Author Topic: HKC 55 EB review  (Read 125303 times)

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Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2015, 04:57 AM »
Just to clarify on aluminum blades. There is little to no protrusions with the tooth set. Essentially the blade plate is about as thick as the kerf. It shouldn't cut into your track

Ok, could you elaborate a little on that?
The kerf on the "standard" blades are 1,8mm (three of them) and the kerf on the two "special" blades are 2,2mm - how would that not affect the cutting strip?

(I might be wrong about this but) I think both the special blades (TF52/TF48)  are for _the TS55 saw system_ and therefore have the wrong blade thickness. They are listed for the other saws at Festool but also included in the HKC55 accessory line up.

From what I gather the HKC55 blades are not compatible with the TS55 and derivatives (hence the cross out symbol) but the other way around works - though the kerf is different and that would have you changing the cutting strip everytime you switch blades or lose accuracy. 

Different kerf sizes are a pain in the neck I think. Especially with the Mafell style clip on rails.

The issue is not the kerf, it's where the kerf is cut relative to the saws position on the track. This may be a non issue ... and I'm hoping Festool thought this through.

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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2015, 05:29 AM »
I thought that the saw's arbor was in a fixed position relative to the chassis and that tracks position is also fixed relative to the chassis.
As the arbor is on the left of the blade, and the splinter strip is also facing right, then the left hand side (LHS) of the blade should be in a constant position relative to splinter strip??

If it was thinker blades and teeth bit the teeth to thickness was constant then it would not seem to be an issue.

Or are we saying the blade's teeth's left hand side may vary in offset from the blade's arbor surface?
i.e. the blades have a constant base thickness, but the teeth can be wider or narrower?

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2015, 06:13 AM »
I thought that the saw's arbor was in a fixed position relative to the chassis and that tracks position is also fixed relative to the chassis.
As the arbor is on the left of the blade, and the splinter strip is also facing right, then the left hand side (LHS) of the blade should be in a constant position relative to splinter strip??

If it was thinker blades and teeth bit the teeth to thickness was constant then it would not seem to be an issue.

Or are we saying the blade's teeth's left hand side may vary in offset from the blade's arbor surface?
i.e. the blades have a constant base thickness, but the teeth can be wider or narrower?

You said it better! [wink] Can't find any blade profile shots ...

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2015, 06:15 AM »
That's exactly my thinking as well

Offline neeleman

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2015, 06:32 AM »
Let's clear this out if somebody of Festool (UK?) gives an explanation about this.
They should know how they designed the saw blade position.

It would stop a lot of confusion about the different kerves of the blades relative to the splinter strip.
Festoolian since 1998.
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Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2015, 06:38 AM »
I thought that the saw's arbor was in a fixed position relative to the chassis and that tracks position is also fixed relative to the chassis.
As the arbor is on the left of the blade, and the splinter strip is also facing right, then the left hand side (LHS) of the blade should be in a constant position relative to splinter strip??

If it was thinker blades and teeth bit the teeth to thickness was constant then it would not seem to be an issue.

Or are we saying the blade's teeth's left hand side may vary in offset from the blade's arbor surface?
i.e. the blades have a constant base thickness, but the teeth can be wider or narrower?

You said it better! [wink] Can't find any blade profile shots ...

You usually word things better than me, but I am happy to team up.
If we get a third we can have matching shirts...  [wink]

With a micrometer or calliper, then one should be able to just measure the base material and across the teeth to see if the delta is constant?

Offline philphilop

  • Posts: 49
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2015, 07:54 AM »
Word has it that the TSC is a flop in Europe because of its heavy unbalanced feel and the fact that it eats batteries, so dealers down here in southern europe are reluctant to stock an 18v heavy HKC in fear of it staying on stock.


Festool have sold far more than they were hoping to, and can't produce them fast enough to meet the demand - hardly a 'flop'...

Says Who
Owns, tape measure and a knife. Next on my list are 3 pencils

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2015, 08:02 AM »
Word has it that the TSC is a flop in Europe because of its heavy unbalanced feel and the fact that it eats batteries, so dealers down here in southern europe are reluctant to stock an 18v heavy HKC in fear of it staying on stock.


Festool have sold far more than they were hoping to, and can't produce them fast enough to meet the demand - hardly a 'flop'...

