Author Topic: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons  (Read 91742 times)

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Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« on: August 27, 2013, 07:57 AM »
(part 1 of 5)

My Background & My Considerable Jigsaw Use:  

91571-0

I am a retired software developer and, since I retired 10 years ago, have pretty well been a full time woodworker / carpenter / cabinet maker / toy maker /stained glass maker / carver.  Woodworking, the way I define it, covers the full range from small boxes to buildings and includes related skills needed to “jazz up” the items being built.

Woodworking has interested me since about the age of 6 and have always been able to find time to devote to it, even more so now that I am retired.

Turning now to jigsaws.  A jigsaw was the second power tool that I owned.  That was purchased 53 years ago and I had it for about 35 years.  It was really only good for rough work, but I did a lot of rough work.  The jigsaw (a Bosch) that I acquired about 20 years ago was in an order of magnitude better and, then about 10 years ago, I purchased my first Festool jigsaw –a PS 2 E and experienced another leap in quality.  More recently, I added a Festool PS 300 EQ.

Why so many jigsaws?  I use a jigsaw more than any other woodworker that I know.  After electric drills, jigsaws are my most used power tools.  Working at several locations, owning more than one jigsaw means that I can (almost) always find one.  Most of the work I do is by myself, a lot of it involves framing, and some is in remote places.  I don’t own an electric miter saw and rely on a jigsaw for most framing tasks where others use miter saws and/or circular saws and/or reciprocating saws.  Here are some examples:
          
91573-1  91577-2  91579-3

91581-4  91583-5  91585-6  

The quality of the framing that I am able accomplish with just a few basic tools is very good and, I find, that when working with others, my work is at least as fast as theirs.  Here, for example, are the cut timbers of a gate frame cut using just the tools shown on the table:

91587-7
    
I own a couple of woodworking shops and, in them, I often call upon a jigsaw to do fine work even though I could make use of a bandsaw or scroll saw.  This workbench with a hole (and a tray below) comes in handy when doing precision work:

91589-8  91591-9
      
Some of the places that I work do not have electricity and it is a nuisance to haul along a generator.  Things would be easier if I could utilize a battery powered jig saw, but the Bosch 52318B that I purchased 7 years ago seemed large and “klutzy” and I just could not achieve the desired speed and precision.  Eventually, I got rid of the Bosch and brought along a generator or a very  long extension cord to some jobs.  My hope is that the battery powered Carvex will succeed where the Bosch failed.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 07:37 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

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Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 08:03 AM »
(part 2 of 5)

Carvex Arrival and First Impressions:

Festool provided me with two different Carvex in order that I could test and report upon them.  

In early June, three systainers arrived.  I found, a battery powered Carvex in a systainer 3, a mains powered Carvex in a systainer 1, and a Carvex accessory kit as well as extra blades and accessories in a systainer 2:

91593-0

Among other things, this means that, currently, three generations of Festool jigsaws are available for my use:

91595-1

Along with both battery and mains powered Carvex saws (barrel grip because I much prefer them), the delivery included the Carvex Accessory kit, some saw blades, and  a few other goodies.

The first thing I did was to compare the battery and mains powered saws for size, weight, and general feel:  

91603-2

The battery powered version is, of course, heavier and a little more bulky but the differences are not as great as I feared they would be.

Right away, I noticed the forward position of the switch and the fact that there is a switch on both sides of the saw.  I’m right handed, but in some situations, it is better to reach out with my left arm holding the body of a jigsaw in my left hand an this means that  I will take advantage of  this feature.  Of course, it will be even more appreciated by regular left handed users.  I am used to operating the trigger with my thumb and this is not easily done now that the switches are so far forward.  I expect that I will get used to operating the switch with a finger, but that is going to take me some time.  Right now, it seems awkward.

The accessory kit intrigued me, so I turned to it next.  Here is what I found:

91605-3
    
The accessories are:

1)  Five splinter guards
2)  Mystery strap
3)  Circle cutter jig
4)  Base for both guide rail attachment and for the circle cutter jig
5)  Angle base used to cut angles other than 90 degrees
6)  Hard fibre base
7)  Steel base
8   Dimpled base used to present saw dust build-up
A)  Hook and loop base to which felt pads can be attached
B)  Five felt pads

note: Items A and B are not part of the standard accessory kit.

following are views (1) with the regular base plate installed, (2) with the base plate removed, and (3) with the dimpled plate installed.  A base plate is removed by pressing down on the spot pointed to with the red arrow and pushing gently towards the front of the saw.  A new base plate is installed by pushing it back until it clicks into place.  Each operation took me about 5 seconds.

91607-4  91609-5  91611-6

Festool calls the part that holds the various base plates a “table”.  The regular table needs to be removed in order to install the angle base.  The photos below show the actions involved:

(1)   The saw table change lever is moved to the position shown:
                      91613-7
 
(2)   The regular table is removed:
                       91615-8
 
(3)   The angle base is installed and the lever moved back to hold it in place:  
                       91617-9
 
It took me 8 seconds to make this change.

There are still a lot of new things  to try before even turning on a saw.  The methods for both inserting and releasing a blade is different than anything that I have experienced.  Both methods seem strange but, I expect that I will get used to them.  To install a blade, one simply inserts it into a slot then turns the blade about 30 degrees to lock it in place.  The blade is released with this slider:

91619-10
    
Festool calls this the “saw blade ejection” slider and I certainly saw why the first time that I slid it because the blade ended up about 50 centimetres across the table about from the saw:

91621-11

I don’t understand the need to eject the blade, I prefer just releasing the blade as is done with the Festool Trion PS 300 EQ.

After inserting a blade, the blade guide jaws should be adjusted so they are almost touching the blade.  This is done with and Allen key which I looked for on the saw, its table, or its standard base but could not locate one.  I finally found an Allen Key in the battery powered saw’s systainer.  By the way, the Allen key was missing from the spot provided for it in the moulded insert in the mains powered saw’s systainer:

91623-12
 
The Allen key used with the Trion has a nice home in the base of the saw:

91625-13
    
I wish that Festool had designed the Carvex models with a spot to hold the Allen key right on the saw.  I am much more likely to put it back there than I am to put the key into a systainer.  This is particularly true because a tool’s systainer is often some distance away from the spot where I am utilizing that tool.

Before using the battery powered saw, I fully charged the battery.  Then, I tested both saws briefly by cutting along a pre-scribed line in ¾ inch pine.  I didn’t use dust control.  I cut using pendulum stroke 3 and the new A speed position:

91627-14
    
As I fully expected, both saws were easy to manipulate and both cuts were perfect.

Next, I checked to see how long the battery powered saw would run after being fully charged:

•   With the speed set a 5 and the strobe light on, the saw ran for 29 minutes.

•   With the speed set at 3 and no light one, the saw ran for 49 minutes.

   September 28th follow-up note:  The times when actually cutting are much less.  See reply #103 much later in this thread for details.

It took 64 minutes to re-charge the battery.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 09:38 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 08:09 AM »
(part 3 of 5)

Additional impressions and comments:

These are in no particular order –rather, they are ordered just as they occur to me.

(1)  Installation of the splinter guard is easy –the method is the same as it is with the Trion.  But, it is still difficult to remove splinter guard and I always seem to need a pair of pliers to do so.

(2)  The chip guard is semi-built in and it is easier to utilize than it is with the Trion.  However, it is difficult to slide the chip guard up and down.  I seem to need more than the recommended “minimal pressure” in order to get it to move.  This is true on both saws.

(3)  Depending on the position of the blade holding mechanism after one shuts off the saw, the blade ejection mechanism is not always properly aligned, therefore it does not always work.  These photos illustrate this:
                          
    a typical miss-alignment:  
                                                     91631-0                        

    proper alignment:
                                                     91633-1

(4)  It is not possible to eject or to insert a blade in the Carvex saws when the splinter-guard is in place.  Neither the Trion not the Bosch has this problem.  Festool claims that one should use a new splinter-guard with each new blade, and for folks following this advice, they would be removing the splinter-guard anyway.  But, I often use the same splinter-guard for more than one blade, so this restriction is an inconvenience.

(5)  I like the built-in light.

(6)  I like the ‘A’ speed setting where the saw determines the optimum speed and expect that I will use it most of the time.

(7)  I am disappointed that the battery-powered saw comes with only one battery (lithium ion 18 volt). It’s lithium ion 18 volt and that is good but Most of Festool’s drills come with two batteries and a saw is bound to use up the power in a battery more quickly than a drill.  There is room in the systainer for a second battery and the photo on the inside lid of the systainer shows two batteries.  If I keep the saw, I will purchase a second battery.
 
I checked out how long it took to run down the battery and how long to re-charge it.  With the speed set at 5 and the strobe light working, it took 29 minutes to run down a fully charged battery.  With the speed set at 3 and the light turned of, it took 49 minutes to run down a fully charged battery.  It takes 64 minutes to re-charge the battery.

(8   I’m happy that there is room to place a saw back into its systainer when a “regular” sized blade is installed.

(9)  Earlier, I mentioned that the new position of the switch would take some getting used to.  Another difference from my other Festool tools is that one pushes on the switch again to shut off the Carvex saws rather than pull back on the switch.  Today, I had an experience that warned me to get use to it soon.  I needed to shut off the saw quickly but it took me about 5 second to locate the switch.  All that happened as a result of this delay was a somewhat screwed up cut, but it could have been much worse.  With experience, one does not need to think about turning off a tool but because of the changes that Festool has introduced, I still need to think about it.

(10)  There is a nice feature on the main’s powered Carvex whereby the attaching mechanism can we turned up to the vertical position (as shown in the photo below with both the Trion and the Carvex).

                        91635-2

This feature means that it is possible to use the Carvex in some locations where it is not possible to use the Trion.
 
(11)  As we have come to expect from Festool, the manual is very “bare bones”.  However, I have been told that Festool USA is arranging to have a good manual written by a third party.  I hope that the third party is Rick Christopherson because his manuals are not just good, they are excellent!
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 08:27 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 08:10 AM »
(part 4 of 5)

The Tests:

The main thing that I want to determine with these test is whether a manufacturer has, at last, produced a battery powered jigsaw that I can employ as my main on-site saw. To that end I will put both the new Festool jigsaws, the older Festool Trion jigsaw, and the Bosch JS572EB jigsaw through a number of normal (for me) tasks.

91637-0
 
The three Festool saws are made in Germany.  The Bosch saw is made in Switzerland.

The site will be Pellow’s Island where there is no regular mains power.  Thus a generator will be used for the three 120 volt electric saws.
 
Test 1: Cut a pressure treated spruce 6 x 6 timber into several short segments.  I actually did this task seven years ago when I was building several docks and shore anchor blocks for same.  The jigsaw that I used at that time was my Festool PS 2 E with a Trion S 145/4 FSG blade.  By the way, Festool does not claim that this saw supports this blade well.  Nevertheless, the results were acceptable for the type of accuracy required.  Most of the cuts were out by a degree or two.

