Author Topic: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)  (Read 8263 times)

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Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1160
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2017, 09:53 PM »
Marmite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite

"The British version of the product is a sticky, dark brown food paste with a distinctive, powerful flavour, which is extremely salty. This distinctive taste is reflected in the British company's marketing slogan: "Love it or hate it." Such is its prominence in British popular culture that the product's name has entered British English as a metaphor for something that is an acquired taste or tends to polarise opinions"

I have a PS 420 and have had zero of the issues often mentioned. I've just bought a PSC 420.

For those mentioning issues changing blades, I was reminded of a recent post on Instagram by Sedge.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTjfJiRF3ri/?taken-by=festoolsedge&hl=en

I have no idea what Festool was thinking there but it seems to me it's a process that's way over-cooked. I have a Bosch, I hit the lever and the blade comes out. The tool has no concern whatsoever with regards to the ejecting blade.
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Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 241
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2017, 01:16 AM »
I looked at the Carvex 420 but I ended-up going with the Bosch 527.  The performance of both units are on par.  The Bosch has slightly better ergonomics and line of site.  Dust collection is not as much of a make or break deal on a Jig Saw.  Both the 572 and Carvex have good dust collection and blowers. 

The Bosch 572 was a better bang for the buck at $220 less with no significant performance gains for spending the extra coin to go Green.

Offline tazcubed

  • Posts: 31
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2017, 01:31 PM »
I ended up going with a Bosch JSH180B as a kit in a box and bought 2 6.3Ah batteries with a charger. Came in roughly half the cost of the Carvex. I found the lock mechanism of the Carvex to be a pain, especially when one needs to reposition one's hands or generally start and stop a few times. The Bosch lock can be turned off and not have to bother with holding 2 buttons to do the work. The only downside to the Bosch is that the blade release isn't great - buried behind the wire fence. The big plus is that the trigger is so much better than the Carvex. Handling is about the same for the most part, but the Bosch's feels more comfortable because it's a bit thicker (both D handles).

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 791
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2017, 10:51 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2017, 08:28 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 791
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2017, 11:53 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2017, 07:53 AM »
...
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

This is kind of funny.
I started out with the TrueOne and only just recently found their SpeakOn and RCAs.

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 791
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2017, 01:42 PM »
...
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

This is kind of funny.
I started out with the TrueOne and only just recently found their SpeakOn and RCAs.
lol worked in reverse for you huh? Yea in the US their audio connectors are pretty much the go to standard for top of the line cables. Sure there are audiofool boutique offerings, but for actual commercial work Neutrik is as good as it needs to get and has been for many years now.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 375
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2017, 04:42 AM »
I soldered thousands of Neutrik XLR's back when I was sexy. 
I have forgotten the name of their major competitor, so I guess that speaks volumes
The memory does tell me that the Scandanavians gave me a good verbal beatdown
for pronouncing solder with a silent "L".

Ben, the plug it pigtails (pig-it?,plugtails? Duck Tales a woo hoo?)
lasted a whole one day on a couple of things before I swapped back to the standard cords.   All in, a costly experiment, considering I had to buy a new logic board for the RAS 115 after murdering the terminal block.  Also, that whole voiding the warranty thing.   

I picked up a few plugtails, but I can only confirm knowing the whereabouts of two
if you want me to send them to you, on the house.  You, too, can experience having a plomb bob dangling off the back of a power tool. 🤣

Bigfootbuilder needs to suck it up and buy the P1CC.
What irks you about the Carvex is what Mafell got right (particularly
your switch location woes).   

My dream jigsaw would combine the best features of the P1CC
and the Carvex.   P1CC for where the rubber hits the road, and Festool
for the bells and whistles.   


Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 241
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2017, 11:28 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 375
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2017, 01:25 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

And some people love the Bosch because of the weight! :0

3 Horse Course Meal.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2017, 05:45 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 241
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2017, 06:16 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.
 

