Author Topic: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery  (Read 26144 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
I've been curious about noise reducing headphones and how effective they might be with woodworking machinery.  As it turns out, I read this week that Bose just came out with their latest model, the QC 35, so I decided to read a few on-line reviews of this new product.  All the reviews I read gave the QC 35's very high marks.  Apparently, Bose is considered to have the best noise canceling technology and supposedly, the QC 35's are the best of the best. So having absolutely no previous exposure to noise canceling headphones, I decided to give the QC 35's a try.

   I tried the headphones with my ETS EC 150/3 and my CT26. I have no idea if my expectations were realistic or not, but I have to say I was somewhat disappointed with the noise canceling effect.  Without music, I could clearly hear the machinery.  The noise canceling effect was a little less effective than my SensGard SG-31 hearing protection which I typically use. But of course, the SensGard cannot play music.  With music, I became less aware of the remaining machinery noise as I turned up the volume, but at low volume or soft musical passages, that ambient noise was still there. Naturally, it was most obvious during the pause between songs.

   The sound quality of the music itself was, however, very satisfying. Admittedly, I am not an expert on sound quality, but I was very happy with the QC 35's in that regard. The wireless bluetooth works quite well and was extremely easy to pair with my iPhone.

   Again, I have no idea if my expectation were unrealistic, but at $374.50 including tax, I was hoping for more.  I believe I get a very similar listening experience with my LG bluetooth ear buds under over the ear hearing protection, so I'm considering returning the QC 35's.

   Does anyone have any other relevant experiences with noise canceling technology? Is there something better out there than Bose products? How do others listen to music while working with machinery?

   Thanks.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


six-point socket

  • Guest
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2016, 02:48 PM »
Hi!

I think the short answer is that those are not meant to be used around machinery or the like. They are supposed to cancel/reduce noise when using public transportation (subway, bus, train, airplane...) and when sitting in stations, airports and the like. Nothing of that comes close to running machines in a workshop. And, they're also not hearing protection - they're headphones.

Bose is kind of an industry leader when it comes to noise canceling technology, but I can't stand their "sound" - I'm more of a "monitor" headphones guy.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the distraction by music that sits directly in/over my ear while working - but if I was going to do that, and if I wanted a quality sound experience I'd go with in-ear buds from Shure and custom molding (otoplastik). Again, that is not hearing protection.

Personally, when working I have a job site radio running - and when using machinery I concentrate on that and don't want/need to hear music.

For hearing protection I chose 3M Peltor products. They do make professional noise canceling communication-headsets, I don't know if you can hook them up to a stereo/iDevice... But that would be another industry leader :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 02:54 PM by six-point socket »

Offline Steve-Rice

  • Posts: 291
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 03:59 PM »
Thanks, Oliver.  I appreciate your feedback,

Steve

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 733
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 04:32 PM »
I don't think its the job of any noise canceling headphone to completely remove all noise just to quiet it enough for protection. That said I don't like the sound of the Bose units especially for the price but did opt for the new Samsung Level pro BT wireless. They let enough ambient sound in while working so you can hear problems and sound good. I bought them just for shop use and the occasional bit of air travel. They're for the mundane days that involve a lot sanding. I use a Note 4 currently and with the pairing have had no issues.

John

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 04:34 PM »
Noise cancelling is active. Other blocking units are passive.
Ideally both would be best, but that would likely be active after the passive.
There is a bandwidth that the active part works over, so some noise will come through and more at the higher frequencies.

Secondly noise blocking cuts out somewhere in the 20-35 dB range. And this is even for whispers through to jet engines.

Active cancellation peaks out somewhere in the 100dB(A) area.so anything loader will not be cancelled. So 110dB of machinery - 100dB (cancellation) is ~109DB.

Ear muffs with music drivers, and foam plugs in the ears work well.
Or in-ear drivers, with muffs.
Or foam in-ear and muffs that have an amplying switch like the Dillon jobs.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2557
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 05:12 PM »
In the Untidy Shop I use Sthill Professional ear muffs - no music, no noise cancellation - just very efficient noise protection.