Says Who

Obviously not you ... you're too busy not supporting your initial bash at the product!

Demand exceeded supply in Australia when I was buying mine. Maybe our arms are a little stronger that the average southern european.

Offline philphilop

  • Posts: 49
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2015, 08:29 AM »
Once again says who
Owns, tape measure and a knife. Next on my list are 3 pencils

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2015, 08:37 AM »
Once again says who

I find this highly amusing. You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder ... SAYS ME [big grin]

Mouse getting heavy?

Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #40 on: June 18, 2015, 09:19 AM »
Since we are gossiping I will chime in on what I have heard  [big grin] and that is that the demand IS higher than the production run and that is mainly because of the start up problems with a delay on the HKC55 due to a understrength/faulty component being replaced. This caused a temporary halt in production and a backlog on orders.

Since production has been so low and demand has been fairly high I think it is pointless to debate "demand vs production" on the HKC 55. If you combine all markets of course demand will be higher than initial supply at release - if Festool had managed to stock up before delivery then demand and production might have been more balanced. Once the first "rush" is over then we will see how popular it really is.   

In Sweden the vendors don't have the sets available due to short supply (not the same as high demand) but they sell the rail guides separately at set prices with the "Basic" HKC55. At least the two that I have spoken to, the two largest vendors.

I like the HKC55 but it doesn't have a given place in my set up and is a little limited. The TSC55 is even less appealing, mainly due to poor vac integration and the twin-battery solution.  Together they complement each other well but at a very high cost and compromising on the on site vac integration and who would want to haul both around?


Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline philphilop

  • Posts: 49
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #41 on: June 18, 2015, 09:52 AM »
Once again says who

I find this highly amusing. You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder ... SAYS ME [big grin]

Mouse getting heavy?

You said that supply outstripped demand when you ordered one, so tell me who told you that information, I don't have a chip on my shoulder i just ak a simple question which needs a simple answer because their is a glut of them in France and the UK.

You need to move on in life, mice are history in this part of the world, touch pads and voice commands are the norm now.
Owns, tape measure and a knife. Next on my list are 3 pencils

Offline jools

  • Posts: 258
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #42 on: June 18, 2015, 02:54 PM »
Ive owned one for a week and I am happy. It does what it is designed for. It's a  18v battery framing/cross cut saw. That's it. Not complicated. Don't moan that it doesn't do what it's not designed too. If I'm 10m in the air on scaffold framing a roof it's brilliant. Cutting batten to length, brilliant. Cutting chip board flooring, standing on what you lay, brilliant. It comes with its own rails in 3 lengths and if you can flatten a battery and fix the bits you've cut before the next ones charged your a lot quicker than I am.  If I was to cut 1200 x 2400 sheet goods for sheathing I would use the TSC55 and the 2700 rail again brilliant I'm up a height and the last thing I need is cables and hoses in the way.   If I'm working in a kitchen fit decent electric is available and I use the TS55. Would I use the HKC for a cut out in solid oak counter top, No, just the same as most users don't mitre with a of1010. Will the TSC do a cut out yes and the OF1400 will mitre countertop. But if I fitted kitchens all week I would want the TS55 and the OF2200, the best for the job. I think the quote is " you can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time". As to stock levels, production numbers or wether it's a flop or not who cares. The tool is in my hands and I'm using and liking it and it's helping to earn my living. Says Me [big grin]
Regards Jools
It started with one little sander

Offline wrightwoodwork

  • Posts: 410
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #43 on: June 18, 2015, 03:10 PM »
Sounds like the saw is working perfectly for your needs

Offline blk65brd

  • Posts: 62
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #44 on: June 18, 2015, 06:22 PM »
Most people i know, a lot, only use their portable saws for cutting floorboards @30mm, plinths and architraves @25mm, sheets @22mm and framing @35mm so why dont festool make a smaller portable saw like the KSS 300 which is very popular in all diciplines of woodworking, very light and small. Word has it that the TSC is a flop in Europe because of its heavy unbalanced feel and the fact that it eats batteries, so dealers down here in southern europe are reluctant to stock an 18v heavy HKC in fear of it staying on stock.

Festool - USA, please note that "southern europe does not choose to stock", please send theirs to the US, they will be sold.......Festool HKC 55 EB Li-Basic 18v Circular Saw Bare Unit in SYS 4 T-LOC would be fine, no need for the chargers or the batteries, please also ship the rails, they should have no problem with UL.