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23 PM »
There is no perfect tool - I don't care what color it is.  Different people have their own wants, needs, and expectations.  This can be based on funds available, work flow, work type, hand size, desired functions, warranty expectations, service availability. - you name it.  And they end up purchasing might not be the perfect fit.  Some manufacturers allow users to buy and try.  Some don't.  Some have 1 year warranties, some three, some longer.

If you are interested in a tool and want to take it for a spin, see if there is a way to do it.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1728
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2017, 10:05 PM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

$1,400 for a jigsaw? I think anyone spending even close to a $1,000 for a jigsaw should have a very good, frequent use for it. I'd like to know what uses would justify a jigsaw for a $1,000? Maybe for use onsite, but in the shop, it seems like you can get a decent bandsaw for a $1,000 which would cut the curves occasionally needed and perform other uses.
Randy

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 241
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2017, 12:16 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

$1,400 for a jigsaw? I think anyone spending even close to a $1,000 for a jigsaw should have a very good, frequent use for it. I'd like to know what uses would justify a jigsaw for a $1,000? Maybe for use onsite, but in the shop, it seems like you can get a decent bandsaw for a $1,000 which would cut the curves occasionally needed and perform other uses.

That’s the price when you want to have only the best of the best.  I’d rather settle for tool that 90% of the quality that leaves you with money in the bank to buy some wood to build some projects.

There’s a law of diminishing returns on things like the Mafell Jig Saw.  It may be the best but not in any way that it’s going to make or break a project. 
 


Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 461
  • Festool Atomic Phaser Particle Blaster (APPB Set)
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #46 on: October 12, 2017, 01:17 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

$1,400 for a jigsaw? I think anyone spending even close to a $1,000 for a jigsaw should have a very good, frequent use for it. I'd like to know what uses would justify a jigsaw for a $1,000? Maybe for use onsite, but in the shop, it seems like you can get a decent bandsaw for a $1,000 which would cut the curves occasionally needed and perform other uses.

That’s the price when you want to have only the best of the best.  I’d rather settle for tool that 90% of the quality that leaves you with money in the bank to buy some wood to build some projects.

There’s a law of diminishing returns on things like the Mafell Jig Saw.  It may be the best but not in any way that it’s going to make or break a project. 
 


Not sure where the $1,400 price is coming from.  Here is a much cheaper alternative that is just as good:

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-p1cc-jigsaw
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 01:22 AM by McNally Family »
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26 w/Installer Cleaning Set | C18 5.2 Set w/Centrotec Installer's Set | RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set |  Won the CXS Li 2.6 90 Limited Edition on 06/20/2016 | Metric Parallel Guide Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | FS1400/2-LR 32 Guide Rail (x1) | Next  Purchase: A new sander by Christmas |

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2337
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #47 on: October 12, 2017, 02:18 AM »
I don't know what you charge per hour, but I bet if you added up all the time you've spent typing the same thing over and over in this thread you could probably justify the price of the Mafell pretty easily.

Some of these problems are very real and some of them seem like utterly bizarre fixations of yours. Regardless, if you don't like it, you don't like it and should exercise the generous return policy as we all have whenever we found ourselves in similar situations. I myself hated the Domino 500 everybody's nuts about and will say so at the drop of a hat, but I'm not going to spend days of my life demanding Festool rush a new design to market on an internet forum because A) that's completely impossible even if they wanted to and B) finding tools I like working with is a much more productive use of everyone's time.

Everyone has a different way of working and different set of expectations for the tools they’re using in a project.  It’s next to impossible to build the perfect tool.

I love the Bosch 572 because it has the best line of sight of any jig saw on the market.  Other people hate rhe 572 because it’s much heavier than the Festool and Makita.  Who’s right.  Nobody is right.  Each person has completely different expectations.

I respectfully disagree...
In terms of cutting function the p1cc is hands down as close as one can currently get.

