Author Topic: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)  (Read 6955 times)

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Offline BigfootBuilder

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Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« on: May 31, 2017, 02:13 AM »
Got one of these fangled Carvex jiggy's a couple of weeks ago and wanted to put my thoughts here and see what comes back in terms of others' experiences.

Overview:

Beats my old bosch in most regards. Cuts straighter, lighter, DE, strobes are cool, splinter guard is handy, release mechanism sucks, blade changing a pita, and see below.

The good:

DE
The sliding power buttons are handy so as not to hold the trigger the whole time.
Strobes
Attachments allowing for all of their this's and that's.

The bad and questionable: (I'm highly critical of tool design, and designs in general, but especially of a $400 jigsaw that I also have to spend another $230 on attachments for just to cut a darn angle, and for a $630 jigsaw, I'm left feeling very underwhelmed.)

-The d-handle is too thin for comfort. I have big hands but this had to be an issue for others.
-About 1/4 of the time when I press the trigger on the handle, NOTHING HAPPENS! It does not turn on. I can re-press it and it will come on, but a couple presses later and it won't. ??? Did I get a dud?
-The mechanism that senses forward movement to kick up the motor on "A" needs more sensitivity. Seems like I have to press a little too hard to get it to kick to full speed. Alongside that, there is no option for full speed without the auto start, I.e. you can't start at "6." ?
-Now this is major-while in the store the guy at the counter was having a hard time inserting a blade (he's a festool user himself), and I was thinking to myself "dude just lemme try," and he eventually got one in. I chalked it up to him not understanding the insertion mechanism. Now after using it for a couple of days I also am having an extremely challenging time getting blades in and out. Yes, they are brand new "carvex" blades and everything. Have the base off etc, and practically have to stand on the thing to get them to pop in. Bad batch of blades? Bad tool? Again, and for real, W.T.F???
-The blade stabilizing mechanism seems odd. Maybe I just don't understand it? The guy in the store showed me how to adjust it, and why, Festool, could you not have figured out a nook or cranny to store the allen key required to adjust that thing???
-The barrel handle version allows the cord attachment to 90 up, why not also on the d-handle? Sometimes (like a lot) you need to use these things in close quarters. Why not add that very small and very useful feature?
-re: the circle cutting jig-it needs to more securely key and lock into the base plate! It's probably great in most situations, but I was radiusing some lattice today and the slightest up/downwards pressure away from the plate pulls the saw out of the jig.aybe a non-traditional use, but still I feel like it should be a much more robust attachment.
-The angle base sure doesn't give you much fence to go on. Seems ridiculous that you only get half of the fence to ride on with the little butterfly wing design.
-I think there's more but I'll start there.

I bought this thing for a jigsaw-heavy job, and didn't even bring my old bosch, and now I wish I had. There are moments I think that it's nice, but overall I'm feeling foolish for spending this particular $630!!!

It feels like they maybe rushed through the design of the d-handle to satisfy the NA market, as from what I understand you folks on the other side of the pond use your jigsaws from below?

Did I get a dud re: the blade installation woes, or is this a theme? One thing I know is that I will be returning this one for a barrel grip and I'll just deal with the not having a trigger thing, which is my main complaint about those. Trigger control seems very necessary in a jiggy.

I know this is a very critical review but I feel kinda duped for the hefty price tag.

Festool reads this stuff right?

Thanks!  :-\

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 819
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 06:33 AM »
Return it if your still in the 30 day return period.  The Carvex is a tool that gets mixed reviews.  If you return it look at the Mafell PC11 or the Bosch JS572EBL. 

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 402
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 06:57 AM »
I'll start by saying you're by no means the first person on here to criticise the Carvex. Lots of folks don't seem to get on with it.

I LOVE MY CARVEX - I own both the older Trion jigsaw and the 18v Carvex 420. In some respects the Trion is an even better jigsaw, but I appreciate the LED and battery in my Carvex.

To your point and questions. . . .

- I've never had issue with the jigsaw not starting when using the trigger on the handle. Seems like yours might have an issue there.
- Yes it is ridiculous that the Allen key to adjust the blade guide is not kept on the tool (like it is on the Trion jigsaw)
- Ive never had any issues inserting the blade on the two Carvex models I've owned. Just to be clear. . . After ejecting the previous blade the slot for the blade should remain at a slight angle off centre. . And you push the blade in at the angle and wait for it too snap straight as it locks the blade in place.
The blade eject mechanisme works well for me, just occasionally the pendulum barrel that hold the blade needs to be push upwards so that the blade ejecting lever properly engages. .
- The tilting base can be rubbish, but also awesome. . Cutting a bevel on the corner of your material for example. But a more standard bevel base should definitely be made available.

