Author Topic: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex  (Read 15381 times)

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Offline itchy

  • Posts: 89
After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex. Despite having a lot of festool products purchasing the kapex was the most difficult decision. I think it really only came down to the price around here it is three times more then the closest bosch, dewalt, makita or hitachi. In hindsight if I had purchased it four years ago I would have saved myself a lot of money!

I have only had the saw for two weeks so my opinion is based on that timeframe and it has not seen extensive job site use in that time. To start quite simply it is without a shadow of doubt the best sliding miter saw I have ever used, period. One thing that kept me from purchasing it sooner was ‘how much better can it be over my current saw?’ that got the job done, answer, much better. It cuts so smooth at all miters, compounds and at full extension there is no noticeable deflection while cutting. The cuts really are glassy smooth with no burning and they are straight over the full length of the cut.

Out of the box the only thing that was not completely prefect was the right lasers alignment, this was easily adjusted. This is likely something most people would want to adjust anyway as preferences differ. The blade, fence, table were all set perfectly square/flat and I mean perfect. Trust me on that after reading some of the negative comments recently I really tried my best to find a whisper of light through the square. I was looking for a reason not to like it so I could save myself $1,849.00 (before tax) but I couldn’t.

Things I like about the saw and reasons for purchasing:

Weight so much easier to transport to the job site.

Dust collect is so much better than anything I have used before or tried to modify.

Dual lasers, I have always used line of sight before and thought lasers were a gimmick. These lasers
really do work and they are really precise throughout the full movement of the saw.

Forward rail design, for me this is so useful I can work closer to a wall or on a shallower workbench.

I am in awe of this saw at the moment it is early days so I will update after more extensive use.

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Offline David Stanton

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 12:07 AM »
I still can't fault mine after 6 months. Early days considering my 2 previous saws, bosch and Makita lasted over 10 years each, but I am a glass half full kinda guy. [smile]
Click here for Dave Stanton on Youtube
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Offline Flatsawn

  • Posts: 194
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 01:03 AM »
I've watched your videos Dave and appreciate them, you do come across that way.

Itchy, I just got mine and felt the same as you. Now let the fun begin [big grin]

Mark

Offline DB10

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 03:13 AM »
Itchy well done,  I was in the same boat as you regarding my Kapex purchase, I ummed and arred over it for so long, which is unusual for me. Most of my tool purchases involve a degree of research and then I make a quick decision.
   My main concern was justifying the price $1800 Aus, as I too was comparing it to the other miter saws that you mentioned and it was hard to justify.
 I watched the price of the Kapex go up and then it suddenly went down in price last year, which is rare for Festool Aus. I'm glad I bought it then as the price went back up again down hear in January.
 Mine was also easy to set up following the suplementary guide instructions and like others on hear so far I have no regrets apart from I wish I purchased it erlier, Oh well better late than never.

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 196
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2016, 04:06 AM »
I also like the Kapex. If my Makita was to die tomorrow I would happily replace it with a Kapex. I like the room behind the saw and the cut capacity for the footprint.

Festool only gets dearer, it's one of those things where it's quicker to jump now.

Regards
Graham
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55

Offline itchy

  • Posts: 89
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2016, 11:10 AM »
Yeah I watched it go up in price and wish I had purchased it earlier both for the savings and enjoyment of using it. Because festool prices increase regularly that why their resale value is so good.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 3071
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2016, 11:53 AM »
$1849...OUCH...throw in the local state sales tax and we're talking a $2000 miter saw without the extras.  [eek]

I feel for you CAN & AUS guys/gals, when they draw blood, they draw it directly from your neck.

And to think I whimpered & winced when I had to fork over $1300 for mine.


Offline BMAC

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2016, 12:12 PM »
Yeah, pricing sucks in Australia and Canada. A Kapex in Canada will set you back $1,920.00 plus if you live in the province of British Columbia they ding you for an additional 5% GST and 7% PST in taxes, so a Kapex ends up costing you $2,150.40 which is nuts!

I bet the the per capita purchase rate for a Kapex in Canada and Australia is totally different than Europe, USA and elsewhere.
Bruce
BMAC Construction & Consulting Ltd.

Support services for the Fire and Flood Restoration Industry. Specializing in custom cabinetry restoration and millwork.

