Author Topic: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts  (Read 13761 times)

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Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2017, 02:01 PM »
I never ever trust any of the "Paid for" Festool reviews .Far too many seem to be the type that would use festool toilet paper if they got paid . No Matter how good they are .I expect to see a real Pro pick tools that do the best job rather than  a "one brand work shop" .
Its obvious what are the top festool items are .And I agree with a few and own them.  . But the rest .....!

the name dave stanton comes to mind. I feel his videos do more harm than good, theu give potential customers unreasonable expectations of the tools resulting in them bieng dissapointed and the. returning the tools

That is quite a strong opinion.  I am not aware of any "Paid For" individuals here.  Does Festool sometimes send out tools to individuals to test?  Yes.  But usually they have to return the tools afterward.  If a poster does a review and the tool or other consideration is granted to them for that review we do try to ensure that that disclosure is made in the posts or in the video.

Peter
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2017, 07:40 PM »
To be fair he said, "I feel", so it is his perception... Rather than a statement of fact.

I cannot fault him for having his feelings or sharing them.
It is entirely possible that the feedback could also be taken in a constructive manner, so it does not seem like it is overly negative.

Offline slimm

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2017, 08:19 PM »
im not hating on the guy he seems  quite a personable chap and i enjoy his videos. Its just tedious when  paid festool reviewers give a biased review only listing positive points and no negeatave ones.  im all about honesty and saying it how it is.

Offline #Tee

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2017, 08:31 PM »
just take the vids for what it is, just dont believe any of it and go buy the tool yourself and try for 30 days.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2017, 01:42 AM »
just take the vids for what it is, just dont believe any of it and go buy the tool yourself and try for 30 days.

"Don't believe any of it" can apply equally to the positive and negative.
I like AVE's videos in general, and he is not paid to do tear downs. If he us showing a plain bearing it is likely that is factual.

Offline slimm

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2017, 04:15 AM »
your missing my point entirely. My issue is that festool are clearly sorting out certain imdividuals to make marketing videos which I dont feel are entyrly honest, as a result I feel tjat they are then giving potential buyers of said tools unrealistinc expectations of the said tools.  I think that these videos can do more harm than good.


Online grobkuschelig

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2017, 05:13 AM »
...My issue is that festool are clearly sorting out certain imdividuals to make marketing videos which I dont feel are entyrly honest...

What about Marketing in our world is "entirely honest"?
I don't mean to tease you, but I think today, we all have to be aware of the way that things are marketed to us. And I don't expect festool to act any different than the other companies, since they too have to make a living and need to sell.
If they would tell you, "we use cheap parts here and there to help our margins and there are also good tools from these other vendors out there..." they would be failing their job. [dead horse]

In my opinion it all comes down to the customer, as it always has. If we as customers are not well informed, we can be blinded by any feature or tagline.
To me, every tool is a compromise. I know there are lots of other vendors out there making good tools. I'm choosing festool as my option quite often, since I am "locked in" to their system. But this system is also one of the biggest points, why I went for them in the first place.
*rant off* ;)

If you just need a track saw, there are plenty of options to choose from for less or more money.
If you want something that works with the superb festool tracks, the MFT and all the nice accessories, then you might find value in the TS series...  [2cents]

Offline #Tee

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2017, 06:15 AM »
like i said, if you feel youre on the defense about their marketing then just stop watching festool review vids.  protect yourself and assume ALL vids online are fake and go buy one and experience yourself. its a win win for you.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2017, 06:50 AM »
your missing my point entirely...

I got it.

Offline kcufstoidi

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2017, 07:17 AM »
The video in question was done by Ave the entertainer and is quite funny, anyone watching them and think they have any valid points about tool construction needs to take another big drink or long huff and take them for what they are, entertainment. The quality of any given tool is not determined by a meathead evaluation but in the long term use by the people in the industry. You don't read about many TS saw failure complaints especially any relating to bushing failures or plastic melting due to improper design. The biggest joke in the video is his inability to understand the situations where a bushing is used vs a bearing, let alone the quality of modern day bushings. If the gentleman in question wants to move up the from entertainer to someone with actual credibility lets see the teardown/test evaluations on the other tracksaws from Dewalt, Makita, Bosch, Fox, Grizzly and oh yes Mafell. If you pick any tool based solely on entertainment videos you have to give your head a serious shake.

John

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2017, 07:34 AM »
The video in question was done by xxxx the entertainer and is quite funny, anyone watching them and think they have any valid points about xxxxxxx needs to take another big drink or long huff and take them for what they are, entertainment. ...
...
... If you pick any tool based solely on entertainment videos you have to give your head a serious shake.