Six cuts were made with each of the four saws, two without the splinter guard, two with the splinter guard but no dust extraction and two with the splinter guard and dust extraction.  The pendulum 3 setting was used on all saws.  Speed 6 was used on the Trion and Bosch.  Speed A was used on the two Carvex saws.  The Bosch saw has a blower and I used it except when I had it in the four cuts where the saw was not connected to a vacuum. In all cases I guided the saw by hand following a line drawn across the timber.  Bosch and Festool blades are interchangeable and the same Carvex S 145/4 FSG blade was used in the Bosch saw and the Carvex saw.  A Trion S 145/4 FSG blade was used in the Trion saw.  These blades are not long enough to cut all the way through the 14 cm thick timer and about 1.5 cm was left uncut at the bottom.  As I had done seven years ago, I finished the cuts with a hand saw.  Photos follow:
        
    Trion without splinter guard:  
                                                   91639-1              

    Completing the cut with a hand saw:
                                                   91641-2  
          
    Bosch without splinter guard but with blower:      
                                                   91643-3

    Carvex battery powered with chip guard only:
                                                   91645-4      

    Carvex mains powered with dust extraction:
                                                   91647-5
                                        
Results:   -All 16 cuts were a perfect 90 degrees.

-Because it was not always easy to see the line, a few cuts wandered a little bit (at most a couple of millimetres off the line)

-The cuts using chip guards and dust extraction were perfect for all four saws.  It takes some getting used to, but I managed to follow the indents and markings on the chip guards:

         91649-6
                                      
-The blower on the Bosch did not help much, if at all.

-The lights on all three saws but the Trion did help me to see and follow the line.

-The time taken to make the cuts ranged from 22 to 27 seconds.  No one saw was faster than the others. (aside: it took about an additional 30 seconds to finish up the cuts with the hand saw).

For comparison, I also cut the timber freehand with my Milwaukee reciprocating saw equipped with the best blade for the job:

 91651-7     91653-8
    
This cut took 42 seconds which is slightly less time than the jigsaw plus handsaw cuts above.  The cut was acceptable but not as good as the cuts made with the jigsaws.  More importantly for me, it would mean transporting an extra saw to the jobsite (which I had not done when I cut all the anchor blocks 7 years ago).


Test 2: Cut an opening in a log wall.  Again, this is a task that I have done.  Two years ago I cut an opening in the log wall on the one side of my cabin in order to replace a window with French doors.  The “logs” are milled western red cedar and are 2.5 inches thick.  I used a guide rail and a Festool circular saw to make the horizontal cuts required.  Festool frowns upon this operation and I admit that it was a task that I approach with some trepidation and with great care.  Here is one photo taken at the time:

91661-9

There is no doubt that making the cuts with a jig saw is an easier operation, and one that Festool would approve of.

I kept the logs that I cut out and used them to simulate a complete wall.  The red lines show where the opening will be cut:

91663-10
 
Guide rail adapters exist for all four jigsaws but I don’t have them for the Bosch or the Trion.  So this test was only done with the two Carvex saws.

The distance between the Carvex S 145/4 FSG blade and the guide rail is 34 millimetres, therefore I positioned the edge of the guide rail that distance below the red line.  I used first the battery-powered Carvex:

91665-11
    
then the mains-powered Carvex to make the cut.  Again, I used pendulum setting 3 and speed A.  Dust control was not used.  Both saws cut at the same speed (about 30 centimetres a minute).  Both saws made a perfect cut.  I felt more comfortable using a jig saw this way than I felt with a circular saw.  It was slightly easier to use the battery powered saw because of the lack of a power cord.  The power cord was not a big problem, just a slight annoyance  –but I think that the hose would have been much more in the way had I chosen to utilize dust collection.  


Test 3: Use a fine scrolling blade (S 50/1.4) to cut out an outline of this loon

91687-12

out of 6mm thick Baltic birch plywood.  My granddaughter, Isla, plans to paint the cut-outs for an art project of some type.  Since I am doing these tests at a lake in Northern Ontario that has many resident loons, this is a very appropriate project.

I prefer to do such cuts with the jigsaw under the panel being cut but I understand that this is not the preferred method for most North American folks; therefore, I will use both the ‘below panel’ and ‘above panel’ methods.

As is obvious in the photo below, when cutting a pattern this precise, the pointer on the splinter-guard cannot be used to following the line:

91689-13

In fact, I found that, for all four saws, it is easier to follow the line if no splinter-guard is used and the light is turned off.  I did have good task lighting.  If I hadn’t, I would have made do with the lights built in to three of the four saws.  Below, the battery-powered Carvex 420 is being used in what I found to be the best above panel setup.  

91691-14
    
It is possible to set the light on the Carvex to one of three modes, that is to: (1) strobe, (2) continuous, or (3) off.  The method used to set the mode is more complicated than I think is necessary.  The Bosch saw also has a light but the light is limited to ON and OFF settings.  Of course, setting to Bosch light ON or OFF is much more straightforward.


In this photo:

91693-15

the saw is underneath the panel being cut leaving only a portion of the blade above the panel.

I managed to get good loon cut-outs with all four saws. Using the saws both above and below the panel, there was really no difference in the quality of the eight loons.  All cuts were done with the saws at half speed.  Dust did not get in the way of seeing the blade when sawing above the panel, so I did not need to use either the dimpled base on the Carvex saws nor the blower on the Bosch saw. It was definitely easier and faster making to cuts with the saws under the panel.  Both above and below the panel, I found it easier to manipulate the cordless saw.

I do have one warning.  When cutting with the saw below the panel, I find the S 50/1.4 blade to be shorter than I would like.  When fully retracted, the blade extends only 6 mm above the base and I, when using the under the panel method with this blade, I don’t like to cut material any thicker than 1 centimetre.  This photo:

91695-16

shows how I bent a blade when cutting a pattern in 22 mm material.  This happened because I relaxed the pressure on the saw a little bit thus letting the end of the blade hit the underside of the material.  

Festool claims that this blade can be used to cut material up to 30 mm and I find this to be true when the saw is positioned above the material that is being cut.


Test 4: I need to install cedar facing boards in order to hide the under-structure on this porch and steps:

91697-17
    
This task involves both regular and 45 degree crosscuts at well as ripping of the eight 1x8 (really ¾ inch by 7½ inch) partly stained cedar boards that are leaning against the wall.  I do have a Festool circular saw and rails with me at the island and would normally use these to do the ripping but for the purposes of this test, I will do all the cutting with the jigsaws.  I can justify this because I often do ripping with a jigsaw on jobs where I have not hauled along a circular saw.  

I used all four saws for all three types of cuts.  All the work was done with a Bosch 144D wood speed blade.

91699-18

In the assumption that a rail is not available at this job site, the ripping was done following a pencil line.  In the photo below, the Trion is being used for this task:

91701-19
    
All four saws did an equally good job.  After each cut, I spent about a minute smoothing out the cuts with a Festool Rotex 90 sander and the resulting edges were more than good enough for this project.

Here is a photo of the job site after the work was well underway:

91703-20
    
The real differences among the saws showed up when doing 45 degree cross-cuts.  First up was the Trion:

     91707-21   91709-22
      
Angles are set on the Trion by first releasing the base with the attached Allen key rotating the base in order to align the edge pointed to by the yellow arrow to the scale pointed to by the orange arrow.  It is difficult to achieve an accurate angle using this mechanism.  It is particularly hard to cut a 45 degree angle because the edge hides the scale.  In this case, the angle that I set turned out to be about 43.5 degrees and this was good enough for the job.  It was quite easy to follow the line using the Trion.
  
Setting a 45 degree angle on the Bosch proved to be a simple matter of opening a lever, setting the base to a positive 45 degree stop, then re-setting the lever.  However, following the line was not easy because it was somewhat obscured by the base:

     91711-23
 
During the job, I made five cross-cuts with the Bosch and all cuts were bang on to 45 degrees.  But, every time, I jogged off the line a bit somewhere in the cut.  No deviations were serious enough to prevent using the cut board on the job.

On the Carvex saws, such angles are cut using the special angle base.  Changing to this base is fast and easy but setting the angle is more fiddly than I expected it to be.  There are no positive stops so the angle must be set using a square.
 
I was very surprised when a part fell off the base:

     91713-24    91715-25
    
The part easily snapped back on, but now I will always have to take special care not to lose it.

It is almost, but not quite, as easy to follow to line with the Carvex saws set to an angle as it is with the the Trion.

     91717-26
      
All the angled cross-cuts that I made with both Carvex saws were perfect.

Several standard cross-cuts were also made with all four saws.  All cuts were good and my only preference was not having to turn on the generator first when using the battery-powered Carvex.

Interestingly, I observed is that my go-to saw when needing to make some quick cuts to the underlying timbers was the battery-powered Carvex equipped with an S145/4 FSG blade: 

     91719-27


Test 5:  I am building a wash-stand here at camp.  The top will be cut out of material re-cycled from the counter-tops that I recently replaced in out kitchen in Toronto.  A cut-out will be made for this sink:

     91721-28
 
I didn’t have sufficient extra countertop material to make four full size sink-cut-outs, but I did have enough to cut out these four smaller ovals:

     91723-29
    
A Festool S 75/4 K fast scrolling blade was used in all four saws.  I used a chip guard but no dust control.  The pendulum 3 setting was used on all saws.  Speed 6 was used on the Trion and Bosch.  Speed A was used on the two Carvex saws.  Here are photos of the Bosch and the battery-powered Carvex performing this task:

     91725-30     91727-31
        
All of the saws did an excellent job in about the same amount of time.  No one saw was any better than the others at this task.  I tried both the Hard Fibre base and the Steel base on the Carvex saws and noticed no difference as compared to the Standard base.


Test 6:  I have made many “Lazy Susan” turntables in the past out of various types of figured hardwoods.  Here is one that I recently made out of ash:

     91729-32   91731-33
      
They make great gifts.  I like to keep three or four on hand for that purpose.  But, right now, I have none.

I have a small supply of figured maple here on at Pellow’s Camp, therefore decided to cut some disks with the jig saws.  In the past, I cut all the turntable disks using tools other than jig saws, that is: band saw, router, and even table saw.

I have both the Carvex and Trion circle jigs.  Bosch makes circle jig for my saw, but I don’t have it.

The same blade and saw settings were used in this test as in Test 5.

With the Bosch, I first marked the circle with a compass and then cut it following the outside of the line.  I made use of both the blower and the light.

     91733-34     91735-35
      
The resulting disk is not perfect but it is acceptable and can easily be cleaned up with a router.

With the use of the circle jig:

     91737-36
    
the disk cut with the Trion was perfect.  There is no scale on the jig and I found it tedious to set up.  Once set up, it took about half the time to cut the disk with the Trion as compared to the Bosch.