Overall I've never used a more accurate jigsaw than the festools (never tried the Maffel P1) with the blade guides adjusted correctly for the blade they are awesome! The trion is a more ergonomic and much smoother jigsaw in use, but as previously mentioned, I love the LED and the freedom of battery power. . .

there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 07:26 AM »
Return it if your still in the 30 day return period.  The Carvex is a tool that gets mixed reviews.  If you return it look at the Mafell PC11 or the Bosch JS572EBL.

The p1cc is great, and while the cost is high the only real extra is the angle food. Everything else came with mine, or maybe I got a bundle?
(And when you add in a black diamond headlamp then that adds some more $)

Depending on how old the "Ol Bosch" was, you may want to look at a newer version.

I have formerly used d handles occasionally in the past, and the barrel seemed pretty easy to get use to.

At this price point you may want to spend up, or be happy with a Bosch.
I make cogent arguements both ways, and maybe I could do so for the Carvex as well if I emphasised the strobe... But I already have a black diamond head lamp and used it tonight in the back yard haunched over 'the Barbie'.

Offline Woodwork Wizard

  • Posts: 419
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 08:39 AM »
I love Festool but the Carvex 420 jigsaw was a disappointment. I bought a Mafell P1cc which is hassle free with no guides to adjust, a great cut, 900w motor, a 27mm extraction hose fits to it, it's in a Classic Systainer and is a much better jigsaw that I've never had any problems with. The Carvex was sold on via eBay, but the Mafell I'll have until I kick the bucket, it's that good...

Offline BJM9818

  • Posts: 141
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 09:06 AM »
I have owned the Carvex corded D handle for about 45 days. I also think the handle is way to thin and agree with many of your negative points. It's starting to grow on me but I may be buying a new Bosch jigsaw in the near future and throwing this one up for sale. 

I also have a huge PITA removing and installing blades. Glad I'm not the only one.

Offline BigfootBuilder

  • Posts: 68
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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 09:55 AM »
Great, after spending all of that money for which there should be not a single issue with this tool, I find that there's an even better tool that does work for even more money?

Just found this summary on the mafell users forum by Jonathan that sums up more of my thoughts very well,  seems a useful comparison, and draws some likely conclusions:

"As a disclaimer, the following are my personal opinions.
I used to own a Carvex 400 and TS55 among others, before I traded up for Mafell.
I'm not a Festool hater. In fact I have several thousand euros invested in Festool gear. I just call it as I see it.

In my opinion the Carvex is a gimmick tool. They try to sell people on all kinds of bells and whistles but the basic core of the tool isn't solid.

Firstly, you need to buy and lug around a second systainer for accessories, whereas on the Mafell it all comes in a single one. I've always said this, Festool is best suited in the shop, Mafell at the jobsite. This becomes very clear after just a few months of jobsite use side by side. In most cases, the Mafell systainer will be more compact and the attachments will fit with the tool, not an additional systainer.

I'll start off with the strobe light gimmick. A LED light is a welcome addition to any tool. Unfortunately the visibility on the Carvex is poor by design. It gets completely frustrating when you pull the dust shroud down. In contrast the P1cc has better visibility and dust collection (for a jigsaw...) from the start. There's even far less dust inhibiting your view when used without a vaccuum.

The guide brackets/brushes prematurely burn your up your blades. If you want to change to a different kind of blade you need an allen key which will get lost in no time as it can't be stored on the tool itself.

To add insult to injury, as Shane from Festool USA has stated, the Carvex needs the blade at the top of its stroke for the ejection mechanism to work. In some instances, the blade does not return to this position and thus the ejection button doesn't work. This most commonly would happen if the Carvex is turned off mid-cut. The blade hangs on the material, preventing it from completely the stroke and returning to the top (home) position. It can then take up to 20 to 30 seconds to get your blade out.

The Trion blades won't even eject from the much touted blade ejecting system at all. The shaft on these is thicker than the new Carvex blades. And you can't change any blade without taking out the splinter guard first.

The ejecting mechanism to shoot blades out is obviously there because the blades run so darn hot you won't want to touch them. When I need to change to a different kind of blade, I just might want to still use the one I was just using and not go pick it off the floor.