John

^this edited version^ could somewhat be applied to promotional videos.  [wink]

seeing a specific tool in action does indeed show what it can do, but it does not show whether it is the only tool that can do it.

And it also does not guarantee whether Joe Bloggs is able to do the same.

Offline SS Teach

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2017, 09:53 PM »
Welcome to FOG. Let me get this straight you resent Festool's price structure  but are willing to spend 500 more for a Mafell with no warranty. You don't like their Apple style pricing. The IPhone 7 didn't explode the competition's 7 did. I never thought I would use this term in a FOG post but here it is cognitive dissonance is the feeling I'm getting. If you don't think Festool is worth it, get something else. Several companies sell track saws. I've have and use the TS, OF, and DF. Simply put they're fantastic. The best part is they hook up to my CT and I'm not working in a dust storm.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set.

Offline slimm

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2017, 04:51 PM »
In regards to what i said notice how stanton is ignooring the critisism of the ks60 from what ive summed up that other uses have mentioned. These so called youtube mugs mislead and cause more harm than good to the brand. Ditch them festool and stick to prper marketing not 'back door marketing'

Online Peter Halle

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2017, 06:14 PM »
Let's cut out the accusations.

Peter
« Last Edit: June 28, 2017, 06:22 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2017, 06:33 PM »
Hi
 Some strong opinions given about reviewers in this thread and to add some balance to the comments.
From the UK - we do not pay reviewers to write reviews - there are guidelines to which we have to adhere to and in this there is no leeway (special circumstances can be catered for but it is very complex)

Any product that is sent to a reviewer has to be returned - they do not keep the product (in the UK I send the kit out for review and it is returned) Recently we had one reviewer who asked for payment and this was refused.

What a reviewer feeds back to their audience is down to their editorial control we do not set the script up

The reviews are done so an end user can make an informed decision - there are many platforms that exist now to get immediate information that form an over view of a products performance.
rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline dibnah

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 07:38 PM »
I don't post much, but did have a conversation with Dave Stanton around transparancy and creative marketing:
Cheers Dibnah

Quote from: Davesbuildtips on September 07, 2015, 08:52 AM
Quote from: dibnah on September 07, 2015, 08:24 AM
Hi Dave,

Interesting reading the first two replies in this thread you have started. But as  I'm in the market for a new saw I thought I would ask..and I hope this does not come across as rude.
Your video demonstration is very well put together and I'm sure you must have a sales background. But I am particularly interested in your affiliation with Festool as its help me make more of an informed choice before I spend my money.
While I find video reviews of this nature very helpful I can't help but feel that there need to be more transparency on the part of the presenter. Don't get me wrong I am not trying to say that you are pulling the wool over my eyes I just want to be made aware of the reasons that have motivated you in to making the broadcast.(sales pitch)
This could well be the subject matter of a new thread  as I think the FOG in general is rather lacking in this. But in the interests of being open and honest I feel that all member of a public forum that is operated under a corporate banner should openly disclose that they have been rewarded or remunerated by the corporation before they contribute to the discussion.

Cheers Dibnah
Dibnah.
I am a retired builder and now work part time in the industry but am not paid by anyone to make my videos. I make the videos in my shed at home on my own, no cameramen, no sound technician, no video editor, no script writer... Just Dave enjoying himself rather than sitting in front of a TV or video game. I dabbled in youtube for a while and one of my videos went viral and now it is an addiction. I make videos about my dog, Festool, my workshop, all of my other tools, my trailer... the list goes on. I love doing it. I have to ask you a question, In my video, is there any deception about the machine or what it is capable of? Is the video informative? Does the video offer more information about the tool (good or bad) than most other videos due to perceived knowledge? Surely these are the questions to focus on. I have always hated being ignorant about things. Once I nut something out I share the knowledge in the best way I know how.
I hope you picked up some useful information freely from my efforts.

Hi Dave Thank you for your reply.
Thanks also for reinforcing my initial perception that you are just a genuine guy sharing his love of the tools in an enthusiastic way. I also take my hat of to you, your presentation was very informative and I have very much enjoyed your channel. Sorry if my post came across to the contrary, I was not trying to portray any deception on your part.
Moreover I find it particularly interesting how a manufacture of power tools motivates their consumers to freely promote their products.
When you think about it, its an incredibly powerful influence to get a person to do something for effectively nothing in return; in your case I admire your charitable spirit.

