Author Topic: Best Kapex review I've seen  (Read 6555 times)

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Offline MarcV

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Best Kapex review I've seen
« on: November 30, 2017, 12:27 PM »
I found a real world review of the Kapex on youtube. The guy has abused it for 7 years with zero problems.








Moderator note...... video removed due to safety features missing.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 11:45 AM by SRSemenza »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline McNally Family

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 01:25 PM »
@MarcV
 
Thank you for posting this video! 




Moderator note...... video removed due to safety features (blade guard) missing.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 11:45 AM by SRSemenza »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) |  SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sanders RTSC 400 Set, DTSC 400 Basic, ETSC 125 Basic  | Linear Sander LS 130 | Next  Purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 405
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 09:15 PM »
Where is the video?

EDIT:  Musta been something on my end. The video wasn’t available when I posted, but is now. I gotta say, I like the author’s candor and his no holds barred language.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 06:26 AM by Naildrivingman »
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline Harry1561

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 09:46 PM »
Thanks for posting this video. Great to hear a positive  review on the Kapex.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 10:26 PM »
His keeps goin and goin ,

but the reason I might not want one is that there are waaaaaay too many reports of saws that are younger and more cared for that blow smoke after year 2 & 3 & 4 that make risking $1500 too great for a gee wiz bevel system.

I have miter saws that I can get just as accurate cuts with widely available blades and they're 20+ years old.  And I can re set the compound miter knocked out by the yahoo just as fast because I use a dialed in piece for the test fit as a template.   It's unlikely that you need a 5.5 deg. bevel for the next cut anyway.   I will concede, mine won't get there a easy or stylishly as kapex will. 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:31 PM by antss »

Offline RVHernandez

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 11:50 PM »
You may say "I hear of wayyyy too many bad Kapex problems... but seriously, when was the last time any of us ever posted "Just checking in. My Kapex is just working fine today." My point is, we hear of all the problems and complaints, but hardly anybody posts when things are working fine.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:54 PM by RVHernandez »

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 58
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2017, 05:24 AM »
If folks want a better idea of how many people on this forum own a Kapex and what their experiences are, then someone really should set up a poll with three options:

1. Own a Kapex 120; Love it.
2. Own a Kapex 120; Smoked it.
3. Don't own a Kapex 120 (list your CMS in the comments)

Thoughts?
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2017, 06:35 AM »
Polls were disabled in the software years ago due to the fact that spammers were flocking to that feature and because so many polls were poorly developed.  Editing a poll after people started posting in the thread became difficult to do and could have been viewed as altering the voting.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2017, 09:13 AM »
Polls were disabled in the software years ago due to the fact that spammers were flocking to that feature and because so many polls were poorly developed.  Editing a poll after people started posting in the thread became difficult to do and could have been viewed as altering the voting.

Peter

Peter, wasn't there a thread about a year or so ago in which people wrote in and explained how they used their Kapex and whether they had issues with it or not?

The reason I ask you, is because I thought you weighed in on it to keep the discussion in line.

Offline RobWoodCutter

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2017, 09:31 AM »
Having been a moderator on a forum before and tracking all users, when they joined, when they quit, when the posted first, how many posts they made and last post and looking at the trends of there posts and I can tell you from my experience that 95 percent of the folks the own the Kapex probably don't visit this site if it is working properly.

If someone that moderates this site had access to the number of all individuals that own festool products and those that are actually register at this site, you would most likely see a lot missing in action.

We had 9000 register user on the group I helped moderated and polls would only attract about 20-30 even when we offered a give away.

 Of the 9000 members that joined less than 400 ever posted and less than 50 were regular posters.  When we sent out a forced email to all the register user telling them we were verifying users that wanted to stay as members we got roughly 60 response if I remembered correctly. 

People joined before they purchased to asked questions or just browse for peoples experience or joined after they purchased to search for help and if they did find their answer they would post once or twice and would disappear. When an upgrade came along or they wanted to get into the more advance features of the product, they might return, ask a question and then disappeared again for years.

So unless Festool were to send out a questionnaire to all currently known owners of the Kapex, the poll would not tell you a whole lot. You would only be getting a small sampling of happy users and a larger sample of the unhappy users.

PS I have one and use it almost every other day and have no issues with mine. (other than the oil leak issue.)

