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ericbuggeln
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« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2012, 10:54 PM » |
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2012, 11:30 PM » |
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There are so many ways to analyze the utility of this light source other than pure light output.
I have been given specialty lights that are very cool for certain things. They are cute and work for some tasks, like looking in ears.
I don't think that's the point here. If you grill at night or work in dark(ish) spaces, it's the ultimate I've seen. If you have a Festool drill or a collection, it's even more valuable.
Incidentally, I sell both Mag and Streamlight. The prices are comparable and the utility of them isn't the same as the intended purpose of this light - at least of what I know in their roster.
Tom
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« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 11:32 PM by Tom Bellemare »
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2012, 11:57 PM » |
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I compared the SysLite to a Bud Light and the SysLite blew it away for brightness and refreshing taste somehow. So, your choice. Fewer calories or greater lumens. This test was conducted in a lab, but I don't remember which one.
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Jerome
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« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2012, 12:07 AM » |
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The price reflects the kind of LED used. I would not be amazed to find the light output is much less than the syslight. |
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Jerome TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone. Wish list WoodRat, Workshop supplies drum sander http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/ |
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Jerome
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« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2012, 12:19 AM » |
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Although percentages vary, it is not uncommon to see efficacy losses of up to 40%
so that gives a real world 150 lumen/watt rating. Given your calculations it puts the Syslight north of 2000 lumens and in the region of 3000+ |
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Jerome TS55, OF1400, Elu MOF96, Rotex150, DTS400, ETS150/3 Domino, MFK700, Trend T11, Makita LS1212, Original Mini CV06 Cyclone. Wish list WoodRat, Workshop supplies drum sander http://www.flickr.com/photos/nui-jerome/ |
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ericbuggeln
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« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2012, 08:06 AM » |
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I just find it funny that a year ago none of you guys even needed a light, but Festool makes one at an insulting price point and now you cant stop talking about it. Not one person at JLC is talking about it except Kreg. Everyone there is insulted by the price and more turned off by Festool then ever. The only people buying Syslites are extreme Festool fanatics who would buy my dogs turd if it came in a systainer. Regular carpenters and specifically electricians, plumbers, and HVAC guys, who could actually use the thing laugh at that price point. Im the biggest Festool fan out there, see "Festool Nerd Alert" thread, but this product is a disaster and its funny to see you guys swoon over it. Whats next "Wallpaper Perforator" thread. That will be the day I take my Festool T shirt off for good. And for all of you guys that use high end stuff, I use the best light in the galaxy, blows the Syslite away, thanks Eric https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJRYsMklnigoUhFkXNXd2WKLiIjK7s0VXV9ev2E9sBTA2ne1uL |
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Kev
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« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2012, 08:25 AM » |
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I just find it funny that a year ago none of you guys even needed a light, but Festool makes one at an insulting price point and now you cant stop talking about it. Not one person at JLC is talking about it except Kreg. Everyone there is insulted by the price and more turned off by Festool then ever. The only people buying Syslites are extreme Festool fanatics who would buy my dogs turd if it came in a systainer. Regular carpenters and specifically electricians, plumbers, and HVAC guys, who could actually use the thing laugh at that price point. Im the biggest Festool fan out there, see "Festool Nerd Alert" thread, but this product is a disaster and its funny to see you guys swoon over it. Whats next "Wallpaper Perforator" thread. That will be the day I take my Festool T shirt off for good. And for all of you guys that use high end stuff, I use the best light in the galaxy, blows the Syslite away, thanks Eric https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJRYsMklnigoUhFkXNXd2WKLiIjK7s0VXV9ev2E9sBTA2ne1uLWOW - Issues! Just because you and a bunch of other's you hang with feel "insulted", there's no need to run down the people that really like it. Very poor form. You've said a lot of negative stuff about the syslite. Don't buy it. The comment about your dog's offerings wasn't funny - it was just offensive IMO. I usually enjoy the passionate positive and negative opinions but I feel you are overstepping the mark here. Kev. |
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builderbob
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« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2012, 08:30 AM » |
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Just for the sake of conversation, the light in this link is rated at 350 lumens. The only syslite lumen rating has been through guessing, so I have no basis of comparison. And there's no extended warranty or cordless form of running that light. B |
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Kapex, TS55, Domino, MFK 700, OF 1400, OF 1010, RAS 115, RTS 400, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), C 12 (2), T-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!