Some people do like features like LEDs and variable speed, and ergonomics are also a factor.

With respect to your Bosch, I can make a good case for it, which you have already done... And from a cost/value perspective it is also a "no brainer".

It is more how we "value" the cost, cutting and features that make it confusing.

The US economist just won the Nobel prize, and one of his finding was people are much more irrational than economists previously thought.

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

I own them both and there are no similarities between the two other than being a barrel grip that accepts T shank blades. Both are capable saws, but the Mafell cuts are steps above any other jigsaw I have used. Not everyone needs this level of accuracy and nor everyone wants to spend the money on a jigsaw. I have no regrets on either purchase and would buy a replacement if either saw disappeared. YMMV.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #48 on: October 12, 2017, 04:27 AM »
...

I’m only talking about Jig Saw’s under a $1000 dollars.  At $1400 US, you better be making money with that Jig Saw to use it as a tax write-off.

Looking at the many of the design similarities, It looks like Mafell is the one sub manufacturing the 572 for Bosch.  The body shape, button placement, layout of and exterior design of the Bosch 572 and the Mafell share too many design similarities for it not to be made by Mafell. 

Bosch uses Mafell for a lot of their high-end tools designs like their track saws.

The 572 is the poor man’s version of the Mafell.

There is nothing wrong with the Bosch. It was only my list as second choice.
However the maths can use some "review/thoughts" to mirror the title of the thread:

Other sources in Germany may be less, but the Dictum website is easy.
Saw: https://www.dictum.com/de/werkzeuge/elektrowerkzeuge-und-zubehoer/saegen/709387k/aktion-mafell-praezisionsstichsaege-p1-cc-maximax-im-t-max
Angle-foot: https://www.dictum.com/de/werkzeuge/elektrowerkzeuge-und-zubehoer/saegen/704025k/mafell-schwenkplatte-p1-sp-bis-450-schwenkbar?ftr=_33__97.7_1_48_12

USA:
Saw:
https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-p1cc-jigsaw
Angle-foot: https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-tilting-plate-p1-sp

P1cc:
Item           De (Eu)         USA($)       Au($)

P1cc           534.31         765            809.69
Angle foot   89.25           134            135.25
                                    899 USD     945 AUD
^These^ include a circle cutter and they work on the Bosch track.

Carvex:
Item              USA      Au($)

420EB            525      680
Angle base      116   ~125
Circle cutter      68    ~90
Table adapter    28    ˜35
                      737    840(AUD)

Australia: About ~1000 AUD versus ~840 AUD with shipping in Australia. (I know mine was comfortably <1000 AUD with shipping)
USA: Appears ~740 versus ~900, but less or more for corded/cordless/etc.

It is not insignificant...
It is ~25% more in the US and 15% more in Au, and certainly not double the price.
Whether it is worth any more depends on if it is any better, and then how much more, is "how much better?".

I hear the same things all the time... "Festool is the best".
And then when a Mafell, Mirka, or Lamello is pointed out as being pretty good, then tune becomes, "They are not worth the extra money".

We can hear the same on the HarbourFreightForum (HFF), and they are also correct.

I am taking no real side here, as I think that the Bosch is probably about at the peak of Value (Functionality/cost).

Ideally some shoot out including a Bosch would make this Carvex review more of a fact finding mission.

Offline Womble

  • Posts: 16
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #49 on: October 12, 2017, 06:35 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

AH ha thats what these connectors are called :) i have seen them on bits of equipment before but didn't know the type.

They are available in the UK & from a quick look i don't see any reason why these cannot be used with either a UK 3 PIN 240v plug or a 110v UK Site plug on the other end of the cable providing you use the correct Amp rating which they appear to be available in either 16Amp & 32Amp varieties.

Also seeing as Festool in their wisdom have discontinued the UK 110v PlugIt conversion kits this could well be a very good solution for a lot of people. The 240v PlugIt conversion kits are still available though.

