Author Topic: Festool quality?  (Read 23536 times)

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Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 162
Festool quality?
« on: February 25, 2017, 07:30 PM »
Curious to hear people's general impressions on the quality of Festool products over the past 10 years or so? Has the quality remained steady or do some feel it is declining? I don't really have an opinion either way. But I will say part of me is under the impression that the quality of the tools has ebbed and flowed over generations. It seems under moderate use the tools may be performing at one level but under more extreme conditions like general contracting the tools may be at a different level? So I guess with that I am suggesting "quality" is somewhat relative depending on the type of use. That said it seems every power tool ought to be engineered and designed for rough constant abuse. Maybe for some the verdict is still out on Festool in this regard, or, maybe all of this is clear as day to others? 

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Offline awil66

  • Posts: 130
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2017, 07:55 PM »
I use my tools hard in a contractor setting and it shows. Kapex, Rotex 150, ts55 have a lot of hours on them and certainly don't look pristine. You really don't have to baby them. My newest is an of1400 last spring and the only thing it didn't like was running a lock miter on the edge of a 3/4" plywood sheet. Motor electronics shut it down. But that is really pushing it. Unfortunately you can't run a lock miter in successive passes.
Once it cooled down and I took a slower feed rate all was good.
I have not thought that quality has declined at all.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2017, 08:36 PM »
Personally I don't feel that quality of the tools has declined.  Do you read about more issues here now?  Yes.  There will always be a percentage of tools that go bad and the more tools you have out in circulation will increase those numbers even if the percentage of failures is the same or lower than what it once was.

Additionally because the popularity of this site there is more information out there than before and therefore more conversations about tools.

When I first met Christian and talked about the tools he told me to not treat my tools as boutique tools and use them and use them hard.  I have followed that advice and have treated mine as instruments designed to earn a living.  So far no tool repairs in my history.

Peter
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1936
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2017, 09:43 PM »
I use tools of all different sorts of brands every day. Cordless , electric and pneumatic.  I don't experience failures with any of them , but I almost never buy lower level quality either. I've owned Festool products since 2004.  I'm like Peter in that I've never had to send one in for repair.  I wore out the outlet on my CT-22 Vac and Festool sent a new style version to me in the mail. That's my extent of Festool failure, but again, even with every day use, I never seem to break anyone's tools..
If they're slipping in Quality, I haven't seen it.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3661
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2017, 10:15 PM »
Well it depends on how you define quality, which you mentioned.
There is the design / R&D / engineering.
Then there is the push to reduce manufacturing costs. So quality of the end product has all the materials and manufacturing wound up in it as well as the basic design.

The quality and design of the other manufactures tools has been going both ways. Snap-on seems to have declined, or at least they have a blue version that is not top shelf.
And then other woodwork power tools have gained a lot on the dust collection front. This to my mind somewhat narrows the gap which existed in the past.

I did have to send in my CT26 but it was not too much of a drama.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3074
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 02:07 AM »
Snap-on seems to have declined, or at least they have a blue version that is not top shelf.

The Blue Point variation has been around for at least the last 50 years, possibly even longer than that. If memory serves me correctly, the original Blue Point tools were specifically mechanic hand tools struck with a hammer, think cold chisels and punches. As such, they ONLY had a 5 year warranty as opposed to a lifetime warranty.

I own both variants and other than the finishing being absolutely beautiful on a Snap-on tool while being just very nice on a Blue Point tool, there is no difference in functional quality.

I also think that Festool quality has not significantly changed over the years. I'm happy with and will continue to purchase all 3 brands of tools.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:28 AM by Cheese »

Online Kev

  • Posts: 7569
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 02:33 AM »
I think Festool's quality is generally pretty good, but some of their obvious outside supplier bits and pieces are not so good.

KAPEX-gate has tarnished the quality image a fair bit, along with CARVEX issues and the TS55REQ recalls.

Festool are certainly premium tools and you pay accordingly, but if you set your expectations too high you're likely to be dissapointed.




Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 482
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 03:42 AM »
I'd have to say yes, i do feel that FT quality has lessend. But that might well be due to the fact that i'm hanging out in the forum too much, as @PeterHalle has said. One reads more about failures, hence my impression. That said: i bought an old AP 85 circ saw recently and compared it to the HK 85 and the older saw looks and feels like it's build better, more hefty..
Just for today..

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 807
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 07:16 AM »
I'd say it is hit and miss.

Tools like the Domino 500 & XL, the ETS EC sanders, the Rotex and the EHL planers feel really solid. Others feel acceptable.

