Author Topic: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.  (Read 125363 times)

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Offline Brice Burrell

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MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« on: January 12, 2008, 09:07 PM »
EDIT: You can find a PDF format copy of this review here, MFS User's Guide by Brice Burrell
The PDF is also attached at the bottom of this post.           
         



The Festool MFS, Multi-routing template.


  Here is a look at the Festool MFS 400 and MFS 700, multi-routing template system. While these tools excel as routing templates they are capable of far more. Routing operations like open field inlays, boarders, cut outs, mortises, routing circles, curves and arcs are just part of what the MFS system can do. Use the MFS with your Multi Function Table to help square the guide rail with the table, or as a cutting fence, I've even used the profiles as a temple to make cuts with my jigsaw! To understand the full value of this accessory don't think of it as a "Routing Template". Envision profiles that form templates, squares, fences, stops, story sticks and jigs of every kind, a "Multi-Function Profile" system.

  The first thing I'd like to do is credit Jerry Work, Ned Young and John Lucas for the work that they have already done to help us get the most out of the MFS and the Festool system. Some of the methods, techniques and ideas you will see here have come from their writings. So, thank you gentlemen. *See "Notes" at the bottom of this page.

        The components of the MFS 400 and MFS 700.

To get started lets took a look at the components that make up the MFS template system. Knowing the what the parts are and what they do from the beginning will help you understand the functions and methods later on in this review. 


In this photo you see what is included with the MFS 400 set: two 400 mm and two 200 mm profiles, two angle stops, anti-tilting insert, circle cutting insert and pivot, 3 mm ball head allen driver, connecting hardware and instruction manual. The MFS 700 set (not pictured above)includes all of the same except it's profiles are 400 mm and 700 mm.


The MFS profiles are aluminum extrusions with graduated Metric scales printed on. Profiles are 80 mm wide and 16 mm thick with a series of "Joiner" or "V"slots and "Clamp" slots. The Joiner or V slots are for the connecting hardware, circle cutting insert and pivot and the coupling hardware (not included with the sets) for joining profiles length wise. I'll go into detail on how to join the profiles in it's own section in this review.


 The Festool FSZ 120, FSZ 300 and FS-HZ clamps fit in the clamp slots. As does the guide rail connectors, they can as be used to join the profiles in length. Plus 1/4" square and hex nuts also fit if you want to add a fixture to the profiles or mount them to jig or table with your own (imperial sized) hardware.


The 3 mm ball head driver is used on almost all of the MFS hardware. The the ball head allows the driver to be used on an angle as shown in this photo.


The angle stops mount into the V slots and are used to help position the MFS.

* Notes: Here is a link to Jerry Work's MFS manual. Jerry Work designs and hand crafts fine furniture in Kerby, OR. Check out his site, The Dovetail Joint. Ned Young started a thread on the Festool Owners Group forum, Notes on the MFS. John Lucas has shared a lot of great ideas on his site, WoodShopDemos.

Text and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell

In the interests of full disclosure, this tool was provided by Festool for review purposes.

PDF attached below.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 04:58 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2008, 09:10 PM »
Until I have time to replace all of the missing images you can find the whole guide in PDF format here,             
         





Here the angle stops are mounted on the bottom of the MFS to precisely locate the MFS for an inlay.


This is the anti-tilting insert, it is used to prevent the router from tipping or tilting during routing operations. If the router is tilted the work piece can be ruined. Copying rings fit into the anti-tilting insert, this allows the it to travel with the router. The insert can fit 24, 27, 30 and 40 mm copying rings.


Here you can see the insert in place under the router. The insert is only needed when the profiles are spread to far apart for the router's base to be fully supported by the profiles themselves.


This is the circle cutting insert and pivot. Again, I'll go into more detail about how to use the MFS to rout circles, curves and arcs in it's own section.

Festool offers some other accessories not shown in this review. Longer profiles are available, 1000 mm profiles and 2000 mm profiles to extend the MFS template system. The Routing Slide used with the MFS to support the router when routing out large areas, for example open field inlays. Also offered, as spare parts, are a set of 4 MFS "Joiners" (part # 493235) that fit into the V slots to connect profiles length wise, you'll need to call Festool's service department to order the joiners.

Alright, you've seen the parts, now let's see what they do. On the next post, I'm going to start with:Connecting the MFS profiles.

Text and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell

« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 09:42 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline brandon.nickel

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 12:07 AM »
Very nice, Brice.  I've been waiting for a good photo-essay of how to use this.  I just made my own version of the follower this evening to use my OF1400 to roundover the curved edge of a lazy suzan.  A countersunk M6 in a scrap of 3/4 plywood worked quite well.  I also used the same technique to make a trammel arm to cut the circles out.  I'm looking forward to the rest of this post.
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Offline Garry

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2008, 12:11 AM »
I know I'm excited.  I got the 700 recently with no idea how to utilize it, other than for a box lid I want to make with a trough (sp?) in it for an insert.  I can't wait for the rest of htis review.
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Offline Eiji Fuller

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2008, 01:17 AM »
Brice,

On the pic showing the angle stops it looks as if the mfs profile with the stops attached to it is bent or the joining piece is not square causing it to tilt off plane. What's up with that?

Eiji

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2008, 08:21 AM »
Brice,

On the pic showing the angle stops it looks as if the mfs profile with the stops attached to it is bent or the joining piece is not square causing it to tilt off plane. What's up with that?

Eiji

  Eiji, it's because the hardware on the profiles is loose, I hadn't set the MFS to size yet. Sorry, I should replace that pic to avoid any confusion.

(Edit, I replaced the old pic of the angle stops.)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 04:43 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2008, 08:30 AM »
             
               
             




Connecting the MFS profiles. 
 
  In this section I'm going to show how to connect the profiles into rectangles and length wise. 


The MFS profiles have male and female ends, they are shown here. The male ends have two small studs or indexing pins to align the profiles. Also the male ends have the connectiong hardware, notice the "V" nut with a ball detent.


The male end fits into the female end to index the profiles length wise, guide rail connector or the MFS jointer can be used to secure the connection. Guide rail connectors (fitted into the clamp slot) are used in the photo above.


The V nut on the male end of the profile fits into the V slot in the edge of another profile. The male's indexing pins also fit into the edge V slots to ensure perfect alignment.



This shot is of a close up of two profiles connected.


To make a rectangle, connect two profiles, a short and long one, to form a "L" with the scales on the inside. Use the allen driver to secure the jiont.


You can see from this picture that the scales are on the inside of the "L". The scales are an important feature of the MFS, they allow the template to be quickly set to size.


Once you have two "L" shapes formed, connect the two to make a rectangle.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: May 11, 2018, 09:42 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2008, 07:07 PM »
                         
From the animation you can see how to set or adjust the MFS profiles. They have to move as (sort of "L" shaped) pairs to set the width and length. At first assembling the profiles can be kind of tough, but after doing it a few times you get the feel for it. I've sprayed my profiles, including the hardware, with a dry lubricant, this helps reduce some of the friction while adjusting them. Another added benefit it lets tools slide on them easily.


By combining sets and/or the longer profiles, different shapes can be made. This will greatly increase the usefulness of the system.



It may be necessary to add the connecting hardware to both ends of some of the profiles to join different shapes. The hardware can be removed from one profile and added to another. The bolt and V nut have to be removed and the threaded insert can be taken out. The insert has an allen recess, the insert is reverse threaded, turn clockwise to remove, use a 4 mm allen key. The insert can then be screwed into the another profile, turning counter clockwise, it will self tap into the aluminum. I recommend exercising great care removing and installing the connecting hardware, it would not be hard to strip the aluminum, especially if you forget about the reverse threading.


The angle stops have V nuts that slide into the V slots to mount the stops to the profiles. The stops can be mounted square or on an angle.

  Connecting the profiles can be tricky in the beginning as I've already mentioned, sometimes you wish you had another set of hands to line up all of the hardware. The key is to be patient when connecting and adjusting the MFS profiles. Taking the time to perfectly set the template will show in the ends results that you can achieve with this system.

  Moving on to using the MFS system, it's hard to know what to cover first. I think most people imagine the MFS being used as a routing template, so why not start there.

Coming soon: Template Routing with the MFS System.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:17 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2008, 10:01 AM »
             Template Routing with the MFS System.  
 
  Routing inlays, boarders, cutouts, mortises, circles, curves and arcs can be very accurately done with the MFS. I know my results are much better now that I'm using the MFS instead of the wooden jigs and fixtures I've used in the past. Template routing with the MFS is a fairly straightforward concept. However, there are a few things to keep in mind when deciding how to use and setup this system as a routing template, I'll go over some of them in this section, as well show you how I use the MFS for my routing projects.


  If you happen to be unfamiliar with what template routing is, I'll explain. It is using a jig, fixture or in this case, the MFS profiles to guide a router's travel. The router must have a copying ring (guide bushing) or a bit with a bearing to prevent the bit from cutting into the template as it travels. When using a bit with a bearing, like a flush cut or pattern bit, the profiles can be set to the exact size needed, whether it is a cutout or mortise. This really simplifies the setup. However, using a pattern bit is not without it's risks. The issue is with the bit accidentally cutting into the template/profile. This can happen one of two ways. First, while plunging the bit into the work piece, before the bearing can engages the template (with the bearing still above the profile) it can't stop the bit from going astray and doing bad things to your profile. The second issue is, if the bearing happens to land in the V slot in the edge of the profile, you can run into this with smaller bit as they usually have small bearings that can fall into the slot.


  The picture above shows the potential dangers of using a pattern bit with the MFS. I'm not suggesting pattern bits can't be used, but, care must be taken when selecting the right bit. Bearing size, cutting length and diameter should factored into the decision. When used in the right circumstances they can be a real asset.

  I use the MFS most often to rout for hardware like lock sets, strikes, latches and catches, but, most of all hinges. I've made all kinds of jigs to rout hinges, all of them out of wood or MDF. While they do work, it is usually only a short time before they become inaccurate from relatively light use. If you have ever used a wooden jig you know what I mean. I've had to add very thin shims to my hinge templates to finish jobs, not wanting to make a new jig to rout one or two more hinges. That drove my nuts! Now, I use the MFS, it is so much faster, easier and far more accrete then the wooden jigs ever were. I can setup the MFS and make a test cut in about five minutes or less. If it needs to be adjusted, that can usually be done in less than one minute. If a wooden jig is off, you're stuck shimming or remaking the entire jig. So let me show you how I use the MFS with a small pattern bit to rout hinges.