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Kev
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« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2012, 08:43 AM » |
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Just for the sake of conversation, the light in this link is rated at 350 lumens. The only syslite lumen rating has been through guessing, so I have no basis of comparison. And there's no extended warranty or cordless form of running that light. B If you want to compare some interesting portable lighting units - have a look at the Wolf ATEX Worklites. http://www.wolf-safety.co.uk/worklights/atex_worklite/Can't imagine you'll see their 6x3W LED version landed in the US for much less the $2000 !! |
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ericbuggeln
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« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2012, 09:02 AM » |
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Sorry Kev, I just remember a time when this forum was about woodworking tools not lighting, plus there were no topics not involving the Syslite to post on. Ive made my point and Syslite mania will die down soon, Eric
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Shane Holland
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« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2012, 09:12 AM » |
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Guys, everyone is welcome to express their opinions, pro or con. But, let's not make it personal.
Each person needs to decide what product best suits their needs. The SysLite is not the right light for everyone and that's fine. It's another example of Festool's commitment to offer a well designed solution. It's a shame someone would get offended by the price. The price reflects the quality of the components, the superior engineering and design, and that it's not made in China.
Let's calm down just a little bit with this discussion.
Thanks.
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Kev
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« Reply #71 on: June 07, 2012, 09:44 AM » |
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On Shane's point on components - there is a big variety of LED types and just one aspect - the "colour temp" of the LED has a significant bearing on the price. When I first read about the Syslite I thought it was massively expensive ... thinking that the LED's would be the "common" variety (you can get a 6x3W work light for$25~35 in a enclosed unit running 12/24V).
I'm not certain of the colour temp of the LED's in the Festool, but I would assume they're not the cheapest ones available.
I'm not up to speed on the detailed science, but one thing I'm aware of is certain colour temps (the ones with a bias away from "natural lighting") can make is hard to distinguish colour variations, meaning you could have a massively bright light, but still struggle to see a pencil line on a piece of timber ...
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PeterK
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« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2012, 09:46 AM » |
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Got mine yesterday. Not sure how much shop use it will get but will see lots of usage for working on my vehicles and as a travel light. Will be useful during hurricane season, working in attic, outdoor work after dark, camping trips. Love the wide area lighting. While not cheap, it is lower cost than a couple of my LED flashlights and far more useful. Oh and it came in such a nice "man purse"!!!!  |
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Peter James
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« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2012, 10:04 AM » |
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Man Purse? Oh, you mean a Murse  |
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builderbob
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Location: Connecticut Member Since: Feb 2007
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« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2012, 10:09 AM » |
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Man Purse? Oh, you mean a Murse I'm wearing mine like a fanny pack! Hahaha. Just kidding! B |
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Kapex, TS55, Domino, MFK 700, OF 1400, OF 1010, RAS 115, RTS 400, ETS 150/3, ETS 125, CT 22 (2), C 12 (2), T-15+3, T-12+3, PSB 300 & more MFT's than i can count!
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Peter James
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« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2012, 10:11 AM » |
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I carry a "European Shoulder Bag" myself - don't knock it til you've tried it!
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andvari
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« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2012, 10:27 AM » |
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There are so many ways to analyze the utility of this light source other than pure light output.
I have been given specialty lights that are very cool for certain things. They are cute and work for some tasks, like looking in ears.
I don't think that's the point here. If you grill at night or work in dark(ish) spaces, it's the ultimate I've seen. If you have a Festool drill or a collection, it's even more valuable.