I am definitely going to look into converting some non Festool tools as a starter & see how it works out, they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.

Just as a starting point it seems Farnells sell these in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/c/cable-wire-cable-assemblies/cable-assemblies/power-cords-electrical-power-cables?product-range=neutrik-powercon-true1 and i am sure there is many other UK sellers also as Neutrik have a UK website http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/power/powercon-true1-power-cord

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2017, 08:20 AM »
....

AH ha thats what these connectors are called :) i have seen them on bits of equipment before but didn't know the type.

They are available in the UK & from a quick look i don't see any reason why these cannot be used with either a UK 3 PIN 240v plug or a 110v UK Site plug on the other end of the cable providing you use the correct Amp rating which they appear to be available in either 16Amp & 32Amp varieties.

Also seeing as Festool in their wisdom have discontinued the UK 110v PlugIt conversion kits this could well be a very good solution for a lot of people. The 240v PlugIt conversion kits are still available though.

I am definitely going to look into converting some non Festool tools as a starter & see how it works out, they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.

Just as a starting point it seems Farnells sell these in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/c/cable-wire-cable-assemblies/cable-assemblies/power-cords-electrical-power-cables?product-range=neutrik-powercon-true1 and i am sure there is many other UK sellers also as Neutrik have a UK website http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/power/powercon-true1-power-cord

You will need a plan.
My plan is everything 230v runs the yellow TrueOne PowerCon, and the 110v uses the blue ones.

You may also want something a bit obvious where the 110v cannot get 230v power...


...
... they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.
...

Neuerik only make connectors.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:36 PM by Holmz »

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 241
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2017, 09:41 AM »
So whos converted the Bosch 572 to work with the Plug-It cords? Love to see how it turned out. Thats the only thing holding my back from selling my Trion is I really like to use my Festool hoses with the cords attached to them in a sleeve. Id rather not have to use a separate cord to power a non-Festool tool.

IMO - Run another cord and use a Neutrik on it and convert the Bosch at a Neutrik.
just about all my tools have a Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon on them once the warranty is done (and sometimes before  [eek]).

Or get maybe for you, get the UK version of the PlugIt and convert the Bosch to match the Festools... While the Neutrik is better in every way imaginable and measurable, just go straight to the PlugIt.
Wow, never looked into the Neutrik TrueOne PowerCon connectors before, and I have used Neutrik connectors for all my audio cables for many years now. I think for a jigsaw Id rather have it be a Plug-It connector as Im pretty deep in the Festool system, but for other stuff I will certainly keep these in mind!

AH ha thats what these connectors are called :) i have seen them on bits of equipment before but didn't know the type.

They are available in the UK & from a quick look i don't see any reason why these cannot be used with either a UK 3 PIN 240v plug or a 110v UK Site plug on the other end of the cable providing you use the correct Amp rating which they appear to be available in either 16Amp & 32Amp varieties.

Also seeing as Festool in their wisdom have discontinued the UK 110v PlugIt conversion kits this could well be a very good solution for a lot of people. The 240v PlugIt conversion kits are still available though.

I am definitely going to look into converting some non Festool tools as a starter & see how it works out, they do look to be slightly more expensive than PlugIt but only slightly.

Just as a starting point it seems Farnells sell these in the UK http://uk.farnell.com/c/cable-wire-cable-assemblies/cable-assemblies/power-cords-electrical-power-cables?product-range=neutrik-powercon-true1 and i am sure there is many other UK sellers also as Neutrik have a UK website http://www.neutrik.co.uk/en-uk/power/powercon-true1-power-cord

There was a error on the Timberwolf site when I loaded the page.  Maybe it put me in the wrong county.  765 US or 995 CAD.  It’s $1000 Jig Saw in Canadian.

Is better Jig Saw. No doubt.  In the shop, both the Bosch 572 and Mafell will make the same cuts.  The Mafell will make those cuts a little faster and slightly cleaner finish.  For a home shop user or someone working construction, that really doesn’t matter much. 