On the mower I use one of two ear muff radio sets, one is an Hasqvanna FM model. Great radio, not so efficient at noise cancelation. The other set, cheep Chinese made from a hardware/big box store (the Doggy one if you are Aussie), has AM/FM and active noise cancellation. These I like.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 05:16 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1720
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2016, 05:26 PM »
Like others said, while Bose is clearly on the top end of noise cancelling headphones, they don't cut out sufficient sound to be considered hearing protection. Just that alone makes them unsuitable for the shop. Protect your hearing first and get the music second.

When mowing the lawn, I have used regular wired in-ear buds with over-ear hearing protection muffs and that cuts the noise to the appropriate level (although not as good as ear plugs). However, bluetooth in-ear buds don't work well this way as the muffs tend to at least periodically block the bluetooth signal. This has always been the downside for bluetooth for me; maintaining an uninterrupted connection to the source.

I also think that music tends to distract too much from the task at hand. The priorities are safety, hearing protection, and elimination of errors in the work. So, while it's nice to listen to music I do that when I'm not using machinery and doing tasks that don't require my undivided attention in the shop.
Randy

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2557
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2016, 05:37 PM »
. . .

When mowing the lawn, . . . .

I also think that music tends to distract too much from the task at hand.

The priorities are safety, hearing protection, and elimination of errors in the work. So, while it's nice to listen to music I do that when I'm not using machinery and doing tasks that don't require my undivided attention in the shop.

But without music how does one dance with the Zero Turn mower around and between the trees?  [smile]

On the mower I find music actually allows me to feel as one with the mower and the task at hand. In the shop however, I have background music down low, as this allows for better concentration on difficult or intricate tasks. However if I am in for a long sanding session, the volume goes up so I can hear the shop radio whilst still wearing the ear muffs.


@grbmds
« Last Edit: June 12, 2016, 05:42 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1720
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2016, 06:00 PM »


But without music how does one dance with the Zero Turn mower around and between the trees?  [smile]


Music on the mower is definitely a plus and, since it's a rather mindless, repetitive task, doesn't distract me. Thus, I do listen to music many times. Never tried "dancing" between and around trees, though, but will try it next time. Music in the shop, though, is not really for me as I've made a few mistakes measuring because I was listening rather than concentrating.
Randy

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 442
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2016, 11:17 PM »
In the Untidy Shop I use Sthill Professional ear muffs - no music, no noise cancellation - just very efficient noise protection.



This is exactly what I use in the shop, and they work!  We also use them when mowing because we use a diesel engine mower and if you don't use hearing protection, your ears will be ringing when your done.

I do like the BOSE when I am walking however, but keep in mind, your sweat will disintegrate the cushion pads over time (the local BOSE store will sell you a replacement set).
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: Something else Metric |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2016, 11:27 PM »
. . .

When mowing the lawn, . . . .

I also think that music tends to distract too much from the task at hand.

The priorities are safety, hearing protection, and elimination of errors in the work. So, while it's nice to listen to music I do that when I'm not using machinery and doing tasks that don't require my undivided attention in the shop.

But without music how does one dance with the Zero Turn mower around and between the trees?  [smile]

On the mower I find music actually allows me to feel as one with the mower and the task at hand. In the shop however, I have background music down low, as this allows for better concentration on difficult or intricate tasks. However if I am in for a long sanding session, the volume goes up so I can hear the shop radio whilst still wearing the ear muffs.


@grbmds

Not everyone appreciate bluegrass

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 528
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2016, 07:48 AM »
For hearing protection I like many woodworkers use the 3M Peltor 105 earmuffs.  These are cheap (currently $18 on AMZ but can be had for less during sales), provide a noise reduction rating (NRR) of 30 db (difficult to get much higher for anything close to the price range), and are basic but reasonably comfortable.  They effectively dampen just about any loud sound you might generate in the shop, but also allow you to hear quieter sounds (e.g. you forgot to take off the muffs and someone is calling your name).  There are many muffs that are more expensive (possibly due to fancier headbands) but have lower NRRs.