But yesterday I had a little play with the KS 60 at my local Axminster and I found it to be cheap looking and feeling. The housing and handle felt hollow and cheap. The rails finish on the rails looked a bit bright and shiny like cheap Chinese mass production. The feel of the switch was significantly less positive and more flimsy feeling than a £200 Dewalt next to it. I wondered given it is only ~ 4KG lighter than the Kapex 120, where the comparative  extra weight had gone, given it felt so cheap.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 103
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 07:45 AM »
Snap-on seems to have declined, or at least they have a blue version that is not top shelf.

The Blue Point variation has been around for at least the last 50 years, possibly even longer than that.

My Dad earned his living as a mechanic in the late 1930s...I have some of his tools including both Snap-on and some Blue Points so that takes it back at least 80-ish years.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3074
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 09:23 AM »
My Dad earned his living as a mechanic in the late 1930s...I have some of his tools including both Snap-on and some Blue Points so that takes it back at least 80-ish years.

Thanks for that... [smile]...I just remember buying a couple of cold chisels from the Snap-on truck when I was about 18 and I was surprised to see the Blue Point moniker on them at the time.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1893
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 10:26 AM »
That said it seems every power tool ought to be engineered and designed for rough constant abuse.

Are you speaking of just Festool here?
+1

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 850
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 10:36 AM »
I have a heavy duty sander from Festool RS 300 EQ. It feels very solid, it was relatively more expensive than the lighter newer version sanders at the time. It feels like it will last a long time. Newer tools are making use of advances in plastics metal, etc so they feel lighter, that might make them seem less well built. But in actual use the new tools work as well or better than older versions. Maybe som of the older tools will last longer, but for my usage the lifetime of my present newer tools is likely just fine. Also having a variety of tools means I don't have to use the wrong tool for the job..
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1936
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2017, 03:05 PM »
Snap-on seems to have declined, or at least they have a blue version that is not top shelf.

The Blue Point variation has been around for at least the last 50 years, possibly even longer than that. If memory serves me correctly, the original Blue Point tools were specifically mechanic hand tools struck with a hammer, think cold chisels and punches. As such, they ONLY had a 5 year warranty as opposed to a lifetime warranty.

I own both variants and other than the finishing being absolutely beautiful on a Snap-on tool while being just very nice on a Blue Point tool, there is no difference in functional quality.

I also think that Festool quality has not significantly changed over the years. I'm happy with and will continue to purchase all 3 brands of tools.
. Blue Point label is also used by Snap- On when they don't make the tool but are buying it from someone else. Side by side wrench comparisons often show lower cost construction with thicker wrench bodies than a Snap- On wrench and a less polished finish as well. Performance wise, they have held up just fine for me since the mid '80s when I bought a set from Snap-On just starting out as a Tech.
Another interesting comparison is the Industrial Finish Tools that Snap-On offers where a traditional chrome finish is not wanted or needed. That was another way people buying from Snap-On have saved a bit of money when making purchases.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1073
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2017, 07:20 PM »
I'd have to say yes, i do feel that FT quality has lessend. But that might well be due to the fact that i'm hanging out in the forum too much, as @PeterHalle has said. One reads more about failures, hence my impression. That said: i bought an old AP 85 circ saw recently and compared it to the HK 85 and the older saw looks and feels like it's build better, more hefty..

Don't let the weight fool you.  Microwave ovens were extremely heavy when they first appeared on the market.  Now, they are light as a feather.

Lithium batteries are much better than alkaline's.  Lithium's are lighter weight, last longer in use and in long term storage.

Same with the old tube TV's and the new flat screens.  Heavier is not always better quality or necessarily more durable.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:01 PM by RobBob »

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 482
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2017, 11:48 PM »
Aye, i realize weight doesn't equal quality. And you're right about materials 'evolving'. But, subjectivly, the AP felt to be of a higher quality...
Just for today..

Offline aloysius

  • Posts: 119
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2017, 01:14 AM »
Festo/ol still make some outstanding quality tools:  the Deltex DX93E, the HL850E, BS75E/BS105 & the RS1/RS100 are particular examples of ongoing quality.  Having said that, it's interesting to note these are all 20,30 or even 40 year old designs, made from quality materials in a manner to ensure a long & relatively reliable lifespan.

Interesting because all the "bought in" componentry, such as carbon brushes, bearings, copper, PVC & rubber cabling & windings and undoubtedly some hard & soft metal castings, extrusions and turnings will be from an ever-diminishing suite of "quality" suppliers, many of which have suffered a collateral demise to that of the overall German domestic machine tool industry.  Take the rather poor 3rd party supply of inadequately lightweight 110-115 volt motor windings supplied for their SCMS as an example.