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2017, 10:09 AM »


So unless Festool were to send out a questionnaire to all currently known owners of the Kapex, the poll would not tell you a whole lot.

Why all the trouble of (another unreliable) poll?

Festool has the data in its repair dept. as well as # of units produced, # of units sold, etc. Living in the digital age, Festool has captured all the vital statistics and it has its reasons why it would not want to share them.

The Kapex problem (real or imaginary) would not go away and people on the opposite side would continue to believe what they believe in the absence of any official hard data available to them.

Yes, the worries (real or imaginary) would affect sales/Festool's reputation and the confidence of some owners (me included; mine is... let me check...almost three years old now with three months left on the warranty). But it is not the end of the world. Of course, if mine became a junk, I would not replace it with another Kapex (small or large).

As for the review, the title (seven years) and the battered look of the saw gave me a sense of hope and to me, that's the most useful piece of info. to take away. (I, however, did not like seeing the guard removed even for the purposes of reviewing.)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 10:18 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2017, 11:17 AM »
I liked the review, just a regular working guy saying what he likes and what he doesn't like.  [thumbs up]  I also loved the adult language...refreshing for a change in this day and age.  [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

Offline pettyconstruction

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2017, 11:55 AM »
I liked the review, just a regular working guy saying what he likes and what he doesn't like.  [thumbs up]  I also loved the adult language...refreshing for a change in this day and age.  [thumbs up] [thumbs up]
My thoughts exactly, and a candid language is nice.
Charlie
P.S I think we need to hear more of the "working fine" posts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Offline antss

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2017, 01:46 PM »
I liked the review too, even though I don't like the saw.

Not everyone registers their tools.   I've never registered my tools upon purchase in 20 something years. So it's not likely they know what I own. They'll have records of the ones Ive sent in for service but those are very few and I don't even own most those anymore. 

Not knowing the difference between a miter and a bevel makes me question the source a bit though.

That more people don't come round to say how great and wonderful their Festool _________ is , isn't surprising.  Where do think the term fanboy germinated from
?  I like that this isn't a mutual admiration society.

Offline ScotF

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2017, 01:35 AM »
I came across this a few weeks ago. He has a new one on the TS55 that is good too.

Offline scholar

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2017, 10:46 AM »
Hmm, maybe this is a spoof thread, I don’t know.

I didn’t watch the video throughout, but to my mind picturing this machine in its damaged/modified/dangerous state is inappropriate and irresponsible.  If I lost the blade guard, I would get it repaired.

(I’m an early Kapex adopter and very happy with the machine).

Sorry


Offline ChuckM

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 11:02 AM »
Hmm, maybe this is a spoof thread, I don’t know.

I didn’t watch the video throughout, but to my mind picturing this machine in its damaged/modified/dangerous state is inappropriate and irresponsible.  If I lost the blade guard, I would get it repaired.

(I’m an early Kapex adopter and very happy with the machine).

Sorry

I recall seeing a discussion (forgot where...here?) in which someone was showing a photo of how he used his mtire saw (a Dewalt, I think) on the job site -- with the guard held up at all times with a bungee cord. His argument was that he could see things clearly and could make hundred of cuts much much quicker.

His photo showing the unsafe way of doing things was removed by a moderator subsequently.

In my province, we still have some people driving (in the farming area) not wearing their seatbelts out of poor habits.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:55 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 11:21 AM »
If I lost the blade guard, I would get it repaired.

I believe in the video, he said he'd already gone through 2 of them.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2017, 11:37 AM »
At 7:23ish, he said he normally wouldn't have put the guard on, but..."they made me."

So I suppose the guard is on when he uses this Kapex on the job (as a contractor or an employee).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 11:50 AM by ChuckM »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2017, 11:51 AM »
Had to remove the video. I am sure people can find it if they want to. 



Seth

Offline Gregor

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2017, 09:23 PM »
Had to remove the video. I am sure people can find it if they want to.
Could you please share the reasoning for that decision?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2017, 10:15 PM »
I know that Seth has some other things going on and might not be able to visit and answer but I strongly suspect that the removal is because of modifications to the saw shown in the video including the removal of the manufacturer supplied blade guard as mentioned by others here in this thread.