The first step is to mark the setback for the hinge, I'll use this line to index the MFS.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:17 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2008, 10:07 AM »

With the small pattern bit I use to rout my hinges I can set the MFS to the exact length of the hinge. The width is set wide enough so I can test fit the hinge without removing the MFS.


Once the MFS is set to size, I place it on the pencil line then set the angle stops and clamp the work piece/MFS down.


Here is a close look at the bit I'll be using, it is the same type that I showed earlier, you can see I've add a second bearing to solve the problem of the bearing falling into the V slot. It is a 1/2" diameter, this will match the 1/4" radius on the hinges.


After installing the bit, the next step is to set the router's depth, plunge the router until it comes into contact with the work piece, this is zeroing the bit. Now, I use the hinge itself between one of the turret stops and the depth rod to set the exact depth.


It's time to rout, with the profiles set to be wider then the hinge this leaves an open space for me to fully plunge the bit before contacting the work piece. I make systematic passes removing small amounts pre pass. Again with the MFS wider than the hinge, I can test fit the hinge without removing the template. When I'm happy with the fit, I remove the MFS and test fit once more and make adjustments as needed.


I got a perfect fit on the first try, but remember to always make test cuts on scrap first.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: January 30, 2009, 09:13 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Jesse Cloud

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2008, 10:25 AM »
Thanks Brice!  This is a great tutorial.  I got an MFS for Christmas and haven't tried it out yet.  You have saved me a lot of time and frustration!!

Offline Rob McGilp

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2008, 02:04 PM »
Great stuff Brice! Tell me, is there any point in buying the 400 if you can do everything it does and more with the 700?

Regards,

Rob

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2008, 03:11 PM »
Great stuff Brice! Tell me, is there any point in buying the 400 if you can do everything it does and more with the 700?

Regards,

Rob


  Well Rob, that is a hard question to answer. I would recommend getting both sets and maybe even the longer 1000 or 2000 mm profiles too. The more I use these things the more uses I find for them. One of the big reasons I can do so many things with the MFS system is from having more than one set. Later on in this review I'll show a few things that can't really be done with one set.

That being said, I understand most people have very real budget constants. If you feel more of your work is going to be with smaller projects then the MFS 400 is a good fit. If you take a look at MFS 400 I'm using to rout the hinges in the pictures above, you can see it seems pretty large compared to the work piece. Imagine using the MFS 700 to that job, it could be a little awkward. Of course it can be done. OTOH, if you want to do larger work, the 400 can't do it, get the 700 set.

  Rob, I really think you would like the MFS. It is so easy to do inlay work with the MFS, as Jerry Work says in his manual, inlays add a lot of perceived value to a piece. The effort verses the return in the added value of your work more than makes up for the price you pay for the MFS templates.

  Keep checking back over the next few days, I 'll be adding a lot more to this review.
   
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Offline Rob McGilp

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2008, 04:27 PM »
Thanks Brice,
You've answered my question perfectly.

Regards,

Rob

Offline Steven in Iowa

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2008, 05:40 PM »
Brice,
  I vote for you writing a 'Festool' book.  Your detailed pictorials are some of the best I've seen and read.  You cannot believe how much they've pushed my understanding of the Festools I own.  Keep up the great work.  AND thanks.
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Offline CharlesWilson

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 11:13 PM »
Brice,

In one of your posts, you said:

It may be necessary to add the connecting hardware to both ends of some of the profiles to join different shapes. The hardware can be removed from one profile and added to another. The bolt and V nut have to be removed and the threaded insert can be taken out. The insert has an allen recess, the insert is reverse threaded, turn clockwise to remove, use a 4 mm allen key. The insert can then be screwed into the another profile, turning counter clockwise, it will self tap into the aluminum. I recommend exercising great care removing and installing the connecting hardware, it would not be hard to strip the aluminum, especially if you forget about the reverse threading.

I would just like to point out that I tried to buy additional connecting hardware from FestoolUSA, but they don't seem to be able to provide it!  Also, as I mentioned in a previous thread, I tried to by just two of the 200mm rails, so that I could obtain a lot of the functionality you described (added to my MFS 700 and 1000mm rails), but, again, the part is NAINA.

I hope that your great picture book of MFS applications will induce FestoolUSA to make these parts available.

Great Job!!

Charles
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2008, 10:32 AM »

Let's now look at using copying rings or guide bushings with the MFS. The advantage of using copying rings is twofold, they are always in place while routing, greatly reducing the chance of cutting into the profile and they work with most bits used for template routing, regardless of the bit's cutting length. Unlike bearing guided bits where the cutter's length is so important. Of course you do have to account for the offset between the bit and the copying ring when setting the MFS to size.


The following is a series of drawings showing the setup of the MFS for a mortise. Our mortise will be 20 mm wide by 100 mm long and 50 mm deep. A 10 mm bit will be used with a 30 mm copying ring in the router. We need to account for the space between the bit and to the outside edge of the copying ring, called offset, when we set the MFS profiles to size. The offset for this bit/copying ring combination is 10 mm.


Knowing the offset is 10 mm we add that number twice (20 mm) to the width and length of the mortise. 40 mm x 120 mm is what the MFS should be set at to produce our 20 mm X 100 mm mortise.


Clamp the MFS down where you want it, set the depth of the bit, rout...... The result should be this, a mortise 20 mm X 100 mm X 50 mm.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:20 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2008, 10:38 AM »
Working in Metric makes setting the MFS to size pretty easy, however, I understand most of you are much more comfortable working in Imperial. So let's do another mortise with Imperial measurements, but this time I'll be cutting real wood.


How about a mortise 3/4" wide, 3" long and 1/2" deep. In the router is a 1/2" straight bit with a 3/4" bushing. So the total offset I need to account for is 1/4".


Setting the MFS to size in Imperial measurements I use a steel rule. With the offset added the dimensions are 1" X 3 1/4".


With the MFS set to size, I'll place the template on the work piece, I've drawn lines to indicate were the MFS will be set and the mortise will be cut. Once everything has been set (MFS and the bit depth) and then clamped, I start the routing.


A shallow mortise like this one only takes a few passes.


The finished mortise. The angle stops make it a breeze to set the MFS up quickly when you need to rout the same location/size mortises on multiple work pieces. Just imagine the ease of routing traditional M&T joints for table and chair legs or mission style furniture.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:21 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Dan Clermont

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2008, 11:50 AM »
Nicely done Brice!

The pictures are worth a 1000 words!

Have you tried routing a groove for a rail and stile door using this system? I am thinking their may not be enough wood on either side to register the MFS properly but perhaps I am wrong

Dan Clermont
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Offline clintholeman

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2008, 11:56 AM »
Brice-

You done really, really good here!  The pix are worth 10,000 words.

A ton of thanks to you!

Offline bruegf

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2008, 12:45 PM »
D#$#@@#n you Brice,

Now I want one of those too.   Excellent job, as always.   Keep up the great work.

Fred
Fred

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2008, 01:52 PM »
Have you tried routing a groove for a rail and stile door using this system? I am thinking their may not be enough wood on either side to register the MFS properly but perhaps I am wrong

Dan Clermont

Dan, I haven't, but, I'm sure it can be done. check out the pictures below. It's from my jack miter "how to", notice the work piece clamped to the side of the MFT with MFS then supported/clamped to the table top. If your rails and stiles are narrow, like for cabinet doors then let something like in the last two pics. A block of wood to offer some support.

Thanks everyone, I'm glad you guys are finding this worth while. I'm not even half way through this review yet, so if you aren't ready to buy the MFS yet, you will be by the end.  :P 
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Offline Dan Clark

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2008, 02:06 PM »
Brice,

Very nice!    As the saying goes, a pic is worth a thousand words.   But I like the drawings even better.  Sometimes a drawing is worth a bunch of pics!    The drawings of the copying ring and MFS' do a great job of clarifying the concept.

Therefore, I'm giving you the OH ficial:



And the brand new (just for you):


Regards,

Dan.

« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 02:07 PM by Dan Clark »

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2008, 04:28 PM »
Inlays are a great way to add some interesting detail to your projects. The inlay I am going to do now is a simple and relativity small but it is going to have a huge impact on the piece.


We start the same way as the rest of the examples by selecting the bit/copying ring combo, setting the MFS to size. In the picture here I'm add some scrap stock to act as shims to help support the MFS.


More of the same, set the depth of the bit and rout. I need to be a little careful because I'm routing off each edge, tare out can happen here. Removing small amounts near the edges will greatly reduce the chance of tare out.


Here are the pieces that I will use for the inlay, zebra wood.


With the pieces fitting perfectly, some blue tape will help hold the pieces in alignment until I can glue and clamp them.


In the photo above the excess zebra wood has been cut off and the piece sanded. Using the MFS to rout this inlay was not much effort, but, added a lot of visual appeal to this piece.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:22 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Steve Rowe

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2008, 06:06 PM »
Dan,
I don't know if you've ever noticed this or not but, did you know that you have two right hands? ;D

Brice,
Good thread and great pictures.
Thanks,
Steve

Brice,

Very nice!    As the saying goes, a pic is worth a thousand words.   But I like the drawings even better.  Sometimes a drawing is worth a bunch of pics!    The drawings of the copying ring and MFS' do a great job of clarifying the concept.

Therefore, I'm giving you the OH ficial:



And the brand new (just for you):


Regards,

Dan.



Offline Dan Clark

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2008, 10:22 PM »
Steve,

Yep.   When I first tried this, I made them mirror images.  Looked dumb!   :o   (Actually, two thumbs up looks dumb too, but not quite as bad!   ;D )

Regards,

Dan.

Dan,
I don't know if you've ever noticed this or not but, did you know that you have two right hands? ;D

Brice,
Good thread and great pictures.
Thanks,
Steve

Brice,

Very nice!    As the saying goes, a pic is worth a thousand words.   But I like the drawings even better.  Sometimes a drawing is worth a bunch of pics!    The drawings of the copying ring and MFS' do a great job of clarifying the concept.

Therefore, I'm giving you the OH ficial:



And the brand new (just for you):


Regards,

Dan.



Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2008, 10:49 PM »
Brice,

I vote your tutorial on use of the MFS the best yet!!  Thanks.  Now I want one (or two).  I am a bit concerned reading about the difficulty (impossibility) that some have expressed about components not being available in NA.  I looked into availability of the extra connectors kit about a year ago and was told "no" so I refused to buy any set.

Thanks, also, to Jerry for his excellent manual on this tool.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline jo041326

  • Posts: 76
  • Czech republic
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2008, 03:24 AM »
Hi Brice,
your tutorials are really outstanding. Perfect photos, simple text. Great. As I wrote you, I am not convinced about some accessories as for the price. But there are some which are hardly to replace with cheaper or simpler solution. And thanks to your tutorial one can see all the possibilities what to do with it. Thank you.
Josef

Offline bruegf

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2008, 08:40 AM »
Brice,

Any chance you will create a PDF of this material when you're finished?  Definitely a document I'd like to add to my reference library.

Thanks

Fred
Fred

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2008, 09:22 AM »
Brice,

Any chance you will create a PDF of this material when you're finished?  Definitely a document I'd like to add to my reference library.

Thanks

Fred

  Fred, at this point the answer is no, however, the review is on my site as well. MFS review. I've never done it, but, I understand it is possible to convert web pages in to PDF files. You could look into that, perhaps someone here knows how to do it.

  I'd like to be able to easily convert this into a PDF, but the document programs I have don't insert photographs very well. And to make things even worse, every time I try to convert a document to a PDF it ends up corrupt. It's a hassle I don't have time to sort out right now.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2008, 09:40 AM »

Taking offset routing one step farther, we'll take a look at making the male portion and female recess for inlays with the MFS. Keeping the MFS the same size and changing the copying rings/bits allows inlays to be cut quickly and accurately. Some of you may be familiar with inlay sets available today, the sets have a bit and guide bushing with a second bushing (with a larger diameter) that slips onto the first. With this type you follow the template to rout the female recess with both the guide bushing and second bushing installed on the router. Then, rout out the male insert with the larger second bushing removed, using the same template. I'll illustrate this principal with the MFS using different size bits and copying rings/guide bushings.


This drawing shows how to use the same bit to rout the male and female potions of an inlay by changing the copying rings. In the drawing the 10 mm bit/20 mm copying ring combo cuts out the male inlay and the 10 mm bit/40 mm copying ring the female recess. The 40 mm copying ring with the 10 mm bit produces a 15 mm offset from the outside edge of the copying ring to the edge of the bit. With the 20 mm ring and 10 mm bit combo used for the male portion, the offset between the edge of the bit and the copying ring is 5 mm. When we add the 5mm offset and the 10 mm bit diameter we get 15 mm, equal to the offset of the female bit/ring combo. The goal is to have the offset of the female's combination of bit/ring be equal to the offset, plus the diameter of the bit used for the male portion. (Offset of Female bit/ring = Offset of Male bit/ring + bit diameter)


Let me show the whole process with a few drawings using these same bit/ring combinations. This example will be an open field inlay 200 mm X 50 mm.


The MFS is set to 230 mm X 80 mm. The rectangle inside the MFS represents the where the inlay will be.


With the 40 mm copying ring and the 10 mm bit in the router, we can rout out the female recess 5 mm deep. The red arrow shows the path of the router making systematic passes to remove all of the material to form the recess.


The recess should look like this. Note the corners have a radius, a chisel will square them up.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:25 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Dan Lyke

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2008, 09:57 AM »
I looked into availability of the extra connectors kit about a year ago and was told "no" so I refused to buy any set.

It comes from the parts department, not the main catalog. I had to stay after my dealer for a phone call or two, but now they know, and presumably now the west coast Festool rep knows too.
Accomplished computer geek, novice woodworker, road cyclist, in Sonoma county, northern California.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2008, 10:02 AM »

With the female recess finished lets turn our attention to the male cut out. The male inlay stock is 5 mm thick to match the female's recess. It is a good idea to placed the stock on top of a sacrificial piece of scrap to prevent cutting into the work table. Also the area that will be the cut out is adhered to the scrap with two sided tape to keep it from being damaged by the bit when it is cut free.


To make the male inlay piece I've installed the 20 mm ring, leaving the 10 mm bit in. To cut out the inlay the router's depth is set to cut all the way through the 5 mm stock. In this model the red arrow indicates the router's path, only traveling around the template's perimeter.


Here is the piece cut free. Unlike the female piece the male has square corners.


Now, with the male inlay cut free, carefully remove it from the two sided tape and try the fit. If all goes according to plan you should have a perfect fit, or, one that will require very little trimming to make fit correctly. If the male piece is too small, trash it, adjust the MFS and make another one, if you have enough stock. It will only take a few minuets, remember, a prefect inlay adds to the value of your project and a sloppy fit takes away from it.

  I should mention in my example of the ring/bit combinations shown above that Festool doesn't offer a 20 mm copying ring (at least not here in the US). I used that ring/bit combo because it is easy to understand the relationships between the offsets. How about if I show you examples with rings and bits Festool does offer, as well as some Imperial combos.


The first bit/ring combination, on the left in the drawing, is the 10 mm bit and 40 mm ring used to rout the female recess, then the 6 mm bit and 24 mm ring to cut the male piece. The second set on the right, to rout the female portion, the 10 mm bit with the 40 mm ring then, the 3 mm bit and 27 mm ring for the male cut out.

  For a couple of Imperial combos, set one: 1/2" bit / 1" bushing (female) and 1/8" bit / 3/8" bushing (male). Seconed set: 1/2" bit / 1 1/4" bushing (female) and 1/4" bit / 1/2" bushing (male). The examples given are only a few of the possible bit/ring combinations commonly available.

On my site, MFS review, page 6, I have one more routing example. If you have want to see how to rout in a mounting plate for a router table using the MFS, check it out.

Coming up, routing circles, curves and arcs.
 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 10:15 AM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Craig Earls

  • Posts: 60
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2008, 12:27 PM »
Brice,
   When you are finished with this thread writeup, I would be happy to reformat the information into a PDF document for you to distribute.  It is a easy way for me to contribute back to this forum.

Craig Earls

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 793
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2008, 01:35 PM »
  Fred, at this point the answer is no, however, the review is on my site as well. MFS review. I've never done it, but, I understand it is possible to convert web pages in to PDF files. You could look into that, perhaps someone here knows how to do it.

I'll take a shot at it when you've completed it.


Fred
Fred

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3337
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2008, 04:31 PM »
Brice, thanks very much for the outstanding job you've done here!

Your post above gets to my pet peeve with the MFS. You said -

" I should mention in my example of the ring/bit combinations shown above that Festool doesn't offer a 20 mm copying ring (at least not here in the US). I used that ring/bit combo because it is easy to understand the relationships between the offsets."

There are 25 and 15mm rings for the 1100 router. And, there are 40 and 30mm rings for the 1400. But, there should be more copy rings available. I noticed in Jerry's manual several rings that are NAINA also. Festool should put together sets (at least conceptually) of rings and bits as accessories (or links) for the MFS.


Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2008, 06:05 PM »

There are 25 and 15mm rings for the 1100 router. And, there are 40 and 30mm rings for the 1400. But, there should be more copy rings available. I noticed in Jerry's manual several rings that are NAINA also. Festool should put together sets (at least conceptually) of rings and bits as accessories (or links) for the MFS.



  The copying rings in my examples are available for both the 1010 and the 1400 (40, 27 and 24 mm rings). I agree offering more rings would be nice and like you say, listing them as accessories would be a big help.

1010, 24 mm ring.
1010, 27 mm ring.
1010, 40 mm ring.
1400, 24 mm ring.
1400, 27 mm ring.
1400, 40 mm ring.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 06:06 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2008, 01:34 PM »
We move from using the router to travel around the MFS as a template, to moving the router and template on a pivot to create circles, curves and arcs.


I'll start with a quick overview of the process for circle cutting before I go into detail. The circle cutting insert fits into the interior V grooves of the profiles, the template is closed on and capturing the insert (see photo above). A 30 mm copying ring fits into the insert, so the next thing to do is install the ring in the router.


The pivot goes in the underside of the profiles, in the V groove closest to the inside of the template. Slide the pivot in as far as it will go, then tighten it with the allen driver.


We need a hole for the pivot to go into, a 8 mm or 5/16" drill bit will do the job.


Slip the pivot in the pilot hole, set the insert to the desired radius and tighten it in place, then set the copying ring/router in the insert. The template and router pivot around the stock to cut the circle. You can see from the picture I'm working out the process on scrap first before committing to the real work piece.

  I initially thought using the MFS to cut circles would be a little awkward, turns out I was wrong. However, setting the size of the MFS to cut circles for the first time was a bit of a challenge for me. Well until I realized the instructions show the insert installed incorrectly. I have some drawings to help illustrate the setup.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell

« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:25 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2008, 01:45 PM »

I'm going to start with showing the finished piece for this example so you can see what I am setting up to rout, a cut out with a lip or rebate.


Step one is to lay out for the pivot point, then drill the pilot hole.


The next step is to set the insert to rout the proper size circle, the pivot is already installed.


Before we move to the next step, let me explain the setup process in detail. The insert is set using the scale on the MFS profile and insert's own scale. The insert's scale is not centered on the hole for the copying ring (see picture above), at first that doesn't seem make much sense. But remember the pivot is offset from the profile's scale, this accounts for the insert's offset scale (say that three times fast). Now, take into account the bit, it's cutting edges are offset from the zero point on the insert. I know, a lot of offsets here, so let me show you a couple of drawings to help clarify things.


This drawing is of the insert, the scale is larger in this picture that the real one, this makes it a little easier to see. The first thing to notice, the scale has graduations on both sides of zero. Zero is the centerline of the cut. The graduations above zero (towards the top of this drawing) represent the outside of the cutting radius, also referred to as R2 in this drawing. And the gradations below zero are the inside radius or R1. In this example a 10 mm bit is used, the outside radius is plus 5 mm from zero and the inside radius is minus 5 mm.


This drawing shows how to set the insert with the MFS scale. With the 10 mm bit, the insert is set to cut a 310 mm outside radius and 300 mm inside radius.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:26 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2008, 01:48 PM »

Alright, back to the example, a 10 mm bit is in the router and the insert set to cut a 100 mm outside radius (90 mm inside). My MFT has a piece of scrap down to protect the top, the work piece has two sided tape to hold it down to the scrap. I've dropped the pivot in the pilot hole, set the depth of the bit to 8 mm. Plunge the router and start turning the template on the pivot to rout the circle.