Incidentally, I sell both Mag and Streamlight. The prices are comparable and the utility of them isn't the same as the intended purpose of this light - at least of what I know in their roster.
Tom
That's absolutely right Tom, and I think I said the same thing in a different way in my original analysis. I think the Syslight is great if you are crawling around in attics but probably not what I need for my shop lighting issues. |
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TS55, Domino 500, Domino Assortment, OF1400, CT36+Boom Arm, T12+3, FS3000, Parallel Guides, RO 90, ETS 150/3, Domino XL, Domiplate, LS130, RTS Guide Stop, CMS-GE
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andvari
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« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2012, 10:37 AM » |
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Although percentages vary, it is not uncommon to see efficacy losses of up to 40%
so that gives a real world 150 lumen/watt rating. Given your calculations it puts the Syslight north of 2000 lumens and in the region of 3000+ Philips won the $10,000,000 L-prize with an LED bulb that was measured at 93 lumens per watt. I really doubt that all of a sudden there are commercial devices out there with 60% more real-world efficacy. |
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TS55, Domino 500, Domino Assortment, OF1400, CT36+Boom Arm, T12+3, FS3000, Parallel Guides, RO 90, ETS 150/3, Domino XL, Domiplate, LS130, RTS Guide Stop, CMS-GE
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Kev
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« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2012, 10:43 AM » |
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Although percentages vary, it is not uncommon to see efficacy losses of up to 40%
so that gives a real world 150 lumen/watt rating. Given your calculations it puts the Syslight north of 2000 lumens and in the region of 3000+ Philips won the $10,000,000 L-prize with an LED bulb that was measured at 93 lumens per watt. I really doubt that all of a sudden there are commercial devices out there with 60% more real-world efficacy. I'd be guesstimating something in the 1,200 to 1,500 lumen bracket. I recall reading something along the lines that although they (the entire electronics industry) commercially refer to these things as 3W LED's ... the way they're driven results in them being a little more that two 1W LED's in consumption and output. |
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ericbuggeln
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« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2012, 11:19 AM » |
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If what I said offended anyone I apologize. It was not meant to do so. I was merely stating my personal opinion on the tool. This is a tool forum where people express their personal opinions on a daily basis and it is America. Sorry if you dont agree with me. If youre having a great time with your Syslite I can dig that, just not for me, Eric
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Kev
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Location: Australia Member Since: Nov 2011
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« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2012, 11:27 AM » |
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If what I said offended anyone I apologize. It was not meant to do so. I was merely stating my personal opinion on the tool. This is a tool forum where people express their personal opinions on a daily basis and it is America. Sorry if you dont agree with me. If youre having a great time with your Syslite I can dig that, just not for me, Eric
This is the Internet ... not America, it's "the world"  (and probably a good bandwidth connection into the international space station too) |
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Eco-Options
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« Reply #82 on: June 07, 2012, 11:54 AM » |
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If what I said offended anyone I apologize. It was not meant to do so. I was merely stating my personal opinion on the tool. This is a tool forum where people express their personal opinions on a daily basis and it is America. Sorry if you dont agree with me. If youre having a great time with your Syslite I can dig that, just not for me, Eric
In trying to point out everyone's lack of sanity, you make yourself sound like a man who is easily swayed by what others think. Why else come on this thread and repeatedly state the same thing twice? I bought the light for myself, end of story. |
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Www.ecooptionshardwood.com
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #83 on: June 07, 2012, 11:57 AM » |
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Just for curiosity's sake, I did some digging and Cree sells LEDs commercially that exceed 100 lumens per watt (~130).
From what I can tell, LEDs used in "bulbs" lose efficacy. The array in the SysLite appears to be on a PC board. I don't know for certain that it would be more efficient to use them that way but my gut says it would be significantly more efficient.