Peter

Offline MarcV

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2017, 11:13 PM »
I don't understand the reasoning of deleting the video. I posted it to show that not all Kapex burn up prematurely. If I violated some forum rule I apologize. Personally I think that the Kapex problems are not as bad as they appear. I think there is a certain number of all tools that fail prematurely, and those are the people that post about it. Its not a accurate depiction of the tools reliability. If you google any saw such as "dewalt miter saw burn up" you will find complaints. Every saw has people posting about problems. Kapex problems seem worse though because its a $1500 saw and for that money you don't think that should happen. If I had to guess the problems are due to people using extensions cords, not using good outlets, running the saw through the vacuums, and depriving the saw of the amps that it needs, which could lead to premature motor problems. Just my personal guess and I don't have any evidence to back that up.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2017, 11:32 PM »
I don't understand the reasoning of deleting the video. I posted it to show that not all Kapex burn up prematurely. If I violated some forum rule I apologize. Personally I think that the Kapex problems are not as bad as they appear. I think there is a certain number of all tools that fail prematurely, and those are the people that post about it. Its not a accurate depiction of the tools reliability. If you google any saw such as "dewalt miter saw burn up" you will find complaints. Every saw has people posting about problems. Kapex problems seem worse though because its a $1500 saw and for that money you don't think that should happen. If I had to guess the problems are due to people using extensions cords, not using good outlets, running the saw through the vacuums, and depriving the saw of the amps that it needs, which could lead to premature motor problems. Just my personal guess and I don't have any evidence to back that up.

     Yes, as Peter said and as noted in the posts that the video was removed from, it was taken out for showing and condoning operating the saw without the blade guard.

     Otherwise though it is an awesome real life , real use video. And as you say demonstrates that not all Kapex burn up, and that they don't need to be babied, and that they will cut more than just trim. And that Kapex clearly gets    really   used .................  a lot.

   Wish it could left for easy viewing. Thanks for posting it regardless of it's removal.

Seth

     

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2017, 01:01 AM »
If I had to guess the problems are due to people using extensions cords, not using good outlets, running the saw through the vacuums, and depriving the saw of the amps that it needs, which could lead to premature motor problems.

I hope none of these speculated reasons were what caused the Kapex problems we have seen in this Forum. Many mitre saws, not just Kapex, are used under such conditions in real life. I could not remember not using my Dewalt with an extension cord which was sold after I got the Kapex. That saw was at least 6 or 7 years old.

Is there a warning in the manual that says we should not use the Kapex with an extension cord? I have been using mine with an extension cord and will stop the practice if indeed the saw must be plugged directly into a wall socket.

Offline Gregor

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2017, 05:53 AM »
I know that Seth has some other things going on and might not be able to visit and answer but I strongly suspect that the removal is because of modifications to the saw shown in the video including the removal of the manufacturer supplied blade guard as mentioned by others here in this thread.

Along the same reasoning videos that show CMS-TS or CMS-OF (with something else that 1010) in use would also need to be removed as they show use that is not supported by festool.

I question that stance.

Wouldn't it be better to edit the post in question with some big(ger) letter red text warning about the practice in question - preferably with the reasoning about why this is a bad idea? That would IMHO give a better learning result to others than trying to hide the ugly truth of what's going on in the real world.

It can be a good idea to show how things are not to be done: you might concur should you know the
Best ever work security educational for operating forklifts
(WARNING: depicts quite some accidents quite graphicly, splatter movie style)


I'm sure that any forklift driver that saw it will keep the shown do-nots better in memory than what they should have learned from some dry flyer...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:30 AM by Gregor »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2017, 09:18 AM »
Maybe it would be good to show unsafe practices with warnings, maybe not.  Festool has chosen to avoid showing them as much as possible.

In North America Festool only sells and supports the use of the router CMS and their course of action in that case is to add a warning / disclaimer for usage in NA, if a NA source posts the use of other tools in that unit.

Seth

Offline Gregor

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2017, 10:33 AM »
Maybe it would be good to show unsafe practices with warnings, maybe not.  Festool has chosen to avoid showing them as much as possible.
Maybe it would be good to rethink that policy and instead add a warning (citing possibly existing regulations) and a reminder that the Festool Service Department is there for the user to fix such problems quickly and for a reasonable cost.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2017, 11:22 AM »
Maybe it would be good to show unsafe practices with warnings, maybe not.  Festool has chosen to avoid showing them as much as possible.
Maybe it would be good to rethink that policy and instead add a warning (citing possibly existing regulations) and a reminder that the Festool Service Department is there for the user to fix such problems quickly and for a reasonable cost.

