Author Topic: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF  (Read 37535 times)

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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« on: August 18, 2010, 05:16 PM »
Hello all!!!!


 I know I kept on saying I will do a review on the MFT3- VL which I just bought recently with the MFT3 but then decided to buy the CMS basic Unit because I didnt realise how heavy the MFT3 was and how much room it takes up having the VL attached and difficult to move when set up when you need room for infeed and outfeed when using the CMS-OF router.

I have been using both and have come across some disadvantages for both and advantages for both.

I have started this topic a bit to early as I havent made many pictures or videos yet! But I have done it to get my self motivated to do it.

This Topic wont be well organised as I will take pictures and videos over a coarse of a few days when I have the time and its convenient to do so at the time while I am working

Sorry in advance.

The good thing maybe is if any one wants pictures or a video taking of a specific area I can see what I can do.

Here are my first set of pictures and Video I took recently


This is showing the a disadvantage to the MFT3-VL






When I first tried to attach the Left Ug Arm extension to the MFT3-VL I didnt bother looking underneath I just slid the knob over and tighten I then slightly knocked the left arm extension and it started to fall over. I thought I didnt tighten it enough but I soon realised its because the knob hits the bottom groove and you cant fix the arm easily to the MFT3.  


On this Picture You can see it only just lips on the MFT which doesnt really hold enough


You can see how the knob over hangs


you can see the knob hitting and wont turn any more to tighten




A Video showing the problem in action
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 05:42 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Nigel

  • Posts: 641
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 01:38 PM »
  Jmb

        I can't make out what this ug piece is.What I do know is that it has the same thunbscrew affair as the cms side extension which goes on the cms no problem.
    
       Nigel.
      

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1078
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 02:11 PM »
Why are you trying to fit them to the MFT/3?
They fit the CMS and the Kapex, where they are a useful addition, can't see the point of them on an MFT.
Or am I missing something, 'cos I do that with surprising ease sometimes. [unsure]
Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline paul_david_thomas

  • Posts: 281
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 02:13 PM »
I think the chap is trying to ask the question why are parts not interchangeable within the different components - which is a fair question to ask. I'm always wanting a little more space on MFT/3, I just bought another. Then for a little more space I use my CMS.

TS55, MFT/3x2, Domino, CMS, C12, RO150, RTS400, Kapex 120, CTL26, OF1400 & Two German Wirehaired Pointers :-) They really help !

Offline Nigel

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 03:17 PM »

       
     What happens when you want to cut a long panel on the mft?Do you have take out the saw module or take the router fence off?
           

Offline paul_david_thomas

  • Posts: 281
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 02:44 AM »
Nigel,

Oooo... good point... Not thought of that !!

If I were attaching this thing, I'd just see it as some extra space to put stuff...

But if you were to use it whilst cutting longways... Use an Alu blade :-)
TS55, MFT/3x2, Domino, CMS, C12, RO150, RTS400, Kapex 120, CTL26, OF1400 & Two German Wirehaired Pointers :-) They really help !

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 07:26 AM »
Why are you trying to fit them to the MFT/3?
They fit the CMS and the Kapex, where they are a useful addition, can't see the point of them on an MFT.
Or am I missing something, 'cos I do that with surprising ease sometimes. [unsure]
Rob.


The MFT3  and the MFT3/VL  have the same V groove and box groove around them.  So if you was to use the Arm exenstions on the MFT3/VL cms you would get the same problem I showed above.

I just demotrated it on my MFT3  instread of my VL  but I can do a picture with the VL if you want.

Picture of the CMS VL and CMS basic unit you can see  why you still have the same problem with the VL and no problem with the Basic Unit!

















Any way answering you question even more.

Its handy to be able to attach the Arms to your MFT3  because is allows you to cut longer sheets with more support.   Also While using you MFT3/VL CMS-OF you want support for in Feed and out but like showed above the Ug-Arm extension don't attach very well to these.    With the Kapex and the Basic CMS unit you have no problems at all because they only have a V groove.


Here is a picture of the ARM attached to the MFT3-VL

25227-2



EDITED:

Better pictures






JMB
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 10:18 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2010, 09:43 AM »
Just some pictures of my onsite workshop at the moment!



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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2010, 09:49 AM »
Disadvantage of the Basic UNIT CMS  over the VL


You can see the CMS OF fence is longer than the Basic CMS unit and this then gets in the way of the UG arm extension because of the raised back.

With the MFT3/VL the CMS OF fence doesnt stick out because the MFT/VL is much wider.