Tom
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #84 on: June 07, 2012, 12:07 PM » |
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I tried earlier to joke about the craziness in this thread, but as a member of JLC, I thought I should bring this to light. What's that saying about not throwing stones at glass houses? Quote from the JLC forum post #13 in his router table thread: Hoover, give the FOG another chance if you havent been there since Festool took it over. It has gotten a lot better then it was before. Obviously you would rather have the site not run by the people who make the tools, but for example they just posted video on how to tension the Trion jigsaw. I had never seen or heard of that method in any demo day, training class, or Festool event, but it has really helped jigsawing ability to have the tool properly tensioned. Plus they dont allow personal attacks from one member to another anymore, thanks Eric EDIT: Guess my dry humor about distorted sayings was overshadowed by my seriousness or have you guys figured me out by now.  And for those who don't remember from my first FOG post, I popped in very occasionally since 2007 before signing up and I've been told stuff about the past. I'm well aware. |
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 01:23 PM by Ken Nagrod »
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David Tool Nut
Festool Dealer
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« Reply #85 on: June 07, 2012, 12:13 PM » |
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Wow...so much to cover..and so many landmines to step on.
I don't feel like loosing a leg today, so I'll add this:
In short, circuitry increases efficiency of an LED for a couple of basic reasons (not exhaustive here guys-no grenades please)-
1. circuitry allows the output of the LED to be regulated which not only determines run-time but also an ancillary causal bi-product- HEAT
The more that heat can be regulated (through, heat sinks, or whatever) the more efficient the LED can draw upon its source more efficiently to supply the demanded "load".
This believe it or not, is one of the reasons that flashlights have a certain amount of lumens. Many times the desired lumens output is determined by how much heat the unit wants to be limited to. This is because heat kills battery life.
To come round the mine field full circle now, circuitry is but one way( and not a bad way mind you) of how to help in this arena.
Cree LED are a quality diode in that they work well with circuitry, respond well to current draw (some diodes don't like current-what does "don't like" mean? it could mean it blows up, burns up, kills the battery, short circuits the system and a few other things).
I digressed here a bit, in the musings of my geek head, so sorry.
David
p.s. Hmmm I still have my legs for the moment
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 12:26 PM by David Tool Nut »
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www.festoolproducts.comwww.toolnut.com 10,000 sq ft of Festool, Fein, Metabo, PLS, CMT, Amana and much more! Factory trained salesmen, open 7 days and only 30 minutes from NYC. " The floggings will continue until morale improves."
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hockey_magnet
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Posts: 305
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« Reply #86 on: June 07, 2012, 12:15 PM » |
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I just find it funny that a year ago none of you guys even needed a light, but Festool makes one at an insulting price point and now you cant stop talking about it. Not one person at JLC is talking about it except Kreg. Everyone there is insulted by the price and more turned off by Festool then ever. The only people buying Syslites are extreme Festool fanatics who would buy my dogs turd if it came in a systainer. Regular carpenters and specifically electricians, plumbers, and HVAC guys, who could actually use the thing laugh at that price point. Im the biggest Festool fan out there, see "Festool Nerd Alert" thread, but this product is a disaster and its funny to see you guys swoon over it. Whats next "Wallpaper Perforator" thread. That will be the day I take my Festool T shirt off for good. And for all of you guys that use high end stuff, I use the best light in the galaxy, blows the Syslite away, thanks Eric https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJRYsMklnigoUhFkXNXd2WKLiIjK7s0VXV9ev2E9sBTA2ne1uLSorry, but how do you know we didn't need a light? Most of us I think use a work light at times and so we probably all need one. Your lighting solution isn't always available, is it?  I also don't think you have a good understanding of the research, development and manufacturing costs of what to you may seem like a simple item. You don't seem to mind paying a premium for Festools when it's something you want or need. No diiference IMHO comparing a $200 syslite to a $40 or $60 work light and a $1500 Kapex or $700 TS to a $149 Ryobi saw. You are entitled to your opinion of the Syslite but should not denigrate others for buying it. You should have more respect for others on this forum. Just state your opinion without the embellishments and be done with it. BTW, I certainly thought twice before buying the Syslite. What closed the deal for me aside from the quality of the product was the fact that I already have Festool batteries for it. |
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Peter James
Festool Dealer
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Festool Dealer Right Outside NYC - 10,000 Sq Feet
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« Reply #87 on: June 07, 2012, 12:18 PM » |
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Wow...so much to cover..and so many landmines to step on.