Here is the result.


Now I want the center cut out, leaving the lip. I've changed bits, a 6 mm spiral bit now in the router. I'll move the insert to cut a 90 mm outside radius for the 6 mm bit. The depth is set to cut all the way through the stock.


Remove the center cutout from the two sided tape and that takes us back to the finished piece, the first picture at the beginning of this example.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:26 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2008, 01:46 PM »
Final thoughts on template routing with the MFS.



For circle cutting the MFS 400 has a maximum diameter around 32" and the MFS 700 around 55". For template routing the 400 set's maximum size is about 4 11/16" x 12 9/16", the 700 set 12 9/16" x 24 7/16". Combining sets and/or the longer profiles greatly increases these sizes (and the usefulness of the MFS system as a whole).


I've found making overlapping, systematic passes while template routing offers the best results. I always check to make sure I haven't missed any spots and the bottom of the routed area is perfectly flat. Be sure to test fit your work before removing the template anytime you can, it is difficult is get the template back exactly where it was to rout a missed spot. Another tip, test your bit / copying ring combinations on scrap first to ensure the results are what you expect. Remember the MFS is as accurate as you set it up to be, so give it the time it requires. Calipers help me set the MFS for smaller work were the routing being off the tiniest amount is not acceptable.


Adding profiles with the angle stops to the outside of the template helps to place and clamp the MFS.


The anti tilt insert is made to fit 24, 27, 30 and 40 mm copying rings, what if you want to use Imperial sized guide bushings? No problem, just use the router's support foot (outrigger) to do the job. Holding the router flat on the template is the key, if the router tilts it can ruin your work piece, so exercise care. One more very important thing to mention, let the rout bit come to a stop or release the plunge mechanism before lifting the router out of the template! In the bit contacts the template you could damage the bit and most certainly cut into the profile. If the profile is cut were the bushing rides that edge of the profile will no longer produce true cuts. The profile is not ruined, it can be turned to have the blemish facing out or turned upside down. However, scale won't be able to be used, greatly affecting ease of setup.


You'll notice the router's dust collection is not as good while routing with the MFS, the open space the template creates lets chips escape, these chip find there way into the profiles. If you let the chips built up in or around the profiles they can affect the template accuracy by getting between the copying ring and the template. I take time to vacuum off the template as needed. Placing the template on the work piece perfectly flat is a must, check to make sure it still flat after you have clamped everything down. Again, make sure no chips are under the template.

  What I've shown in section are just some of the routing jobs that can done with the MFS template. With a little practice (and imagination) you'll be able to do projects that you thought were beyond your skill level. If you are a novice woodworker, the MFS can have you creating more complicated projects in no time. Once you have a grasp of the basics, it's pretty easy to build on those skills. Because the concepts are the same from the simple mortise, to the more complicated routing tasks like intricate inlay work, your skills will build quickly. For the more experienced or the professional woodworker, the MFS simplifies some of the routing jobs we used to do with custom wooden or single purpose built jigs. If you happen to have accurate, well made custom jigs, be all means use them. Building custom jigs can be time consuming, sort of a trial and error process. That's time I'd rather be spending some other, more productive way. Plus, I'm glad not to store custom jigs anymore, I have a notebook, with what Ned Young calls "recipes", of the MFS settings used on past jobs. Sure you have to spend time assembling the template each time you want to use it. I happen to feel the flexibility the MFS offers out weights the small amount of time spent on setup. Accuracy of the MFS is far better than almost any wooden jig I've ever made. My final comments on the MFS as a routing template, no matter if you are a beginner or a pro, the MFS is: fast and easy to setup, the routing is accurate and the results are great.


Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell


« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:27 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline brandon.nickel

  • Posts: 241
  • Currently Peoria, IL - Eventually back to CO
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2008, 05:20 PM »
Brice,

So, how do you use the setup for ellipses?
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2008, 06:39 PM »
Brice,

So, how do you use the setup for ellipses?

I bet there is a way, I haven't given it any thought, yet.
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Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2008, 09:20 PM »
You'd need a slider track, t-shaped, for a router trammel arm to move in. I might use the MFS as the trammel arm itself, the router captive in the circle cutter block, and have an add'l center pivot pin to ride in the track, which would be made out of maybe some kind of curtain track scrap or AL channel, maybe just a routed track in a sheet of ply.
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Offline Corwin

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2008, 12:20 AM »
This thread shows the T-shaped slider Eli is talking about.
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2008, 01:41 AM »
Yes that's the one. Compliments again Anthony (Premium Millwork Install) on a job well done. Thanks Corwin for the link.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 01:42 AM by Eli »
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Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2008, 09:57 AM »

Thanks everyone, I'm glad you guys are finding this worth while. I'm not even half way through this review yet, so if you aren't ready to buy the MFS yet, you will be by the end.  :P 

Thanks, Brice, for another excellent "manual under construction."  As others have said, You should write an entire Festool user's book.

I have been very interested in the MFS since I first read Jerry Work's manual and that interest was renewed when a factory representative gave me and others a demonstration last year at Hartville Tool. 

But I am holding off ordering an MFS until Festool addresses the problem of lack of availability of the extra parts described by Jerry W and Brice that are needed to join additional MFS rail components as described by these great contributors to our understanding.  I hope that Christian O. reads this thread and that he will work with Festool Germany to address this issue.

I have had similar frustration when I tried to order additional fastener components for use with my MFT through Bob Marino.  The products that are available to me at my local hardware stores and big box stores are not the same, and sometimes only the OEM components will work properly because many dimensions are simultaneously important.  One example is the limit stops that grip the guide rails for use the TS 55 or 1400 router; I have a pair of these and want to use them for more than merely stopping the fore-aft movement of a Festool saw or router on a Festool guide rail.  (The bodies of these stops are the same as those used by Festool to construct the side stops used to set the guide rail with the hole drilling (router) jig.)  The screw lengths and nut dimensions are important for these to work properly.  With the right extra parts, one could easily fashion longer (wooden dowel or aluminum hex) rods to enable use with these extra stops for use in repeat rip cuts in wider materials, which I seem to find myself having to do frequently.  These small parts are critical to getting the most out of the Festool system.  Lack of their availability from Festool USA means a lot of wasted time in trying to find local substitutes - most of which I have found to be of inferior quality and somewhat differently dimensioned.

Dave R.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2008, 10:40 AM »
  Dave, I agree, spare parts would be great to have for modifying tools and accessories to better suit our needs. I'm guessing the reluctance of Festool to make these parts more available is to ensure they have the spare parts to make tool repairs long into the future. However, it wouldn't be hard to produce certain parts in mass to make them available to the public. I see no reason to have the MFS joiners as "spare parts", there may be one, I don't know.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 10:55 AM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2008, 10:44 AM »
                 The MFS for cutting applications.  
 
  Jerry Work in his manual shows how he uses the MFS as a fence for the MFT and as story sticks to place guide rails for cutting or routing. In this section I'll show how I have taken Jerry's techniques and adapted them to my own work.


Using a MFS profile as a story stick is an easy way to accurately place Festool's guide rails. I use one of the angle stops with a profile to set razor blades to act as stops for the rail, John Lucas' idea. Install the angle stop in the profile, with the scale up, using the scale I set the square on the measurement I want. Then butt the stop up to the square and tighten the bolts.


With the profile lined up with the edge of the work piece and the stop butted to the end I have a perfect story stick to help place the rail.


Now it's as simple as sticking a razor blade in the work piece at the end of the profile.


Registering the rubber edge of the guide rail off the blades will give me the exact location I want to cut this piece to.


Be sure to remove the razor blades before you make the cut. Use this technique any time you need to make multiple cuts the same size, works just as well with short or long rails.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:27 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2008, 10:53 AM »

An often asked question here is "How do I make narrow rips with the Festool plunge cut saw and guide rail?" Using the MFS 400 with my MFT is what I've found to be the easiest, fastest, safest and most accurate. In this picture you see the setup I use. Note the wooden fence extension (green arrow), this prevents the rip from being thrown forward if it gets caught in the blade. For the rest of the set up, the MFS is butted up to the MFT's fence, acting as stop to set the width of the rip. The stock is then placed against the fence and the MFS, clamped and ripped.


Step one in the setup is to assemble the profiles with the scales on the outside and checking to make sure the setup is square. Now, I slide it under the guide rail and set the edge to be even with the rubber splinter guard on the rail.


One of the things that makes this technique so fast and easy is using the scale on the MFS to set the width of the rip. With the MFS lined up with the rail make a pencil mark at the profile's zero point (end of the profile). With this mark I'll be able to use the scale, in reverse, to set the width of the rip.


In this picture you see the MFS set to make a 10 mm rip.


The MFS has to be clamped in place to prevent it from moving during the cut, I also clamp the stock to be extra safe.


Then it's like any other cut, drop the rail, plunge the saw and cut.


Here are a few 10 mm rips. When I want to make Imperial widths I use a small combination square. I set it to the size I need, then place it against the rubber edge with the blade of the square under the rail. Butt the MFS to the suqare's blade and clamp the MFS.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell




« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:28 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Jerry Work

  • Posts: 307
    • The Dovetail Joint
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2008, 12:14 PM »
Hi all,

For those of you who want to produce .pdf files of threads such as Brice's excellent discussion here, AND you use the MAC OSX operating system, it is easy.  Just do file>print from Safari while the thread you want is displayed, then click on the pdf button at the lower left of the print options screen and select "save as pdf".  Name the file, select the proper folder where you want it stored and you will have your .pdf version created for you. The convert to pdf function is built into the print function on recent versions of the Mac OSX operating system.  In the case of this thread the created .pdf is 2.1mb in size.  Hope this helps.

Jerry
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted by Jerry Work
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR. 
26 mi SW of Grants Pass on US 199, The Redwood Highway
Visitors always welcome!
http://jerrywork.com
glwork@mac.com

Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2008, 02:29 PM »
Thanks Brice, and thanks Jerry.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2008, 02:35 PM »
For the window guys:

You can download a free software called PRIMO

This software will install a printer definition in your system printers (window operating system).
When you want to convert into pdf use the print option of any software (mozilla, Internet explorer, word, notepad, etc.) and select the printer name PRIMO.