When I absolutely need music, I just wear earbuds (with the wire running under my topmost layer) under the muffs.
"What you have to do tomorrow, do today.  What you have to do today, do now."  - a wise grandfather who was clearly talking about purchasing Festools

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3326
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2016, 08:45 AM »
I use these Howard Leight earmuffs.  You can connect up an iPod or smartphone via cable.  No Bluetooth, sorry to say.  30 dB noise reduction; clips ambient noise at 82 dB; built-in microphones so you can hear colleagues or machinery without removing them.  They're not Bose audio quality, but quite serviceable.
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1720
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2016, 12:43 PM »
The best NRR are the Spark Plugs foam earplugs. I use those when I use the planer, table saw, and jointer with my dust collector. The NRR is 32. They are relatively cheap but not, of course, reusable. I have the Pelter muffs and some other things which are easy to take on and off for the lower noise producers like my Festool vac and power tools. So far, the only way to listen to music while using hearing protection is with wired earbud or ear muffs as indicated but @Sparktrician. Bluetooth has not given consistent performance based on my trials to this point. Still think the best is not to distract yourself while using power tools.
Randy

Offline bglenden

  • Posts: 1
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2016, 12:03 PM »
Sorry for reviving an old thread, but this is the one that shows up on google.

I actually find the QC35's are incredibly good for some machines (to the extent that I'm not sure if they are on without looking, potential safety hazard), and not so good for others. Presumably this depends on whether the noise output of the machine is in the range that the active noise cancellation is tuned for or not (airplanes I imagine).

Bose Aviation headsets are very well regarded. I don't know if the noise reduction specs are the same as for the consumer units or not, but have made a personal decision that they are OK for the shop (I can't find any actual data by googling). My main concern is whether dust will kill them - time will tell!

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 636
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2016, 03:48 PM »
I use these Howard Leight earmuffs.  You can connect up an iPod or smartphone via cable.  No Bluetooth, sorry to say.  30 dB noise reduction; clips ambient noise at 82 dB; built-in microphones so you can hear colleagues or machinery without removing them.  They're not Bose audio quality, but quite serviceable.

I have the Bose ones that aren't wireless.  Great for constant low-frequency noise.  They work well in the office to cut out the AC and other ambient machine noise.  Music is required to cut out some people talking.  They are not hearing protection.

I've tried Sordin headphones in the shop (briefly).  You can hear well, and when you use a tool like the Kapex, it clips the peak at 80 dB.  Music performance is horrible.

I currently use Plantronics Back Beat Fits or a wired headphone under a 3M hearing protector.  The advantage of the Plantronics ones is that you can conveniently pause your music when your family members come up and start talking to you.

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 67
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2016, 04:51 PM »
I began wearing the Bose noise canceling earbuds on my motorcycle during the summer. Even though they are not meant to be hearing protection devices, my (and others) impression is that they are more effective than wearing ear plugs. When the active noise cancellation is turned on the effect is almost magical, the wind noise that makes it through is slight, and the engine noise is reduced to almost nothing as well. What I have is the wired version and I didn't use them connected to anything.

I've not tried them in a workshop though, I did try them once when mowing with my lawn tractor, they worked, but I think ear plugs or muffs do just as well or perhaps better in that setting. The over-the-ear-type that are wireless would probably be better than my earbuds in a workshop, but those don't fit under a helmet very well.

Offline Jimmy FineCut

  • Posts: 274
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2016, 10:18 AM »
I use the Bose sound link ae2 wireless over ear headphones with built in bluetooth in the workshop and love them.

Connected to both my sound system and iPhone they work great, meaning I don't miss calls, messages and I can work and chat on the phone at the same time!

They are not the sound cancelling ones, but still do take the edge off the machine or tool. And in fact I still like to be able to hear and think it good to still be able to hear the tool or machine.

One of the best buys I made last year  [big grin]


Offline miclee15

  • Posts: 20
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2016, 02:03 PM »
For those looking for something with the best fit, go to your local hearing aid store (not a chain) and get a set of custom moulded ones.  I use the ones by Westone and I can wear these all day and forget they are in my ear.   I tried the foams, but just found they never fit or would fall out of my ear at the worst time.  You can get them in all sorts of colors too.  I have a orange pair I use for sporting clays and clear when I'm wood working or doing anything else around the house...like the girls yelling at each other to get out of the bathroom.....

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 636
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2016, 03:41 PM »
Would you mind letting us know what the ballpark cost was?  I looked into this and I thought they were in the > $1k per pair range.  Am I misinformed?

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1720
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2016, 04:44 PM »
For those looking for something with the best fit, go to your local hearing aid store (not a chain) and get a set of custom moulded ones.  I use the ones by Westone and I can wear these all day and forget they are in my ear.   I tried the foams, but just found they never fit or would fall out of my ear at the worst time.  You can get them in all sorts of colors too.  I have a orange pair I use for sporting clays and clear when I'm wood working or doing anything else around the house...like the girls yelling at each other to get out of the bathroom.....