Using the Carvex on a guide rail means you have to first switch baseplates first. The P1cc just has the grooves on each baseplate as is.

And then there's the other advantages the P1cc has over the Carvex like stability, durability, depth of cut, the option to reversible blades, ...


The Carvex probably isn't a bad saw, in fact it might be a very good one compared to everything else out there. But it's finicky.

In operation, it just seems like a lot of faffing about with this and that to (hopefully) get it set up just right. Because it is finicky that way. And then, eventually, you can make a cut. I can't be bothered with all that, when I'm using my tools, I'm trying to get stuff done.

I call that a tool that's not designed properly at the core and they threw in a whole bunch of extra items to try and fix it/make up for it.
Now, is it all that dramatic, of course not. And the tool has it's merits, like the lighter weight, plug-it cord, additional bases.

But, when I'm working I don't need a finicky tool to struggle with. I know it's fun for a lot of guys to manipulate their tool. Switch a base here, attach this there, etc. It's fun for me too, In the weekend, at home.
When I'm working I just want to get stuff done and get a move on. The P1cc just gets my stuff done a lot faster, easier and smarter ;)

Opinions will vary"

Offline BigfootBuilder

  • Posts: 68
    • California Sustainable Builders
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 01:18 PM »
You're about 4 years late to the party.

Story of my life.

Well at this point I'm considering 2 things:

-Return it (no matter what) and get the barrel grip version, but now I'm torn between battery operated and corded. I've poured through the +'s and -'s and can't wrap my head around a decision. Thoughts?

-If that doesn't pan out, I may opt for that nice bosch one mentioned above by @T. Ernsberger

The reviews on the bosch one are all pretty solid, and maybe I was remiss in falling for the the DC benefits of the carvex, as I still have to constantly blow off the cut line every breath I take. In this case, I'd take blow over suck....

Offline SS Teach

  • Posts: 258
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 02:25 PM »
The Bosch JS572EBL is one of my two non Festools. For its cost there were too many iffy reviews concerning the Carvex. Some folks loved it others not so much. I have no regrets at all concerning the Bosch.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set.

Offline BigfootBuilder

  • Posts: 68
    • California Sustainable Builders
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 03:17 PM »
Sweet, just finally got a blade to go in and now it won't turn to lock, AND I can't get it back out. If this thing weren't so darn expensive I would literally run it over right now.

Think I'm going to have to go and buy a Bosch right now so I can finish my job...

Offline rdr

  • Posts: 68
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 03:31 PM »
This thread has caught my attention as was about to purchase a 18v Carvex. I had a handle of one in my dealers and it felt pretty good (barrel grip) but I didn't actually try the blade swap or cutting with it. Are the cordless and corded versions pretty much the same mechanically?

I'm wanting to replace my dying 18v Dewalt with another cordless and was automatically heading toward Festool as I already have batteries and charger plus the UK free battery promotion is still on but this feedback has got me a bit worried now, may have to do some more research!

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 03:54 PM »
I bought the D handle basic with free battery about 6 weeks ago.
I agree the allen key issue is daft as well as adjusting the guides.
I keep meaning to read the destructions regarding the top button as I have issue with it, but the side ones are great.
Dust extraction not bad.
Strobe light ok but would prefer a fixed light.
BUT all in all I am more than happy I have started using it where I would never have used my old Makita, through thick material I haven't really tried (personally I don't think jigsaws were designed for thick stuff)
Do I regret buying?
No I love it

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 04:31 PM »
Hi,

@andyman You can switch setting (strobe, solid/constant, off) for the LED on the Carvex.

Take a look at the great video here: https://www.instagram.com/p/BR-erUsDYCo/?taken-by=festoolsedge

(It's also described in the manual)

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 04:34 PM »
Great
Like I said I should have read the manual [big grin]

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 629
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 04:37 PM »
Great just watched thanks

Offline BigfootBuilder

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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 04:39 PM »
Here's an example of how 1 out of whatever amount of times the tool will not engage with a trigger press.



I will definitely be sending this thing back, and I'll give a barrel grip a chance, but feeling real let down with this whole jigsaw shenanigan. I've spent more time hassling with this thing than actually producing with it.

I'll also note here for anyone considering between barrel and d, not only is the handle on the d small, but the trigger mechanism - aside from not working part of the time on my current one - has a very weak action, and way too short of a pull to comfortably change speeds on a saw that is also bouncing around. On top of that, the way that it is located makes it very uncomfortable to depress, and to get it to highest speed you have to squeeze so tight that it hinders the finesse one is usually going for when working with a jigsaw.