Then the printout instead of going to a physical printer it will create a pdf file.  You may choose any location destination for the file.

It has a good feature where you can append to the file.  Let's say you have to different source files and you want to create a unique pdf file.
 
It will allow you to print the first file to a pdf file and then the second source file you can select the append option and it will "append" to the pdf file.

It is very simple and never fails.

Have Fun!!
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3626
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2008, 04:10 PM »
For Mac OSX users it is even easier.  Just go to the index and click and drag to desk top
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Tinker

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2008, 04:16 PM »
I have been trying to make comment on this thread for two weeks.  I just found a way, but it is impossible for me to read, either as I type or as a preview.
I just want to say how much I appreciate all the work Brice has put into this subject.  A great job.

I have no way to check my typing or any of the content until I try to post

This is crazy and only happens with a few threads
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline poto

  • Posts: 408
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2008, 11:34 PM »
Hi Brice,

Thanks for the great post on the MFS - it does far more than I ever imagined.

I'm curious - when you cut the strips from the board that's clamped and flush to the MFS, do you ever have problems with the saw blade jamming? I've had problems when I try to saw through stock clamped on the right of the blade...

Offline alg

  • Posts: 81
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2008, 01:26 AM »
What is the smallest circle diameter that the MFS400 can do? I see it can do very large circles, trying to see how well it would work compared to using a Jasper jig for small speaker driver cutouts (tweeter, mid-range, woofers less than 7 inches).  I was able to get the Jasper Model 200 to work with the OF 1400EQ using two longer screws.

Excellent job Brice. You have a knack for teaching.
Seattle, WA. USA.

Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2008, 01:53 AM »
At some point you'd be far better off with a hole saw.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3626
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2008, 03:53 AM »
[When I clamp pieces on the right side of blade, I only use the clamps, not the clamping elements.  If you use a scrap to hold the wood the way Brice shows in front of the blade, the combination of clamp and the piece in front prevents any movement.

Tinkerquote author=poto link=topic=2275.msg24330#msg24330 date=1200976484]
Hi Brice,

Thanks for the great post on the MFS - it does far more than I ever imagined.

I'm curious - when you cut the strips from the board that's clamped and flush to the MFS, do you ever have problems with the saw blade jamming? I've had problems when I try to saw through stock clamped on the right of the blade...
[/quote]
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2008, 09:07 AM »
  Poto, I've not had any trouble clamping on the right side of the cut. As Tinker points out the key is to prevent the stock from moving, with the wooden fence extension and clamp, it does just that. You could post on the Dumb and Dangerous thread in the how to section, it is about cutting problems and dangers. Explain you setup and we can see if anything you are is is at fault.

  Alg, the smallest diameter circle you can cut with the MFS is around 3"-3 1/4". Hole saws as Eli posted or if you need a cleaner cut than a hole saw will produce, a router with small circle templates could be used.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3626
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2008, 10:09 AM »
I cut a hole at 2-3/4" by setting the MFS upside down with the piece I was cutting hole in on top and turning the piece around the MFS.  I think I could have gone even smaller that way.  I liked doing it that way as there was no cleaning up of the cut after routing the hole
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

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Offline Tinker

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2008, 10:12 AM »
BTW, I did this before I got to Brice's pictorial.  I don't know as I would do it that way again, but somehow, it worked.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2008, 01:00 PM »
                 Using the MFS as clamping aids. 
  Using the MFS for squaring glue ups is one more great way to eliminate more fixtures form the shop. The MFT by itself is very useful to for clamping, add the MFS profiles and your clamping options are greatly increased. With the MFS flexibility there is no need to build your own wooden squaring jigs and fixtures to fit different projects.


The MFS profiles offer a lot of options for different configurations, the one shown here what I use most often for clamping face frames. Once the profiles are clamped to the MFT they provide a sturdy squaring fixture.


Clamps can be added almost any place needed to square the frame.


Both the MFS 400 and 700 sets were used in the configuration shown above. A much simpler version for smaller projects can be made from the MFS 400 set. The profiles are clamped against the MFT fence, making a perfect right angle clamping jig, as seen in this picture.


Squaring is not the only way to use the MFS to aid in clamping, I've used my profiles as cauls. With clamps from below the MFT the profiles can be clamped, pressing the stock down onto the bars of the parallel clamps, giving me flat glue ups.

  The profiles can be quickly put together to make a custom clamping jig and when the glue dries, take them apart for the next project.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell

« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:28 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Rob McGilp

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2008, 02:22 PM »
Hi Brice,
Your tutorial cotinues to amaze!
I am now the owner of a MFS400, but don't have a MFT, so I'll be using it on my work bench. I am wondering if putting some of the adhesive strip used along the edge of the guide rails would be useful on the bottom of the 400 to give added stability to the frame while working?

Regards,

Rob

Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2008, 02:27 PM »
It will affect your depth, that's the only caveat I'd offer.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2008, 03:33 PM »
  Rob, I assume you mean the same adhesive strip used on the bottom of the guide rails to add grip. I'd try two sided tape each time you are having trouble clamping it. I really make use of the angles stops to aid in clamping. Check out this picture, you can just see the clamp handle sticking out from under the MFS. I have the clamp on the angle stop under the MFS and around the work piece holding everything in place. I'd recommend getting a MFT, or making your own table top with the 20 mm hole to clamp the MFS down. This will help you get the most out of the tool. Good luck and I think you will really enjoy the MFS.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2008, 10:16 AM »
                      Miscellaneous uses for the MFS. 
 
  Finding creative solutions to the everyday problems that affect productivity or enjoyment of our work is the key to successful projects. I use the MFS not just as a routing template or as cutting and clamping aids, but to make any task easier, faster. Its a problem solver.


I've used the MFS to index my Domino to cut mortises in the middle of panels. I set the angle stops to square the profiles to the edge of the work piece so the zero point is right on the edge. This will let me use the scale on the profiles to index the Domino.


I set the MFS to the location on the panel where the mortises will be cut and clamp in down.


With the base of the Domino against the MFS profile, I can cut all of the mortises in a perfectly straight line, at a right angle to edge of the work piece. Using the center line on the Domino's base and the scale on the MFS, the mortises can be cut quickly and accurately. I would normally use the backside of the guide rail on the MFT for this, but when I'm on a jobsite without my MFT this really comes in handy.


I've struggled to find a good way to use the 42" LR32 rail on stock longer than the rail itself. No problem, install a guide rail connector to join a MFS profile to the rail and clamp the profile to the edge of the stock. Now drill your holes.


Stock eight feet long posed an even bigger challenge. Using the same technique and the circle cutting pivots to re-indexing the rail you can drill holes in a full shoot of plywood. You are going to have to wait until I write my LR32 Hole Drilling user's guide of more details.


How about a jig to cut toe kicks for cabinets. One edge of the saw's base rides against the profile and the second profile acts as a stop for the cut. The first picture shows the setup, the angles stop are on on both the top and bottom of the profiles to index the jig. Second photo, I'm holding the jig and making the first cut. Third, I've flipped over and turned the jig 90 degrees to make the second cut. Fourth, the finished toe kick. I can make the cuts in less time it would have taken to do the layout, its easy, fast and, you guessed it, accurate.

  Again, the MFS flexibility is shown here. Finding different uses, both within the Festool system and out, for the MFS is only as far away as your imagination.

Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell

 


 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:29 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Dave Ronyak

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  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2008, 10:55 PM »
Brice,

Thanks for your excellent, comprehensive tutorial on uses of the MFS.  I hope when you get to your tutorial on the hole drilling jig that you will come back to added functions through combining it with the MFS.  I don't own an MFS (yet) and recently had to drill 5 rows of holes in each side of a 7' tall storage cabinet to match the five 5 mm holes in the HD slides I intended to install, using a short LR 32 and a 1400 router.  (I couldn't use the side stops to set some of those rows because the distance was too far from an edge.)   To extend its length and maintain the needed accuracy, I used non-holed Festool guide rails and connectors, and used the router jig and bit ro register the holes when I had to shift the position of the jig.  I suspect the MFS could make it faster and easier to line up the LR 32 after shifting its position.

Slick idea regarding cutting out toekicks!!

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2008, 11:09 PM »
Thanks Brice. Excellent article.

We have to make sure it gets (it's rightful) place in the reference library.

Maybe stuff like this should have a link in each post of yours to a separate comment thread so it's ready for output when it's complete.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Tinker

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2008, 03:46 AM »
I agree about a seperate area for Brice's how too's.  I don't think the replies and other comments need to be sperated tho.  There have been some valuable input thru the questions and answeres along theway.

BTW:  I mentioned in previous post that I had simply dragged this thread onto my desktop.  Since I did that, I do not have to even come on line to keep up with the discussion.
Sorry if a lot more mistooks than usual as I still cannot read what I am typing for this thread.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Jim Marsh

  • Posts: 29
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2008, 08:32 PM »
Terrific thread Brice. Very helpful as well as insightful. You always help inspire my imagination. I wish I would have thought of using the MFS with the LR32 for a board longer than 42 inches recently. I did find another solution which works.

Thanks again.

Offline Dan Clark

  • Posts: 545
    • talkFestool
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2008, 12:48 AM »
Brice,

This thread is excellent.  You are showing us how to use the MFS in new and innovative ways, and describing the true value of this tool (tool, not accessory).   But more importantly...

This tutorial  brings us up close and personal with the DETAILS of the MFS.   Your unique combination of pictures, drawings, animated gifs, video, and clear descriptive text takes us "inside" the MFS.   We see it not just a some lumps of metal, but as a very flexible solution for lots of problems.   Subtle details now have value.  Odd bits and pieces now make sense.   

IMO, this easily ranks in the top 10 threads on FOG.   With this incredible, in-depth tutorial (it's not just a review), I believe you have joined the ranks of senior Festoolians like Jerry Work and John Lucas. 

And, while you may be an excellent professional finish carpenter and woodworker, I believe your true talent lies in teaching.  Pardon the pun, but you clear away the FOG.   You take the complex and make it relatively simple.   You take the obtuse, and make it clear and understandable.  You have the unique capacity to explain things very well.

Thank you, teacher!   

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 12:50 AM by Dan Clark »

Offline Timmy C

  • Posts: 462
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2008, 09:58 AM »
Brice, what a great contribution to a very under-rated Festool accessory!  Thanks for the post...it's great.