However I do feel that there are some "man in his shed' type broadcasters out there that do cross the line and go from open and honest review to motivated referral. "Word of mouth" referrals from the friendly "man in his shed" is such a strong positive sales notion, creative marketers are using it to target specific user groups and to the uninitiated potential tool purchaser what might come across as one thing can build false confidence. I also like you dislike being ignorant, and it can be a little demeaning having to question someone like your good self's motivation for doing something. I just feel that there is a responsibility of a broadcaster and manufacture alike to fully disclose when broadcast is and advertisement or not.

Anyhow thanks for listening Dave I hope I haven't lost you but futhermore I am also intrigued, and would value your opinion, on the perception that a relatively high end manufacture of seemingly superior quality tools manages to pull off such a poor effort in an attempt at an end user manual. This effectively forces their consumers to independently source further information hence my introduction to the FOG; which for my part has been very rewarding. However you have got to remember not every user of a tools is happy to whittle away hours of their time on a fan based website in order to obtain information that would make obvious sense to provide at the point of sale. Such is the extent of Festool fan based endorsement that its makes commercial sense to leave users wanting as they will unintentionally have to sift through a barrage of advertisement/ review type information to source better reference material.

Again I am really pleased to hear that your updates are not weighted in any way as I really do  enjoy and appreciate the entertainment that your are freely providing me. Keep up the great work and I apologies in advance if this has in anyway challenged your sincere nature.

I hope this encourages some positive debate

Cheers   Dibnah

Offline Woodwork Wizard

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2017, 12:08 AM »
AvE is entertaining and amusing and he's certainly very knowledgeable, but I've never had a problem with either of my TS-55R saws in almost 4 years of very frequent use, so whatever shortcomings he pointed out I don't really see as a bad thing with the TS. I love this saw and what it does - though I do wish Festool would make a hose connection on the saw that would not point down towards the guide rail as this really bothers me far more than how hot the soldering iron needs to be to melt the plastic the saw is made from...

No single tool company makes the best everything, but at least the Mafell P1cc is in a Systainer if you're 'locked in to the system'.
I don't like joining (Festool) guide rails either. I don't trust it so I'm forever checking them. I'd buy the Mafell/Bosch rails but I'm 'locked in to the system' as well...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 12:27 AM by Woodwork Wizard »

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2017, 12:41 AM »
I feel that @David Stanton has received some unfair criticism from some here. Sure he might be at times a little too enthusiastic  [smile] but generally he provides excellent information. As to being paid by Festool?  Well  no! But he does work for a Festool Dealer and this is openly shown under his Avitar as - Festool Dealer Affiliate. It not as if this has been hidden from FOG members.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 01:25 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline slimm

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2017, 04:35 PM »
Let's cut out the accusations.

Peter

where are the "accusations"?  Stop trying to silence users opinionsm

Offline estley

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 05:45 PM »
I too enjoy AvE, and funny you should mention, in a recent review of that juicing machine, he made an interesting comment about over building vs properly engineering (or something to that effect). To paraphrase the point he was making, sometimes you over build something when you're not "sure" it'll hold/work, the flip side of that coin is when you do proper engineering calculations and build accordingly. I think a lot of the "problems" he found with the ts55 were cases of something that looked "underbuilt", but the lack of actual user complaints about all of those so called issues lead me to believe that it's not that it's underbuilt, it's simply properly engineered...




AvE is entertaining and amusing and he's certainly very knowledgeable, but I've never had a problem with either of my TS-55R saws in almost 4 years of very frequent use, so whatever shortcomings he pointed out I don't really see as a bad thing with the TS. I love this saw and what it does - though I do wish Festool would make a hose connection on the saw that would not point down towards the guide rail as this really bothers me far more than how hot the soldering iron needs to be to melt the plastic the saw is made from...

No single tool company makes the best everything, but at least the Mafell P1cc is in a Systainer if you're 'locked in to the system'.
I don't like joining (Festool) guide rails either. I don't trust it so I'm forever checking them. I'd buy the Mafell/Bosch rails but I'm 'locked in to the system' as well...



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2017, 06:28 PM »
Let's cut out the accusations.

Peter

where are the "accusations"?  Stop trying to silence users opinionsm


   No one is trying to silence opinions. But in several posts in this thread and in others you have accused and or eluded to an unnamed group of video producers, Dave Stanton, and Festool of making misleading  videos about products and trying to cover up a bias in some fashion.  While Dave's affiliation and others is made quite clear  both on FOG and or in the videos.