I don;t feel like loosing a leg today, so I'll add this:
In short, circuitry increases efficiency of an LED for a couple of basic reasons (not exhaustive here guys-no grenades please)-
1. circuitry allows the output of the LED to be regulated which not only determines run-time but also an ancillary causal bi-product- HEAT
The more that heat can be regulated (through, heat sinks, or whatever) the more efficient the LED can draw upon its source to output more efficiently form the demanded "load".
This believe it or not, is one of the reasons that flashlights have a certain amount of lumens. Many times the desired lumens output is determined by how much heat the unit wants to be limited to. This is because heat kills battery life.
To come round the mine field full circle now, circuitry is but one way( and not a bad way mind you) of how to help in this arena.
Cree LED are a quality diode in that they work well with circuitry, respond well to current draw (some diodes don't like current-what does "don't like" mean? it could mean it blows up, burns up, kills the battery, short circuits the system and a few other things).
I digressed here a bit, in the musings of my geek head, so sorry.
David
p.s. Hmmm I still have my legs for the moment
 What he said.... |
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David Tool Nut
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« Reply #88 on: June 07, 2012, 12:24 PM » |
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I've seen multiple places that cool white LEDs can easily exceed 100 lumens/watt.
Tom
Am I missing something here?! LEDs's can easily throw out well of 100 lumens. ONE LED can throw out 2800 lumens easily so festool Syslite IF festool wanted they could stick 6 of them 2800 lumens it would light up a large garden EASILY! not saying the battery would last very long! But I have a torch which only has ONE led and throws out 1800 lumens and lasts 3 hours on rechargeable batteries on full beam lights up the garden! The torch did cost 3 times the price of the festool Syslite! So cant imagine if festool put some of them super LED's in their Syslite how much it would cost JMB Also guys (back on the field again) do realize that lumens is (I am NOT quoting Webster here) a measurement of output of light. it is NOT focus-able. Reflectors are a major component of a quality flashlight and a significant contributing factor to the overall production cost of the device "throwing" lumens down range. Take a Cree Led, or any other quality diode, and swap out the reflector with another type that came from a lesser quality light and test it. Now take a very fine quality, Italian crystal made reflector and change the angle of that housing so that the degrees in which the lumens strike that surface...now for a goof, modify angle of the the reflector so that it is not consistent across the surface in degrees, so that the reflector is 20 degrees coming out from the LED and widens to 28 degrees where it meets the bezel..all these things will determine how "bright" a lighting device "appears" even if the measured lumens output are ANSI rated and accurately recorded as being identical. And this is also a component of production costs. ...but hey, if someone wants a hook on it instead so it does not fall off a rafter while working at precipitously dangerous angles from a short A-Frame ladder..well by all means, re-allocate the funds to accommodate the man!!!  David |
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« Last Edit: June 07, 2012, 12:37 PM by David Tool Nut »
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www.festoolproducts.comwww.toolnut.com 10,000 sq ft of Festool, Fein, Metabo, PLS, CMT, Amana and much more! Factory trained salesmen, open 7 days and only 30 minutes from NYC. " The floggings will continue until morale improves."
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ericbuggeln
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« Reply #89 on: June 07, 2012, 12:25 PM » |
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Ken, I made a blanket statement about Festool purchasing, not an attack on a single member, but thanks for pointing it out. You werent a member of this forum when those "attacks" were taking place, but I will tell you all about it next time i see you, Eric
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