table table use. And then there's the dust collection issue...

I also have to admit that it'd be a shame to just hang a 2200 under a router table as the reasons for purchasing it would be diminished.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 03:54 AM by Cheese »

Offline amt

  • Posts: 363
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2017, 10:29 AM »
Many will probably think I am crazy, but I have purchased a 4HP, 3-phase spindle motor and a 5HP VFD, plus the Jessem/Incra router lift for my router table.  I have not assembled it yet, but it should be the last in-table router I ever need.  Not cheap, but less expensive than the OF2200 (which I also have for hand held use).  Spindle is also water cooled, so I won't have that router air flow interference going on.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1429
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2017, 10:44 AM »
why didn't you just buy a shaper if you needed all that power ?

Offline amt

  • Posts: 363
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2017, 10:52 AM »
why didn't you just buy a shaper if you needed all that power ?

Shapers are (a) expensive (b) big (c) don't necessarily spin to high RPM.  The cost of my solution was slightly more than a standard router.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2017, 04:56 PM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Well, there's this baby too:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-lo65ec-hand-router

Clearly it is what I would likely be getting, but to take a contrarian stance...

The triton has a slick little depth adjuster that works from the business side of the machine.
So it also alleviates the need for a separate lift.

In a table application it makes some sense to me to compare the Triton with the Mafell.

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 62
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2017, 10:06 PM »
@amt Would you mind posting a link to the spindle motor and VFD you bought? Does it fit without shims? I have an Incra Master Lift II that I haven't put together yet and was thinking of going down the water cooled route, but the tolerances required to fit without shims gave me pause. Most spindles are 80mm, which Incra confirmed would not fit. And no, I don't need the power. Already have a Felder shaper. Just want to do it to see if it can be done.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2017, 10:15 AM »
There is a triton in 230v which is nice for a table mount.
If one need maximum power, then there is only 1 expensive choice.

Well, there's this baby too:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-lo65ec-hand-router

Clearly it is what I would likely be getting, but to take a contrarian stance...

The triton has a slick little depth adjuster that works from the business side of the machine.
So it also alleviates the need for a separate lift.

In a table application it makes some sense to me to compare the Triton with the Mafell.

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1732
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2017, 12:47 PM »
At this point, can't add much, but I would agree that using an expensive router like the OF1400 or a Mafell in a table is kind of a waste of a great router. I would opt for (and did) for a router motor that is really just made for the table. I'm sure others can recommend motors just as good or better but, for me, the PC 7518 motor has worked well. It has a lot of power to do almost anything I'd want to do with it. So far, no problems with it although it seems others have had some.
Randy

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 116
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2017, 01:14 PM »
They sell the Porter Cable 75182 'motor only' for a reason.  It's basically the 'standard' for a router lift as is the Mast-R-Lift II.  If I was thinking of using any other router, I would buy one of the ones listed on Incra's Page (it wouldn't be a Festool)

http://www.incra.com/router_system_accessories-mast-r-lift-ii.html

Same thing if you like another lift - see what it is designed to fit

Offline amt

  • Posts: 363
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2017, 01:52 PM »
@amt Would you mind posting a link to the spindle motor and VFD you bought? Does it fit without shims? I have an Incra Master Lift II that I haven't put together yet and was thinking of going down the water cooled route, but the tolerances required to fit without shims gave me pause. Most spindles are 80mm, which Incra confirmed would not fit. And no, I don't need the power. Already have a Felder shaper. Just want to do it to see if it can be done.

@egmiii I have not finished mounting the pindle, but it looks like I will need to use ~1/8" shim.  I was just going to pick up some 1/8" aluminum bar stock and wrap it around the spindle.  If it's too thick, I'll mill it down a bit.  I believe my spindle is 100mm.  I got one off ebay, and it had the description of, "TOP 3KW WATER-COOLED MOTOR SPINDLE ENGRAVING MILL GRIND 220V CNC".

The VFD I got is from ENC, 5HP, designed specifically for 1 phase input.  PM me if you want more info, and I can put you in touch with the seller.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2017, 06:38 PM »

...

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Do you missed the numerous posts about the PC or the Trition as being good choices for a table?

Sometimes it is not about cost, but other factors.

Some reasons I would use to convince myself...
(I have an 8-mm router, and do not have a lot of "shop room".)