Their superior tools, by contrast have come from older Festo & other 3rd-party designs such as Reich, Mafell, Wap, Kraenzle & others.  Once well admired titans of German industry, many now unfortunately gone the way of the Dodo:  subsumed by competitors or folded.  Quality products that have not required the frequent updates, aesthetic and performance "enhancements" & fiddling that have been deemed necessary for their "lesser" tools.  Some have all but remained totally unchanged (except for their corporate livery) for decades.

Where Festo/ol seems to suffer, especially in comparison to its peers is in an apparent lack of R&D investment and in the glacially slow adoption of necessarily more expensive and albeit riskier new technologies.  It could be very well argued that a technology aversion is more a virtue than a vice (look again at some of those lovely old designs), however innovation seems to be a watchword for many of the company's more "professional" competitors, some of whom are achieving inroads into the company's market share.

Lack of investment in research & development in any technologically-based industry however is harder to forgive.  Some of their newer tools have been in my experience rather "compromised" in overall ergonomic, performance and longevity parameters.  To be charitable, many could've (& darn well should've) been better designed.  Whilst it may please the board of investors & the heirs to the families to reduce these pesky, unproductive overheads, excessive cost cutting in the name of profitability may well lead to the company's demise.  I understand that Tooltechnic is no giant the likes of Robert Bosch, Makita, TTI or Hitachi Koki/Metabo, but this surely must necessitate a greater proportion of overall turnover be dedicated to R&D expenditure.  Isn't that, after all, one of the "reasons" for the higher prices?  A better mousetrap?

From a local Australian perspective, their Antipodean marketing efforts of late have been appalling.  Resale price maintenance is in my opinion a cancer eating the heart out of free enterprise.  I personally find it both arrogant & unethical. There's currently almost an adversarial air about the interrelationship between the importer, retail network & customer.  Price rises come regularly & seemingly without regard to exchange rate fluctuations, and the price disparity between national marketplaces is inequitable & unseemly.  Gutting the previous resale and repair networks hasn't helped either, & further served to sour - or even poison - relationships.  Where's the trust gone these days?

I personally need a better "excuse" for paying up to 500%+ extra for my Festo/ol tooling than mere corporate greed!
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline JakobProgsch

  • Posts: 24
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2017, 03:13 AM »
An interesting thing to keep in mind when having these "they don't make them like they used to anymore"-conversations is that our opinion about old tools tends to be warped by survivorship bias. Meaning those decade old tools are still around exactly because they are good, while the not so great tools from that same time period have been discarded and forgotten a long time ago. Judging 40 year old tools by the ones that survived a 40 year selection process is going to inflate the apparent quality of tools made back then.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2522
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2017, 05:43 AM »
Festo/ol still make some outstanding quality tools:  the Deltex DX93E . . .   .


From a local Australian perspective, their Antipodean marketing efforts of late have been appalling.  Resale price maintenance is in my opinion a cancer eating the heart out of free enterprise.  I personally find it both arrogant & unethical. There's currently almost an adversarial air about the interrelationship between the importer, retail network & customer.  Price rises come regularly & seemingly without regard to exchange rate fluctuations, and the price disparity between national marketplaces is inequitable & unseemly.  Gutting the previous resale and repair networks hasn't helped either, & further served to sour - or even poison - relationships.  Where's the trust gone these days?


Yes certainly agree that the DX93 is a little gem as a delta sander.

Re Marketing, in addition to your points @aloysius , twice this year on their Facebook page Festool Aust  have foolishly highlighted unsafe work practices to market their tools. The latest, and only last week, was a video of tradie high jinks with a dust extractor hose being waved close to the eyes of their sleeping colleague. After a comment asking whether Festool DE were powerful enough to damage eyes, to their credit Festool Aust removed the post. The first post too was removed after several comments regarding unsafe sanding practices.

Dammit I just wish their tools were rubbish; life and control of my finances would be so much easier!  [big grin]

Are there any Festools I have regretted purchasing? No. But I will admit to some favourites such as the HK55, but all are used.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 05:46 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 850
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2017, 04:55 PM »
Interesting read @aloysius . Seems like the huge distance from australia to germany gives a kind of perspective we who live in the thick of things miss.

I'm not going to contradict your post but I sense that some of what you write might be somewhat off the mark. But by all means keep writing!
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2522
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2017, 05:39 PM »
Interesting read @aloysius . Seems like the ......

I'm not going to contradict your post but I sense that some of what you write might be somewhat off the mark. But by all means keep writing!
@PreferrablyWood  if you were to read through the Thread - 'One for the Aussies' you would see that a significant number of the Australian FOG members have previously shared in and discussed many of the sentiments presented in this Thread by @aloysius.