As you can see the MFT3/VL is wider so the fence doesnt hit the arm extension











« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 09:56 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2010, 10:03 AM »
As mentioned on another topic! The Basic unit has a a place or many places (6 I think) to place the turning wheel.   I havent found any where on the MFT3/VL yet where you can store it.












EDITED:

OH I forgot to mention and take a picture of it aswell but it also has some where to put your push stick as the VL has not


JMB
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 10:20 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 10:07 AM »
 Jmb

        I can't make out what this ug piece is.What I do know is that it has the same thunbscrew affair as the cms side extension which goes on the cms no problem.
    
       Nigel.
      

THE CMS side exenstion dont you tighten it from above?!?!?!
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2010, 10:12 AM »
advantage of the MFT3/VL is you have more support   than the Basic Unit CMS



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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2010, 10:39 AM »
Just a Video showing the Advantage of the Basic UNIT.

The basic unit is a lot lighter and easily movable when needed!

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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2010, 11:16 AM »
Just a Video and pics showing the CMS OF and OF2200 in use!


It brilliant!  I love it!   The dust extraction is brilliant. You definitely need the Y splitter using the large and small hose. I got the Y hose Package for 60GBP which included the Y spliter and a short Large hose and a slightly longer small hose.    I tried it with no dust extraction and you can not use it with out it fills with dust straight away






« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 11:20 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Nigel

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2010, 11:30 AM »
 Jmb

        I can't make out what this ug piece is.What I do know is that it has the same thunbscrew affair as the cms side extension which goes on the cms no problem.
    
       Nigel.
      

THE CMS side exenstion dont you tighten it from above?!?!?!

       No, it's excactly the same as those UG Kapex jobbies but as the base unit doesn't have the extra profile  the thumbscrew doesn't catch it.Glad I didn't get the VL [smile]

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2010, 11:33 AM »
 Jmb

        I can't make out what this ug piece is.What I do know is that it has the same thunbscrew affair as the cms side extension which goes on the cms no problem.
    
       Nigel.
      

THE CMS side exenstion dont you tighten it from above?!?!?!

       No, it's excactly the same as those UG Kapex jobbies but as the base unit doesn't have the extra profile  the thumbscrew doesn't catch it.Glad I didn't get the VL [smile]


I could say glad I got both   [huh]



JMB
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Offline Nigel

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2010, 12:28 PM »
     
    Yeah,both's good ,you can have the saw in one the router in the other no hassle swappin modules!  [cool] But you need another for the jigsaw [eek]

Offline James Metcalf

  • Posts: 208
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2010, 01:15 PM »
Thanks for taking time to do a great write up. Also good pictures. All first rate information.

Offline Rob-GB

  • Posts: 1078
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2010, 01:31 PM »
Why are you trying to fit them to the MFT/3?
They fit the CMS and the Kapex, where they are a useful addition, can't see the point of them on an MFT.
Or am I missing something, 'cos I do that with surprising ease sometimes. [unsure]
Rob.


The MFT3  and the MFT3/VL  have the same V groove and box groove around them.  So if you was to use the Arm exenstions on the MFT3/VL cms you would get the same problem I showed above.


I just demotrated it on my MFT3  instread of my VL  but I can do a picture with the VL if you want.

JMB

JMB, I was unaware that the profile around the CMS and MFT/VL were so different, had you done the demo pics on the VL, I would have understood from the get go.
It certainly looks like the design team dropped the ball on this one. [eek]
No offence was intended in my earlier post, just an enquiry [bite tongue]
Rob.
Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ

"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2010, 02:14 PM »
     
    Yeah,both's good ,you can have the saw in one the router in the other no hassle swappin modules!  [cool] But you need another for the jigsaw [eek]


LoL  I think I have spend enough lol!   Any way they dont do one for the Carvex yet


JMB
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2010, 02:24 PM »
Why are you trying to fit them to the MFT/3?
They fit the CMS and the Kapex, where they are a useful addition, can't see the point of them on an MFT.
Or am I missing something, 'cos I do that with surprising ease sometimes. [unsure]
Rob.


The MFT3  and the MFT3/VL  have the same V groove and box groove around them.  So if you was to use the Arm exenstions on the MFT3/VL cms you would get the same problem I showed above.


I just demotrated it on my MFT3  instread of my VL  but I can do a picture with the VL if you want.

JMB

JMB, I was unaware that the profile around the CMS and MFT/VL were so different, had you done the demo pics on the VL, I would have understood from the get go.
It certainly looks like the design team dropped the ball on this one. [eek]
No offence was intended in my earlier post, just an enquiry [bite tongue]
Rob.



