Author Topic: Festool Centrotec compatibility with other manufacturers (cordless) drills  (Read 8819 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 406
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
    • Portfolio
Hi everyone,

A question brought up in another forum got me to compose this and I thought it might contain some valuable information also for international Festool users and people in general who might look into Festool Centrotec accessories. So I re-wrote it in english to post here.

This is about usability of Festool Centrotec accessories with other manufacturers machines.

As far as I know there is only one manufacturer, namely Metabo, who's "Quick"-System will accept the Festool Centrotec chuck directly without using any adapter.

So if you want to use the key features of the Festool Centrotec system (better concentricity & easy and fast changing of tools) on another manufacturers (cordless) drill you need an adapter. For now, I'd like to stay away from a discussion about concentricity because there are way to many aspects that play into it - it's something each user, looking at his/her machines has to decide for him-/herself.

So back to the question, can Festool Centrotec accessories be used with other manufacturers machinery?

The answer is yes, as long as the other machine has a keyless/regular chuck that has a capacity/span length of at least 10 mm / 3/8".

What you are going to need are two things: Festool Keyless Chuck Centrotec Adapter - 496450 (Costs 22.00 USD as of 2/9/2017) and Festool Centrotec Chuck - 492135 (Costs 37.00 USD as of 2/9/2017)

Please also understand that the Festool Keyless Chuck Centrotec Adapter's hex portion is significantly wider than the standard 6,4 mm/ 1/4" hex portion of tooling/hex chucks. This will not fit any 6,4 mm/ 1/4" hex (quick change) chucks.

With these two accessories you can use any Festool Centrotec tools with any (cordless) drill that, again, has a chuck with minimum capacity/ span length of at least 10 mm / 3/8".

Pictures speak louder than words ;)

Start - Festool CXS and Bosch GSR 10,8. CXS equipped with Centrotec bitholder, GSR equipped with Wera fast change bitholder.


Now the GSR is equipped with Festool Keyless Chuck Centrotec Adapter and Festool Centrotec Chuck


As said before - now it's compatible with all Festool Centrotec tools.


The Festool Bitholder is compatible with  all 6,4 mm/ 1/4" hex Bits, in this instance Wera bit.


Not pretty, but also doable - putting Festool Centrotec tools directly into a chuck. All Festool Centrotec tools can be placed in any standard 6,4 mm/ 1/4" hex bitholder - but will be held only by friction and/or magnet. The missing notches on the hex part prevent fast change bitholders to lock onto the tool/bit.


Just a comparison shot of both machines with no tools.



_____________________________________________________________________________________________________


My thoughts:

You can use adapters to work with Festool Centrotec accessories on almost any (cordless) drill. If it makes sense for you to do/use/buy that is up to you.

I think if you have a big load of Festool Centrotec accessories it's a great idea to get the adapters so you can easily use and swap tools throughout all of your machines. However, you should consider that adding the adapters will add significantly to the length of your machine. Which might be a disadvantage depending on the task ahead.

One last thing to say, Festool Centrotec accessories, and accessories in general are some of the highest quality tools you can get so it might be a game changer already just being able to use these with your non-Festool (cordless) drill.

I hope you find this information useful and maybe future questions about Centrotec compatibility can be directed to this thread.

Please feel free to add your thoughts and experiences.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Rusty Miller

  • Posts: 231
Where do you get those Wera vex type bits?
Rusty Miller
I'd rather be woodworking!


I have a Mafell A18M and a Metabo LTX and I think they are the (currently) best "cross platform" drills. Strong and flexible. I have the T18+3 and I like it too but the A18M is a better drill in terms of sheer power for drilling in wood and the Impuls mode which is really handy. Since I have loads of Centrotec stuff I run them on the Mafell seating the drill bits deep into the chuck - as intended - and can change over to regular bitholders in an instant - or use the Metabo quick change bit holder/chuck. I am very happy with that. 

EDIT: in your image you have the keyless chuck attached to a Bosch drill chuck to fit a regular bit - via the Centrotec chuck.  [eek] Why do that? There is no point. You already have the excellent Wera bitholder. It just makes it clumsy and heavy. I get that if you were using the Centrotec drill bits it would make (more) sense. :)

When attaching the Centrotec bitholder or drills straight into drill chucks I never go over the round part on the shaft as you show in the picture - that causes slippage - so I just insert to the rim of the round part so the chuck jaws grip the
hex part in the end; no slippage. But I very seldom have to do that as my main drills all have Centrotec compatibility.

For hammer drills the SDS adapter makes sense as it allows for the drill chuck to be used. That is good. For bits onto a hammer drill there already exists rock solid locking bitholders. Again, fitting a Centrotec keyless chuck makes no sense in that regard. 