The circle jig on the Carvex fits into the same base as the one used with the rail (see Test 2 above), it is easy to set up and has a built-in scale.  Here are photos of the jig in use, first with the battery-powered Carvex and then with the mains-powered Carvex:

     91739-37    91741-38
      
The scale on the jig was accurate to the millimetre and both the resulting disks were perfect.  It took me slightly less time to cut the disks with this jig than it took with the Trion jig.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 08:55 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 08:12 AM »
(part 5 of 5)

My Decision:

My Decision:

  • The four saws tested are of excellent quality and I can happily recommend all of them.
  • The Bosch JS572EB is a very good saw.  There are features that I like on it that are not on my faithful Trion.  These are the blower, the light, and the much better non-90 degree angle cutting with positive stops.
  • Both Carvex saws provide the ultimate jigsaw experience.  The new features that will be of particular benefit to me are the automatic (A) speed setting, the light, the non-90 degree angle cutting base, and the circle jig.
  • The battery-powered Carvex performed every task just as well as the mains-powered Carvex.  With its extra benefit of not requiring mains power and no cord to get in the way, this variation of the Carvex will become my jigsaw of choice.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 09:00 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline CarolinaNomad

  • Posts: 305
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 01:26 PM »
 [popcorn]
Jeff
resides in NAINA

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 1033
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 10:02 PM »
The idea that a jigsaw is someones 2nd most used tool is very interesting to me. Obviously it depends on what the person does but I do a wide variety of jobs and don't find it out nearly that often to be close to 2nd. A jigsaw packs up easily and is light to move around, show me more...
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 02:47 AM »
The idea that a jigsaw is someones 2nd most used tool is very interesting to me. Obviously it depends on what the person does but I do a wide variety of jobs and don't find it out nearly that often to be close to 2nd. A jigsaw packs up easily and is light to move around, show me more...


Totally agree.

I can go weeks with out using a jig saw in some cases. 

And I do a variety of jobs.

Jmb
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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 09:06 AM »
The idea that a jigsaw is someones 2nd most used tool is very interesting to me. Obviously it depends on what the person does but I do a wide variety of jobs and don't find it out nearly that often to be close to 2nd. A jigsaw packs up easily and is light to move around, show me more...


Totally agree.

I can go weeks with out using a jig saw in some cases.  

And I do a variety of jobs.

Jmb

I hope that I am able to convince you.  The test section of this report has six jobs that many people would do using tools other than a jigsaw.  Maybe you will agree with the methods that I use in those tasks, maybe you will not.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 09:01 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2013, 09:44 AM »
Quote
The chip guard is semi-built in and it is easier to utilize than it is with the Trion.  However, it is difficult to slide the chip guard up and down.  I seem to need more than the recommended “minimal pressure” in order to get it to move.  This is true on both saws.


Frank:

I also struggled to move the chip guard up and down at first. Then, I realized that if you use one finger or a thumb on the ridges in the front of the saw, it moves easily. There are ridges on each side also and it looks like that is where one would grab it but grabbing it there seems to lock it in place. It's a "head fake"...

Please try just using the front ridges and report back?


Tom

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 10:32 AM »
Frank,

      Great review , can't wait for the rest.

      How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws?  In other words  when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the  body of the saw.  Hope I explained that well enough.


Seth

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1978
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 11:53 AM »
Looking forward to reading more about your tests, especially ones that highlight the cut quality and benefits of the various bases and other attachments.
+1

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 12:14 PM »
(11)  As we have come to expect from Festool, the manual is very “bare bones”.  However, I have been told that Festool USA is arranging to have a good manual written by a third party.  I hope that the third party is Rick Christopherson because his manuals are not just good, they are excellent!

When Shane announced the manual last week in the Carvex Q&A thread, I had a feeling it would get lost in such a long thread. So I created a new thread to announce it a couple minutes ago. Here are the same links here in case you don't notice that one.

From either the Festool USA site:
http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/Carvex-PS420-Jigsaw-Manual.pdf

Or my repository of all my manuals:
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/Carvex_PS420.pdf

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 12:41 PM »
(11)  As we have come to expect from Festool, the manual is very “bare bones”.  However, I have been told that Festool USA is arranging to have a good manual written by a third party.  I hope that the third party is Rick Christopherson because his manuals are not just good, they are excellent!

When Shane announced the manual last week in the Carvex Q&A thread, I had a feeling it would get lost in such a long thread. So I created a new thread to announce it a couple minutes ago. Here are the same links here in case you don't notice that one.

From either the Festool USA site:
http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/Carvex-PS420-Jigsaw-Manual.pdf

Or my repository of all my manuals:
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/Carvex_PS420.pdf

Thanks Rick.  I wrote this review in early August but am just posting it now.  I assume that, at that time, the manual had not been announced. 

I missed the announcement because, at our island in Northern Ontario, I have very limited connect time.

I'm very happy that it was you that wrote the manual and look forward to reading (and using) it soon.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 12:48 PM »

Thanks Rick.  I wrote this review in early August but am just posting it now.  I assume that, at that time, the manual had not been announced. 


I wish I had known. The manual has been sitting at 99% completion since mid-July. I could have sent you a copy to review/proof. If memory serves me (which it may not) I thought you had proofed one of my other manuals a long time ago.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 09:23 PM »

Thanks Rick.  I wrote this review in early August but am just posting it now.  I assume that, at that time, the manual had not been announced. 


I wish I had known. The manual has been sitting at 99% completion since mid-July. I could have sent you a copy to review/proof. If memory serves me (which it may not) I thought you had proofed one of my other manuals a long time ago.

Right you are, Rick; I proofed the 1400 Router manual -I think that was your first one for Festool.  I am a great fan of your manuals and please feel free any time to ask me to review any of your writing.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Alexander Webb

  • Posts: 103
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2013, 04:27 AM »
Nice review Frank.I've got the 420 corded barrel , 4 months now and wish i'd gone with d handle. The d handle can be used in same way as barrel grip as in has switch and hand positioning as barrel grip.The switch on my barrel i'm getting use to but have had a few near accidents. The switch works by pushing forward to come on and remains on even if you let go, you have to push forward again to switch off. This helps in fact that the barrel grip is hard to wrap fingers around and hold switch on.  Can't see how festool gets around this with all safety regulations now days

The blade retracting to correct position for ejecting only happens occasional on mine and i just push the blade on a hard service sending blade back  into correct position. 
I do find the saw takes longer to do same cut as my makita but does a better job/ quality of cut is quite suprising for a jigsaw. Guides allow very smooth tight curves and cuts at 90'. I am finding if you do any curves it wrecks splinter guide or even changing pendulum seems to do them in. Just another cost to consider. I order the 20 packs now. I find the saw jumpy on pendulum setting 4 feels like i've got down cut blade in.  I find the saw cuts better at setting 2. This jumpyness i think comes from higher rpm that the saw runs at. I hate the strobe so set lights to normal which is a nice feature. The dust front shroud never stays down on mine ended up duct taping.
Funny Frank had the angle base screw fall apart as i had same bit fall off first use,been a bit more careful and it hasn't come off again.

I use jigsaw mainly for flooring and roofing.



Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2013, 09:05 PM »
I have finally completed the posting of my report.

I solicit suggestions for additional tasks.  I expect to retain all four saws for the next month or so, and will be happy to perform and report upon additional tests.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2013, 09:35 PM »
Frank, one of the best tool reviews I have ever read. Impartial, likes and dislikes for all 3 saws. One request for a further test, cut a corbel from the thickest material possible for your blades.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1978
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2013, 10:06 PM »
Great read Frank, many thanks. My test request is how tight a clean radius can the carvex cut using the jig. Also sure wish you could get your hands on a Mafell to compare with also.
+1

Offline GhostFist

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 10:26 PM »
Good luck on that.

Offline neilc

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 11:44 PM »
Wow Frank

Thanks for the detailed reviews.  You do a better job than any magazine editor in really trying practical tasks with your tools.   The recent Syscart review and now this review are excellent examples of real-world uses - even if you do carry propane cylinders!

I'd be curious how the saws cut metal - ease of control and quality of the cut.

I'd also be curious how the saws handle curves on thick materials.  The idea of cutting corbels I'd second.

Many thanks for putting the time and effort into this -

neil

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2013, 12:36 AM »
Frank,

Excellent review.  I have the Bosch and a Trion.  I get dead-on cuts with the Trion.  My experience with the Bosch is that I can get very, very close and sometimes perfect but I do find more blade deflection than with the Trion.

Do you have any up close shots of the cuts with a square?  Also, what about any pics of the resulting 45 degree bevel cuts?  Interested in seeing the final cut if you have something available.

Great review -- very thorough and unbiased -- well done!

Scot

Offline Eric_W

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2013, 01:09 PM »
Great review!  I know this is off-topic, but what finish did you use on the cedar?  It looks great.

Offline GhostFist

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2013, 02:18 PM »
Another question, how does the cut quality differ, if at all between the trion and the carvex? Would you say the carvex is a significant upgrade worthy of trading in the trion?

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2013, 02:18 PM »
You said in one of your Posts:  The blower on the Bosch did not help much, if at all.

Yet at the end you said:

The Bosch JS572EB is a very good saw.  There are features that I like on it that are not on my faithful Trion.  These  are the blower, the light, and the much better non-90 degree angle cutting with positive stops.
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Offline bkharman

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2013, 03:42 PM »
2 Comments.  The "mystery strap Thingy" is for folks outside of NA.  It allows them to lock the power switch for us CMS users.

The Blade ejector seems like something I would rather enjoy.  I often have to fight with my jigsaw when the blade is dull (and very hot) and I think that would be a perfect thing for me to shoot into a bucket or trash bin.

I am jealous of all of these but think i would rather enjoy the mains version... and perhaps the D handle (really like my D handle drivers!)

Bryan
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2013, 03:53 PM »
2 Comments.  The "mystery strap Thingy" is for folks outside of NA.  It allows them to lock the power switch for us CMS users.

The Blade ejector seems like something I would rather enjoy.  I often have to fight with my jigsaw when the blade is dull (and very hot) and I think that would be a perfect thing for me to shoot into a bucket or trash bin.

I am jealous of all of these but think i would rather enjoy the mains version... and perhaps the D handle (really like my D handle drivers!)

Bryan

Your Dead on!  Thats what I do!  I just am and FIRE! Dont have to touch the hot blade.
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Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2013, 08:10 PM »
Great read Frank, many thanks. My test request is how tight a clean radius can the carvex cut using the jig. Also sure wish you could get your hands on a Mafell to compare with also.

+1

Thanks for the honest review.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2013, 10:03 PM »
You said in one of your Posts:  The blower on the Bosch did not help much, if at all.

Yet at the end you said:

The Bosch JS572EB is a very good saw.  There are features that I like on it that are not on my faithful Trion.  These  are the blower, the light, and the much better non-90 degree angle cutting with positive stops.


That may seem like a contradiction but it is not.  I did not find the blower on the Bosch to be helpful in that particular task, but I did find it to be helpful elsewhere.  I wish that the Carvex had a blower.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2013, 11:11 PM »
You said in one of your Posts:  The blower on the Bosch did not help much, if at all.

Yet at the end you said:

The Bosch JS572EB is a very good saw.  There are features that I like on it that are not on my faithful Trion.  These  are the blower, the light, and the much better non-90 degree angle cutting with positive stops.


That may seem like a contradiction but it is not.  I did not find the blower on the Bosch to be helpful in that particular task, but I did find it to be helpful elsewhere.  I wish that the Carvex had a blower.

Well put; it is therefore a paradox and not a contradiction.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

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Offline elimelech12

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM »
On another I was thinking of the angled base...I posted this on Paul Marcel's review and was wondering your take on this-

I was pretty sure about my preorder over a month ago, but the angled base is a real turn off especially that there's no dust collection. Makes absolutely no sense to me being it is Festool.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline Kev

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2013, 01:43 AM »
On another I was thinking of the angled base...I posted this on Paul Marcel's review and was wondering your take on this-

I was pretty sure about my preorder over a month ago, but the angled base is a real turn off especially that there's no dust collection. Makes absolutely no sense to me being it is Festool.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

Is this for a situation where you can't cut from the other side or something??