No offence was taken mate.   I think I did do the demo pics on the VL thinkin about it you know  if you look at the picture you can see the MFT table in the back ground. Also if you look at the first picture to your reply you can see the layout is different and the room not painted. You can see the VL is attached at the front of the MFT.  So I did do it on the VL.   Sorry I forgot! I have spray painted upstairs and then moved everything back into the rooms and laid it out differently..


But you did say you couldnt understand why you would attach it to the MFT but can you see now their is a benefit being attached.  If you dont want to carry 2 MFT tables  instead you just have 1 MFT and one arm extension you can support material just as big.

JMB
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2010, 02:57 PM »
Thanks for taking time to do a great write up. Also good pictures. All first rate information.


Sorry would of said Thank you sooner I must of scrolled past your post by accident. Also sorry its a bit messy Im not that good at reviews myself I just do pictures not really thinking to much about it then look at them and think I could use this picture and say something about it and stuff lol So sorry this topic is abit messy I did say it at the start though  [tongue]

Any way thanks.   [big grin]


Got some more pictures and videos just getting the time to do it.  [huh]


JMB

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Offline Corwin

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2010, 03:27 PM »
I agree that Festool missed the mark by not making these different pieces all work together like a "system."  Wasn't the reason for changing the MFT profiles (MFT-1080 to MFT/3) to make all these things compatible? 

One area of confusion for me here is that you show how the Arm doesn't attach with either the MFT/3 or the MFT/VL because the knob interferes with the lower portion of the profile -- yet, you do show the Arm attached to both in latter photos.  So, I take it that they do attach.  Did you replace the knob to make these work?

From your posts above, one would conclude that the Arm is really made to fit the CMS, yet the fence on the CMS-OF isn't compatible with the Arm.  On the other hand, the Arm is compatible with the fence for the OF module when installed into the MFT/VL, but the Arm doesn't attach (well) to the MFT/VL or MFT/3. 

Is that about right?  If so, one would have to wonder just what were they thinking???
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2010, 03:31 PM »
lol yip you right I think lol


Yeah it does attach if you look at the pictures it just lips on enought doesnt it??!?  but its only just.  and you have to really tighten the knob tight to make sure it stayed and its then difficult to loosen the knob.  Unlike the Basic unit you can easily attach it and just a slight turn is enough.


JMB
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2010, 03:37 PM »
I think a solution to the problem could be!   ( just quickly took the picture and video and have not even looked properly if it would work just a thought)

Using this (which is what comes with the MFS carriage)
  
Because it is spring loaded so you lift it up and turn it with out tightening or loosening so you can tighten so much and lift and turn to further tighten.
I am going to see if it works and then order some as spare parts and change my left and right UG arm extensions.


25279-0
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 03:43 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2010, 04:04 PM »
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Offline James Metcalf

  • Posts: 208
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2010, 04:06 PM »
When the VS600 first came out the knob on the right side was to large a diameter. The router base would hit it. Festool sent me a knob with same thread size and smaller diameter knob part. Looks like the ratchet or spring loaded knob might be a better fix.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2010, 05:47 PM »
Looking at your pump on talkfestool you have the same type of ratchet/spring loaded leaver but its larger that might work. The one I showed above is smaller I think and the thread is to small I think not checked yet but dont think it will replace the knob.

JMB
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Offline Corwin

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Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2010, 06:36 PM »
As to the fence for the CMS-OF being too long to fit the Arm onto the CMS and have the two line up correctly, I wonder if you could purchase the Table Widener for the Kapex  (or Crown Moulding Stop assembly - AB-KS 120) and mount it between the two.



Could this part correct the issue with your CMS and the fence for the CMS-OF?  And, possibly even work to connect the Arm to the MFT/3 and MFT/VL?
Looks like your rabbit joint is a hare off! ;)

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2010, 06:50 PM »
As to the fence for the CMS-OF being too long to fit the Arm onto the CMS and have the two line up correctly, I wonder if you could purchase the Table Widener for the Kapex  (or Crown Moulding Stop assembly - AB-KS 120) and mount it between the two.



Could this part correct the issue with your CMS and the fence for the CMS-OF?  And, possibly even work to connect the Arm to the MFT/3 and MFT/VL?


No sorry you cant wont work. 

If you was using the OLD kapex SET  then yes that would work but I dont know how it works with the height though  but the NEW UG-Kapex  left and right Arm extensions which are shown in the pictures will not work because they need the V groove as well to attach. 

JMB
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