You can have covers made for your in-ear headphones, but they don't have a NRR because they are not specifically made too that purpose nor have been tested for that purpose.
Randy

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2016, 07:36 PM »
I use the Bose sound link ae2 wireless over ear headphones with built in bluetooth in the workshop and love them.

Connected to both my sound system and iPhone they work great, meaning I don't miss calls, messages and I can work and chat on the phone at the same time!

They are not the sound cancelling ones, but still do take the edge off the machine or tool. And in fact I still like to be able to hear and think it good to still be able to hear the tool or machine.

One of the best buys I made last year  [big grin]

(Attachment Link)

To protect your ears those are a joke, I have them and I would never, ever suggest those for a wood shop in any form for hearing protection, if you use hearing protection with them then the sound is awful. They offer zero protection and in my shop, well I would go deaf in 3 months using them. I know, I own them. For the sake of your safety dont use those in your shop, its simply not going to protect your ears in any way and adding ear buds with them just takes away the point of them muffling the nice sound they actually do give.

I have over 50 different hearing protection muffs and tried them all, but as far as Bluetooth type there are slim pickings only about 3 that are even worth considering, IMHO. Of those by far the best Bluetooth type  and I mean not even close are these linked below. Factor in cost and performance and so far I cant find anything remotely as good, so much so I have three pair:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-WorkTunes-Protector-Technology-90542-3DC/dp/B0146A4SWA



The only others that I would even recommend(I stopped recommending the ION Audio brand, I had issues) for a shop setting are going to be in the 150.00 to 400.00 cost range plus, similar to what I used on the runways at O'hare airport. The WS 100 are my second choice if you must be able to talk to others, but I like the cheaper units listed above better. I returned the WS 100 pretty fast as for 385.00 they just were no better and I work alone so for me not worth it.:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DHVXF2E/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=ur2&tag=nn-txt-20&linkId=ARBJ5MO4IHDEQAMQ





« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 08:53 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline RickyL

  • Posts: 68
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2016, 08:51 PM »
I used Seinheisser momentums. With an ETS and CT26 on I can hear a little bit of noise without music. Infact, if I've switched the CT26 to manual I leave it on and don't realise until theres a break in the music.
TXS, TSC 55REB, CTL Midi, BHC 18, C18Li, T18+3, PSC 420EB, Kapex KS120 EB, OF1400, EHL 65 EQ, ETS EC150/5, RO150 FEQ

Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4594
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2016, 09:00 PM »
Replacing one sound louder at the ear to cover a loud noise does not protect the ear at all and that is EXACTLY what the music type headphones are doing. It's not protection in the least. 

I also have two pair of different Senns and they are fantastic! I even used them for a short time in the shop until I realized all I was doing was cranking them up doing what I tell my kids not to do.

Music type headphones simply do not save the ear drum. Just put them on and dont run music or sound through them, one second of that and using a loud machine, even an ETS and CT on low will prove they dont do a darn thing.

Once you get a true hearing projection with a speaker for sound, whether Bluetooth or not, I bet you won't ever go back to  regular headphones( Senn's, Bose or whatever) in the shop again.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 636
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2016, 09:07 PM »
There's a handful of recommendations for different things in this thread.  Some are looking at things for hearing protection, others for sound masking. The Bose headphones discussed here aren't intended to be hearing protection.  They do not have a NRR (noise reduction rating). 

Masking loud offensive noises with pleasant noises still results in damage to your hearing.  The structures in your ear don't differentiate.  Exposure to noise over some set limit (ex. 80 dB) for some particular time (ex. 8 hrs) over long periods may result in permanent threshold shifts, aka "hearing loss".

Working with sound masking headphones that do not have a NRR is asking for trouble, in my opinion.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2016, 10:40 PM »
There's a handful of recommendations for different things in this thread.  Some are looking at things for hearing protection, others for sound masking. The Bose headphones discussed here aren't intended to be hearing protection.  They do not have a NRR (noise reduction rating). 

Masking loud offensive noises with pleasant noises still results in damage to your hearing.  The structures in your ear don't differentiate.  Exposure to noise over some set limit (ex. 80 dB) for some particular time (ex. 8 hrs) over long periods may result in permanent threshold shifts, aka "hearing loss".