If you’re in a production environment, the Mafell would shine.  Time is money.  Every second you shave off the time it takes to finish a part or piece is money. 

The average home shop user would never need the Mafell.  They would simply want one.  The Mafell made Bosch 572 is one of the best reviewed Jig Saws.  It gets the job done and it does it well. 

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 91
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2017, 07:33 PM »
You will need a plan.
My plan is everything 230v runs the yellow TrueOne PowerCon, and the 110v uses the blue ones.

You may also want something a bit obvious where the 110v cannot get 230v power...
Well, you could start by using more logical colours - 110 volt BS.4343/CEE typ17 connectors are YELLOW whilst 230 volt ones are BLUE. This is the exact opposite of your planned colours....

Is better Jig Saw. No doubt.  In the shop, both the Bosch 572 and Mafell will make the same cuts.  The Mafell will make those cuts a little faster and slightly cleaner finish.  For a home shop user or someone working construction, that really doesn’t matter much. 

If you’re in a production environment, the Mafell would shine.  Time is money.  Every second you shave off the time it takes to finish a part or piece is money.
I beg to differ, based on my own experience. I'm site based and I do a lot of work on historic building refurbishment as well a lot of new build interior fit-out. Which is exactly why I have the P1cc. That throwaway comment about "for someone working construction, that really doesn’t matter much." implies that accuracy isn't an issue. But towards the end of a lot of interior fit-out or listed building works when all the really detailed stuff is being done it most certainly is! The extra power and accuracy of the P1cc makes it a tool without peers in an admittedly niche area of the trades
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 07:42 PM by Job and Knock »
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3972
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #53 on: November 12, 2017, 12:47 AM »
You will need a plan.
My plan is everything 230v runs the yellow TrueOne PowerCon, and the 110v uses the blue ones.

You may also want something a bit obvious where the 110v cannot get 230v power...
Well, you could start by using more logical colours - 110 volt BS.4343/CEE typ17 connectors are YELLOW whilst 230 volt ones are BLUE. This is the exact opposite of your planned colours....

I may not be bright, but I am consistent... And yellow matches my bright-n-sunny disposition [cool]

Offline Steven Owen

  • Posts: 241
Re: Carvex PSB 420 EBQ review/thoughts (not impressed)
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2017, 05:53 PM »
You will need a plan.
My plan is everything 230v runs the yellow TrueOne PowerCon, and the 110v uses the blue ones.

You may also want something a bit obvious where the 110v cannot get 230v power...
Well, you could start by using more logical colours - 110 volt BS.4343/CEE typ17 connectors are YELLOW whilst 230 volt ones are BLUE. This is the exact opposite of your planned colours....

Is better Jig Saw. No doubt.  In the shop, both the Bosch 572 and Mafell will make the same cuts.  The Mafell will make those cuts a little faster and slightly cleaner finish.  For a home shop user or someone working construction, that really doesn’t matter much. 

If you’re in a production environment, the Mafell would shine.  Time is money.  Every second you shave off the time it takes to finish a part or piece is money.
I beg to differ, based on my own experience. I'm site based and I do a lot of work on historic building refurbishment as well a lot of new build interior fit-out. Which is exactly why I have the P1cc. That throwaway comment about "for someone working construction, that really doesn’t matter much." implies that accuracy isn't an issue. But towards the end of a lot of interior fit-out or listed building works when all the really detailed stuff is being done it most certainly is! The extra power and accuracy of the P1cc makes it a tool without peers in an admittedly niche area of the trades

I was thinking more about the person working in a home based shop vs someone out in the field.  The 572 is incredibly accurate, it just not incredibly fast.  You have to slow down the cutting speed on a 572 to get the best cutting accuracy.  The Mafell has superior accuracy at full speed. The Mafell makes 2 cuts for every cut you can make with the Bosch.