I have the Festool keyless chuck in a drawer but think there is no point in having one. A Wiha Centrofix bit holder does it better for regular drills as it positively locks Centrotec bits/drills which means that if you can use it on both a drill with a hex bit holder and one with a drill chuck or in a pinch, straight on to the bit holder on drills with removable chucks. I don't think the Festool drill chuck is good enough to warrant using the keyless chuck to fit it to another drill so for me it is simply redundant. With regular drill chucks I prefer just sticking the Centrotec drill bits right into the chuck.

The Fein ASCM 12 is another fantastic little drill and it (now) comes with a Wiha Centrofix chuck so it will also accept Centrotec - as well as regular hex drills and bits. The Centrotec chuck does not fit the Fein ASCM 12 (the diameter on the bare bit chuck is a hair thicker so it won't fit, neither does Metabo/Mafell on Fein) so drill bits will extend a little further but at least it is a workable solution.

The Fein 18V quick in MAX chuck fits on Metabo with a little work (grinding down the metal base a fraction of a mm to enable the ball detent to lock) and it too has a Centrofix attachment. I run that one as a spare. The Fein 12V quick change chuck arrives tomorrow or possibly monday so I am not sure if ot would fit on Festool but I doubt it though the opening diameter suggests it could I think the ball detent is incompatible.

Fein has Quick IN (60NM) and Quick IN MAX (120NM) rated chucks and accessories and they work "downstream".



« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 01:47 AM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3777
... As far as I know there is only one manufacturer, namely Metabo, who's "Quick"-System will accept the Festool Centrotec chuck directly without using any adapter.
...

Correct, the Metabo/Mafell takes the green lipped centrotec better than OJ's glove.
I am not sure if the Mafell 1/4"  '├žentrotec' would fit on the Festool, but I would think it would.

that could be a good option for people liking the centrotec concept, but using their 1/4" bits.
I got a few from Ebay or maybe Amazon Eu... so I have the 1 greeny, and the 3 red lipped jobs.

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 406
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
    • Portfolio
Hi!


(...)

EDIT: in your image you have the keyless chuck attached to a Bosch drill chuck to fit a regular bit - via the Centrotec chuck.  [eek] Why do that? There is no point. You already have the excellent Wera bitholder. It just makes it clumsy and heavy. I get that if you were using the Centrotec drill bits it would make (more) sense. :)

(...)


Because, as I already stated in my post the question that lead me to compose it was about compatibility & possibility. Not about usability or if certain combinations make sense when other (compatible) solutions are available.


(...)

When attaching the Centrotec bitholder or drills straight into drill chucks I never go over the round part on the shaft as you show in the picture - that causes slippage - so I just insert to the rim of the round part so the chuck jaws grip the
hex part in the end; no slippage. But I very seldom have to do that as my main drills all have Centrotec compatibility.

(...)



Me neither. It just looks that way because of the angle of the picture - of course I used the hex part to clamp/chuck.

Kind regards,
Oliver



Ok, Oliver, got it. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

POST HEAVILY EDITED AFTER RETESTING COMPATIBILITY:

Holmz: Metabo/Mafell bitholder does not fit Festool. The throat of the machine side bit socket is a hair too thick.

Fein (18V only) bitholder fits Festool though - so the excellent Centrofix (made by Wiha, I think) can be used on Festool:



So compatibility seems to be (as tested):

FESTOOL Centrotec fits on Festool and Metabo/Mafell.
 - Does not fit Fein ASCM 12 which has a slightly larger outer diameter on the machine fixed bit holder. 

FEIN 18V Quick In chuck fits on Fein 18V, Festool and Metabo/Mafell after a minor grind down of the base
 - but DOES NOT fit on the Fein ASCM12 due to the ASCM 12 having a slightly larger outer diameter (despite being lower class NM on bit holder).*)

FEIN 12V Quick In chuck and drill chuck DOES NOT LOCK on any other machines due to ball detents having different placement.

METABO/MAFELL bitholder (made by Wera, I think) only fits on Metabo/Mafell due to smallest inner diameter.
- Not compatible with the others - but Fein 18V and Festool fit Metabo/Mafell. **)

MILWAUKEE has a different machine side bit holder fixing which is partially square so none of the above fits.

BOSCH new 12V Flexi Click is incompatible to all above due to having a locking bit holder on the machine side.

*) Hence the new bitholder for Fein 12V, classed to 60NM. Supposedly fits Quick In and Quick In Max so might also fit the 18V drills but the ball detent suggests it does not.
- it DOES NOT fit Festool or Metabo/Mafell due to placement of ball detents.