Yes, maybe, it's not up to me or Peter. But we can pass it on and make sure Festool knows about the idea.


Seth

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2017, 11:42 AM »
Festool moderators are the last kind of job (paid or unpaid) on earth I would ever take on. [eek]

Offline Cheese

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2017, 11:59 AM »
I have to agree with Gregor 100%.  [thumbs up]

I find it remarkable that the very first time the most powerful visual statement supporting the Kapex is presented on the FOG, the entire video has to be removed because of a small technical hiccup.

I'd think a warning in large red letters used as a header or footer for the video, or even a banner that is run during the video would be sufficient to warn the viewer that Festool does not condone the removal of guards or safety items when using their tools.  [2cents]

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline MarcV

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2017, 02:13 PM »
If I had to guess the problems are due to people using extensions cords, not using good outlets, running the saw through the vacuums, and depriving the saw of the amps that it needs, which could lead to premature motor problems.

I hope none of these speculated reasons were what caused the Kapex problems we have seen in this Forum. Many mitre saws, not just Kapex, are used under such conditions in real life. I could not remember not using my Dewalt with an extension cord which was sold after I got the Kapex. That saw was at least 6 or 7 years old.

Is there a warning in the manual that says we should not use the Kapex with an extension cord? I have been using mine with an extension cord and will stop the practice if indeed the saw must be plugged directly into a wall socket.


I am just basing my speculation on a discussion I saw a while back on instagram. There is a Canadian Carpenter on their that goes by "toolaholic" that talks about amperage loss through extension cords and not optimal power outlets. This loss is magnified when powering the tool through the vacuum because the vacuum is pulling 10-13 amps to run and the Kapex is pulling 13 Amps at the same time. It doesn't mathematically make sense that a normal 15 amp circuit can supply this. It has to be starving the Kapex motor which could lead to premature motor death. I always thought it was odd that the CT vacuums state "To reduce risk of fire, only connect a tool rated 3.7 amperes maximum to this receptacle." To me that means that the Sanders and smaller tools are the only ones designed to be plugged directly into the vacuums. I am not a electrician nor am I an expert on motors so I look forward to responses from people that know much more than me.

Here is the Instagram link to the discussion for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/BElZK4OExFE/

Offline McNally Family

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2017, 02:44 PM »
First let me state that I am not an electrician, so when it comes to the technical aspects of this subject, I rely on those who are.

In the Spring of 2016, I purchased a heavy duty 3-speed metal floor standing model electric fan.   I used it all through the summer to help keep my shop cool, and at times it ran constantly.  I can remember touching the back of the electric motor itself and found it very hot to the touch.  By the end of the summer, it no longer worked, although I could hear the motor trying to make revolutions, with a humming sound, and once by pushing on the blade I could get it to turn.   However after that, it would still hum, but could not turn.

When I investigated the consumer reviews of this fan, I came across someone who had the same problem, and it turned out to be the fact this fan can not be used with any extension cords.  In my case, I had used extension cords, all very heavy duty "yellow" cords, but still classified as extension cords.   Naturally, I then read the owners manual that had come with the fan, and sure enough, there was the extension cord warning.

Long story short, I replaced the fan and now only plug it into a direct plug.  While the fan motor will get warm, it never gets hot anymore, even after extended use on high speed.   My old fan got extremely hot, and just seized from the heat.  I just don't understand the science behind not being able to use an extension cord (even an expensive heavy duty cord), but there you have it!     
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) |  SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sanders RTSC 400 Set, DTSC 400 Basic, ETSC 125 Basic  | Linear Sander LS 130 | Next  Purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2017, 03:20 PM »
Thanks both for sharing the stories.

Could any electricians or EE here please chime in on this?

I have been using my Kapex with the auto switch -- this kind: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63013&cat=1,42401,72660 -- and the vacuum on an extension cord (15amp). I can use both switch cords in separate circuits if it is necessary.