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2013, 02:35 AM »
I guess, in less words, what I'm asking is if there is a point where the base would hit the stock when going in one direction and have to unsafely on the stock being removed when going in the other direction
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline hemlock

  • Posts: 93
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2013, 11:13 AM »
Frank,

      Great review , can't wait for the rest.

      How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws?  In other words  when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the  body of the saw.  Hope I explained that well enough.


Seth

Very helpful review....thank you.   I did not see anyone respond to Seth's question.   I have wondered this too and seem to have read somewhere else the Carvex barrel was bigger than the Trion and that report suggested getting the D handle Carvex because you would have the flexibility of the smaller D handle AND the barrel grip due to the switch locations on the Carvex.    Any experience or perspective on this?

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2013, 10:34 PM »
(3)  Depending on the position of the blade holding mechanism after one shuts off the saw, the blade ejection mechanism is not always properly aligned, therefore it does not always work.  These photos illustrate this:

Frank, I've not had a chance to read the whole write up, but thanks for taking the time to put together this thorough review.

I did want to comment on this real quick because I think this may happen to some of our soon-to-be Carvex owners. The Carvex needs the blade at the top of its stroke for the ejection mechanism to work. In some instances, the blade does not return to this position and thus the ejection button doesn't work. This most commonly would happen if the Carvex is turned off mid-cut. The blade hangs on the material, preventing it from completely the stroke and returning to the top (home) position.

There's a simple remedy... Turn the Carvex on for about 20-30 seconds and it will sense the problem and fix itself. You can actually see it happen with the strobe effect.

Hope someone finds that tip helpful.

Shane

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2013, 10:55 PM »
On another I was thinking of the angled base...I posted this on Paul Marcel's review and was wondering your take on this-

I was pretty sure about my preorder over a month ago, but the angled base is a real turn off especially that there's no dust collection. Makes absolutely no sense to me being it is Festool.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?


So can anyone who has a carvex respond to this?
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2013, 11:03 PM »
I think I understand your questions.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Turn and cut from the opposite direction. Then the angle base is at an acute angle rather than obtuse, but your bevel is the same.

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

First, you flip cut in the opposite direction assuming there is more support on the other side of the cut. I doubt you've be cutting something only a couple of inches wide, so presumably more support on the other side.

Also, if you think the base is too narrow, there are screws that hold the plastic runners on the bottom of the base. You could remove the plastic runner(s) and add a piece of thin wood, Plexi, or something else to make the base wider using the existing screws, or longer screws if necessary. So, you could make the base as wide as you wanted.

You've got 30 days to try it out for yourself to see if it meets your expectations/needs.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 11:08 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM »
I think I understand your questions.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Turn and cut from the opposite direction. Then the angle base is at an acute angle rather than obtuse, but your bevel is the same.

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

First, you flip cut in the opposite direction assuming there is more support on the other side of the cut. I doubt you've be cutting something only a couple of inches wide, so presumably more support on the other side.

Also, if you think the base is too narrow, there are screws that hold the plastic runners on the bottom of the base. You could remove the plastic runner(s) and add a piece of thin wood, Plexi, or something else to make the base wider using the existing screws, or longer screws if necessary. So, you could make the base as wide as you wanted.

You've got 30 days to try it out for yourself to see if it meets your expectations/needs.


Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM »
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 11:24 PM by Shane Holland »

Offline elimelech12

  • Posts: 376
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2013, 02:52 AM »
Also, if you think the base is too narrow, there are screws that hold the plastic runners on the bottom of the base. You could remove the plastic runner(s) and add a piece of thin wood, Plexi, or something else to make the base wider using the existing screws, or longer screws if necessary. So, you could make the base as wide as you wanted.

Wouldn't that be considered modifying a tool? Big no-no on the FOG [poke] Or is it ok because it's an accessory? [scratch chin] This thread is now locked!  [big grin]

Also, I thought about your responses but I cannot get my head around the angle base. When I build cabinets I leave a 1/2 on the ends for scribing an inward 15 degree scribe. Most of the time I take off a 1/4-3/8 depending on the wall, sometimes less. It does not seem possible in my mind. It seems that if the Carvex is going left to right or right to left with the base in the obtuse position, then it would be hanging off the stock or resting by a hair on the stock being removed.

And if the base were in the acute or, better yet, reflex position then the part of the base that overhangs the edge that I'm cutting would make contact with the piece if the scribe line is further in from the immediate edge.

(And no dust collection???) [jawdrop]

Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

That's a $200 risk.  [crying]
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 03:03 AM by elimelech12 »
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2013, 11:03 AM »


Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

That's a $200 risk.  [crying]


Ask before you buy  [thumbs up]


Seth

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2013, 12:07 PM »
That's a $200 risk.  [crying]

I'm sure you could sell a barely used accessory kit to mitigate your risk
+1

Offline elimelech12

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2013, 03:45 PM »


Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?
Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

That's a $200 risk.  [crying]


Ask before you buy  [thumbs up]


Seth

I think I'll be passing on the carvex. Its unfortunate because I was really looking forward to it. I sold my ps300 for it but looking back I miss it. (Just like I sold my 55 for the req  [doh] ) No dust collection on the angle base was the icing on the cake. I think when more people become aware of this we will see the results here. But thanks for the help.
Sold my tools but kept a few Fes-tools...just in case.

Offline RonWen

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2013, 11:28 AM »
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

Although I've never used the 30 return offer, I never realized it was limited -- is that to say that the return policy only applies to "powered" items?

Offline RonWen

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2013, 11:30 AM »
Very good information throughout the thread Frank, THANKS VERY MUCH!

Also, another great manual by Rick!

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2013, 12:20 PM »
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

Although I've never used the 30 return offer, I never realized it was limited -- is that to say that the return policy only applies to "powered" items?

I think it applies to whatever Festool identifies as a tool -- MFT/3's count as a tool, the Workcenter, Stool, etc...  I am sure Shane can also weigh in.

Scot

Offline Festool USA

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2013, 12:38 PM »
A tool is any product with a serial number for the purposes of our guarantee.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2013, 08:31 AM »
Quote
The chip guard is semi-built in and it is easier to utilize than it is with the Trion.  However, it is difficult to slide the chip guard up and down.  I seem to need more than the recommended “minimal pressure” in order to get it to move.  This is true on both saws.


Frank:

I also struggled to move the chip guard up and down at first. Then, I realized that if you use one finger or a thumb on the ridges in the front of the saw, it moves easily. There are ridges on each side also and it looks like that is where one would grab it but grabbing it there seems to lock it in place. It's a "head fake"...

Please try just using the front ridges and report back?


Tom

Tom, that helps a little bit but I still find moving the guard up and down to be awkward.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2013, 08:36 AM »
Frank,

      Great review , can't wait for the rest.

      How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws?  In other words  when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the  body of the saw.  Hope I explained that well enough.


Seth

Thanks Seth.  You are correct about it not being possible to wrap ones fingers under the body of the saw (unless one has very big hands).  For me that's not a big deal because I didn't wrap my fingers around that way on either the PS2 or the Trion (although it was possible to do so).
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2013, 12:07 PM »
Nice review Frank.

Thanks Alex, I am happy that I was given the opportunity to test all these saws.

Quote from: AlexR
I've got the 420 corded barrel , 4 months now and wish i'd gone with d handle. The d handle can be used in same way as barrel grip as in has switch and hand positioning as barrel grip.The switch on my barrel i'm getting use to but have had a few near accidents. The switch works by pushing forward to come on and remains on even if you let go, you have to push forward again to switch off. This helps in fact that the barrel grip is hard to wrap fingers around and hold switch on.  Can't see how festool gets around this with all safety regulations now days

As I mentioned in my review, I too was surprised by the position of the switches and the by  the 'push forward to shut off' action.  I still have not gotten used to this after about 10 hours of use.

Quote from: AlexR
The blade retracting to correct position for ejecting only happens occasional on mine and i just push the blade on a hard service sending blade back  into correct position.

Yeh, that works, but I wish that it was not necessary.
 
Quote from: AlexR
I do find the saw takes longer to do same cut as my makita but does a better job/ quality of cut is quite suprising for a jigsaw. Guides allow very smooth tight curves and cuts at 90'. I am finding if you do any curves it wrecks splinter guide or even changing pendulum seems to do them in. Just another cost to consider. I order the 20 packs now.

I agree that the splinter guards don't seem to last very long.  Mostly, I don't use them.

Quote from: AlexR
I find the saw jumpy on pendulum setting 4 feels like i've got down cut blade in.  I find the saw cuts better at setting 2. This jumpyness i think comes from higher rpm that the saw runs at.

There is no 4 setting on my saws.  I find that they run well at setting  3 and that is what I usually use.

Quote from: AlexR
I hate the strobe so set lights to normal which is a nice feature.

I don't like the stobe when I can see the strobe effect but I usually run the saws at the A (automatic) speed and, with this setting, the stobe is kept in sync with the blade movement and I don't notice it.

Quote from: AlexR
The dust front shroud never stays down on mine ended up duct taping.

I have not had this problem.

Quote from: AlexR
Funny Frank had the angle base screw fall apart as i had same bit fall off first use,been a bit more careful and it hasn't come off again.

Mine only came off the first time, but you can be certain that I am keeping my eye on it.

Quote from: AlexR
I use jigsaw mainly for flooring and roofing.

I use mine for most everything.   [big grin]
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 01:00 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Laminator

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2013, 12:49 PM »
Great review!  Thanks.  I received my D- handle carvex yesterday and just played with it a little and am really impressed as compared to the disappointment of when I first got the trion.   

Just wanted to add a tidbit about the D-handle.  The trigger lock button, unlike all others before it, is now a safety lock that must be pressed before the trigger will move.   I find this to be a major nuisance and very surprised that it is this way.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2013, 03:50 PM »
Great read Frank, many thanks. My test request is how tight a clean radius can the carvex cut using the jig. Also sure wish you could get your hands on a Mafell to compare with also.

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres.  The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres.  The photo below should illustrate this:

92056-0

The cut, in 15 mm thick Baltic birch plywood and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade, was very good (in spite of the fact that I did not use a splinter guard). The resulting disk had an accurate diameter of 12 centimetres and the sides were cut at exactly 90 degrees.

A 12 centimetre diameter circle is certainly small enough for me.  I own a whole range of hole saw blades for smaller circles.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:27 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2013, 04:00 PM »
Great read Frank, many thanks. My test request is how tight a clean radius can the carvex cut using the jig. Also sure wish you could get your hands on a Mafell to compare with also.

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres.  The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres.  The photo below should illustrate this:

(Attachment Link)

The cut, in Baltic birch and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade, was very good (in spite of the fact that I did not use a splinter guard). The resulting disk had an accurate diameter of 12 centimetres and the sides were cut at exactly 90 degrees.

A 12 centimetre diameter circle is certainly small enough for me.  I own a whole range of hole saw blades for smaller circles.

I'm honored by such a thorough investigation in response to my question, very clear and informative, my thanks to you
+1

Offline NJHW

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2013, 04:08 PM »
Thanks for the great review! How bad is the Carvex without the blower and without using a dust extractor? does the light help to still see your cutting line? Thanks again.