All in all, I'd give this thing like 2/5 stars, 4/10 trees, 1 thumb sideways, whatever. Back to the drawing board in my critical but user-focused opinion...

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1619
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2017, 05:58 PM »
Marmite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

"The British version of the product is a sticky, dark brown food paste with a distinctive, powerful flavour, which is extremely salty. This distinctive taste is reflected in the British company's marketing slogan: "Love it or hate it." Such is its prominence in British popular culture that the product's name has entered British English as a metaphor for something that is an acquired taste or tends to polarise opinions"

I have a PS 420 and have had zero of the issues often mentioned. I've just bought a PSC 420.

For those mentioning issues changing blades, I was reminded of a recent post on Instagram by Sedge.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTjfJiRF3ri/?taken-by=festoolsedge&hl=en

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 402
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2017, 06:08 PM »
Battery powered is just so handy.... I know i suddenly started grabbing my Jigsaw for many purposes i wouldn't have considered before, simply because it's suddenly so handy to grab and make a quick cut or two..

As to what brand... Well for me it was a no brainer as i only have festool cordless these days...

I also really have to stress that i just don't comprehend people's comments complaining about festool Jigsaw cut quality/accuracy... Maybe in 18mm ply sheets other (or rather cheaper) brands are just add good... But in 40mm timber I've not yet used a makita or bosch that compares. No I've not used all the Jigsaws. But when I'm not making furniture in my own shop i work as head of set for a theatre company, and we employ many freelance carpenters who turn up with all their own gear.... And i would say that the tool i lend out most often is one of my festool jigsaws, after seeing a carpenters first attempt with his own makita/dewalt/etc they are always impressed with the festool Jigsaw (I've always personally set the blade guides for the blade in use)

I don't want to bang on about this, and I'm really not a festool pusher, why would i care that much? I'm just continually impressed and overjoyed with my two festool jigsaws, and can only sit there scratching my head when others tell of their bad experiences...
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1061
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2017, 06:18 PM »
For those mentioning issues changing blades, I was reminded of a recent post on Instagram by Sedge.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTjfJiRF3ri/?taken-by=festoolsedge&hl=en
Wouldn't it be easier to just enable blade change in any position, just like any other jigsaw? They add a constraint (blade release only in far down position) which serves no purpose, then add some electronic reset feature to overcome the constraint. OK, rant is over.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2017, 06:33 PM »
...

-...but now I'm torn between battery operated and corded. I've poured through the +'s and -'s and can't wrap my head around a decision. Thoughts?
...

The following makes it easy:

Do you have a power lead? => corded
Do tyou prefer plugging in a cord rather than waiting for the battery to charge? => corded
Does the extra expense of batteries vex you? => corded

Are you on a roof? => cordless
Do you aready have batteries? => maybe then cordless
Are you away from mains power => cordless

However In the end it is a personal choice and many like cordless.

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 298
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2017, 11:36 PM »
The few times my blade stopped below the blade eject position, a little push on the end of the blade easily puts it to the up position.

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 402
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 04:58 AM »
The few times my blade stopped below the blade eject position, a little push on the end of the blade easily puts it to the up position.

Same same 😊
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 355
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2017, 10:20 PM »
You're about 4 years late to the party.

Story of my life.

I was around for the party and bought the Carvex because I have small girly hands.
It's insanely light (a pro and a con) and it is pretty darn slick.
Yes, the blade is a pain to insert.  Very much the same experience, here.
Obviously, with the chipguard, it's a pain to remove, also.
The blade guides are quick and simple in my environment,
I'd hate fiddling with them in yours.

Consensus has been that the Mafell is the best thing ever.
That or the high end Bosch should fit your needs a lot better.
No fiddling.   I don't like the base on the Bosch.
Mafell has the more elegant solution.   They also have the best dust extraction method (if it matters).