I just checked the manual and found this:

Never use an extension cord that is damaged, including cuts, exposed wires, or bent/missing prongs. Damaged extension cords increase the risk of fire or electric shock.
► Use only extension cords rated for the purpose.
► Use only extension cords rated for the amperage of this tool and the length of the cord. Using too small of an extension cord can cause the cord to overheat.
Extension Cord Ratings
Cord Length
Size (AWG)
<25 Ft.
14
25-50 Ft.
12
50-100 Ft.
10
>100 Ft.
Not recommended

It appears the extension cord advice is about risk of fire or electric shock, but not about potential damage to the motor.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 03:23 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2017, 03:41 PM »
First let me state that I am not an electrician, so when it comes to the technical aspects of this subject, I rely on those who are.

In the Spring of 2016, I purchased a heavy duty 3-speed metal floor standing model electric fan.   I used it all through the summer to help keep my shop cool, and at times it ran constantly.  I can remember touching the back of the electric motor itself and found it very hot to the touch.  By the end of the summer, it no longer worked, although I could hear the motor trying to make revolutions, with a humming sound, and once by pushing on the blade I could get it to turn.   However after that, it would still hum, but could not turn.

When I investigated the consumer reviews of this fan, I came across someone who had the same problem, and it turned out to be the fact this fan can not be used with any extension cords.  In my case, I had used extension cords, all very heavy duty "yellow" cords, but still classified as extension cords.   Naturally, I then read the owners manual that had come with the fan, and sure enough, there was the extension cord warning.

Long story short, I replaced the fan and now only plug it into a direct plug.  While the fan motor will get warm, it never gets hot anymore, even after extended use on high speed.   My old fan got extremely hot, and just seized from the heat.  I just don't understand the science behind not being able to use an extension cord (even an expensive heavy duty cord), but there you have it!   

Here is a simpler alternative explanation, there wasn't enough oil in the bearings of that fan.
Back in the day if a motor used simple bronze bearings the manufacturer would include a convenient way to add oil to the bearing. If that wasn't practical they'd add a felt washer to the shaft that could hold a larger amount of oil to feed the bearing.

Just finished reassembling a fan that had to be dis-assembled in order to add oil to the bearing. Prior to re-oiling the symptoms matched your fan description.

Offline kevinculle

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2017, 03:48 PM »
If using the Kapex offsite fed from my CT26 I will only feed it either directly from a 20A 120V outlet or if an extension cord is needed I only use a 50' 12AWG heavy duty extension cord.  If a 20A circuit is not available I feed the Kapex from a separate 15A circuit than the CT26 and manually control the vac.  In my normal shop setting it is plugged directly into a 20A 120V outlet and chip collection is handled by a stationary dust collector.

Offline McNally Family

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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2017, 09:52 PM »
First let me state that I am not an electrician, so when it comes to the technical aspects of this subject, I rely on those who are.

In the Spring of 2016, I purchased a heavy duty 3-speed metal floor standing model electric fan.   I used it all through the summer to help keep my shop cool, and at times it ran constantly.  I can remember touching the back of the electric motor itself and found it very hot to the touch.  By the end of the summer, it no longer worked, although I could hear the motor trying to make revolutions, with a humming sound, and once by pushing on the blade I could get it to turn.   However after that, it would still hum, but could not turn.

When I investigated the consumer reviews of this fan, I came across someone who had the same problem, and it turned out to be the fact this fan can not be used with any extension cords.  In my case, I had used extension cords, all very heavy duty "yellow" cords, but still classified as extension cords.   Naturally, I then read the owners manual that had come with the fan, and sure enough, there was the extension cord warning.

Long story short, I replaced the fan and now only plug it into a direct plug.  While the fan motor will get warm, it never gets hot anymore, even after extended use on high speed.   My old fan got extremely hot, and just seized from the heat.  I just don't understand the science behind not being able to use an extension cord (even an expensive heavy duty cord), but there you have it!   

Here is a simpler alternative explanation, there wasn't enough oil in the bearings of that fan.
Back in the day if a motor used simple bronze bearings the manufacturer would include a convenient way to add oil to the bearing. If that wasn't practical they'd add a felt washer to the shaft that could hold a larger amount of oil to feed the bearing.

Just finished reassembling a fan that had to be dis-assembled in order to add oil to the bearing. Prior to re-oiling the symptoms matched your fan description.

Your scenario certainly matches the physical symptoms of my original fan.  The question is however, did the overheating of a new fan come from a lack of oil, or did the use of extension cords somehow create the overheating, which then burned off the oil that was there, that then led to the fan seizing?