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2013, 04:49 PM »

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres.  The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres.  The photo below should illustrate this:


In the event that you need to go below 60mm, you can always use a screw for your trammel point. The included trammel point is a convenience, but you can use any trammel point you wish.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2013, 04:51 PM »

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres.  The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres.  The photo below should illustrate this:


In the event that you need to go below 60mm, you can always use a screw for your trammel point. The included trammel point is a convenience, but you can use any trammel point you wish.

Right you are Rick.  Thanks, I had not thought of that.  I will try it.

later:  I managed to cut a (good) circle 88 mm in diameter.  That's as small as I can manage.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 05:03 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2013, 10:18 AM »
In another thread Tallgrass said:  "My beef with the carvex is not being able to cut an angle while using the circle cutter. I was planning on cutting arks with a bevel. I gues I am alone in this.  O, well I will figure out how to cut my arch with a bevel some other way.  Otherwise I like the saw so far."

There is a way to do this if you are willing to cut the circle twice.

First, cut the circle with a radius 4 mm wider than the final circular piece.

Then, with the butterfly thingy positioned as shown and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade:

92086-0

cut around the entire perimeter of the circle.

My resulting circle in 15 mm Baltic birch plywood is acceptable:

crosscut view:

                        92088-1
side view:

                        92090-2

It would probably have been even better if I had used a splinter guard.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 10:23 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Paul G

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2013, 11:03 AM »
In another thread Tallgrass said:  "My beef with the carvex is not being able to cut an angle while using the circle cutter. I was planning on cutting arks with a bevel. I gues I am alone in this.  O, well I will figure out how to cut my arch with a bevel some other way.  Otherwise I like the saw so far."

There is a way to do this if you are willing to cut the circle twice.

First, cut the circle with a radius 4 mm wider than the final circular piece.

Then, with the butterfly thingy positioned as shown and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade:

(Attachment Link)

cut around the entire perimeter of the circle.

My resulting circle in 15 mm Baltic birch plywood is acceptable:

crosscut view:

                         (Attachment Link)
side view:

                         (Attachment Link)

It would probably have been even better if I had used a splinter guard.

If the keeper piece is the hole and want it beveled it seems we're out of luck with this tool and may need to turn to something else like a router. At this point I can only hope Festool or a 3rd party later offers a regular angle base that can connect to the circle cutter. Self balancing/supporting and reversing like the Mafell would be even better and dust control would be the icing
+1

Offline GhostFist

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2013, 11:05 AM »
Would the butterfly base end up crushing the edge using this technique? Perhaps not as the leading edge of the circle is not sharp. Your results look good on your given example and probably get better with larger arcs, but for smaller radius do you feel there is more risk of rocking the saw creating a compound angle on the bevel?

Just asking

Offline Alexander Webb

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2013, 02:57 PM »
Bevel circle cut looks good Frank, didn't you find the blade was a bit short on the bevel cut? . Unfortunately angle foot doesn't have place to fit splinter guard. Can you fit a splinter guard with that radius foot?

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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2013, 02:42 PM »
Would the butterfly base end up crushing the edge using this technique? Perhaps not as the leading edge of the circle is not sharp. Your results look good on your given example and probably get better with larger arcs, but for smaller radius do you feel there is more risk of rocking the saw creating a compound angle on the bevel?

Just asking

You are right in that cutting this way with a small radius would be a problem.  I would not be comfortable doing this with a radius smaller than 20 centimetres.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 03:30 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2013, 02:55 PM »
Bevel circle cut looks good Frank, didn't you find the blade was a bit short on the bevel cut? . Unfortunately angle foot doesn't have place to fit splinter guard. Can you fit a splinter guard with that radius foot?

The blade was long enough for this thickness of wood (15 mm) but I would not want the wood to be much thicker.  I wish that Festool made longer versions of both their scroll scroll blades.

I was (of course) just joking about using the splinter guard with the angle foot.  There is room for a splinter guard when using the circle cutting foot.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2013, 08:03 AM »
Great review!  I know this is off-topic, but what finish did you use on the cedar?  It looks great.

Thanks Eric.

I don't know whether you are asking about the finish on the cedar logs of the cabin or the cedar porch and steps, so I will answer for both.

The cabin logs are finished with: Solignum Natural Wood Finish (semi gloss oil) V696

The porch boards are finished with:  SikensCetol1  Natural SIK412078 (again oil based)
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2013, 08:52 PM »
Frank, one of the best tool reviews I have ever read. Impartial, likes and dislikes for all 3 saws. One request for a further test, cut a corbel from the thickest material possible for your blades.

I am overwhelmed by your praise.  Thanks, it really means a lot to me.

I decided to break the Corbel Cutting into two different tasks:

                  (1) Cut a corbel in 5cm thick MDF using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade

                  (2) Cut a corbel in 12 cm thick MDF using a S 145/4 FSG blade

Here is the corbel pattern:

     92205-0

Task 1:  This was done with all four saws.

With the Bosch, I used the splinter guard, the light and the blower:

     92207-1    

With both Carvex saws, I used the splinter guard, the light and dust collection.  Here is the corded Carvex in action:

     92209-2

With the Trion I used the splinter guard and dust collection.

The results were just about the same with the Bosch and with both Carvex saws.  I managed to follow the line perfectly except right in the two interior corners and the angle of the cut was a perfect 90 degrees throughout.  I needed to clean up the interior corners a bit with a file and sandpaper and, after I did this everything looked good.   Here are a couple of photos of the edge of the Corbel cut with the corded Carvex (before cleanup) :

     92211-3     92213-4

Because of the lack of a built-in light, I did not follow the line perfectly with the Trion and I messed up one interior curve a little bit.  Again the cut was a perfect 90 degrees.


Task 2:  This was only done with the corded Carvex.

Here is the saw and blade:

     92215-5

The cut was surprisingly good in spite of the fact that the blade is thicker, wider, and has larger teeth.  Again the angle of the cut was a perfect 90 degrees throughout.  Here is photo:

     92217-6
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 05:05 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2013, 09:52 PM »



I think cutting corbels was the main objective of the Carvex design, particularly the 90* fixed shoe.
It's a pain to set a jigsaw back to 90* after it's been set to some other angle. Sure most good jigsaws have notches in thier tiltable base but they almost always require further fiddling to get the saw to cut square. It would be great to simply snap back and forth between the angle base and the 90* base if that is what you need to do.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2013, 04:53 AM »
Another question, how does the cut quality differ, if at all between the trion and the carvex? Would you say the carvex is a significant upgrade worthy of trading in the trion?

I would not say that the quality of the actual cut is any better but, on many cuts, the ability to follow the line  is better on the Carvex. 

Certainly more accurate angles cuts can be done with the Carvex.  For this and for other reasons mentioned in the 'My Decision' portion of the review, I would, indeed, say the Carvex is a significant upgrade worthy of trading in the Trion
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2013, 02:47 PM »

...

The Blade ejector seems like something I would rather enjoy.  I often have to fight with my jigsaw when the blade is dull (and very hot) and I think that would be a perfect thing for me to shoot into a bucket or trash bin.

...
Bryan


OK, now I see a reason for this "feature". 

But, I still would prefer not to have it.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2013, 08:54 AM »
Frank,

      Great review , can't wait for the rest.

      How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws?  In other words  when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the  body of the saw.  Hope I explained that well enough.


Seth

Very helpful review....thank you.   I did not see anyone respond to Seth's question.   I have wondered this too and seem to have read somewhere else the Carvex barrel was bigger than the Trion and that report suggested getting the D handle Carvex because you would have the flexibility of the smaller D handle AND the barrel grip due to the switch locations on the Carvex.    Any experience or perspective on this?

I happy that you liked the review -thanks.

The Carvex's barrel is bigger than the Trion's and I do find it slightly more difficult to grip -but there is sufficient grip for me (and I have small hands) to still feel comfortable guiding the saw.  

I still am not comfortable with the switch locations and with the fact that the switch is pushed rather than pulled to turn off the saw.  I had thought that after a few hours of use I would no longer need to think about how to turn off the saw, but I still do.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:56 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2013, 02:54 PM »
Great review Frank, very through.  

Few tests -
1. cutting marble or ceramic tiles 90 and 45 degrees, following a scribe line.
2. scribing the back/sides of cabs to an uneven wall, say a 15degree back-bevel.   Following the scribe line to back bevel the ply edges.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2013, 07:00 PM »
Great review Frank, very through.  

Few tests -
1. cutting marble or ceramic tiles 90 and 45 degrees, following a scribe line.
2. scribing the back/sides of cabs to an uneven wall, say a 15degree back-bevel.   Following the scribe line to back bevel the ply edges.

Thanks nanook.

Your suggestion of cutting ceramic tiles is very timely because, now that I am back in Toronto, one of my many tasks is to install some ceramic tiles around the kitchen window that we replaced last spring:

     92294-0

With all the saws, I cut the tiles using a Festool R 45 G blade at speed 3 and with the pendulum feature turned off.

Here is the Trion about to start the task:

     92296-1

With the Carvex, I tried to use dust collection, but it was completely ineffective.  That's a disappointment.

     92298-2

I didn't bother with dust collection on the Trion and, instead blew away the dust with my mouth.  That worked better, but not as well as I would have liked.

     92300-3

I used the blower on the Bosch and that worked well:

     92302-4

As long as I could see the line, the cut with the Festool blade was very good!  The only real differences in any of the saws is that (1) the blower on the Bosch makes it much easier to see the line and (2) the light on the Carvex and the Bosch helps some.

I did try the dimpled base on the Carvex and it did not seem to make any difference.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 09:12 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2013, 06:29 AM »
Thanks for the great review!

You are very welcome.

Quote from: NJW
How bad is the Carvex without the blower and without using a dust extractor?

It depends on what it is that you are cutting.  In many cases, one can see the line even though neither a blower nor dust extraction is being used.

Quote from: NJW
Does the light help to still see your cutting line? Thanks again.

Again, it depends.  The light often helps.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2013, 12:48 PM »
cool, did you happen to time any of the tile cuts, any other comments?

I think it would be interesting to see how the carvex vs others handles back-beveling a scribe line to an uneven surface like adjusting cabinets for an install.   
you know - scribe the wall evenness on an end cab, then back bevel that line.   

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2013, 01:50 PM »
cool, did you happen to time any of the tile cuts, any other comments?

OK, I just timed a cut of 15 centimetres in a ceramic wall tile and it took me 65 seconds.  The cut was perfect.

Quote from: nanook
I think it would be interesting to see how the carvex vs others handles back-beveling a scribe line to an uneven surface like adjusting cabinets for an install.  
you know - scribe the wall evenness on an end cab, then back bevel that line.  

I do know but I don't have any uninstalled cabinets handy.  Would just doing this along the edge of a 3/4 inch piece of plywood or MDF be good enough for you?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 01:59 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2013, 04:41 PM »
cool, did you happen to time any of the tile cuts, any other comments?

OK, I just timed a cut of 15 centimetres in a ceramic wall tile and it took me 65 seconds.  The cut was perfect.

Quote from: nanook
I think it would be interesting to see how the carvex vs others handles back-beveling a scribe line to an uneven surface like adjusting cabinets for an install.  
you know - scribe the wall evenness on an end cab, then back bevel that line.  

I do know but I don't have any uninstalled cabinets handy.  Would just doing this along the edge of a 3/4 inch piece of plywood or MDF be good enough for you?

Good enough for me...