Offline Flatsawn

  • Posts: 194
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2016, 07:47 PM »
Itchy well done,  I was in the same boat as you regarding my Kapex purchase, I ummed and arred over it for so long, which is unusual for me. Most of my tool purchases involve a degree of research and then I make a quick decision.
   My main concern was justifying the price $1800 Aus, as I too was comparing it to the other miter saws that you mentioned and it was hard to justify.
 I watched the price of the Kapex go up and then it suddenly went down in price last year, which is rare for Festool Aus. I'm glad I bought it then as the price went back up again down hear in January.
 Mine was also easy to set up following the suplementary guide instructions and like others on hear so far I have no regrets apart from I wish I purchased it erlier, Oh well better late than never.

WOW! Kapex on the Australian futures market [big grin]

Offline icecactus

  • Posts: 58
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 12:24 PM »
@itchy, have you taken any feeler gauges and measured how unflat it is...

I just recently bought one, my table was not level. It was off by .012 on the left side. I sent it to festool service. When I got it back, it now has a .010 (I can easily see light under it) dish across the table instead. Festool says its within spec and told me to make test cuts. I did, my 2nd cut was slightly off. If the table was nice and flat, it would not have been off.

So I am left with accepting a sub par saw, or use the 30 day return policy and pay $70 to ship it back.  [mad]

TS 55 REQ, MFT/3, CT 48 w/Boom Arm, OF1400, LR32, 55" Holey Rail, 118" Rail, Domino 500, RO150, ETS150/3, RO90, DTS400

Offline David Stanton

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 06:56 PM »
@itchy, have you taken any feeler gauges and measured how unflat it is...

I just recently bought one, my table was not level. It was off by .012 on the left side. I sent it to festool service. When I got it back, it now has a .010 (I can easily see light under it) dish across the table instead. Festool says its within spec and told me to make test cuts. I did, my 2nd cut was slightly off. If the table was nice and flat, it would not have been off.

So I am left with accepting a sub par saw, or use the 30 day return policy and pay $70 to ship it back.  [mad]
As we all know nothing can be perfectly flat. Even a beam of light is bent by gravity. I am curious to know what tolerance you would see as acceptable.
Click here for Dave Stanton on Youtube
KAPEX 120, ROTEX 150, ETS 5 150, TS55, 800-1400-2700 TRACKS,  PDC 18-4 TEC, DOMINO XL, CXS, EHL 65, SYSLITE, HKC 55 EB, PSC 420 EB, CTL SYS, SYSROCK

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 07:34 PM »
@itchy, have you taken any feeler gauges and measured how unflat it is...

I just recently bought one, my table was not level. It was off by .012 on the left side. I sent it to festool service. When I got it back, it now has a .010 (I can easily see light under it) dish across the table instead. Festool says its within spec and told me to make test cuts. I did, my 2nd cut was slightly off. If the table was nice and flat, it would not have been off.

So I am left with accepting a sub par saw, or use the 30 day return policy and pay $70 to ship it back.  [mad]

I doubt in real life that will cause you an issue performance-wise but it might be an idealogical issue.  At least you have a choice.

Peter
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline itchy

  • Posts: 89
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2016, 11:05 PM »
@itchy, have you taken any feeler gauges and measured how unflat it is...

I just recently bought one, my table was not level. It was off by .012 on the left side. I sent it to festool service. When I got it back, it now has a .010 (I can easily see light under it) dish across the table instead. Festool says its within spec and told me to make test cuts. I did, my 2nd cut was slightly off. If the table was nice and flat, it would not have been off.

So I am left with accepting a sub par saw, or use the 30 day return policy and pay $70 to ship it back.  [mad]

I don't own feeler gauges, if i'm being honest my table is not 100% perfectly flat but it is close and I have not seen any indication of it in my cuts yet. The saw cuts beautifully, I understand you want it perfect especially given the price. Maximize your 30 day trail period and use the heck out of it to make sure you're happy. The first 30 minutes on the saw required me to get used to the feel of it and the motion as I was coming from a D handle grip saw. Keep making cuts as many as you can to get use to the technique and feel of it. I will say that clamping and holding the the work piece firmly does make a difference to cut quality, especially in miters as the direction of the cut can want to pull the piece away (nothing unique to the kapex). Good luck!

Offline glass1

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2016, 02:21 PM »
.01 mm or inches 

Offline Lbob131

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2016, 06:33 PM »
Icecactus    is from the USA  so its likely  inches.
Which is  0.3mm.