Timmy

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #73 on: January 25, 2008, 10:44 AM »
                      Closing thoughts. 
 
  As I've touch on already, this review of the MFS system has a recurring theme, Easy, Fast and Accurate. Add to those attributes a great deal of flexibility of the system and the value of the MFS becomes very apparent Let my give you one example of why the MFS is so valuable to my work. I get jobs a few times a year where homeowners want to upgrade their old, hollow core doors to a much nicer, solid cord doors. This means routing for hinges and other hardware in the new door blanks, jigs or templates are needed to quickly and accurately do the job. In the past I would have to spend time making all of the different jigs. I could need the table saw, chop saw, jig saw, compressor/brad nailer and the stock to built the jigs. With the MFS I only spend a few minutes setting up the template to rout the hinges, when finished with all of the hinges, I readjust it for the next piece of hardware. I've tried other adjustable routing jigs, some I've liked and some I wouldn't even use again to scrape chewing gum off the sidewalk. But of the most part, they were not the right tool for the job. Now, I only keep the MFS on the truck. It's so easy to use I can hand the job off to one of my guys so I can turn my attention elsewhere. Being able to get in and out of a job quickly and not having to come back because of poor quality work is how I make my work profitable. The MFS is a real help in this regard. You don't need to be a finish carpenter to realize the same time savings and ease of use that I've found with the MFS.


  To take full advantage of the flexibility of the MFS system I'd recommend both the MFS 400 and 700 sets. I found I tend to use the smaller 400 set for most of my template routing, but the larger 700 set for cutting and clamping applications. If your budget doesn't allow for both, take a close look at your particular needs and decide which set best suits them. You can always add another set and/or the longer 1000 or 2000 mm profiles later as your needs grow.


  The flexibility the MFS is it's single greatest attribute. Routing template, cutting, routing and clamping aid all in one, normally I don't buy into a tool that claims to do it all. You know the saying, "jack of all trades, master of none", however, that is not the case with the MFS. I does all of these things equally well and all of them very well. In true Festool fashion, the MFS meshes perfectly with the entire "Festool System".

   I've not yet reached the limits of what the MFS has to offer, that's part of what I like so much about Festool products. It's what I call "built in value". It may be unseen at first, but the solution to a problem or a new easier, faster and more accurate way to do the everyday jobs we do for a living or for pure enjoyment. Good luck and I hope you enjoy using the MFS system as much as I do.
 
Text, graphics and pictures, copyright 2008, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:31 PM by Brice Burrell »
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Offline Ned

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #74 on: January 25, 2008, 10:56 AM »
Please tell us about the arrangement shown in PIC_0756sm.JPG, the last pic in the post immediately above this one.

I agree with Dan, you're definitely in the top rank of Festool investigators and communicators.

Ned

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #75 on: January 25, 2008, 11:33 AM »
  I'd like to thank everyone for the kind words and for sticking it out all the way through my rambling. This started out as a tool review, sort of turned into a user's guide. I thought a few paragraphs and maybe a dozen pictures, I guess I got a little carried away, over 100 pictures and 14 pages (on my site). Some tools inspire the user to be creative, this is one of those tools.  I didn't see that at first, because I wasn't looking, but after really taking a good look at Jerry's manual it all sort of clicked for me. As I used the MFS I started thinking, more people need to know about how this tool has to offer!

  I'd like to thank a few people, first, goes to Mr. Jerry Work, his manuals are the foundation that we all built our Festool knowledge on. I had the luxury of his MFS manual as a starting point, also, Ned Young and John Lucas, thank you. Also to Noel N., he's working on the PDF (and thanks to all of you that have offered to work on the PDF). I'll let everyone know where to download the PDF when it is ready, you will likely find it in the FOG gallery.

  I'm not sure what is next, some of the long term goals are a LR32 user's guide and a "how to" on assembling the boom arm . I have a ton of ideas, unfortunately not enough time to work on all of them.
  
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #76 on: January 25, 2008, 11:35 AM »
  Ned that is a setup I used to help with pocket screw installation, I had my Kreg plate clamp on another job, the MFS was used to hold everything in place.
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Offline ccmviking

  • Posts: 411
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #77 on: January 25, 2008, 09:40 PM »
Brice,

I'd like to see how you store yours.  I made a small shelf to hang mine on the wall assembled but I'm not real happy with it.  I don't wanna stack'em like the picture above because I don't want to mar the labeling.  Have you worked out a good storage solution, maybe something protective and portable?

Chris...

Offline JD2720

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #78 on: January 25, 2008, 10:37 PM »
Thank you Brice for the great guide.
I am looking foward to getting this in a PDF that I can print out for shop use.

Chris

Offline Dave Ronyak

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  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #79 on: January 25, 2008, 10:53 PM »
Would bubble wrap do the job, or the thinner white, opague plastic protective sheet material?  I single layer of Bubble Wrap allows you to see what is inside.  I store my spray gun this way.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #80 on: January 25, 2008, 11:12 PM »
Brice,

I'd like to see how you store yours.  I made a small shelf to hang mine on the wall assembled but I'm not real happy with it.  I don't wanna stack'em like the picture above because I don't want to mar the labeling.  Have you worked out a good storage solution, maybe something protective and portable?

Chris...

  Chris, I store my 400 set in a small bag with cardboard in between the profiles, it works ok but a setup would be nice. Ned's idea of hanging the joined profiles on a nail in the shop would be the easiest thing.
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Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #81 on: January 26, 2008, 02:25 AM »
My 400 and acc's are in an anvil briefcase. The 1m rails are in original cardboard reinforced w/ duct tape.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 793
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #82 on: January 26, 2008, 08:42 PM »
I've just created a single pdf of Brice's review and emailed it to him.   I can upload to the forum if Brice approves of it.

Fred
Fred

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #83 on: January 26, 2008, 09:12 PM »
Matthew has added a PDF version of this, well, I guess its a user's guide, to the FOG gallery MFS user's guide PDF.

  I'd like to thank Noel Nyman for creating the PDF and Ned Young for his editing work. And thanks to all of you guys that offered to help out with the PDF.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline bruegf

  • Posts: 793
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #84 on: January 26, 2008, 09:26 PM »
FYI - the one I created also includes the staircase and jack miter pages from your website instead of just a link to those pages.   However, it doesn't include a table of contents like the one already uploaded to the forum, but it would only take a few minutes to add.

Great job by the way!  After reading this, I'm definitely planning to pick up one these sometime soon.

Fred
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 09:37 PM by bruegf »
Fred

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #85 on: January 26, 2008, 09:45 PM »
Brice,

In the first photo within you "CLosing Thoughts" post you show an end view of the many profiles you used.  How many MFS sets are represented in that photo?  My guess is 2 each of the MFS 400 and MFS 700.   

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #86 on: January 26, 2008, 10:00 PM »
Dave the photo is of one 400 and one 700 set stacked on top of each other.
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Offline Eli

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #87 on: January 26, 2008, 10:12 PM »
Thanks Brice. You scored a spot on the binder shelf. Two thumbs up.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #88 on: January 26, 2008, 10:18 PM »
Dave the photo is of one 400 and one 700 set stacked on top of each other.

Brice,

Thanks.  I did not realize the profiles are that wide and have that many channels in them!

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #89 on: January 26, 2008, 10:20 PM »
Thanks Brice. You scored a spot on the binder shelf. Two thumbs up.

Question is, are they two left thumbs, if so that would explain Dan's two righties.  ;D
Thanks Eli.
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Offline Brice Burrell

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  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #90 on: January 26, 2008, 10:29 PM »
Brice,

Thanks.  I did not realize the profiles are that wide and have that many channels in them!

Dave R.

Dave the profiles are 80 mm (about 3 5/32") wide, three "V" slots and one "clamp" slot in the top and the same in the bottom, with one "V" slot is edge. Total of eight "V" slots and two "clamp" slots per profile.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline CharlesWilson

  • Posts: 457
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #91 on: January 28, 2008, 11:54 AM »
So, Brice, where's my next fix going to come from? You handled this subject like a 19th century installment writer. You now obviously have a devoted following that can't wait for the next serialization. Maybe you incorporate it into something like a woodshop murder mystery. That will allow you to retain your existing readership while simultaneously attracting readers with other interests.

I can't wait,

Charles
Charles Wilson

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #92 on: January 28, 2008, 01:25 PM »
Charles, I was thinking maybe a tale of forbidden love, two sanders whose paths cross in an exotic location...........
 ;D
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3626
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #93 on: January 28, 2008, 01:30 PM »
Brice, A really great and thorough job.
Thanks to you and those who assisted with pdf files, I now have both the entire discussion AND the pdf files ready for printing into my permanant shop files. 

I cannot begin to immagine how much time you actually spent putting this all together plus the time and patience to read all questions and make such great replies. it is truly a work of art and love.
Tinker 
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1147
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2008, 01:36 PM »
...a tale of forbidden love, two sanders whose paths cross in an exotic location...........
 ;D

Do the sanders end up sharing the same pad?

 ;D

Offline Craig Earls

  • Posts: 60
    • Mechanical Daydream
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #95 on: January 28, 2008, 07:25 PM »
...a tale of forbidden love, two sanders whose paths cross in an exotic location...........
 ;D

Do the sanders end up sharing the same pad?

 ;D

No, they grate on each other too much...

Offline Dan Uhlir

  • Posts: 138
    • www.danuhlir.com
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2008, 10:32 PM »

 They found one another too abrasive...

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3626
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2008, 07:53 AM »
They couldn't keep up with the sands of time  :-\
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline brandon.nickel

  • Posts: 241
  • Currently Peoria, IL - Eventually back to CO
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #98 on: January 29, 2008, 09:44 PM »
oh, make it stop...  my head, my eyes...    ::)

 ;D
TS55, MFT1080, Domino, OF1400, LR32, RO150E, DTS400, Trion, CT33

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8417
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #99 on: January 29, 2008, 11:38 PM »
Hi,

      His name was Rubin. He was a Titan ALSO. He gave his love ,  Cristal,  a Saphire.  She thought he was Brilliant TOO. And he thought her hair was like a Platin , Vlies. :-*

     Uuuuuggghhh, I think I am making myself sick :-X


Seth

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 8417
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2008, 11:40 PM »
Hi Brice,

      Sorry for continuing the OT spiral of your incredibly well done write up on the MFS.   The again you brought this on yourself with those two sanders. :)


Seth

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2008, 05:23 PM »
Charles, I was thinking maybe a tale of forbidden love, two sanders whose paths cross in an exotic location...........
 ;D


Hmmm... are you the one who posted a video on "YouTube" some time ago showing the Festool party?