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2013, 05:48 PM »
me to - back beveling and scribing an edge with finished surfaces for installation is a really common job.    Would be good to know about chipout, ect
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 05:52 PM by nanook »

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #76 on: September 13, 2013, 07:44 AM »
Does the Carvex use the same splinter guard as the Trion?  Also, would you wait for the cordless Carvex or just get the corded one now? Thanks.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #77 on: September 13, 2013, 07:56 AM »
Does the Carvex use the same splinter guard as the Trion?  Also, would you wait for the cordless Carvex or just get the corded one now? Thanks.

Yes the splinter guards are the same on the Trion and the Carvex.

Because I work off-grid a lot, I would wait for the battery powered Carvex.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2013, 05:03 PM »
OK, there have been several requests to do the type of cut needed to scribe a cabinet in order to fit snug against a crooked wall.  I don't have any cabinets handy put I do have a 32 inch long piece of 3/4 inch walnut veneer plywood which I will use to simulate the task.  My simulated wall is a piece of 2x6 spruce one side of which I cut in a wobbly way.  Here is a photo:

92523-0

I undercut the scribe lines with an (approximate) 15 degree angle at the back.  A Festool S75/4 K fast scrolling blade was used on all saws, pendulum setting 3 saw used on all saws, and the speed was set to either 6 or to A.

Right away, I encountered a problem using the Carvex angle base:

92525-1

The part of the base that extends down gets in the way.  To solve this, I had to insert the 90 degree base and cut just outside (about 5 millimetres away from) the entire scribe line.  Once that was done, I reinserted the angle base and made the cut:

92527-2

Altough I could not use dust control, the line was always visible and the resulting cut was good.

Cutting with both the Bosch and the Trion was straightforward:

92529-3  92531-4

I used both the light and the blower on the Bosch but I doubt that the blower was needed.  

Because there is no light on the Trion it was slightly harder to see the line and the cut took about 30 seconds longer.  The cuts using both the Carvex and the Bosch took about 105 seconds.

All the cuts were excellent and there was no chipping of the plywood.  Here, for example, is the piece that I cut with the Bosch being fitted to the "wall":

92533-5
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 05:26 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2013, 06:04 PM »
Thanks for the test Frank.

So the angle shoe won't let the blade get closer than about 5mm from the edge.
You found a simple workaround that requires pre-cutting to within 5mm of the scribed line.
Obviously it takes extra time to make that first cut but it only takes seconds to switch shoes.

To make the test test more fair (and highlight the value of the snap-on shoes) you could test how long it takes to make the same cuts with the other saws. That is, going from 90* to bevel and back.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2013, 06:07 PM »
If you had a track saw handy, you could back bevel real close to the scribe with it and then use the jigsaw.


Tom

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2013, 06:25 PM »
If you had a track saw handy, you could back bevel real close to the scribe with it and then use the jigsaw.


Tom

Not if the scribe line is as wobbly as mine -but, in many cases you would be right.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2013, 06:32 PM »
Thanks for the test Frank.

So the angle shoe won't let the blade get closer than about 5mm from the edge.
You found a simple workaround that requires pre-cutting to within 5mm of the scribed line.
Obviously it takes extra time to make that first cut but it only takes seconds to switch shoes.

To make the test test more fair (and highlight the value of the snap-on shoes) you could test how long it takes to make the same cuts with the other saws. That is, going from 90* to bevel and back.

I'm not going to do the test again Michael.  But, I can estimate. 

The action of swapping out one shoe and swapping in another takes about 10 seconds, so that's 20 seconds combined.  It took me between 30 and 40 seconds to make the extra cut.  So, altogether, it took me about and extra minute.  The scribed cut itself took a little less than 2 minutes with the Bosch and the Carvex and about 30 seconds longer with the (unlighted) Trion.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2013, 07:48 PM »
Excellent pictures and description, Frank.  Seems like a good workaround that is not all that slow.

How have you found the cuts to be using the guide rail adaptor and the Carvex?  Has the inability to adjust the base to the guiderail been an issue? 

Scot

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2013, 07:57 AM »
...

It's a pain to set a jigsaw back to 90* after it's been set to some other angle. Sure most good jigsaws have notches in thier tiltable base but they almost always require further fiddling to get the saw to cut square. It would be great to simply snap back and forth between the angle base and the 90* base if that is what you need to do.

Right you are Michael and that is, indeed, what I do.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2013, 12:52 PM »
thanks Frank - looking like the Carvex is looking better and better [eek]

Offline hemlock

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2013, 01:24 PM »
Frank or others, what is your experience with the Carvex's dust collection using the guide rail base either on the tracks or for the circle cutter?   There has been some discussion in other threads about the dust collection port not fitting well on that base implying dust collection does not work well or as well as the 90degree base...thx

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2013, 01:46 PM »
thanks Frank - looking like the Carvex is looking better and better [eek]

Yes it is.   [smile] 

The Bosch is also looking better and better.  I purchased it, just to do these comparison tests and planned to sell it right away.  Now, I think that I will probably keep the Bosch as well as the battery powered Carvex.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2013, 01:53 PM »
Excellent pictures and description, Frank.  Seems like a good workaround that is not all that slow.

How have you found the cuts to be using the guide rail adaptor and the Carvex?  Has the inability to adjust the base to the guiderail been an issue? 

Scot

Thanks Scot.

There is very little play in the guide rail adapter and , since I push the same way on the saw while making the cut, the distance of the saw from the rail is not likely to vary.  Even if I did move the saw the wide of the variance, it is not likely to matter because the play is only somewhere between 1 and 3 millimetres.  I can't think of anything I have made out of wood where that would matter.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2013, 01:59 PM »
Thanks, Frank.  Great job on the review.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2013, 02:04 PM »
Frank or others, what is your experience with the Carvex's dust collection using the guide rail base either on the tracks or for the circle cutter?   There has been some discussion in other threads about the dust collection port not fitting well on that base implying dust collection does not work well or as well as the 90degree base...thx

I haven't got a Festool vac handy right now so can't check.  I will do so in a day or so.

I can tell you that the dust collection part does fit well on base in question.  If anything, the mouth of the attachment is closer to the blade on the track/circle base than it is on the standard base.  Here is a photo:

92584-0

Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

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Offline hemlock

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2013, 02:16 PM »
Frank or others, what is your experience with the Carvex's dust collection using the guide rail base either on the tracks or for the circle cutter?   There has been some discussion in other threads about the dust collection port not fitting well on that base implying dust collection does not work well or as well as the 90degree base...thx

I haven't got a Festool vac handy right now so can't check.  I will do so in a day or so.

I can tell you that the dust collection part does fit well on base in question.  If anything, the mouth of the attachment is closer to the blade on the track/circle base than it is on the standard base.  Here is a photo:

(Attachment Link)

Excellent, Frank!   There is thread on Ask Festool that is confusing, as it implied otherwise, that you seem to have clarified.   I guess like the saw, I need to go look and buy to find out for myself  [big grin]

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #92 on: September 14, 2013, 03:55 PM »
thanks Frank - looking like the Carvex is looking better and better [eek]

Yes it is.   [smile] 

The Bosch is also looking better and better.  I purchased it, just to do these comparison tests and planned to sell it right away.  Now, I think that I will probably keep the Bosch as well as the battery powered Carvex.

I have the same Bosch and I just got the circle cutter/straight-edge for it from Amazon.  To my surprise it also has a groove to allow it to be used on Festool's guide-rail, which is a nice bonus.  I like the Bosch and it works really well with Carvex blades or Trion blades.  I find I have trouble getting perfectly square cuts with thinner Bosch blades.  Could be technique, but my only complaint with the saw so far is getting it to cut 100% perpendicular.  The Festool jigsaws do so right out of the box and with different blades.

Scot

Offline Tinker

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #93 on: September 14, 2013, 04:20 PM »
Frank, I only just came across this review/report.  I have not read all of the replies, and probably won't finish for another few days; but you have done an excellent job.  I like the way you include real project type demos in your reports. 

I only tried the Carvex one time along with several other WW'ers and for me, it seemed rather clumsy as i could not get a full grip on the barrel.  I can with my Trion.  Your report, and some of the replies seem to indicate that I am not alone. 

I will continue reading on sometime tomorrow when i get tired of working on my LS equipment.  This time of year, I have to squeeze i WW'ing interests here and there as i can sneak in the time.  From what i read so far, i am thinking i will get tired of the LS equipment sooner than later.
Just a really fine job.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #94 on: September 15, 2013, 07:24 PM »
Frank or others, what is your experience with the Carvex's dust collection using the guide rail base either on the tracks or for the circle cutter?   There has been some discussion in other threads about the dust collection port not fitting well on that base implying dust collection does not work well or as well as the 90degree base...thx

I haven't got a Festool vac handy right now so can't check.  I will do so in a day or so.

I can tell you that the dust collection part does fit well on base in question.  If anything, the mouth of the attachment is closer to the blade on the track/circle base than it is on the standard base.  Here is a photo:

(Attachment Link)


Now that I have a Festool vac back in my workshed, I was able to test the dust collection of the Carvex on a rail.

I chose to rip a 120 cm long kerf in 35 mm thick spruce.  At least 95 percent of the dust was picked up.  

Here are a couple of photos:

92621-0  92623-1  

I also tried some crosscuts and the dust collection was just as good.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #95 on: September 17, 2013, 08:00 AM »
Frank, I only just came across this review/report.  I have not read all of the replies, and probably won't finish for another few days; but you have done an excellent job.  I like the way you include real project type demos in your reports

...

Just a really fine job.

Tinker

Thanks Tinker.  When I test tools, the most important customer that I am testing those tools for is me.  So, I need to test them with tasks that I really do.  It's as simple as that.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2013, 08:20 AM »
This thread was helpful. Thanks Frank and everyone else. Yesterday, I ordered the Carvex.  I went with the corded model because my work is indoors and the vac hose will be hooked up to saw anyway.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1978
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2013, 09:58 AM »
Slightly off topic but this is the first time I've heard a corded tool referred to as a main, is that common language in parts other than here?
+1

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #98 on: September 17, 2013, 10:09 AM »
Slightly off topic but this is the first time I've heard a corded tool referred to as a main, is that common language in parts other than here?

Referring to electricity that comes into a building from the "grid" as being from "the mains" is part of my vocabulary but, now that you question it, I realize that is a term that I picked up when I lived in the United Kingdom.  I guess that it is not in common use in North America.

In that I have lived and worked in the United Kingdom, in the USA, and in different regions of Canada, I find that I frequently use terms that are not familiar to the folks I am speaking to.   [embarassed]

I guess that I should change the title of the thread to refer to "corded "and "battery".
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 11:20 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #99 on: September 17, 2013, 10:22 AM »
Slightly off topic but this is the first time I've heard a corded tool referred to as a main, is that common language in parts other than here?

Referring to electricity that comes into a building from the "grid" as being from "the mains" is part of my vocabulary but, now that you question it, I realize that is a term that I picked up when I lived in the United Kingdom.  I guess that it is not in common use in North America.

In that I have lived in the United Kingdom, in the USA, and in different regions of Canada, I find that I frequently use terms that are not familiar to the folks I am speaking to.   [embarassed]

I guess that I should change the title of the thread to refer to "corded "and "battery".