I went and looked at my new fan (same model as the old), and sure enough, in raised letters, it explicitly states to not use extension cords, which i did  (that will teach me to just plug something in without reviewing the owners manual).  However, I still don't understand the reasoning or science behind the idea of an extension cord damaging an electrical motor (and this was an expensive heavy duty 20amp extension cord of no more than 25ft., I was using).   
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) |  SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sanders RTSC 400 Set, DTSC 400 Basic, ETSC 125 Basic  | Linear Sander LS 130 | Next  Purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 635
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2017, 07:33 AM »
Your scenario certainly matches the physical symptoms of my original fan.  The question is however, did the overheating of a new fan come from a lack of oil, or did the use of extension cords somehow create the overheating, which then burned off the oil that was there, that then led to the fan seizing?

I went and looked at my new fan (same model as the old), and sure enough, in raised letters, it explicitly states to not use extension cords, which i did  (that will teach me to just plug something in without reviewing the owners manual).
However, I still don't understand the reasoning or science behind the idea of an extension cord damaging an electrical motor (and this was an expensive heavy duty 20amp extension cord of no more than 25ft., I was using).
If your extension cord consists of a thick enough (literally, not in the strange AWG sytem where a higher number equals less metal per meter) wire so it dosn't work as a space heater (or a lamp, in case you overdo it) and has a reasonable length there should be zero issues with using one.

The note about not using extension cords usually is to combat people who chain a whole bunch of them together (blissfully ignoring that each connector also introduces some resistance) or simply use a spooled up extension cord when they don't need the whole length.

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html should answer your question about what will effectively reach your load.

I don't know the tolerances for power in the US - but where I live it's 230V +/– 10% so all machines should be able to digest anything between 207 and 253 volts without problems, one would need quite a long correctly (or a short way under-) dimensioned cord to pull the voltage down far enough to cause issues.

So a fan should not die because it's getting some% less V, I would more suspect that it's one of these:
  • One of the windings of the motor simply broke, turning it into an open circuit. Possible in case the field packet is badly made (not dipped so the wires can move individualy) and the machine was exposed to vibration. You can test for this (and the next) by measuring (unplug first!) the resistance of the motor windings.
  • One of the windings of the motor lost insulation, shorted and melted itself open. Same effect as before but with a detour of hearing *puff*, seeing smoke (and possibly a tripped breaker). See above for diagnosis.
  • Same as before, but it melted itself short-circuit. Same as before but should yield a consistently tripping breaker. See above for diagnosis.
  • Or it could be that vibration simply broke a soldered joint, so the power no longer arrives where it should be. A multimeter might answer this.
  • In case it's a 3-phase motor wired with a capacitor to work on a single-phase connection (many fans are, so they don't need brushes): most likely (as they, again, got the cheapest stuff they could source) the cap died so the magnetic field in the motor no longer turns but only oscillates - should be cheaply fixed by replacing the capacitor. You can test for this by manually spinning it without and with power (careful with your fingers in case it decides to start running), in the latter case you'll feel increased resistance against turning it.
  • In case the motor has brushes: possibly they're simple worn.
  • The bearings in it were the cheapest B-grades they could get so these simply gave up, increasing friction till the torque generated by the motor was no longer enough to overcome it. Could be easily tested by manually spinning the (unpowered) fan and, should you find unreasonable resistance, possibly fixed by replacing (or oiling) the bearings.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 07:37 AM by Gregor »

Offline James Biddle

  • Posts: 99
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2017, 09:38 PM »
I know that Seth has some other things going on and might not be able to visit and answer but I strongly suspect that the removal is because of modifications to the saw shown in the video including the removal of the manufacturer supplied blade guard as mentioned by others here in this thread.

Peter

So why leave the thread when no one can see the intent of the OP?

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 532
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Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2017, 09:46 PM »
Your scenario certainly matches the physical symptoms of my original fan.  The question is however, did the overheating of a new fan come from a lack of oil, or did the use of extension cords somehow create the overheating, which then burned off the oil that was there, that then led to the fan seizing?