**) Festool fits straight away on Metabo/Mafell. Fein had to be ground down a fraction to lock in place on Festool. Did not test the Fein bit chuck on Metabo/Mafell before grinding it down so cannot say if it would fit without mod.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:04 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 406
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
    • Portfolio
Hi!

@Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits Thank you very much for the additional input and pictures, much appreciated!!

Kind regards,
Oliver

Oliver: you are welcome. Feel free to proof read and make sure I did not miss anything or got something wrong.
I did a massive edit of the post to clarify a little and added some info. Hope you read the last version. :)

When I get the last piece of the puzzle I can add some more pictures to incorporate all possibilities of the various chucks. I just got the Fein ASCM 12 and the new bitholder is en route and should arrive Monday. The Fein drill is fantastic. It does not have an angle chuck out yet but I have it on good authority that one is ready for production. They might release a kit on the market with all the relevant chucks later on this year so I am keeping my fingers crossed. The Fein ASCM 12 might replace _both_ the T18 and the CXS as my go to drill for kitchen builds and interior work. A pair of them would meet all my requirements in that regard. The precision in driving challenges the T18 and is at least on par. The only thing I have left to wish for when it comes to the Fein drill is Impuls mode. ;)

I won't get rid of the CXS though, it always has a place for me but the T18 is relegated to the work shop for all eternity and the Mafell A18M is my power drill for heavier applications - the latter a no brainer as I can use all my countersink and Centrotec drill bits without fuss. Never thought I'd see the day when I dropped my Festool drills for the competition but so it seems.  [eek]
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 03:15 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1951
I read, then reread this thread. Interesting reading.
 I can add that even in the 'normal' 1/4" quick change bit world outside of Festool/Centrotec, I've encountered bits that won't fit every 1/4" chuck, but are fine with a Wera Chuck or some chuck that accepts what ever slight variant in the Ball detent section of the offending bits that was an issue. So, even with what is supposedly a universal system of the 1/4" QC, you can run into problems.
 Granted, it's a rare thing, but it does happen.   [sad]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

I have heard from a local Fein dealer that Fein are refreshing their 18V line so there will be new chucks and bitchucks, which explains why the 12V Fein is not compatible with the current 18V. The new line will be with the same throat diameter as the 12V - which is larger.  I have kept pestering them with the release of the right angle chuck and he has confirmed that one is on the way. He was shown an actual picture of the right angle chuck by the Fein rep.

Not sure when the new 18V line is out but apparently soon. I personally think the current Fein 18V line is way oversized and clumsy. Hoping Fein will bring out something a little more streamlined.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1169
The new ones are still not as slim as the latest Makita or Panasonic impacts.
And batteries also look big. Hope these are made in Germany.
Have not seen pictures yet of the new chucks.
ASCD 18 200W4 impact
ASCD 18 300W2 wrench


Festoolian since 1998.
FESTOOL:
SYSROCK BR10 | SYSLITE KAL II | SV-SYS D14 | DSC-AG125FH | CDD9.6 | SYSLITE DUO | DF700 | HKC55 | TXS2.6 | CTL SYS | CXS2.6 | DWC18 | CTWings | BHC18 | CS50 | CMS-OF | MFT/3 | MFT/3-VL | KS120 | TS55 R | PSC420 | PS420 | BS75 | RAS115 | RO90 | RO150 | DTS400 | RS400 | RTS400 | RS300 | LS130 | DX93 | ETS150/5 | ETS150/3 | OF1010 | OF1400 | OFK500 | MFK700 | T18 | EHL65 | CTL26 | CTL22 | CTL MIDI | WCR1000 | D27-AS Plug-it | D36 UNI-RS | D36x7 | D50x2.5 | FS800 | FS800/2 | FS1080/2 | FS1400/2 (2x) | FS3000/2 | FSK250 | FSK420 | Gecko Dosh | Toolie | CE-SYS-2010 | RB-SYS CART (2x) | LEV1400 | LEV350 | SYS-MFT
PROTOOL:
CHP26 | PDC18 | FLC UNI | VCP260 | DSC-AGP125 | DSC-AGP230 | DSG-AGP125 | DRP16

Well, they look "better" than the previous line, it is a step in the right direction.
The batteries still look pretty hefty but they might not weigh that much.
They look a generation behind in size though, if the Metabo LiHD and Festool 3,1Ah are a reference to go by.

The batteries are likely to be 5,2/5,5Ah batteries on the images though so maybe Fein has some compact 3-ish Ah batteries up their sleeve.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2017, 12:32 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.