If you think about it "corded" is weird too. "Electric powered" and "battery powered", but the battery powered saw is also electric.
The simpler, "jigsaw" and "cordless jigsaw" are are as concise as I can formulate.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1978
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2013, 10:41 AM »
Slightly off topic but this is the first time I've heard a corded tool referred to as a main, is that common language in parts other than here?

Referring to electricity that comes into a building from the "grid" as being from "the mains" is part of my vocabulary but, now that you question it, I realize that is a term that I picked up when I lived in the United Kingdom.  I guess that it is not in common use in North America.

In that I have lived in the United Kingdom, in the USA, and in different regions of Canada, I find that I frequently use terms that are not familiar to the folks I am speaking to.   [embarassed]

I guess that I should change the title of the thread to refer to "corded "and "battery".

Thanks for explaining the word origin. I don't mind it one bit, it's an opportunity to learn something new.
+1

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #101 on: September 18, 2013, 07:53 PM »
OK, I have more or less wrapped up testing of these saws.  

In the interest of fill disclosure, Festool generously let me keep the Carvex that I preferred.  I kept the battery power model and returned the mains powered one.

The Trion which has been a dependable and much used tool for almost two years is now for sale has now been sold and I will no longer be using it.

I am keeping the Bosch.

I can still do so testing if you have other tasks to suggest, but I can no longer do them with all four saws.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:47 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #102 on: September 24, 2013, 10:24 PM »
I gave the Carvex battery powered jigsaw an extensive workout today -as is described in the thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/cactus-coat-rack/msg277664/?topicseen#msg277664

As I reported in that thread, I needed to re-charge the battery 5 times.  It is obvious that at least two batteries will be needed if one plans to use the saw on tasks like this.  In spite of this obvious fact, Festool only supplies one 18 volt battery with the saw.    [huh]    ???  When I decided to keep the saw that I had been allowed to test, the first thing that I did was to purchase a second battery.  The job would have been intolerable if I had not done so.  As it was, the battery being used almost continuously wore out long before the other battery was re-charged.  Perhaps, I need to purchase a third battery.   [unsure]  I used the lack of a charged battery as an excuse to goof off for a while, but I am retired and can afford to do this.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 07:56 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #103 on: September 27, 2013, 09:30 AM »
This morning, I did a follow-up test to determine just how long a battery under load would last.  I used scraps left over from my Cactus coat rack (see the thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/cactus-coat-rack/msg277664/?topicseen#msg277664):

93286-0

With a fully charged 18 volt battery, the saw set at A speed, the light off, and using a fast scrolling blade, I ran two tests.  In the first test, I managed to cut for 14 minutes.  In the second, the saw cut for 16 minutes.

These times were less than I had expected.  [sad]
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline fdengel

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #104 on: September 27, 2013, 09:42 AM »
I'm in the states and have heard "mains" being used in the above suggested way numerous times in the past.  Can't speak to how common it is everywhere or remember specifically where I've heard it, but it wouldn't have stood out to me as being completely foreign either.

It always bothers me when people use "electric" to distinguish from battery-powered as they are in fact the same thing... "corded" seems to be the favored term these days, and seems completely reasonable.

I guess both the corded and battery-powered Carvex can be "hosed"...   [laughing]

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2597
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #105 on: September 27, 2013, 11:06 AM »
This morning, I did a follow-up test to determine just how long a battery under load would last.  I used scraps left over from my Cactus coat rack (see the thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/cactus-coat-rack/msg277664/?topicseen#msg277664):

(Attachment Link)

With a fully charged 18 volt battery, the saw set at A speed, the light off, and using a fast scrolling blade, I ran two tests.  In the first test, I managed to cut for 14 minutes.  In the second, the saw cut for 16 minutes.

These times were less than I had expected.  [sad]

Frank -- if you measured the length of each cut how many lineal feet of cutting would you estimate you cut on a charge?  I think that Steve Bace mentions it in one of the Carvex videos and I want to say, could be wrong here, but that it was 160 - 170 lineal feet or so.  I could see where the need for multiple batteries would be really important if using it for an extended session.  I guess I am happy that I opted for the corded version -- which for me works since I rarely need to cut anything outside of my shop.  Thanks for posting the update.   

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #106 on: September 27, 2013, 11:27 AM »

Frank -- if you measured the length of each cut how many lineal feet of cutting would you estimate you cut on a charge?  I think that Steve Bace mentions it in one of the Carvex videos and I want to say, could be wrong here, but that it was 160 - 170 lineal feet or so.  I could see where the need for multiple batteries would be really important if using it for an extended session.  I guess I am happy that I opted for the corded version -- which for me works since I rarely need to cut anything outside of my shop.  Thanks for posting the update.    

Scot, I didn't actually measure the distance I cut but my guess would be about 15 metres.  So, that is a lot less than what you recall Steve saying.  

Of course the material being cut would effect the distance.  In my case, the material being I cut was 18 mm thick Baltic birch plywood.

I will eventually test distances in different types of material and report the results in this thread.  I don't know why I didn't think of doing so earlier.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2013, 11:35 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3707
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #107 on: September 29, 2013, 09:31 AM »

Frank -- if you measured the length of each cut how many lineal feet of cutting would you estimate you cut on a charge?  I think that Steve Bace mentions it in one of the Carvex videos and I want to say, could be wrong here, but that it was 160 - 170 lineal feet or so.  I could see where the need for multiple batteries would be really important if using it for an extended session.  I guess I am happy that I opted for the corded version -- which for me works since I rarely need to cut anything outside of my shop.  Thanks for posting the update.    

Scot, I didn't actually measure the distance I cut but my guess would be about 15 metres.  So, that is a lot less than what you recall Steve saying.  

Of course the material being cut would effect the distance.  In my case, the material being I cut was 18 mm thick Baltic birch plywood.

I will eventually test distances in different types of material and report the results in this thread.  I don't know why I didn't think of doing so earlier.

Frank,
How could you? [poke]
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 844
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #108 on: September 30, 2013, 02:41 AM »
Am I the only one who finds the inability it cut an angle with both the circle cutter and the track guide annoying? I can due it with my old Festool jig saw but not the new one.:( I guess the need to cut an angled radius or a beveled strait cut no longer are needed. I am glad I did not get rid of my old one when I got the new one. Is any one else curious about this?

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #109 on: September 30, 2013, 08:00 AM »
Am I the only one who finds the inability it cut an angle with both the circle cutter and the track guide annoying? I can due it with my old Festool jig saw but not the new one.:( I guess the need to cut an angled radius or a beveled strait cut no longer are needed. I am glad I did not get rid of my old one when I got the new one. Is any one else curious about this?

I do find this annoying but not insermountable.  As I demonstrated in reply #78 in this thread, such tasks can be accomplished in two passes.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 08:14 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1978
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #110 on: September 30, 2013, 09:20 AM »
Am I the only one who finds the inability it cut an angle with both the circle cutter and the track guide annoying? I can due it with my old Festool jig saw but not the new one.:( I guess the need to cut an angled radius or a beveled strait cut no longer are needed. I am glad I did not get rid of my old one when I got the new one. Is any one else curious about this?

I do find this annoying but not insermountable.  As I demonstrated in reply #78 in this thread, such tasks can be accomplished in two passes.

That technique only works if the finish edge is convex correct?
+1

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #111 on: September 30, 2013, 01:42 PM »
Am I the only one who finds the inability it cut an angle with both the circle cutter and the track guide annoying? I can due it with my old Festool jig saw but not the new one.:( I guess the need to cut an angled radius or a beveled strait cut no longer are needed. I am glad I did not get rid of my old one when I got the new one. Is any one else curious about this?

I do find this annoying but not insermountable.  As I demonstrated in reply #78 in this thread, such tasks can be accomplished in two passes.

That technique only works if the finish edge is convex correct?

It can be very slightly concave but, for the most part, you are correct.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 900
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #112 on: September 30, 2013, 04:12 PM »
I'm a Carvex 420 user, I got the 15v 3mAh model to save money with the intention of getting a drill with the new 18v 4.2mAh batteries. IMO that's the smartest way to upgrade your battery park. Then each additional battery spreads out the cost of having cordless tools in mulitple, with say four batteries for two tools you can always be charging 2 of them in a Jigsaw session then say one in use one on standby, and two in the chargers...

I just love using a jigsaw without a cable for outdoor work, it's the one tool that benefits the most from being freed from it's cable from a egronomics point of view.. Of course this only if you don't us Dust extraction..
RO 150, 850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 844
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #113 on: October 01, 2013, 02:04 AM »
I have reread post 78. I do. It think that technique will give the same quality of cut as a single pass guide created cut. While you suggest a plausible solution, I think it is still a design short coming that should not exist for a tool company that produces tools of this quality.

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #114 on: October 01, 2013, 09:13 AM »
I have reread post 78. I do. It think that technique will give the same quality of cut as a single pass guide created cut. While you suggest a plausible solution, I think it is still a design short coming that should not exist for a tool company that produces tools of this quality.

I agree with your statement that I have marked in bold.  [sad]

I wonder if we will see after market bases to solve these problems?  ???  I am thinking of a couple of designs that might work and might experiment with them sometime down the road -not to manuafacture but just to see if I can do it for my own use.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2597
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #115 on: October 02, 2013, 01:50 PM »
I have reread post 78. I do. It think that technique will give the same quality of cut as a single pass guide created cut. While you suggest a plausible solution, I think it is still a design short coming that should not exist for a tool company that produces tools of this quality.

I agree with your statement that I have marked in bold.  [sad]

I wonder if we will see after market bases to solve these problems?  ???  I am thinking of a couple of designs that might work and might experiment with them sometime down the road -not to manuafacture but just to see if I can do it for my own use.

Yes...this is a short coming for this application.  I think one type of cut is easy to do with a simple plate screwed to the angle base, but for circles it is an issue for sure and it would require a new style base.  Maybe the plate could easily adapt the clips of the circle cutter.  I am going to have to play around with this...

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #116 on: October 13, 2013, 12:21 PM »

Frank -- if you measured the length of each cut how many lineal feet of cutting would you estimate you cut on a charge?  I think that Steve Bace mentions it in one of the Carvex videos and I want to say, could be wrong here, but that it was 160 - 170 lineal feet or so.  I could see where the need for multiple batteries would be really important if using it for an extended session.  I guess I am happy that I opted for the corded version -- which for me works since I rarely need to cut anything outside of my shop.  Thanks for posting the update.    

Scot, I didn't actually measure the distance I cut but my guess would be about 15 metres.  So, that is a lot less than what you recall Steve saying.  

Of course the material being cut would effect the distance.  In my case, the material being I cut was 18 mm thick Baltic birch plywood.

I will eventually test distances in different types of material and report the results in this thread.  I don't know why I didn't think of doing so earlier.

I did do the some tests but decided to report them in a separate thread.  That thread is: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/battery-(18-volt)-carvex-420-distance-tests-in-many-types-of-wood/#new
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #117 on: February 07, 2014, 09:14 PM »

Even after 8 months of frequent use, I still don't like the position of the switches nor the fact that one pushes forward on a switch in order to turn it off.

When I first tried the saw, I commented:

  • I am used to operating the trigger with my thumb and this is not easily done now that the switches are so far forward.  I expect that I will get used to operating the switch with a finger, but that is going to take me some time.  The new position of the switch would take some getting used to.  