- a large router that can do both table and freehand work may not be optimal in terms of flow, but I would only need one. (The 2200 works in this space)

- For the occasional "shaper like use" the most powerful router would be the one likely to not stall.
- the LO65 is the most powerful

- the LO65 only one actually recommended for use with the Ligna timber tool.


Of course a few of us mentioned the PC and the Triton, for table use, as a pretty viable option.

Offended is not the right word, but being judged on how I may want to spend or "WASTE" my money, when I could have gotten some different cheaper tool... does not really go down well with me.

However; I am happy discussing the reasoning of why I may want one, and noodling out whether the reasoning is sound.

I am not sure using a 2600W router freehand is wise... So I am not sure that it "SHINES" there... But I am imagining the scenes out of the Shining.

If one only has room, or funding, for a single router... then the FT1400 does take the 1/2" bits, which are ubiquitous in the US. I cannot think of many good arguments to have a 1400 and then shove it into a table... Unless one was pulling it out often.
(But for some reason the less frills LO65, with the big block motor, seems like it makes sense.)

Luckily most of my current needs are satisfied with the 8-mm bits. But I have some doors coming up, and this thread parallels the same chin scratchings.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2017, 01:41 AM »

...

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Do you missed the numerous posts about the PC or the Trition as being good choices for a table?

Sometimes it is not about cost, but other factors.

Some reasons I would use to convince myself...
(I have an 8-mm router, and do not have a lot of "shop room".)

- a large router that can do both table and freehand work may not be optimal in terms of flow, but I would only need one. (The 2200 works in this space)

- For the occasional "shaper like use" the most powerful router would be the one likely to not stall.
- the LO65 is the most powerful

- the LO65 only one actually recommended for use with the Ligna timber tool.


Of course a few of us mentioned the PC and the Triton, for table use, as a pretty viable option.

Offended is not the right word, but being judged on how I may want to spend or "WASTE" my money, when I could have gotten some different cheaper tool... does not really go down well with me.

However; I am happy discussing the reasoning of why I may want one, and noodling out whether the reasoning is sound.

I am not sure using a 2600W router freehand is wise... So I am not sure that it "SHINES" there... But I am imagining the scenes out of the Shining.

If one only has room, or funding, for a single router... then the FT1400 does take the 1/2" bits, which are ubiquitous in the US. I cannot think of many good arguments to have a 1400 and then shove it into a table... Unless one was pulling it out often.
(But for some reason the less frills LO65, with the big block motor, seems like it makes sense.)

Luckily most of my current needs are satisfied with the 8-mm bits. But I have some doors coming up, and this thread parallels the same chin scratchings.

It wasn’t meant as an insult.  I was doing the math in my head for price of a Mafell or OF 2200 and a solid router table, you’re coming pretty close to the price of a decent quality Shaper.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1096
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2017, 10:25 PM »
This thread hits home for me.  I'm currently weighing my options. I had a full sized router table but got rid of it due to space considerations. I'm really leaning towards a CMS-VL and put my OF1400 in it.  For what I will use it for, the 1400 should have plenty of power. I thought about the Incra system but I had a Jointech for while and found I didn't need the positioner as I have a couple of Leigh jigs I can use which I presume would also work of the CMS. It's a lot of money to start with so I'm wondering if going whole hog and getting the set is worth it.  I don't build cabinet doors so I'm wondering what other applications the miter fence and the sliding table would be.  I really need the dust collection accessory tho.  I also think it would be a good thing to be able to fold up the table and store it out of the way when I'm not using it.  That's kinda hard to do with a traditional router table.  Has there been much buyer remorse for any of you who have either CMS?  I'm also going to get from Ebay a Trion CMS plate too so there's always that consideration.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 582
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2017, 04:42 AM »
I'm really leaning towards a CMS-VL and put my OF1400 in it.
I would suggest you go for a CMS-GE instead the -VL.
Reasoning:
+ can be used on its own
+ when folded down to store the plate can stay in (as it guarantees room for the mounted tool)
+ feed direction can bet setup freely in relation to the MFT, not only perpendicular like with the -VL
+ footprint when folded not that much worse than the -VL (which has longer legs)
+ not that much more expensive than the -VL
+ can also be attached easily to a MFT with a simple jig (out of two boards, top one with triangles glued on to go into the v-groves, held together with a screw) on all sides