Sure,  it could be argued that some of what we suffer is due to the 'Tyrany of Distance' *  from Germany, but others such as our version of 'Service all Inclusive' and retail price maintenace, let alone FB, reflect what Festool Aust think they can get away with when compared to many of their other markets.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Distance
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 05:42 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 850
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2017, 06:04 PM »
Interesting read @aloysius . Seems like the ......

I'm not going to contradict your post but I sense that some of what you write might be somewhat off the mark. But by all means keep writing!
@PreferrablyWood  if you were to read through the Thread - 'One for the Aussies' you would see that a significant number of the Australian FOG members have previously shared in and discussed many of the sentiments presented in this Thread by @aloysius.

Sure,  it could be argued that some of what we suffer is due to the 'Tyrany of Distance' *  from Germany, but others such as our version of 'Service all Inclusive' and retail price maintenace, let alone FB, reflect what Festool Aust think they can get away with when compared to many of their other markets.

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tyranny_of_Distance

Yes I have noticed the tone of dissatisfaction around the service and the way pricing is managed for the australian market, some things in the business model are unfair and that to me does not seem very logical. Satisfied customers = more business after all is said and done.

I've always found many of the threads here and on the photography forums I've frequented to have great contributions from down under that clearly reflect that australians are both talented and bright. Distance gives at new perspective on things and I feel that is an advantage.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 07:39 AM by PreferrablyWood »
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 482
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2017, 03:51 PM »
@JakobProgsch : Interesting take, Jakob. Stands to reason.
Just for today..

Offline ach_78

  • Posts: 41
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2017, 06:03 AM »
Can't comment on the evolution as I have not been equiped with Festool for long enough.

My observation is that Festool is not overbuild. It is not "american" in terms of philosophy of design. It is not overkill, but aim at "right-build" instead of over-build. That is not a bad thing but can lead to some tools being maybe a little underpowered. Many have complained about the Kapex being clearly under-powered. I can also easily bog down my TS55R when ripping thick hard material (that is even using a panther blade). On the other hand, my Rotex 150 is pretty much unstoppable and I feel I could sit on it without significantly slowing it down.

Another area where you can tell it is designed in a "right-build" philosophy is some material choices. Take the Domino. A high-end american tool would have had a fully machined aluminium billet fence. Probably anodized in red or so, such as a woodpecker tool. The Domino has cast-aluminium fence that is machined only where it matters. It's pretty ugly like that. It works like that. It is good enough like that. But nowhere near overkill nor a machining awesomeness splurge.

I do appreciate though that materials are usually okay where it actually matters. Many small bits are stainless steel. Screws are quality ones. There is no runout where there shouldn't be. Bearings and key technical components seem to be properly choosen.

One grip I have though is the thickness of hard plastic parts, that seem to be consistently on the too thin side of the spectrum.
- Take the Syslite DUO. It takes the whole of 2 seconds to realize the plastic area where the tripod is inserted is going to snap first thing when it gets a chance to. Way too thin. Many will end up taped to their tripod.
- Many CT dust extractors have their top plastic systainer support broken in transit or in use.
- Systainers could be (should be, IMO) a tad thicker, at a marginal cost in terms of weight

Last but not least, plastic shells are good looking and nice to the touch, but NOT hard wearing. Your hand drill is not going to look good for long. They take dings and scratches really easily.

Overall, I would say they are quality machines but could be more polished if they wanted to. They are not ultimate tools. They could definetely be better built, better though out, but at what cost ? They are usually good enough for you to not take the step to go and find an alternative elsewhere. The quality tool market is small anyway and I'm not sure the ultimate tool is out there.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1936
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2017, 10:14 AM »
Can't comment on the evolution as I have not been equiped with Festool for long enough.

My observation is that Festool is not overbuild. It is not "american" in terms of philosophy of design. It is not overkill, but aim at "right-build" instead of over-build. That is not a bad thing but can lead to some tools being maybe a little underpowered. Many have complained about the Kapex being clearly under-powered. I can also easily bog down my TS55R when ripping thick hard material (that is even using a panther blade). On the other hand, my Rotex 150 is pretty much unstoppable and I feel I could sit on it without significantly slowing it down.

Another area where you can tell it is designed in a "right-build" philosophy is some material choices. Take the Domino. A high-end american tool would have had a fully machined aluminium billet fence. Probably anodized in red or so, such as a woodpecker tool. The Domino has cast-aluminium fence that is machined only where it matters. It's pretty ugly like that. It works like that. It is good enough like that. But nowhere near overkill nor a machining awesomeness splurge.