If its  from   the   table insert  to   the side of the saw  that's  0.3mm  over  300mm.
That would make the cut   about  0.12mm  inaccurate  over the maximum  depth of the cut. Which on the kapex  is 120mm.
Calibrate   the machine   using the  4 cut method and adjustment screws   if you want too split hairs.

My Makita  doesn't have that  level of accuracy. Nothing near it.
So when  I'm doing finer work I just hone the cut  on a shooting board.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 04:10 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Corwin

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 12:22 AM »
Yeah, I put off getting a Kapex for years too. Should have left it that way, I guess. It is still in my shop waiting to be returned and the cart, wings and hose are not getting any response in the classifieds. Lot of money gone to waste.  [crying]
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline itchy

  • Posts: 89
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2016, 12:31 AM »
It's so easy to get caught up analyzing the kapex with feeler gauges and straight edges and I really do understand why there is a tendency to do it. Try to look past that and use the saw extensively, read the supplementary manual, practice technique. It is a unique saw and handles differently to any other saw, technique is everything if you are trying to achieve accurate cuts.

Offline Shane Holland

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2016, 12:33 AM »
It's so easy to get caught up analyzing the kapex with feeler gauges and straight edges and I really do understand why there is a tendency to do it. Try to look past that and use the saw extensively, read the supplementary manual, practice technique. It is a unique saw and handles differently to any other saw, technique is everything if you are trying to achieve accurate cuts.

Well said.  [smile]

Still, everyone has their own ideas of what constitutes acceptable, as they should.
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Offline danbox

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 03:35 AM »
@itchy, have you taken any feeler gauges and measured how unflat it is...

I just recently bought one, my table was not level. It was off by .012 on the left side. I sent it to festool service. When I got it back, it now has a .010 (I can easily see light under it) dish across the table instead. Festool says its within spec and told me to make test cuts. I did, my 2nd cut was slightly off. If the table was nice and flat, it would not have been off.

So I am left with accepting a sub par saw, or use the 30 day return policy and pay $70 to ship it back.  [mad]
First I don't have a Kapex have also never used one, I do currently own both the top model compound mitre saws from Bosch and DeWalt. If your not happy with the tolerances you have mentioned what saw are you going to replace the Festool with? also what sort of carpentry work are you using it for?

Offline glass1

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 06:43 AM »
If it's .01 inches than its .254 mm or about 2.5 sheets of paper or 1/6 of 1/16" of an inch. That's a lot less than the one I got and returned and the many store samples I have looked at.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 429
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2016, 09:31 AM »
If it's .01 inches than its .254 mm or about 2.5 sheets of paper or 1/6 of 1/16" of an inch. That's a lot less than the one I got and returned and the many store samples I have looked at.

0.254mm is smaller    than  1/16  of  an inch.   1/16" = 1.587mm.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2016, 09:38 AM »
If it's .01 inches than its .254 mm or about 2.5 sheets of paper or 1/6 of 1/16" of an inch. That's a lot less than the one I got and returned and the many store samples I have looked at.

0.254mm is smaller    than  1/16  of  an inch.   1/16" = 1.587mm.

Glass1 said 1/6 of a 1/16 of an inch.
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Offline Lbob131

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 09:41 AM »
Sorry my apologies.

Offline icecactus

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2016, 12:39 PM »
The reason I asked is because i see many people say their's is perfect. I realize this is in the eye of the beholder and why I asked if he actually measured it.

I'm curious to how many actually have flat tables. I hear people say they have flat tables and cant see light. If they cant see light, they must be within a few thousandths. I can easily see light on mine and therefore my saw can never have as good of a tolerance as someones that cannot see light.

So, someone asked bout the 4 cut method. Yup, I did it, and its flipping spot on! So kudos to festool for that...unfortunately the 4 cut only tests the flatness of your turret and not the entire table. My turret is dead flat and festool dialed the bevel in great! So if I am cutting 4-5" pieces I have perfect cuts. It's about .001 per inch off, in case anyone is wondering, which awesome.

So, what is my expectation of table flatness....within .003. What's aggravating is they have a fantastic saw, but built it on a sub par base. Which the base is critical since it effects everything else on the saw.

I am not going to return the saw. I really like the features and I can't really tell its off, unless I am cutting a piece that's over 2.5" tall. A 5" tall piece is pretty noticeable. It would also cost me $70 to return it. For $125 I could get it surface ground to within .001.