Working with sound masking headphones that do not have a NRR is asking for trouble, in my opinion.

With the addition of a couple of scientific/medical references you can remove the "in my opinion" part. That would be a good thing to improve the general conclusion of the thread. Other than that you are "spot on".

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 67
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2016, 08:01 AM »
Before I bought my noise canceling ear buds I tried to research whether the noise canceling directed more energy to the ears than just the noise, and I didn't find much information. The scientific theory is sound, if you produce a exact opposite wave then the waves do cancel each other out. Put the buds or canceling earphones on, and flip the switch that turns on the electronics and most ambient sounds disappear, the effect is startling. In theory, zero sound is zero sound (less sound actually) whether you get there by actively canceling out the wave-form or blocking it with dampening foam.

I did experiment with listening to music while on the moto, and the sound level I needed from the player to hear the music well wasn't different moving than it was stopped. As I said earlier though, I typically use them not plugged into a music source.

 I have tinnitus from years of various exposure to high noise environments, I find the buds are more effective at blocking the perceived noise than 33db foam ear plugs when on the moto, and I have fewer after-effects like increased "ringing" post ride.

Bose does sell headsets  specifically designed for high noise environments that use the electronic cancelation, but they are much pricier than the consumer sets.

All that said, and has been pointed out, these aren't sold to be hearing protection devices, and there is no spec provided by Bose as to the actual amount of noise reduction or the frequencies they block. I believe they do provide specs on the commercial devices, however.
In my shop experiment, my perception was that the noise from the machinery (table saw + vac) was reduced (vs no protection), but my regular ear muff protectors seemed to do equally well. Since the muffs are less fussy to fit than wired earbuds, I've not pursued that any further.

YMMV.


« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 08:03 AM by pixelated »

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 636
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2016, 01:40 PM »

Working with sound masking headphones that do not have a NRR is asking for trouble, in my opinion.

With the addition of a couple of scientific/medical references you can remove the "in my opinion" part. That would be a good thing to improve the general conclusion of the thread. Other than that you are "spot on".

I've been out of that field for over a decade, and too lazy to look anything up the literature to see if the conclusions changed since then.

Offline Jimmy FineCut

  • Posts: 274
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2017, 09:07 AM »
I use the Bose sound link ae2 wireless over ear headphones with built in bluetooth in the workshop and love them.

Connected to both my sound system and iPhone they work great, meaning I don't miss calls, messages and I can work and chat on the phone at the same time!

They are not the sound cancelling ones, but still do take the edge off the machine or tool. And in fact I still like to be able to hear and think it good to still be able to hear the tool or machine.

One of the best buys I made last year  [big grin]

(Attachment Link)

To protect your ears those are a joke, I have them and I would never, ever suggest those for a wood shop in any form for hearing protection, if you use hearing protection with them then the sound is awful. They offer zero protection and in my shop, well I would go deaf in 3 months using them. I know, I own them. For the sake of your safety dont use those in your shop, its simply not going to protect your ears in any way and adding ear buds with them just takes away the point of them muffling the nice sound they actually do give.

I have over 50 different hearing protection muffs and tried them all, but as far as Bluetooth type there are slim pickings only about 3 that are even worth considering, IMHO. Of those by far the best Bluetooth type  and I mean not even close are these linked below. Factor in cost and performance and so far I cant find anything remotely as good, so much so I have three pair:

https://www.amazon.com/3M-WorkTunes-Protector-Technology-90542-3DC/dp/B0146A4SWA

(Attachment Link)

The only others that I would even recommend(I stopped recommending the ION Audio brand, I had issues) for a shop setting are going to be in the 150.00 to 400.00 cost range plus, similar to what I used on the runways at O'hare airport. The WS 100 are my second choice if you must be able to talk to others, but I like the cheaper units listed above better. I returned the WS 100 pretty fast as for 385.00 they just were no better and I work alone so for me not worth it.:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DHVXF2E/?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=ur2&tag=nn-txt-20&linkId=ARBJ5MO4IHDEQAMQ

(Attachment Link)

Just to clarify @Dovetail65 I only use these for certain jobs and don't use them on bigger machines as yes like you say they have zero protection.

They make sanding a whole lot more enjoyable thats for sure!

Other than that they are banging headphones in my opinion.