   So what's the problem? If you feel that these videos are biased then so be it. But stop trying to make it look like Festool or  someone is compensating or otherwise perking these people AND trying to hide the fact. As Untidy Shop pointed out, the fact that Dave works for a Festool dealer is rather blatantly noted in every post he makes on FOG.

Seth
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 09:21 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline TylerC

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2017, 09:59 PM »
This topic seems to come up every so often. Festool does not pay for reviews. Dave is transparent about his affiliation with a dealer. I'm not sure what else can be asked of him. If people choose not to believe him because he's associated with a dealer, that's their prerogative, but I don't think that he (or Festool) can be accused of anything duplicitous.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2017, 01:15 AM »
Dave Stanton is enthusiastic, but my impression is that he likes the tools and enjoys making the videos.
I also like AVe's videos, and the fellow on here from France with the veneer covered top.

Here are some videos for comparison:

Female version of Dave (enthusiastic):


Female version of Ave (double entrendre humor):



Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 01:48 AM »
Re second video, @Holmz  's post below. If that is the sort of enthusiasm you think @David Stanton emulates/could emulate, I cannot wait to see him wearing the same sort of safety boots she wears.  [big grin]
_____________
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 03:33 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Holmz

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2017, 04:07 AM »
watch out fellow festoolians if you dare disagree or voice an opinion that doesnt fall in line with the 'moderators' they will ban you quicker than you can say jack flash! 

Darn Dictators!

I am surprised I have not been banned, but I do not believe that it is helpful to make character judgements on people... Which I usually try to avoid.

Peter was polite is warning you, and maybe a PM would have been a better venue... But there is enough trouble around without Kim or Donald references.

In the ANZAC vernacular they say, "Pull yur head in mate"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pull_one%27s_head_in

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2017, 01:30 PM »
For the record, slimm and then slimmm, was not banned for expressing his opinion or negative opinion about Festool or product reviews. If that was the case probably at least 25% of the posts (guesstimate) of this forum would simply be deleted. This fact is easy to verify by reading the forum.

He was banned for leveling unfounded accusations and disparaging comments at other members of the FOG. And dropping comments (trolling) in posts eluding to some sort of unseemly tool review activities between Festool and (at first) unnamed video reviewers (the reviewers in question are publicly quite clear about any Festool affiliation and how tools were obtained).  When requested to stop or provide additional explanation/ evidence slimm responded by claiming a variety of high handed injustices which are simply untrue. Followed by personal attacks both publicly and privately. As well as an out right refusal to curtail the activity that was brought in to question in the first place.    Simply unacceptable.

Seth

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Offline TylerC

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2017, 02:29 PM »
I completely stand behind the moderators on this. The idea that the moderators or Festool are banning people for expressing critical opinions is clearly unfounded. The FOG is filled with evidence of this. Negative opinions are fine. Unfounded personal attacks are not. Based on the feedback, many FOGgers agree.

I look forward to moving on to more productive conversations.

Offline Vondawg

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2017, 08:19 AM »
I completely agree and thank the moderators.
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Offline bobfog

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2017, 01:42 PM »
My first ever exposure to Festool was probably nearing 10 years ago.

I frequented a car detailing website, detailing was just really starting to gather momentum in the UK at that time, and had a handful of "celebrity" detailers in the community. One day a "celebrity" professional detailer wrote a glowing review of a rotary polisher from a brand virtually nobody had heard of before. It was IIRC a Festool Shinex rotary polisher and was said to cost about £400. At that time the most popular machine was a Makita @ £150, so clearly £400 was considered obscene.

Yet, this review was absolutely glowing, the machine was said to be a game changer and "the best £400 he had ever spent", later it transpired he hadn't spent £400, it was a "long term loan" from Festool where by the better his review, and the more regularly he pushed the virtues of it on the forum, the looooooooooooooonger the term would be...

So not strictly paying for a review, but certainly poor ethical implications from this kind of behaviour.

Offline bobfog

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Re: Festool youtube review - Please provide your thoughts
« Reply #59 on: July 01, 2017, 01:51 PM »
just take the vids for what it is, just dont believe any of it and go buy the tool yourself and try for 30 days.

"Don't believe any of it" can apply equally to the positive and negative.
I like AVE's videos in general, and he is not paid to do tear downs. If he us showing a plain bearing it is likely that is factual.

I think AVE is an absolute legend. Ok I understand he's made a few mistakes in reviews and might not be the absolute last word in technical expertise and knowledge, but he's got a hundred times the knowledge of most of us and is highly entertaining.

It's a bit like Top Gear/The Grand Tour with Clarkson, Hammond and May - they might not be the best drivers or know the most about cars, but they're pretty good and highly entertaining.