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Garry

  • Posts: 373
    • AVID
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2008, 08:57 PM »
I'd rather see the two sanders than the two vacuum hoses...


 :o















Brice, excellent review.
http://www.avidhome.com  You're only young once, but you can be immature forever!

Offline William Herrold

  • Posts: 448
  • "failure is imminent"
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #103 on: February 06, 2008, 07:31 AM »
 " it may be necessary to add the connecting hardware to both ends of some of the profiles to join different shapes. The hardware can be removed from one profile and added to another. The bolt and V nut have to be removed and the threaded insert can be taken out. The insert has an allen recess, the insert is reverse threaded, turn clockwise to remove, use a 4 mm allen key. The insert can then be screwed into the another profile, turning counter clockwise, it will self tap into the aluminum. I recommend exercising great care removing and installing the connecting hardware, it would not be hard to strip the aluminum, especially if you forget about the reverse threading."

       thanks for the heads up Brice.

      i purchased the mfs 700 kit and two extra 400s with the intention of creating an adjustable depth, tread/riser pattern for closed let-in winder stairways.  my problem isn't with the v-bolts, that is a relatively easy fix, but with the alignment pins that are pressed in.  what it came down to was the inability to use the product without modification that would probably void the warranty .  after a few calls to h.q. and a meeting with a local rep, they offered to send me a 700 with double bolts and pins, delivered in a week.  i have also ordered extra v-bolts  to install two at each of the ends i won't be often adjusting- so the unit wont rack on me when i slide it around.
      this problem will re-occur until festo offers a profile with double sided connections,  or taps out all of it's alignment pin holes and offer threaded pins for sale so the end user can install where necessary.   
      another problem will be the painted on scales.   for the money they cost, these profiles should be recessed slightly and engraved.    the same problem occurs on my fs-ks, the angles are about 30% worn off from regular wear.  since the mfs profiles don't come with a case option,  these painted on scales are temporary at best. 
       any new system is bound to have some minor bugs. my complaints about festo are very few and far between and i use their tools every day. 

   




"i'm not sure about anything, but i have alot of suspicions"- R.A.W.
 
"I don't believe anything, but I have a lot of suspicions"
 R.A.W.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
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    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #104 on: February 06, 2008, 09:54 AM »
  Spikfot, when I connected the profiles to rout for my stair strings, I found not having the indexing pins on one end was not a problem for my project. It was used only for about an hour and half, perhaps with everyday used problems could surface. I like your idea to tap the ends for threaded inserts.

  I couldn't agree more about the painted on scales. These things should be engraved! This is probably less of an issue for shop use, my 400 set stays on the truck, the everyday traveling is going to ware the paint in no time. I'd like to see Festool come up with a bag with a pocket for each rail, a simple canvas bag would do. I have fine tip "paint" marker I use to make repairs to the scales. At some point I'm going to try the Incra Precision Measuring Rules to add Imperial graduations on the bottoms of my profiles.


Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline William Herrold

  • Posts: 448
  • "failure is imminent"
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2008, 05:50 PM »
how about a magnetic scale insert that drops in place ? sort of like incra systems use.     
"I don't believe anything, but I have a lot of suspicions"
 R.A.W.

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2008, 11:31 PM »
    I couldn't agree more about the painted on scales. These things should be engraved! This is probably less of an issue for shop use, my 400 set stays on the truck, the everyday traveling is going to ware the paint in no time. I'd like to see Festool come up with a bag with a pocket for each rail, a simple canvas bag would do. I have fine tip "paint" marker I use to make repairs to the scales. At some point I'm going to try the Incra Precision Measuring Rules to add Imperial graduations on the bottoms of my profiles.

Brice,

I have one of Incra's 6" T-square style precision measuring and marking rules.  Works very well with a 0.5 mm diameter lead pencil.  Do you plan to use a metal scriber to mark Imperial graduations on your MFS profiles?

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline William Herrold

  • Posts: 448
  • "failure is imminent"
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #107 on: February 07, 2008, 05:30 AM »
   my god, you can't use a 0.5mm. metric pencil to mark an imperial incra gauge. you must order the.019 imperial pencil.
"I don't believe anything, but I have a lot of suspicions"
 R.A.W.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
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Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #108 on: February 07, 2008, 09:08 AM »
  Dave, I can't see any other way but to scratch the graduations into the aluminum. My first thought was to try the peel and stick tapes, I might look into that idea first.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1147
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #109 on: February 07, 2008, 09:31 AM »
   my god, you can't use a 0.5mm. metric pencil to mark an imperial incra gauge. you must order the.019 imperial pencil.

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Offline Steveo48

  • Posts: 305
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #110 on: February 20, 2008, 08:12 AM »


Thanks, Brice, for another excellent "manual under construction."  As others have said, You should write an entire Festool user's book......[/quote]

It's outstanding, I finally have an idea what the MFS is about.  Festool should be compensating you guys for creating these documents, especially since Festools documentation is so ...... invisible.

Your stuff here is first class, and probably indicates your craftmanship is too.  If I could I'd buy you a beer!  ;D

Steve

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #111 on: February 22, 2008, 11:10 AM »

Thanks, Brice, for another excellent "manual under construction."  As others have said, You should write an entire Festool user's book......

It's outstanding, I finally have an idea what the MFS is about.  Festool should be compensating you guys for creating these documents, especially since Festools documentation is so ...... invisible.

I agree!  With a tool like the MFS, it looks interesting but is a bit mysterious, which makes clear information really valuable.  This creates a healthy cycle: more people understand the tool, which means more people will become interested in buying it, which means more people post about it, which helps more people understand the tool...

Your stuff here is first class, and probably indicates your craftmanship is too.  If I could I'd buy you a beer!  ;D

Now that would be an interesting forum modification!

Matthew
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 11:11 AM by Matthew Schenker »
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline Dan Clark

  • Posts: 545
    • talkFestool
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #112 on: February 22, 2008, 11:41 AM »
Beer.    Someone mention brewskis!?!    Hmmm...  Maybe we could start a brewski rating for posts.   One stein for OK posts, two for very good posts and three steins for the awesome ones!    ;D

Dan.

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #113 on: February 22, 2008, 03:41 PM »
Dan,
Actually, there is a feature in SMF that allows members to vote on the helpfulness of other members.  The more of these votes you get, the higher your rating goes.  It's called "karma" by default, but we can label it anything we want (we could call it the "Festoolian Level" or something like that).  Your level appears below your name on all your posts and people can vote to increase or decrease your level.

Currently, I have the feature turned off here in the main forum.

If people want to see how this feature works, I just turned it on in the test forum using the term "Festoolian Level" and a [ + ] and [ - ] for voting.  We can have people turn in their levels for beer at some point!

Matthew
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 03:47 PM by Matthew Schenker »
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #114 on: February 22, 2008, 04:01 PM »
Ummm.....How do I access the test forum please? :-[

Regards,

Rob

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #115 on: February 22, 2008, 04:18 PM »
Ummm.....How do I access the test forum please? :-[

Address: http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/TestForum/
Username: test
Password: test

Matthew
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline Rob McGilp

  • Posts: 430
  • Curmudgeon
    • Damn Fine Furniture
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #116 on: February 22, 2008, 05:44 PM »
Thank you Matthew. :)

Regards,

Rob

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #117 on: March 07, 2008, 08:52 AM »
Brice,
Just wanted to jump in here and say that I have returned this topic numerous times over the past couple of months.  I find myself not only learning from the specific ideas you posted, but also taking your ideas and dreaming up other possibilities.  It's amazing how many ideas come to mind with the MFS.

At the moment, I'm obsessing about how to take the MFS to the router table.  I'm imagining some kind of jig where the MFS is a hold-down for end-grain routs and which would allow repeat setups.  I'm thinking such a jig could also be used to rout angles by pivoting the MFS, as in the photo in post #1 of this discussion.

Also, I often use my router table as a jointer (more and more lately, actually).  But I'm wanting a longer fence.  I'm thinking there must be a way to use the MFS to create a long fence, but with two halves that could be offset for jointing operations.

Anyway, just thinking out loud here and letting you know that your post is inspiring, and the MFS really does open so many possibilities.

If anyone has other creative uses of the MFS, please post about them!

Thanks again Brice for putting such great effort into this discussion.

Matthew
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2008, 12:11 AM »
Brice,

Your excellent tutorial and that of Jerry Work have cost me again!!  I ordered a MFS 400 and router slide today, and a pair of 700 mm extrusions, if they can be separately purchased, and I don't even have a particular project in mind -- yet.  Inlaying may be the first.  Or leveling an old wooden top work bench.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1147
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2008, 11:35 AM »
...Or leveling an old wooden top work bench.

In that case, Dave, you may be interested in the only piece of the MFS system Brice hasn't mentioned yet-- the Routing Slide (492728).

Quote
The Routing Slide
The primary purpose of the routing slide is to support the router when hollowing out the center of large rectangles, for instance, a shallow tray.  This is done in a series of overlapping cuts as you move the slide from one end of the rectangle to the other.  The MFS with slide will accurately control the depth of cut, but it does not seem to be intended to precisely control the x,y movement of the router--other than constraining it within the rectangle.  There is no way to lock the OF1010 at a particular place in the slot, nor is there a pointer or markings to tell you where you are on the slide.

Both the OF1010 and OF1400 routers work with the routing slide, despite what you may have read elsewhere.  The OF1010 requires the 30mm copying ring.  The ring is a loose fit in the slot.  The ring protrudes below the slide; at the end of the slot, the ring will hit the extrusion, protecting it from the bit.

The slide is a heavy steel channel.  There's a lever clamp that attaches to the outside vertical surface of an MFS extrusion.  Tabs in the slide go into slots on the top of the extrusion to keep things at right angles.  The slide is clamped only at one end, but in normal use you shouldn't be applying forces that would deflect it.  An index pointer centered on the slide's slot lays over the graduations on the extrusion.