EDIT> fixed quote box
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 12:43 AM by SRSemenza »

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2015, 06:40 PM »
Ive owned one for a week and I am happy. It does what it is designed for. It's a  18v battery framing/cross cut saw. That's it. Not complicated. Don't moan that it doesn't do what it's not designed too. If I'm 10m in the air on scaffold framing a roof it's brilliant. Cutting batten to length, brilliant. Cutting chip board flooring, standing on what you lay, brilliant. It comes with its own rails in 3 lengths and if you can flatten a battery and fix the bits you've cut before the next ones charged your a lot quicker than I am.  If I was to cut 1200 x 2400 sheet goods for sheathing I would use the TSC55 and the 2700 rail again brilliant I'm up a height and the last thing I need is cables and hoses in the way.   If I'm working in a kitchen fit decent electric is available and I use the TS55. Would I use the HKC for a cut out in solid oak counter top, No, just the same as most users don't mitre with a of1010. Will the TSC do a cut out yes and the OF1400 will mitre countertop. But if I fitted kitchens all week I would want the TS55 and the OF2200, the best for the job. I think the quote is " you can please some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time". As to stock levels, production numbers or wether it's a flop or not who cares. The tool is in my hands and I'm using and liking it and it's helping to earn my living. Says Me [big grin]
Regards Jools

You've nailed it (sorry) ...

Festool makes tools with a particular set of tasks in mind.  They're not into making something that can be used as a piano, peel carrots and walk the dog.

Just because something is a saw, it's not intended to saw EVERYTHING in every situation.

The HKC, TSC and TS 55's are three different tools with obvious similarities.

Just for info sake I'd like to pose a question ... How many of us dance around the work shop (listening to the latest incarnation of Abba) waving their track saws above their heads? Just curious. If the number is high I believe there may be a new specific use market for Festool to address.

Online Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 11950
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2015, 05:19 AM »
Here is a suggestion:  How about we continue talking about the saw civilly (should be a universally understood phrase) and leave the other baggage off of the forum.

Peter Halle - Moderator

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2015, 05:41 AM »
Now as to the HKC 55, I am looking forward to its Australian release and have started saving.

Yes, my Festool saving sock is ripe (no cheese references intended here) ... it was on hold while I waited to win the Vecturo I so obviously deserved [mad] [sad]

Now if Northern Abrasives just got the "online sales" part of their online store happening. ROB???

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #48 on: June 19, 2015, 11:46 AM »
Country and culture bashing posts have been removed. Not OK on FOG.


Seth

Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #49 on: June 19, 2015, 02:02 PM »
I will investigate blade thickness on Monday as I will pick up some Fessy-stuff anyway and will be able to cross compare in shop and with a caliper.

I do believe that the blades are actually thinner than the standard plunge saw blades (as the Mafell ones are) and hence the crossed out compatibility symbol. I think that using thinner blades that aren't compatible with the existing machines is a problem for the end user - blades are not cheap and buying a spare blade would be a more complicated matter - especially if they are not cross compatible.

Unless any moderators or other members can chime in on the matter I will post back on Monday afternoon (CET).

Snippet from the manual:

"Only saw blades with the following specifications can be used: saw blade diameter 160 mm; recommended cutting width 1,8 mm, max. 2.2 mm with restricted function of guide wedge; locating bore 20 mm; recommended steel blade thickness 1,5 mm, max. 1.8 mm."

See my underscore: this might imply that the guide wedge is around 1,8mm?
See last paragraph: This implies that the blades are 1,5 to 1,8mm thick, i.e. slimmer than the other plunge saw blades?

I think the main point is lack of compatibility with the other battery operated saw - for the TSC55 the HKC blades are not an option and for the HKC the TSC55 blades are not recommended. I think this is a serious flaw as they would complement each other more of they shared blades. 

« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 02:17 PM by Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits »
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #50 on: June 19, 2015, 05:39 PM »
It could be a matter of how the saw pivots for bevel cuts. What is the thickness of the hkc guide? Does it differ from standard Festool tracks? Perhaps the geometry of the saw differs to accommodate this. Or, given it is only a 93.6 max wattage motor, it is underpowered for thicker blades. Back to my original statement regarding kerf thickness, particularly with aluminum blades, if the kerf is thicker, this increase is mainly on the offcut side, as the teeth only protrude a fraction of a mm outside of the blade body. I really can't see that protrusion being more than the supplied blade. It's perhaps even less. I do not own this saw or festools aluminum blades but I did investigate the aluminum blades at my local dealer, as this question has come up before.

Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2015, 04:57 AM »
Ghostfist: I think that the supplied/offered HKC blade is a bit thinner in material than all the other _regular_ Festool blades.
Given the actual power of the HKC55 I would be surprised if the blades were not thinner.
 
I know you are well familiar with the Mafell offerings and I haven't used a TS55 in a few years but from memory the Festool blades are thicker. (I use the Mafell KSS300 and Bosch GKT55CE, both Plug it fitted).

I am thinking more of the splinter strip and and "flipkeil" and not so much the height of the HKC guide. I would be surprised if the HKC didn't pivot like the Mafell "equivalent" saw does.

I have toyed with the HKC55 and the shortrails "feel" like the standard rails in height but I am not definitely sure on that.

I like some of the Festool improvements on the HKC55 over the Mafell version, both the release on the rail stop and the plunge action for the cutting wedge is better implemented on the HKC55. The depth guide is very smart showing on/off rail always but I don't know if it is the same on the KSS400.

Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline andy5405

  • Posts: 402
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2015, 02:04 AM »
Just for info sake I'd like to pose a question ... How many of us dance around the work shop (listening to the latest incarnation of Abba) waving their track saws above their heads? Just curious. If the number is high I believe there may be a new specific use market for Festool to address.

I do, though sometimes I like a change and do it to AC/DC.

Online Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2727
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2015, 03:02 AM »
Just for info sake I'd like to pose a question ... How many of us dance around the work shop (listening to the latest incarnation of Abba) waving their track saws above their heads? Just curious. If the number is high I believe there may be a new specific use market for Festool to address.

I do, though sometimes I like a change and do it to AC/DC.

Well Kev you did ask!  [big grin]

Rail screwed to ceiling whilst working a while back on our big city Reno.

Would'nt say I exactly waved the TS55 around doing this!  [eek]




Re the HKC 55, I am saving. Anyone know any good rumours re the Aussie release date?

@Kev @andy5405

« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 03:08 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2015, 03:40 AM »
I think Oz has slipped down the international release ladder. Whodunnit? Hmm.

Realistically I'd be taking up the desire for a HKC with Santa if you're in Oz.

Offline Larso

  • Posts: 128
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2015, 03:52 AM »
Original release date was Aug/Sept but apparently the demand is out stripping supply and the downunder release date keeps being put back.
Hopefully Sept/Oct but i think it could even be after Santa if everyone else keeps buying up the available production.

Online Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2727
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2015, 10:23 AM »
I think Oz has slipped down the international release ladder. Whodunnit? Hmm.

Realistically I'd be taking up the desire for a HKC with Santa if you're in Oz.

Yes Kev and Larso.

I understand that Festool Aust is already planing the Christmas release with a video that goes something like this -



Audio - Royalty Free from ITunes.

@Larso  @Kev




« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 10:31 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7652
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2015, 12:08 PM »
I think Oz has slipped down the international release ladder. Whodunnit? Hmm.

Realistically I'd be taking up the desire for a HKC with Santa if you're in Oz.

Yes Kev and Larso.

I understand that Festool Aust is already planing the Christmas release with a video that goes something like this -



Audio - Royalty Free from ITunes.

@Larso  @Kev

I hope Peter and Seth aren't in charge of the naughty or nice list ... we could be in trouble [eek] [big grin]

Offline ifit

  • Posts: 228
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2015, 01:40 PM »
I received my hkc 55 and short rail today and put it through its paces
very impressed - it makes an excellent 2nd fix saw, my tsc55 will be coming out of the van now and into early retirement

Offline ifit

  • Posts: 228
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2015, 09:07 AM »
2nd day in and i was ripping some lengths of mdf with a 45 on my rail, stopped and went to lift the saw out as i would my ts55
I forgot the blade does not retract and I've taken a half circle out of my rail [crying]
Other than that the saw is good

I have found it easier to drop a standard rail on for cross cutting than use the special rail