I went and looked at my new fan (same model as the old), and sure enough, in raised letters, it explicitly states to not use extension cords, which i did  (that will teach me to just plug something in without reviewing the owners manual).
However, I still don't understand the reasoning or science behind the idea of an extension cord damaging an electrical motor (and this was an expensive heavy duty 20amp extension cord of no more than 25ft., I was using).
If your extension cord consists of a thick enough (literally, not in the strange AWG sytem where a higher number equals less metal per meter) wire so it dosn't work as a space heater (or a lamp, in case you overdo it) and has a reasonable length there should be zero issues with using one.

The note about not using extension cords usually is to combat people who chain a whole bunch of them together (blissfully ignoring that each connector also introduces some resistance) or simply use a spooled up extension cord when they don't need the whole length.

http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html should answer your question about what will effectively reach your load.

I don't know the tolerances for power in the US - but where I live it's 230V +/– 10% so all machines should be able to digest anything between 207 and 253 volts without problems, one would need quite a long correctly (or a short way under-) dimensioned cord to pull the voltage down far enough to cause issues.

So a fan should not die because it's getting some% less V, I would more suspect that it's one of these:
  • One of the windings of the motor simply broke, turning it into an open circuit. Possible in case the field packet is badly made (not dipped so the wires can move individualy) and the machine was exposed to vibration. You can test for this (and the next) by measuring (unplug first!) the resistance of the motor windings.
  • One of the windings of the motor lost insulation, shorted and melted itself open. Same effect as before but with a detour of hearing *puff*, seeing smoke (and possibly a tripped breaker). See above for diagnosis.
  • Same as before, but it melted itself short-circuit. Same as before but should yield a consistently tripping breaker. See above for diagnosis.
  • Or it could be that vibration simply broke a soldered joint, so the power no longer arrives where it should be. A multimeter might answer this.
  • In case it's a 3-phase motor wired with a capacitor to work on a single-phase connection (many fans are, so they don't need brushes): most likely (as they, again, got the cheapest stuff they could source) the cap died so the magnetic field in the motor no longer turns but only oscillates - should be cheaply fixed by replacing the capacitor. You can test for this by manually spinning it without and with power (careful with your fingers in case it decides to start running), in the latter case you'll feel increased resistance against turning it.
  • In case the motor has brushes: possibly they're simple worn.
  • The bearings in it were the cheapest B-grades they could get so these simply gave up, increasing friction till the torque generated by the motor was no longer enough to overcome it. Could be easily tested by manually spinning the (unpowered) fan and, should you find unreasonable resistance, possibly fixed by replacing (or oiling) the bearings.


Well, I asked for reasoning and science, and got it!  Thanks for the in-depth response!
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) |  SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sanders RTSC 400 Set, DTSC 400 Basic, ETSC 125 Basic  | Linear Sander LS 130 | Next  Purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Naildrivingman

  • Posts: 405
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2017, 07:45 AM »
I recently sent my Kapex in for service due for armature failure. I asked for an FT tech to call me and I was called. I asked and was assured that the saw will function fine on a 15A circuit when run through the vacuum, so long as the motor is not “overloaded”.  When I asked how one would know if the motor was overloaded, the tech answered my question with a question: “What do you normally cut with the saw?”  I replied that I routinely cut 5/4 material, mostly poplar as the hardest; I allow the saw to achieve full RPM prior to engaging the material; and I avoid short burst repetitive cuts.  The tech said that I will be fine on 15A, but if possible I should seek out 20A.  I left it at that, but I have to say that advice leaves me scratching my head a bit.

If I can find a 20A circuit and use no more than a 25’ cord, that is my preference; otherwise I plug into the nearest 15A I can find.  When I inquired about the warning on the CT, the tech said that warning is placed there to limit the use of “other” tools in conjunction with the CT.  I don’t know enough about electricity to comment, but I think this rationale is more of a CYA for warrantee purposes regarding CT failure due to use of “other” tools.

Suffice to say, I have no intentions of running the saw and vacuum on independent power circuits based on the information I received from the FT tech.
Dance with who brung ya...

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 336
Re: Best Kapex review I've seen
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2017, 08:49 AM »
After following this thread, I decided to change the way I used my auto switch with the Kapex and the shop vac (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=63013&cat=1,42401,72660)

To play safe, I now use the 15 to 30 amp set-up (shown on the right in the image below):

http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/Woodworking/Assorted/03J6210v1b.jpg
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 09:01 AM by ChuckM »