Offline waterloomarc

  • Posts: 104
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2017, 10:13 AM »
I use the Peltor 105's as well. I keep a few throughout the shop. I guess I'm old school but I just crank up the tunes loud enough to hear through the ear muffs. Really the only time I listen to music is when I'm sanding anyway, anything else I don't seem to have the mental capacity to do the two things at once anyway!

I do like the Bluetooth aspect though for not missing calls. It never fails that I can wait all day for a call but fire up some machines for 10 minutes and that's when it will come through.

Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2017, 04:47 PM »
Personally not a fan of the Bose headphones, I returned mine. Good at reducing droning sound but not higher frequencies and the quality of sound left a lot to wish for. I would not consider using them in my shop.

I did a little hack to enable listening to music in the shop while doing menial tasks such as sanding down 100+ interior doors for a new coat of paint...















I picked up a pair of old style Koss headphones, a decent pair for chump change. I then encased them in a Pair of 3M/Peltor X4A which is a pretty high dB rated "slim style" pair with a more dense foam inside than the regular pairs.
I can run an FM radio/MP3, my iPhone or for the most part my tiny iPod Shuffle tethered to the ear protectors. 

The sound is actually unexpectedly good from the Koss earphones when encased in the Peltor ear protectors. I use them when sanding drywall, general sanding or other menial tasks at the workshop. I would not play music while working with routers or table saws and I don't talk on the phone while I am working so I am fine with this set up.

The quality of sound actually surpasses the Bose QC 25 unit I had. I have done the same with another pair of Peltors (with Sennheiser phones in them) and I have an older pair of Peltor with FM radio which is ok too but we have poor reception in the work shop so I prefer MP3-players.

I have tried Howard Leigh (passive with phone jack) and newer Zekler with AUX input but the EC standard 85dB cutoff level is a joke - it takes no consideration to source level rendering it unusable as a weak recording/source material or FM source becomes inaudible even at the highest available level on the headphones. I prefer my own cut off point thank you very much and the inserted KOSS and Senn's allow me to adjust accordingly. :) 
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2017, 11:58 AM »
These have a true metric of a safety NR of 22 with the rubber sleeves and 27 with the foam.
http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/earphones/hd5.html

Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2017, 03:47 PM »
Holmz: those actually don't look to bad. 

For the most part I use ear plugs on a string, the kind that sits a little deeper in ear and that are made out of silicone and not foam. They are my preferred choice as I generally find ear phones a bit "clammy".

For the sanding I do with the ETS EC 150 I can get by, easily, with any Sony/HTC ear plugs with music running. The shells on the Peltor ear protectors can and do resonate or "drone" when I have been sanding down doors, to the point it is annoying. The earplugs don't do that.

The Peltor pair I modded is nice to have in the workshop when me or the other guys are running heavier machinery.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline RickyL

  • Posts: 68
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2017, 06:42 PM »
Replacing one sound louder at the ear to cover a loud noise does not protect the ear at all and that is EXACTLY what the music type headphones are doing. It's not protection in the least. 

I also have two pair of different Senns and they are fantastic! I even used them for a short time in the shop until I realized all I was doing was cranking them up doing what I tell my kids not to do.

Music type headphones simply do not save the ear drum. Just put them on and dont run music or sound through them, one second of that and using a loud machine, even an ETS and CT on low will prove they dont do a darn thing.

Once you get a true hearing projection with a speaker for sound, whether Bluetooth or not, I bet you won't ever go back to  regular headphones( Senn's, Bose or whatever) in the shop again.

Even without music I cannot hear the extractor or most tools. I actually think this is more dangerous, as in leaving equipment running because you cannot hear it. The issue is I like listening to music when I work.
TXS, TSC 55REB, CTL Midi, BHC 18, C18Li, T18+3, PSC 420EB, Kapex KS120 EB, OF1400, EHL 65 EQ, ETS EC150/5, RO150 FEQ

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2017, 09:28 PM »
Holmz: those actually don't look to bad. 

For the most part I use ear plugs on a string, the kind that sits a little deeper in ear and that are made out of silicone and not foam. They are my preferred choice as I generally find ear phones a bit "clammy".

For the sanding I do with the ETS EC 150 I can get by, easily, with any Sony/HTC ear plugs with music running. The shells on the Peltor ear protectors can and do resonate or "drone" when I have been sanding down doors, to the point it is annoying. The earplugs don't do that.