 

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 355
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2017, 11:55 PM »
I also really like my cordless festool carvex.  I have the dewalt 20v cordless  and I like it as well, but I will go for the festool when I can. Not having a power cord dragging along behind the tool is a huge plus for me with a jig saw.  The nature of the tasks for a jigsaw require turning the tool around as it cuts so you can find you are paying attention to not hanging up the cord almost as much as staying on your cut line sometimes. I have never had an issue with running out of batteries.  But I have a number of 15 and 18 volt batteries with various other festool drills. If you only have a battery or two I can see the issue there. But I'm very happy with the carvex.  I've cut a number of maple butcher block sinks out with it and that's a tough task which it did very well.
   I do wish the d handle was bigger around. My hands are not large and the skinny handle isn't the perfect design also being that I'm left handed.  I wish I bought the barrel grip but it's not really a big problem.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 11:59 PM by Jaybolishes »

Offline BigfootBuilder

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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 02:49 AM »
Well I traded it for the barrel grip battery one yesterday, and haven't yet had the chance to try it out. I tried putting a blade in in the store and it was much easier in the new one - the one I traded in was infuriating. I could not get a blade in or out, as mentioned, without extreme pressures and twisting.

@Jaybolishes I agree with you about the cordless benefit with a jigsaw, it will be really nice not to have andything dragging back there, and I think I'll use DE pretty minimally. For shop work what I've been thinking is that I'll rig an air line from the ceiling with a small and light apparatus to blow the cut line.

How does festool not have a blower like the Bosch does? I'm trying to upgrade from the Bosch, and so far my sense is almost more of a downgrade (for thrice the price).

I agree with those above who've opined that the Carvex is not Festool's finest work, and that there are better options out there. I'm posting all of my experiences and frustrations here about it to help others make informed decisions about their tool purchases, which greatly help me when I read through the threads of others when deciding on a tool. While I generally trust Festool to produce quality machinery, there are always going to be exceptions.

I'm going to give this thing a whirl, but I will readily return it too if I find it to not meet the requirements of $550 worth of saw. Perhaps I should just go for the Mafell? With the accessory kit I'm basically at the price of the Mafell!

My other thought, if this thing does not pan out, is to go with the Bosch JS572EBL. I like the looks of that thing and it seems well done for a Bosch (I say that feeling like they've gone through a rough patch with many of their tools in the last decade or so, just personal opinion).

Without having used it yet, I gotta say the barrel grip battery jiggy that I just got my hands on sure is long. And right off the bat, why are the triggers so hard to access? Shouldn't it at least be easy to turn on and off?

Thank you all immensely for your input so far! Like with my Sprinter, it would be a different story owning such things if it weren't for the generous input of so many thoughtful folks across this world...

Offline BigfootBuilder

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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2017, 12:39 PM »
Just want to follow up on this:

I've only barely gotten to use the barrel grip battery powered (PSC 420 EBQ) one I got just before leaving the country for the last 3 weeks, but I don't think I can stomach any of these Carvex's. Even with my long fingers, I cannot find a way to comfortably switch this darn thing on and off. Am I missing some trick? That's like, step 1. Turn tool on. I don't really understand the positioning of the on/off switches.

I am now conflicted between trying out Makita's cordless jigsaw, or going for Bosch's JS572EB. I think in 90%+ of a jigsaw's use, cordless is so ideal. Makita seems pretty well reviewed, but is not without its downfalls.
-No blower on the brushed version
-Blower on the BL version, but soft start a huge PITA as it can't be turned off.

The Bosch seems highly regarded in reviewlandia, as well as by folks on this forum. Perhaps I'll just deal with having a cord - as I always have - to get the highest quality tool (excepting the Mafell P1CC, which I can in no way justify the cost of).

I find it somewhat curious that no one from Festool has anything to say on this thread. And I've also found it incredibly frustrating that my calls into Festool were never returned regarding my issues with the saw, one being from the field during business hours when I could not eject a blade. Why put your phone number all over your tools if you won't answer or call me back?

I apologize for my frustrated tone, but I feel a bit cheated at the quality for the price, and from the lack of support from Festool. I've always thought you get what you pay for with these tools, and that quality service was part of that high price. I'll reconsider that now when I consider making future purchases, and do more due diligence in researching reviews...

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 143
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2017, 05:41 PM »
@BigFootBuilder
I'm sorry to hear that and hope you will find a solution to your frustration.

I have only recently gotten a PSC 420, have only used on on a couple of cuts, but have to say I really like it.
As you mentioned, it takes some getting used to having to switch a tool "on" to switch it off. But after a couple of cuts it gets more and more familiar.

I have not had any blade issues...

I'd say if you are really unhappy (sounds like it) maybe just try out the Mafell.
I think you have two options:
1) you are equally annoyed by the "king of jigsaws" and face the trouble of deciding between pest and cholera.
2) you are head over heals in love, which might make you forget the Carvex pains immediately.