The maximum distance the router can be moved within the slot is approximately 625mm (a bit more than 24").  The longest cut you could make is somewhat less, affected by your bit and also the extrusions.

Thanks to the index pointer and clamp, it should be possible to do a series of parallel slots, although the loose fit of the ring in the slot would need to be compensated for.  More accurate results could be achieved with a guide rail.

4794-0
4796-1

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #120 on: March 08, 2008, 11:40 AM »
Thanks, Ned, for your description of the router slide, including some of its limitations.  If you look again in my earlier post, you'll see that I ordered one.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1147
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #121 on: March 08, 2008, 11:43 AM »
Thanks, Ned, for your description of the router slide, including some of its limitations.  If you look again in my earlier post, you'll see that I ordered one.

Dave R.

Whoops.  Oh well...(tap dancing)...at least now the other readers of this thread will know what you're talking about.

Ned

Offline Matthew Schenker

  • Posts: 2619
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #122 on: March 08, 2008, 11:43 AM »
Ned,
Thanks for posting those photos.  Over the years, I have toyed with numerous shop-made jigs for sliding a router over a surface to level it (I'm a big fan of using routers as much as possible).  The MFS/router slide combination seems like the best solution I've ever seen for leveling surfaces and even for cutting at various places in a surface for inlays and other ideas we could dream up.  I'm imagining more possibilities as I write this...

How large a surface do you think could be surfaced and handled with the MFS?

This is getting more interesting by the day!

Matthew
FOG Designer and Creator

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1147
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #123 on: March 08, 2008, 12:05 PM »
How large a surface do you think could be surfaced and handled with the MFS?

The length of the slide limits one direction to about 590mm (~23").  You might be able to get a bit more with a wide planer bit. 

The slide in the pic is mounted on an MFS 700 kit at max size, so you see that 700's are the longest rails you need parallel to the router's movement.  The other rails could be of any length-- 1m, 2m, 2m joined, doesn't matter.

With scaffolding underneath to support the MFS, the setup could handle oddly shaped things like tree stumps.

Using the idea of the router slide, but not the part itself, you could set up a rectangle as if you were using it to cut a circle, and then use it as a router slide traveling on two flat surfaces on either side of the work.  I don't know how big this would have to be before the extrusions sagged too much.  I'm guessing 1m would be fine, but 2?  Stiffening might be added.

While the 1010 would work for this, the 1400 with a 1/2"-shank planer bit would be a better choice.

For the really big stuff, the 2000/2200 would be the ticket.  I don't think the 2000 or 2200 will fit in the router slide.  Anyone know?

Ned


Offline Jerry Work

  • Posts: 307
    • The Dovetail Joint
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2008, 11:30 AM »
The routing slide is a very simple, versatile gizmo.  I usually take off the lock lever and do not engage the tabs into the MFS groves.  Instead, I let the slide be free to move across the gap while moving the router up and down over the gap.  I find that much faster if you have a large area to evacuate.  The large flat areas on the routing slide make it easy to control this way, just don't let one end fall off the MFS while routing or you can imagine the damage that would follow in addition to a very unsafe situation developing rapidly all around you.  With the routing slide locked to the top of the MFS that risk is not present so that is a good alternative while getting familiar with using it free from the MFS.

Jerry
The Dovetail Joint
Fine furniture designed and hand crafted by Jerry Work
in the 1907 former Masonic Temple building
in historic Kerby, OR. 
26 mi SW of Grants Pass on US 199, The Redwood Highway
Visitors always welcome!
http://jerrywork.com
glwork@mac.com

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #125 on: October 05, 2008, 09:23 PM »
Brice, I finally got around to reading this thread and I spent a very enjoyable and worthwhile couple of hours doing so.  Very well done indeed!

But, I am not sure that I should thank you because now an MFS is on my 'I Want this Tool and I Think that I can Justify it' list.  Most tools that I want (such as the Kapex) I can not justify so it is not easy for a tool to make the list.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Overtime

  • Posts: 265
  • Eastern Iowa USA
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #126 on: October 05, 2008, 09:57 PM »
Yea what Frank said.
 I have read the great review, and I still want it.
Same goes for the

OF - FH routing aid and the

Festool's edge routing accessories

But for now I just make more jigs for work arounds.
Patrick

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #127 on: October 06, 2008, 10:34 PM »
I am currently building an entertainment center - based somewhat on a "design as you proceed" approach.  Among the mistakes I made and had to correct was not allowing sufficient clearance for the middle section of the full extension drawer slides; the drawers were completely finished before I realized my error!  (Always buy the hardware you intend to use BEFORE you finalize the design.)  MFS 400 to the rescue!  I set up the MFS, referencing off the bottom edges of the drawers and routed into the sides of the drawers a slight groove to accept the slides.  I used my OF 1400 router with PC bushing adapter and a brass bushing from a set I purchased from Woodcraft.  To set up the width of the MFS, I simply marked the side of the drawer with a pencil and then eyeballed the point of contact of the 3/8 inch straight bit with the workpiece.  The angle brackets supplied with the MFS made it very easy to setup the MFS relative to the bottom edge of each of the drawer sides that needed to be routed.  To avoid wearing the scales on the MFS, after setting the width of the opening, I flipped the MFS and then attached the angle brackets.  Thus the router was moved over the back surfaces of the MFS.  This was my first use of my MFS; it saved me a lot of time and more cumbersome rework.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2008, 01:24 PM »
Brice, I finally got around to reading this thread and I spent a very enjoyable and worthwhile couple of hours doing so.  Very well done indeed!

But, I am not sure that I should thank you because now an MFS is on my 'I Want this Tool and I Think that I can Justify it' list.  Most tools that I want (such as the Kapex) I can not justify so it is not easy for a tool to make the list.
Well I was lucky!  ;D Festool USA sent me a MFS/700 as the prize for "winning" the September contest.  It arrived two days ago and I am about to try it out.   ;D
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2008, 09:19 PM »
Well, Frank, have you tried out your MFS 700 yet?  I think you'll like it more the more you use it.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Frank Pellow

  • Posts: 2748
  • Toronto, Ontario and Lake Pivabiska, Ontario
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #130 on: December 16, 2008, 09:40 PM »
Well, Frank, have you tried out your MFS 700 yet?  I think you'll like it more the more you use it.

Dave R.
Yes Dave, I have tried it out and I like it.

But, all I have done it to copy some of the things that  Brice showed us how to do.  I have not yet used it on a real project.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline sakurama

  • Posts: 76
    • My real work
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #131 on: August 12, 2013, 10:31 AM »
Just a bump to see if Brice might be able to update the photos on this. I just picked up one of these and I'd like to start using it for our remodel and I'm looking for as much info as I can find before I dive in.

Gregor
new york • portland • www.gregorhalenda.com

Offline Michael_Swe

  • Posts: 362
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #132 on: August 12, 2013, 03:13 PM »
Jerry Work wrote quite a paper on the MFS some years ago:
Jerry Work MFS

While looking for it I also found this:
Jerry Work MFS 2

<edit>
I'm building a Kapex fence myself. Wouldn't dream of using the MFS for fence. It's expensive and not as good as an Incra fence in my opinion.
</edit>

//Michael
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 03:16 PM by Michael_Swe »

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #133 on: August 12, 2013, 09:05 PM »
Just a bump to see if Brice might be able to update the photos on this. I just picked up one of these and I'd like to start using it for our remodel and I'm looking for as much info as I can find before I dive in.

Gregor

Here is the whole guide in PDF format, MFS users guide, Brice Burrell
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 09:08 PM by Brice Burrell »
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline fidelfs

  • Posts: 527
  • Houston, TX
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2013, 10:47 AM »
Brice,

Thanks for the pdf.  I have another post asking festool to have all the reviews converted to pdf (if the owner of the pictures agree, first of all not copyright infringement ).

This way it will be always there.

Thanks,
There is never a situation where it can't be done with the right hand tool - even though it may be a lot more work.

Offline sakurama

  • Posts: 76
    • My real work
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #135 on: August 13, 2013, 09:28 PM »
Thanks Brice and Michael. I found Jerry's first guide and am midway through it but I'm a big researcher so I like to read as much as I can before I jump in with a new tool. Looking forward to using this.

Gregor
new york • portland • www.gregorhalenda.com

Offline Gunso

  • Posts: 10
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #136 on: May 10, 2018, 05:52 PM »
Did anyone every make a PDF of this? It would be awesome to read it AND see the photos.



Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1045
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #139 on: May 11, 2018, 04:34 PM »
Nice document! I hadnt seen this before!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7337
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #140 on: May 11, 2018, 05:02 PM »
I've updated the link to the pdf file, and included it as an attachment so you can download it from directly from the FOG.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5004
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #141 on: June 02, 2018, 11:06 AM »
Brice,

Now ya got me wanting to get one of those doo hickies.  [censored]

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1869
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #142 on: June 02, 2018, 01:08 PM »
Jobsworth, Trade-Counter-Online has them on Ebay.   

Offline Roachmill

  • Posts: 54
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #143 on: June 02, 2018, 07:38 PM »
Wow. Great guide! One small thing I would add as I picked up a set of the Benchdogs fence dogs (https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/fence-dogs) with the initial idea of using them as intended for the MFT fence. After picking up some M4 knobs you can use them to secure the MFS down a whole lot easier than using clamps :)

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 297
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #144 on: June 02, 2018, 09:40 PM »
Wow. Great guide! One small thing I would add as I picked up a set of the Benchdogs fence dogs (https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/fence-dogs) with the initial idea of using them as intended for the MFT fence. After picking up some M4 knobs you can use them to secure the MFS down a whole lot easier than using clamps :)

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Great design. Does anyone sell these fence dogs in the US?

Thanks, Dick

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 108
Re: MFS 400 and MFS 700 Multi-Routing Template System.
« Reply #145 on: June 02, 2018, 11:50 PM »
How stiff are MFS rails in the orientation you show?  This looks like they could turn MFS into a track for a router sled setup.  Use these to level or true the rails and then off one goes.  Of course this would mean MFS in US, this has to be the biggest discontinuation head scratcher of Festools part, or did it simply become popular after they killed if off?

Wow. Great guide! One small thing I would add as I picked up a set of the Benchdogs fence dogs (https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/fence-dogs) with the initial idea of using them as intended for the MFT fence. After picking up some M4 knobs you can use them to secure the MFS down a whole lot easier than using clamps :)