After using it for about a month, I said:

  • Another difference from my other Festool tools is that one pushes on the switch again to shut off the Carvex saws rather than pull back on the switch.  Today, I had an experience that warned me to get use to it soon.  I needed to shut off the saw quickly but it took me about 5 second to locate the switch.  All that happened as a result of this delay was a somewhat screwed up cut, but it could have been much worse.  

I really did think I would get accustomed to the strange location and operation of the switch but this is not happening.  That's a shame because, otherwise, I love the saw.

Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #118 on: February 08, 2014, 05:02 AM »

Even after 8 months of frequent use, I still don't like the position of the switches nor the fact that one pushes forward on a switch in order to turn it off.

When I first tried the saw, I commented:

  • I am used to operating the trigger with my thumb and this is not easily done now that the switches are so far forward.  I expect that I will get used to operating the switch with a finger, but that is going to take me some time.  The new position of the switch would take some getting used to.  


After using it for about a month, I said:

  • Another difference from my other Festool tools is that one pushes on the switch again to shut off the Carvex saws rather than pull back on the switch.  Today, I had an experience that warned me to get use to it soon.  I needed to shut off the saw quickly but it took me about 5 second to locate the switch.  All that happened as a result of this delay was a somewhat screwed up cut, but it could have been much worse.  

I really did think I would get accustomed to the strange location and operation of the switch but this is not happening.  That's a shame because, otherwise, I love the saw.



I totally agree! 

Thing is I am accustomed to the switch but in situations where you suddenly need to switch the Carvex of because you hit something making your carvex bounce no mater how accustomed you are you ain't finding the switch very fast!

What I have starting doing now is just quickly pull the jigsaw away from the work piece as soon as something like this happens.

Jmb
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Offline Jason Kehl

  • Posts: 114
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #119 on: February 08, 2014, 07:46 AM »
Perhaps I missed it if someone adresses this already, but for the Carvex 420 users; how effective are the improvments to cut-line visibility over the Trion?  I do a wide variety of carpentry work and one use is to cut holes in 1.5" thick green treated decking where the deck newel posts go. Will I be able to see the cut-line with no vac attached to pull the dust away? Does visibility depend on the use, or lack of use of the splinter guard?

Thanks guys

J

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #120 on: February 08, 2014, 08:48 AM »


I totally agree!  

Thing is I am accustomed to the switch but in situations where you suddenly need to switch the Carvex of because you hit something making your carvex bounce no mater how accustomed you are you ain't finding the switch very fast!

What I have starting doing now is just quickly pull the jigsaw away from the work piece as soon as something like this happens.

Jmb

Yes, that is exactly the problem.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

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Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2597
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #121 on: February 08, 2014, 05:28 PM »
Perhaps I missed it if someone adresses this already, but for the Carvex 420 users; how effective are the improvments to cut-line visibility over the Trion?  I do a wide variety of carpentry work and one use is to cut holes in 1.5" thick green treated decking where the deck newel posts go. Will I be able to see the cut-line with no vac attached to pull the dust away? Does visibility depend on the use, or lack of use of the splinter guard?

Thanks guys

J

I find the visibility much improved, with or without DC. 

Scot

Offline Woodhack

  • Posts: 26
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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #122 on: February 08, 2014, 06:38 PM »
Excellent!

 [thanks]
I sipped the green kool-aid as a painter and started with:
RTS 400 EQ, RO 90, and ct 26 with WCR 1000 on top. I now have the Carvex PS 420 with accessory kit, FS 1400/2 LR32 guide rail. Ts 55, 0f 1400, 2nd ct 26, sys roll,

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #123 on: February 08, 2014, 07:19 PM »
Perhaps I missed it if someone adresses this already, but for the Carvex 420 users; how effective are the improvments to cut-line visibility over the Trion?  I do a wide variety of carpentry work and one use is to cut holes in 1.5" thick green treated decking where the deck newel posts go. Will I be able to see the cut-line with no vac attached to pull the dust away? Does visibility depend on the use, or lack of use of the splinter guard?

Thanks guys

J

I find the visibility much improved, with or without DC. 

Scot
So do I.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Jason Kehl

  • Posts: 114
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #124 on: February 08, 2014, 10:53 PM »
Thanks guys.

Offline FulThrotl

  • Posts: 100
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #125 on: February 16, 2014, 07:50 AM »
The idea that a jigsaw is someones 2nd most used tool is very interesting to me. Obviously it depends on what the person does but I do a wide variety of jobs and don't find it out nearly that often to be close to 2nd. A jigsaw packs up easily and is light to move around, show me more...

i'm currently using my battery carvex in the field so i don't have to drag a genset with me for power.
it's doing most of the jobs i'd use a sawzall for, and all of the jobs i'd be using a circular saw for.

i'm currently running 4", 5", and 6" PVC electrical conduit underground, and doing related concrete
form work. with a long bosch bimetal blade, it'll cut wood, pvc, and steel all equally well, and the
batteries last a loooong time.
... it's not good.... my festool dealer
knows me by my first name....
...i'm suspecting i'm his 401K.....

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #126 on: February 16, 2014, 12:56 PM »
The idea that a jigsaw is someones 2nd most used tool is very interesting to me. Obviously it depends on what the person does but I do a wide variety of jobs and don't find it out nearly that often to be close to 2nd. A jigsaw packs up easily and is light to move around, show me more...

i'm currently using my battery carvex in the field so i don't have to drag a genset with me for power.
it's doing most of the jobs i'd use a sawzall for, and all of the jobs i'd be using a circular saw for.

i'm currently running 4", 5", and 6" PVC electrical conduit underground, and doing related concrete
form work. with a long bosch bimetal blade, it'll cut wood, pvc, and steel all equally well, and the
batteries last a loooong time.

Are you using the new 4.2 amp batteries?  My saw came with the older 2.6 amp battery and it certainly does NOT last a loooong time.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Artom

  • Posts: 2
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #127 on: March 20, 2014, 08:41 PM »
Hi Frank,

Outstanding review. Your effort is impressive as is your findings.

I just noticed that a lot of questions goes in the way of dust extraction and being able to follow a line despite sawdust in front of the blade. Having read all post in this thread I don't think anyone mentioned the "shadow arrow" cast by the light in front of the saw.
I have the 400 D handle, and find this "light guide" very comfortable, especially when handling the saw directly from above, not being able to se the blade without bending over in awkward manners. This happens more often on sites when ripping sheets with the arm reached far out, than in the shop where you might have better ergonomics and need higher precision, but never the less is very handy in most situations. Also when starting a new cut its nice to be guided to the line even before the blade ever touches the workpiece.

Thomas

Offline DanielOB

  • Posts: 148
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #128 on: September 07, 2014, 09:10 PM »
Frank, are u at Manitoulin Island

Offline #Tee

  • Posts: 786
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #129 on: September 07, 2014, 09:33 PM »
The weight, blade ejection and barrel grip sold me on the carvex(corded)....but actually the blade ejection was like 69% of the reason lol. its a nice tool to have but for what i use it for i can go months without using it.

great review! i hope festool let you keep everything!
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

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Offline StefenC

  • Posts: 1
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #130 on: November 16, 2014, 08:41 PM »
One thing I noticed in the original review was the comment of the lack of a blower on the Carvex. My Carvex definitely has a blower - esp. noticeable when the chip deflector is raised. And I find the ability to track to a line pretty easy - even with the deflector down and splinter guard in place.
Regarding inability to eject blades with the splinter guard in place. I take the base plate off first. Slightly more time consuming, but I also tend to use a particular blade with a particular base/splinterguard, so I don't remove the splinter guard when changing blades, just the base to which it is attached.
e.g. 145mm blade fast blade for rough work - dimpled base (no splinter guard)
       Fine scroll blade - phenolic base
       Bi-metal blade - standard base
       Metal cutting blade - metal base
Overall I find the cordless Carvex to be the most all-round useful jigsaw I've ever used
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 10:35 PM by StefenC »

Offline wow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #131 on: November 17, 2014, 02:16 AM »
One thing I noticed in the original review was the comment of the lack of a blower on the Carvex. My Carvex definitely has a blower - esp. noticeable when the chip deflector is raised. And I find the ability to track to a line pretty easy - even with the deflector down and splinter guard in place.
Regarding inability to eject blades with the splinter guard in place. I take the base plate off first. Slightly more time consuming, but I also tend to use a particular blade with a particular base/splinterguard, so I don't remove the splinter guard when changing blades, just the base to which it is attached.
e.g. 145mm blade fast blade for rough work - dimpled base (no splinter guard)
       Fine scroll blade - phenolic base
       Bi-metal blade - standard base
       Metal cutting blade - metal base
Overall I find the cordless Carvex to be the most all-round useful jigsaw I've ever used
StefenC:

[welcome] to the FOG.

You joined in 2009 and this is your first post? You are truly a man of few words, then!

Nice to see you active here...
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2014, 08:39 PM »
The weight, blade ejection and barrel grip sold me on the carvex(corded)....but actually the blade ejection was like 69% of the reason lol. its a nice tool to have but for what i use it for i can go months without using it.

great review! i hope festool let you keep everything!

I'm glad that somebody likes the blade ejection system on the Carvex.  I certainly do not like it.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline L.J

  • Posts: 110
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2015, 07:46 PM »
Why did Festool decide not to put a battery meter on the Carvex,a big disappointment. If not then they should start putting the meters on the batteries.
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Offline Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 27
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #134 on: January 11, 2019, 02:37 PM »
Frank,

I'm sorry if you've addressed this elsewhere and I am certainly sorry for dredging up such an old thread but did you ever get comfortable with the switch positions and operation? Every time I put my hands on a Carvex with a barrel grip I can't help but feel like the knob fits my hand poorly, neither switch is accessible in a comfortable manner for any of my fingers, and neither power switch works in a way that I could adjust to. I have always written this off to my 30 years of familiarity with cheap, D-handle saws.

I am finally getting to the point where I would like to invest in a new jigsaw and I really want to like the Carvex. I also really want to like a barrel grip saw but I am afraid that maybe that trick is too new for this old dog. In any event, your review - and the rest of your commentary in this thread - is still the best resource on the internet regarding the Carvex but I feel like it could benefit from the 5 year look back.

Did you learn to love it? Did you sell the saw? Did all of its wonderful features cause you to continue to use it despite your long time discomfort? Inquiring minds (one anyway) are dying to know.

Again, I'm sorry for dragging this thread from its grave and I hope you're well.

Best,

Reed

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1081
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #135 on: January 11, 2019, 07:28 PM »
I am not Frank, but maybe I can answer your questions. I have 2 corded barrel grip Carvexs & 2 cordless d handle Carvexs. 1 of each in my work truck & 1 of each in my shop. I like the barrel grip saws, but I do not like the slide switch location on them. I use the d handle saws the most, but it is because they are cordless. The d handle saws can be held as barrel grip & they also have the barrel grip slide switches. I cannot say that I prefer one over the other. I like both.

I also have corded Trion barrel grip & d handle saws. I cannot remember the last time I used those. I like the location of the slide switch on the Trion better than the Carvex, but overall I like the Carvex better.   

Offline Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 27
Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons
« Reply #136 on: January 12, 2019, 08:28 PM »
Thanks, JD. I keep hearing the D handle can work as a barrel grip but my hand is just too big to handle it that way.