So win-win. ;)

Good luck! [emoji256]

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2017, 01:41 AM »
There are not many really-really good tools.
The ETC/EC, the Mirka, the p1cc, the domino, the Zeta. (Which are also the tools that I usually recommend considering)

Whether the p1cc costs much more needs to be done with a sharp pencil to add up all the extras.
(I think the only one not included with the p1cc is the angle foot)

Offline Chris Wong

  • Festool Dealer
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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 11:16 PM »
Even with my long fingers, I cannot find a way to comfortably switch this darn thing on and off. Am I missing some trick?
Have you tried using your thumb?
Chris Wong, http://FlairWoodworks.com

The thoughts and ideas expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of http://UltimateTools.ca.  But Dan does say "hello".

Offline Nat X

  • Posts: 231
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2017, 08:30 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1148
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2017, 09:53 PM »
Marmite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

"The British version of the product is a sticky, dark brown food paste with a distinctive, powerful flavour, which is extremely salty. This distinctive taste is reflected in the British company's marketing slogan: "Love it or hate it." Such is its prominence in British popular culture that the product's name has entered British English as a metaphor for something that is an acquired taste or tends to polarise opinions"

I have a PS 420 and have had zero of the issues often mentioned. I've just bought a PSC 420.

For those mentioning issues changing blades, I was reminded of a recent post on Instagram by Sedge.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTjfJiRF3ri/?taken-by=festoolsedge&hl=en

I have no idea what Festool was thinking there but it seems to me it's a process that's way over-cooked. I have a Bosch, I hit the lever and the blade comes out. The tool has no concern whatsoever with regards to the ejecting blade.
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 118
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2017, 01:16 AM »
I looked at the Carvex 420 but I ended-up going with the Bosch 527.  The performance of both units are on par.  The Bosch has slightly better ergonomics and line of site.  Dust collection is not as much of a make or break deal on a Jig Saw.  Both the 572 and Carvex have good dust collection and blowers. 

The Bosch 572 was a better bang for the buck at $220 less with no significant performance gains for spending the extra coin to go Green.

Offline tazcubed

  • Posts: 31
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2017, 01:31 PM »
I ended up going with a Bosch JSH180B as a kit in a box and bought 2 6.3Ah batteries with a charger. Came in roughly half the cost of the Carvex. I found the lock mechanism of the Carvex to be a pain, especially when one needs to reposition one's hands or generally start and stop a few times. The Bosch lock can be turned off and not have to bother with holding 2 buttons to do the work. The only downside to the Bosch is that the blade release isn't great - buried behind the wire fence. The big plus is that the trigger is so much better than the Carvex. Handling is about the same for the most part, but the Bosch's feels more comfortable because it's a bit thicker (both D handles).

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 778
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2017, 10:51 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2017, 08:28 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 778
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2017, 11:53 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2017, 07:53 AM »
...
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

This is kind of funny.
I started out with the TrueOne and only just recently found their SpeakOn and RCAs.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 778
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2017, 01:42 PM »
...
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

This is kind of funny.
I started out with the TrueOne and only just recently found their SpeakOn and RCAs.
lol worked in reverse for you huh? Yea in the US their audio connectors are pretty much the go to standard for top of the line cables. Sure there are audiofool boutique offerings, but for actual commercial work Neutrik is as good as it needs to get and has been for many years now.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 355
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 04:42 AM »
I soldered thousands of Neutrik XLR's back when I was sexy. 
I have forgotten the name of their major competitor, so I guess that speaks volumes
The memory does tell me that the Scandanavians gave me a good verbal beatdown
for pronouncing solder with a silent "L".

Ben, the plug it pigtails (pig-it?,plugtails? Duck Tales a woo hoo?)
lasted a whole one day on a couple of things before I swapped back to the standard cords.   All in, a costly experiment, considering I had to buy a new logic board for the RAS 115 after murdering the terminal block.  Also, that whole voiding the warranty thing.   

I picked up a few plugtails, but I can only confirm knowing the whereabouts of two
if you want me to send them to you, on the house.  You, too, can experience having a plomb bob dangling off the back of a power tool. 🤣

Bigfootbuilder needs to suck it up and buy the P1CC.
What irks you about the Carvex is what Mafell got right (particularly
your switch location woes).   

My dream jigsaw would combine the best features of the P1CC
and the Carvex.   P1CC for where the rubber hits the road, and Festool
for the bells and whistles.   


Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 118
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 11:28 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 355
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2017, 01:25 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

And some people love the Bosch because of the weight! :0

3 Horse Course Meal.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2017, 05:45 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 118
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2017, 06:16 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.
 

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23 PM »
There is no perfect tool - I don't care what color it is.  Different people have their own wants, needs, and expectations.  This can be based on funds available, work flow, work type, hand size, desired functions, warranty expectations, service availability. - you name it.  And they end up purchasing might not be the perfect fit.  Some manufacturers allow users to buy and try.  Some don't.  Some have 1 year warranties, some three, some longer.

If you are interested in a tool and want to take it for a spin, see if there is a way to do it.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1721
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2017, 10:05 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

$1,400 for a jigsaw? I think anyone spending even close to a $1,000 for a jigsaw should have a very good, frequent use for it. I'd like to know what uses would justify a jigsaw for a $1,000? Maybe for use onsite, but in the shop, it seems like you can get a decent bandsaw for a $1,000 which would cut the curves occasionally needed and perform other uses.
Randy

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 118
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2017, 12:16 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

$1,400 for a jigsaw? I think anyone spending even close to a $1,000 for a jigsaw should have a very good, frequent use for it. I'd like to know what uses would justify a jigsaw for a $1,000? Maybe for use onsite, but in the shop, it seems like you can get a decent bandsaw for a $1,000 which would cut the curves occasionally needed and perform other uses.

That’s the price when you want to have only the best of the best.  I’d rather settle for tool that 90% of the quality that leaves you with money in the bank to buy some wood to build some projects.

There’s a law of diminishing returns on things like the Mafell Jig Saw.  It may be the best but not in any way that it’s going to make or break a project. 
 


Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 443
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2017, 01:17 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

$1,400 for a jigsaw? I think anyone spending even close to a $1,000 for a jigsaw should have a very good, frequent use for it. I'd like to know what uses would justify a jigsaw for a $1,000? Maybe for use onsite, but in the shop, it seems like you can get a decent bandsaw for a $1,000 which would cut the curves occasionally needed and perform other uses.

That’s the price when you want to have only the best of the best.  I’d rather settle for tool that 90% of the quality that leaves you with money in the bank to buy some wood to build some projects.

There’s a law of diminishing returns on things like the Mafell Jig Saw.  It may be the best but not in any way that it’s going to make or break a project. 
 


Not sure where the $1,400 price is coming from.  Here is a much cheaper alternative that is just as good:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-p1cc-jigsaw
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 01:22 AM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: Something else Metric |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2318
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2017, 02:18 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

I own them both and there are no similarities between the two other than being a barrel grip that accepts T shank blades. Both are capable saws, but the Mafell cuts are steps above any other jigsaw I have used. Not everyone needs this level of accuracy and nor everyone wants to spend the money on a jigsaw. I have no regrets on either purchase and would buy a replacement if either saw disappeared. YMMV.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2017, 04:27 AM »
...

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

There is nothing wrong with the Bosch. It was only my list as second choice.
However the maths can use some "review/thoughts" to mirror the title of the thread:

Other sources in Germany may be less, but the Dictum website is easy.
Saw: https://www.dictum.com/de/werkzeuge/elektrowerkzeuge-und-zubehoer/saegen/709387k/aktion-mafell-praezisionsstichsaege-p1-cc-maximax-im-t-max
Angle-foot: https://www.dictum.com/de/werkzeuge/elektrowerkzeuge-und-zubehoer/saegen/704025k/mafell-schwenkplatte-p1-sp-bis-450-schwenkbar?ftr=_33__97.7_1_48_12

USA:
Saw:
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-p1cc-jigsaw
Angle-foot: https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-tilting-plate-p1-sp

P1cc:
Item           De (Eu)         USA($)       Au($)

P1cc           534.31         765            809.69
Angle foot   89.25           134            135.25
                                    899 USD     945 AUD
^These^ include a circle cutter and they work on the Bosch track.

Carvex:
Item              USA      Au($)

420EB            525      680
Angle base      116   ~125
Circle cutter      68    ~90
Table adapter    28    ˜35
                      737    840(AUD)

Australia: About ~1000 AUD versus ~840 AUD with shipping in Australia. (I know mine was comfortably <1000 AUD with shipping)
USA: Appears ~740 versus ~900, but less or more for corded/cordless/etc.