I do appreciate though that materials are usually okay where it actually matters. Many small bits are stainless steel. Screws are quality ones. There is no runout where there shouldn't be. Bearings and key technical components seem to be properly choosen.

One grip I have though is the thickness of hard plastic parts, that seem to be consistently on the too thin side of the spectrum.
- Take the Syslite DUO. It takes the whole of 2 seconds to realize the plastic area where the tripod is inserted is going to snap first thing when it gets a chance to. Way too thin. Many will end up taped to their tripod.-     True, noticed that with my new Duo once I popped it on the tripod. Holding up so far though...


Last but not least, plastic shells are good looking and nice to the touch, but NOT hard wearing. Your hand drill is not going to look good for long. They take dings and scratches really easily.     
  With regards to the outer shells on the drills, I much prefer them to the wild graphics of other tool manufs.  Those ribbons of rubber on Makita, etc, get gummy or fall off over time from my experience.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline marky harvey

  • Posts: 15
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2017, 02:40 AM »
I recently bought a Festool cordless drill. I feel that the physical build quality isn't that great. When the battery is installed it can rock from side to side and the gap between the drill body and the battery isn't very even.  My dewalt tools have a much better battery fit.
RO 150, Kapex KS 120, BS85, T18, MFT, TS55R

Offline skids

  • Posts: 931
Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2017, 09:58 PM »
I recently bought a Festool cordless drill. I feel that the physical build quality isn't that great. When the battery is installed it can rock from side to side and the gap between the drill body and the battery isn't very even.  My dewalt tools have a much better battery fit.


Which model drill did you recently have? Honestly comparing any Dewalt to Festool drills is laughable I had a Dewalt in my hand the other day and all I kept thinking it how cheap and crappy it felt in my hand.

I get it the Festool drills aren't cheap...But I have a CXS for years now (gateway Drill) and have NOT treated it lightly. I know if I did what I've done to this CXS to a Dewalt it would be all rattles and the battery probably wouldn't fit right or work as well- I know this because I had mass drill prior to Festool. I now have a T 18 to compliment it and I can honestly say the T18 is a force to be reckoned with, what a potent combo. There are zero mass market drills that even come close to the quality of that drill. One serious piece of equipment, which is worth every penny.

You either make the commitment to Centrotec and Festool or you don't. Once you do, you won't look back on that Dewalt fondly.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 10:01 PM by skids »
The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realise it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2017, 11:53 PM »
This is a "slap the arse and watch the ripples" thread with polarised positions, plenty of opinion and a dash of fact.

One thing a lot of people in Europe are concerned about with Festool kit is its ability to withstand ingestion by large predators. I have heard that a Domino was swallowed by a crocodile in Australia and did not work afterwards. A Great White was found beached in Central America with an 18V Carvex in its gut. That did still work but there was no charger with it so after an hour it was useless.

darn, I am 5 days late with this !

Peter

Offline charley1968

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Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2017, 03:42 PM »
Peter,  you have me in stitches.. 🤣
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 03:46 PM by charley1968 »
Just for today..

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Festool quality?
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2017, 09:38 PM »
I notice people always bring up the systainers being "too thin", in their opinion.
I won't agree nor disagree with that opinion.   I am wondering, though, if they
would be less resilient to damage if they were thicker?

My cantliver toolbox has been stepped on (landed on from jumps, too) a half dozen times since I got it (whenever it came out).  The indivdual components blast off and simply snap back together.  A traditional sheet metal variant would have been bent out of commission.

I've got one broken systainer.  A forklift hit a stack of them while in a shipping box.
One happened to have the three leaf tool insert, and happened to be forced shut with a bit of the leaf jammed inbetween the top and bottom. In that state, the fork cracked a small piece off the back.   Fast forward two months, I was goofing around and opened said damaged sytainer while four loaded systainers were attached to the top.  I lost my grip and the top sheared off at the hinge.

^ All that to kill a systainer. 

Alas, it's not really dead.  I replaced the top.   [big grin]

I have to admit, I've used systainers as step ladders, and they did seem like they were about to break.   I kind of had the Sortimo and Tanos advertising mixed up in my head at the time.

As for the tools.  They keep getting lighter.  The luddites automatically perceive that as bad.  However, power tools, aren't handplanes. 

I do recall either an Amazon review or blog comment complaining about Festool
power tools becoming "more plastic" and specifically addressing the current RO 150.
I didn't have the energy point out that you can clearly see the metal gear housing underneath the plastic overcasing that protects your hand from searing to a nice medium rare cannibal meal. 


 
« Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 09:45 PM by yetihunter »