Now, before you all start busting my chops, I was talking to the machine shop about Blanchard grinding a welding table and I figured I would ask him about the miter saw table while I was at it. Takes about 15 minutes, but they have a 1 hour minimum. No, I am not going to do it. I was just curious as to the cost to make it flat.

There is actually quite a bit of flex in the base of the Kapex. I put a credit card underneath the center back of the saw. Where it rests on the MFT. I made a cut on a 4" tall piece that spanned the entire base. It was actually pretty close to perfect.
TS 55 REQ, MFT/3, CT 48 w/Boom Arm, OF1400, LR32, 55" Holey Rail, 118" Rail, Domino 500, RO150, ETS150/3, RO90, DTS400

Offline Krkww

  • Posts: 97
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2016, 01:13 PM »
@Corwin

I suffered the same disappointment you did nearly two years ago when I took the Kapex plunge. I set the saw up with as much care as I possible could since I have meticulously high standards. And consequently I had very high expectations for the Kapex.

When I accomplished the 4 cut test, it was not spot on as I had hoped, but it was 3x better than the mfg. tolerances. The dust collection was not nearly as efficient as I had hoped for. But it was far better than any saw I had used previous.

I opted to keep the saw as I was building a very special kitchen for a client that ofeatured solid white oak carcasses and solid black walnut face frames, doors and exposed sides. I needed the extra cross cut capacity that my DW705 did not handle.

All this to say that after using the saw for nearly two years, my work has not suffered. In fact, comments from the client and those who have seen the completed project would indicate quite the opposite. They all know of my meticulous attention to detail and any open joints would be strictly forbidden on my part.

I had to come to this conclusion: I am not a machinist. I am a woodworker and as such I use a material that moves more than metal. I understand your disappointment and desire to minimize your losses by parting ways with your new saw. But I hope this brief testimonial will help you reconsider.

Very respectfully,
Kevin

Offline Corwin

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Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2016, 01:26 PM »
Kevin,

My saw arrived with a deformed fence. I was attempting to replace my older compound miter saw with something more accurate, however, that old miter saw has a much straighter fence on it than this new Kapex. I'm sure most Kapex saws don't have this problem when delivered. I just have no confidence in this saw now. And the return delay is making it all much worse. Not happy with Festool products just now.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline TomE

  • Posts: 131
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 09:09 PM »
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/kapex-left-outboard-table-wonky!!!/msg404117/#msg404117
Posted this sometime ago after reading some of these check the saw for flat and straight comments.
The OP was saying that gaps large enough to slip Xacto blades between his edges, so I checked mine with a milled straight edge and feelers just to see what's up.

Basically the entire saw was within .003-.006 over all work surfaces. Where there was variance it happened between the finger lines but since my zero clearance insert was slightly proud even that variance is negligible for wood cutting.

Considering that my .5mm (.02) pencil or tighter knife lines and measuring/marking devices are well beyond those tolerances and the saw is calibrated within 'reason' (probably less than a few tenths degree full out),  I can live with it.

Don't know what's with the more recent saws, tension, warping, whatever.

Offline morogue

  • Posts: 44
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2016, 02:22 AM »
I saw reference to my post about how wonky my kapex base was and thought I could just head off some clicks over to my thread:
I was able to "unwarp" the base by shimming under the base and using a lot of u bolts to secure it (gorilla torque) to a Ridgid mitre saw utility cart, which is ridgid steel.
There is a bunch of flop and flex in the head (affecting bevel) if you only use the standard hold down points.
Just throw enough shims and tie downs at it, c inching it to a rigid base and it'll work well enough.

Offline Wood Hog

  • Posts: 96
Re: After putting it off for four years I have finally picked up a Kapex
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2016, 02:19 PM »
I too procrastinated before finally pulling the plug, but love it now.
www.loveitbee.com T75, CT 26, ETS150/3, 3000 rail 75 rail, MFT3, LR23, OF1010, LR32, Domino XL700, 55"Holy Rail,various clamps Kapex, UG cart and extension wings, 36 mm hose, Parralle guide set. Carvex PSB 420 EBQ, And I'm done, no more festool for me that's it. Although I really like the RO 90' no stay away, help! I need help!

Offline rand17

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My miter box and backsaw have been the best and most accurate tools I have....