It is not insignificant...
It is ~25% more in the US and 15% more in Au, and certainly not double the price.
Whether it is worth any more depends on if it is any better, and then how much more, is "how much better?".

I hear the same things all the time... "Festool is the best".
And then when a Mafell, Mirka, or Lamello is pointed out as being pretty good, then tune becomes, "They are not worth the extra money".

We can hear the same on the HarbourFreightForum (HFF), and they are also correct.

I am taking no real side here, as I think that the Bosch is probably about at the peak of Value (Functionality/cost).

Ideally some shoot out including a Bosch would make this Carvex review more of a fact finding mission.

Offline Womble

  • Posts: 14
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2017, 06:35 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

AH ha thats what these connectors are called :) i have seen them on bits of equipment before but didn't know the type.

They are available in the UK & from a quick look i don't see any reason why these cannot be used with either a UK 3 PIN 240v plug or a 110v UK Site plug on the other end of the cable providing you use the correct Amp rating which they appear to be available in either 16Amp & 32Amp varieties.

Also seeing as Festool in their wisdom have discontinued the UK 110v PlugIt conversion kits this could well be a very good solution for a lot of people. The 240v PlugIt conversion kits are still available though.

I am definitely going to look into converting some non Festool tools as a starter & see how it works out, they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.

Just as a starting point it seems Farnells sell these in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/c/cable-wire-cable-assemblies/cable-assemblies/power-cords-electrical-power-cables?product-range=neutrik-powercon-true1 and i am sure there is many other UK sellers also as Neutrik have a UK website http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/power/powercon-true1-power-cord

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3897
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2017, 08:20 AM »
....

AH ha thats what these connectors are called :) i have seen them on bits of equipment before but didn't know the type.

They are available in the UK & from a quick look i don't see any reason why these cannot be used with either a UK 3 PIN 240v plug or a 110v UK Site plug on the other end of the cable providing you use the correct Amp rating which they appear to be available in either 16Amp & 32Amp varieties.

Also seeing as Festool in their wisdom have discontinued the UK 110v PlugIt conversion kits this could well be a very good solution for a lot of people. The 240v PlugIt conversion kits are still available though.

I am definitely going to look into converting some non Festool tools as a starter & see how it works out, they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.

Just as a starting point it seems Farnells sell these in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/c/cable-wire-cable-assemblies/cable-assemblies/power-cords-electrical-power-cables?product-range=neutrik-powercon-true1 and i am sure there is many other UK sellers also as Neutrik have a UK website http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/power/powercon-true1-power-cord

You will need a plan.
My plan is everything 230v runs the yellow TrueOne PowerCon, and the 110v uses the blue ones.

You may also want something a bit obvious where the 110v cannot get 230v power...


...
... they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.
...

Neuerik only make connectors.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:36 PM by Holmz »

Online Steven Owen

  • Posts: 118
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2017, 09:41 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

AH ha thats what these connectors are called :) i have seen them on bits of equipment before but didn't know the type.

They are available in the UK & from a quick look i don't see any reason why these cannot be used with either a UK 3 PIN 240v plug or a 110v UK Site plug on the other end of the cable providing you use the correct Amp rating which they appear to be available in either 16Amp & 32Amp varieties.

Also seeing as Festool in their wisdom have discontinued the UK 110v PlugIt conversion kits this could well be a very good solution for a lot of people. The 240v PlugIt conversion kits are still available though.

I am definitely going to look into converting some non Festool tools as a starter & see how it works out, they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.

Just as a starting point it seems Farnells sell these in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/c/cable-wire-cable-assemblies/cable-assemblies/power-cords-electrical-power-cables?product-range=neutrik-powercon-true1 and i am sure there is many other UK sellers also as Neutrik have a UK website http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/power/powercon-true1-power-cord

There was a error on the Timberwolf site when I loaded the page.  Maybe it put me in the wrong county.  765 US or 995 CAD.  It’s $1000 Jig Saw in Canadian.

Is better Jig Saw. No doubt.  In the shop, both the Bosch 572 and Mafell will make the same cuts.  The Mafell will make those cuts a little faster and slightly cleaner finish.  For a home shop user or someone working construction, that really doesn’t matter much. 

If you’re in a production environment, the Mafell would shine.  Time is money.  Every second you shave off the time it takes to finish a part or piece is money. 

The average home shop user would never need the Mafell.  They would simply want one.  The Mafell made Bosch 572 is one of the best reviewed Jig Saws.  It gets the job done and it does it well.