Quote
Has there been much buyer remorse for any of you who have either CMS?
I have two CMS-GE (usually permanently setup with OF and TS 75 plates, unless I need the tools as handhelds), no real complaints after I got used to it.
Quote
I'm also going to get from Ebay a Trion CMS plate too so there's always that consideration.
Unless you need an inverted, fixed jigsaw on a regular basis (for whatever reason): most likely a bandsaw is more useful.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1096
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2017, 11:49 AM »
I wouldn't need to get the set then as I can use my MFT as an outfeed table when necessary. The only accessory I see really being mandatory is the dust collection hoses, etc.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 582
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2017, 01:10 PM »
I wouldn't need to get the set then as I can use my MFT as an outfeed table when necessary.
That's the thing with the CMS-VL: you can't use the MFT as outfeed, unless you have another one.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2017, 01:18 PM »
I have narrowed my choice of routers to 3 Routers, P. C. 892, P. C. 7518, or Triton 2-1/4 H.P, any suggestions to help narrow my choices.

Router Table 1st choice, Incra Wonder Fence With Positioner with Incra Lift, I like JessEm however it appears from reviews Customer Service is not a strong point after the sale.

Thanks

PC 7518 would be my choice for a router that will remain mounted in a router table.
He is looking for 230V though or yeah i agree the PC has proven itself for years, though I prefer my Milwaukee in the table over it.

I thought the 7519 was single speed not making it ideal for a router table.  People make an argument against the Milwaukee that it cannot quickly change collets.  Granted, it’s not a great idea to use anything less than 1/2 inch bits on a 3.5 HP router.

I’m surprised there isn’t a 230v version the the variable speed 7518.

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #61 on: November 12, 2017, 01:08 AM »

...

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Do you missed the numerous posts about the PC or the Trition as being good choices for a table?

Sometimes it is not about cost, but other factors.
...
Luckily most of my current needs are satisfied with the 8-mm bits. But I have some doors coming up, and this thread parallels the same chin scratchings.

It wasn’t meant as an insult.  I was doing the math in my head for price of a Mafell or OF 2200 and a solid router table, you’re coming pretty close to the price of a decent quality Shaper.

Wasn't taken as an insult...
I do not have room for a shaper and router.
I do not know much about shapers, but I made some door with a router once, and getting a monster router seems to make sense... but as you pointed out, maybe it does not.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2017, 03:19 AM »

...

Why would anyone waste a pricey Mafell on a router table?   It would be cheaper to put a powerful motor in a lift and put the Mafell to use on challenging free tasks where it really shines.

Do you missed the numerous posts about the PC or the Trition as being good choices for a table?

Sometimes it is not about cost, but other factors.
...
Luckily most of my current needs are satisfied with the 8-mm bits. But I have some doors coming up, and this thread parallels the same chin scratchings.

It wasn’t meant as an insult.  I was doing the math in my head for price of a Mafell or OF 2200 and a solid router table, you’re coming pretty close to the price of a decent quality Shaper.

Wasn't taken as an insult...
I do not have room for a shaper and router.
I do not know much about shapers, but I made some door with a router once, and getting a monster router seems to make sense... but as you pointed out, maybe it does not.

It would always come down to how you’re using the router.  If you’re pushing through extremely hard exotics it may make sense to use the Mafell in the table.

We have a smaller variety of exotics available in Canada because some exotics can’t handle our climate or and some exotics simply cost too much to sell in our market.  A Milwaukee 5625 mounted in a router lift can handle any of he wood types readily available in Canada.  A 5625 and Incra mount cost about $850 Canadian.  That’s hardly a budget solution.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 03:46 PM by Steven Owen »

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #63 on: November 12, 2017, 06:17 AM »
You also have 110v and +1 as the country code... which means that a PC is also an option.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 264
Re: 1400 Router Pros and Cons
« Reply #64 on: November 12, 2017, 03:49 PM »
You also have 110v and +1 as the country code... which means that a PC is also an option.

I don’t like the newer PC’s that have been rolling off the assembly line in recent years.  Stanley has been on a cost cutting spree trying to get more PC tools into Lowes and Home Depot stores.  The PC bearings are very low quality.