The Peltor pair I modded is nice to have in the workshop when me or the other guys are running heavier machinery.

Yes Henrik those models silicon are the best, but the $60 ones does the business for reducing noise. The only issue is that the cord needs to be run inside the shirt to keep it out of the way.

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 56
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2017, 12:35 PM »
I would never wear corded headphones in the shop, even if I ran the cord under my shirt or like that.

 I have several pairs of ear muffs in the shop and also boxes of foamies in several locations. 

Last year I purchased custom in the ear fitted electronic shooting protection, wow that was EXPENSIVE but I now use them in the shop all day and love it.  I can play music in the shop and these ear plugs amplify the sound and clip all sound at 80db by 30NRR, the only negative is that any sound lower than 80db is amplified to 80db but I have a fairly quiet shop since its just me.  But some very quiet tools are actually amplified, luckily there is a super easy to get to on/off switch and then its very comfortable total silence.

I didn't buy these for working in the shop, I bought them for my other hobby which is shooting, they are great for that and I find I now wear them in the shop and also doing yard work.   When I say EXPENSIVE I mean it, more than Festool even.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 03:20 PM »
Replacing one sound louder at the ear to cover a loud noise does not protect the ear at all and that is EXACTLY what the music type headphones are doing. It's not protection in the least. 

I also have two pair of different Senns and they are fantastic! I even used them for a short time in the shop until I realized all I was doing was cranking them up doing what I tell my kids not to do.

Music type headphones simply do not save the ear drum. Just put them on and dont run music or sound through them, one second of that and using a loud machine, even an ETS and CT on low will prove they dont do a darn thing.

Once you get a true hearing projection with a speaker for sound, whether Bluetooth or not, I bet you won't ever go back to  regular headphones( Senn's, Bose or whatever) in the shop again.

Even without music I cannot hear the extractor or most tools. I actually think this is more dangerous, as in leaving equipment running because you cannot hear it. The issue is I like listening to music when I work.

I think most, if not all, in this thread agree that drowning noise with noise is not the objective... If you have not tried earphones that actually attenuate noise even while not playing music you need to get out more.
I think it is as simple as horses for courses and for roughly 75% of my work (which runs from A-Z and back again in diversity) I get by, easily, with good ear plugs, small ones like the ones mentioned earlier in the thread.

I cherish my hearing and I am - like so many others - a bit of an audiophile and would _never_ risk my hearing. I am turning 45 and I still have very acute hearing despite being in this trade for the last twenty years.

Many people don't have a deeper understanding of dB and sound pressure in relation to the frequency range and the inherent dangers of _some_ of them. I have learnt some about it from a friend who is a renowned psycho acoustic researcher and who knows more about human hearing than, probably, all of the woodworking forum members combined.  There is noise that can kill your ears swiftly and abruptly in no time and noise that doesn't do much at all even over a longer period - though sound pressure levels and exposure are exactly the same. All noise is not created equal and some is simply put, not even affecting the ear drums adversely much at all despite a high sound pressure level.

Knowledge is power and caution is key.


Some things I would never expose myself too but for a lot of the tasks as mentioned earlier in the thread light protection suffices - with margin to spare. I seldom use heavier ear protection but I have them in the work shop and one pair in the field kit and I definitely use them when I am in a situation that demands it. I have even used both silicone plugs and Peltors combined while watching some guys sandblasting a huge door - it was one of the worst types of noise I have ever been subjected too - jet engine type roar on a reflective surface in a confined space from a few meters away and still there were a few guys that had NO hearing protection and were looking on - playing tough and grinning away... I really pity them, it was as stupid as it gets. [scared]

Mikeyr:
As you can see in the photos there is no cord running under shirt with this simple hack. I hate cords. I do feel it is a bit bulky at times but I have the light option of having the iPod shuffle clipped to my glasses with a short corded pair of earphones that only run from ear to ear - they are my favourite. :)

Which fitted earphones did you get? I am interested in getting a pair myself, I value my hearing and feeling unrestricted and if the solution is great I don't mind shelling out for it. :)

Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Skill Builder

  • Posts: 2
Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2017, 04:16 PM »
Have a look at those made by JSP they have a lot of different grades for different pitches.

Re: Bose QC35 Noise Reducing Headphones and Woodworking Machinery
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2017, 03:33 PM »
Will check out JSP, thanks!
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.