Author Topic: Returned dts400.  (Read 9433 times)

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Offline Nigel M

  • Posts: 99
Returned dts400.
« on: April 07, 2015, 11:27 PM »
I just returned my first festool.
Bought a dts 400 to sand the interior panel corners on any raised panel millwork. Eg. Shaker doors;
What I didnt like was as follows:
The curved back two corners on the singing pad make the triangle into cn obtuse angle. So I was only able to get in tight tight with the front point of the sander. Once the point of the sandpaper wears out your done...need a new sheet and have only just used the tip of it.
I realize the sander has many more applications than this but for me it wasnt worth it.
I have a ro150 and a ets150. My next sander will be a mirka deros.
I may buy the dts400 again in the future but probably not.
In its defence it was really neat how it sucked itself yo the workpiece even with the vac turned all the way down, but not enough to justify 325.00.
I returned it to LV and walked out with a couple snappy new black and gold midi sys's snd 170$ in my pocket.
Ts55, Ct36, of1400,Domino xl700, Trion ps300, Abrasives Sys2, various guides,rails 1 1400, 2 1400 holy, 2 connector sets, ETS 150(3),compact cleaning set,
Sys 1 toolbox(for router bits),Sys storage systainer (2),lr32 kit, sys4 tool box(holds veritas mk11 sharpening system),mft/3,Rotex 150,Tanos sys2/with attic,sys2 with fein tool insert,sys midi2(2)sys midi3,csx installer kit, rts 400, conturo edge bander, edge trimming kit, mfk700

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Offline Northern Early

  • Posts: 54
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2015, 12:17 AM »
I started with an RO150 and picked up the dts a few months ago. Imo I like it. When it was new I tried to use it like the Rotex which is a mistake. I rarely take my Rotex out of dual action mode. Once I softened up on it, it does what I want.  Agreed on the corners wearing out. I suppose I just learned to move it around more. I can see how it didn't work, for me it does what I need.

And the suction thing is crazy with this little guy.

I have been eyeing a few mirkas

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7335
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2015, 12:17 PM »
.....What I didnt like was as follows:
The curved back two corners on the singing pad make the triangle into cn obtuse angle. So I was only able to get in tight tight with the front point of the sander. Once the point of the sandpaper wears out your done...need a new sheet and have only just used the tip of it......

Agreed, this is the achilles heel of the DTS.  It gets worse, not only does the the tip of the sandpaper wear out fast, so does the velcro on the tip of the sanding pad.  Once the velcro is done the sandpaper on the tip has little chance.  You need to exercise care with the DTS, too much for me to use it over the RO90.

It's funny the two above replies both mention suction.  I can't help but feel the newer generation vacs have too much suction for the small sanders.  I've found this to be a bigger issue on drywall than wood, but I'd still like to see the Festool bleeder valve offer here in N. America.   
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 582
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2015, 12:22 PM »
I'm sure you realized this but you can turn the sandpaper to use all 3 corners. I do agree with you that the corners wear out first but there's not really another sander to get into those kind of places so it's angive and take for me.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7335
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2015, 12:35 PM »
I'm sure you realized this but you can turn the sandpaper to use all 3 corners. I do agree with you that the corners wear out first but there's not really another sander to get into those kind of places so it's angive and take for me.

Not on the DTS, it's not a triangle like the RO90 and DX93. 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline John_

  • Posts: 159
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2015, 01:04 PM »
Nigel - your spot on with your assessment

I also have the DTS 400 and found out too late the fatal flaw with the tip and the two rear corners not being square

It is still a good sander, and I don't mind using it as a backup to my Ceros but I let the KoolAid drinkers get in the way of my decision making on this one

Offline elfick

  • Posts: 489
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2015, 01:16 PM »
Nigel - your spot on with your assessment

I also have the DTS 400 and found out too late the fatal flaw with the tip and the two rear corners not being square

It is still a good sander, and I don't mind using it as a backup to my Ceros but I let the KoolAid drinkers get in the way of my decision making on this one
Isn't the Ceros a round sander? I fail to see how it would be better at getting into corners. If you aren't talking about getting into corners then uneven wear really isn't an issue.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1789
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2015, 01:55 PM »
It would seem that, no matter what detail sander you use, if it's used to sand into a corner for any significant period, the tip of the sandpaper will wear out. That's really the only part being used to sand, especially in a raised panel corner. However, what other good way is there to do that except with either a detail sander, by hand, or with a small square finish sander? With a square finish sander, the corners and edges of the paper would still wear out, although you'd have 4 sides instead of the 3.
Randy

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5668
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2015, 02:17 PM »
There's a lot more to the DTS than just a small tip. I use its big fat bottom all the time.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1789
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2015, 03:36 PM »
The use as a finish sander was the main reason I bought the DTS400 as I had heard that it was great on flat surfaces. The corner sanding was just a side task for me.
Randy

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2015, 04:11 PM »
Yup to the bellow stated.

Imop the DTS400 is a champ finish sanding 220 and above.

I start my sanding with the Rotex and take it through the grits to 180 then 220 and above and any swirl marks just evaporate.

 
The use as a finish sander was the main reason I bought the DTS400 as I had heard that it was great on flat surfaces. The corner sanding was just a side task for me.
Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline Nigel M

  • Posts: 99
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2015, 01:46 AM »
I'm sure that above 220 and beyond its a great little tool.
I was a little harsh on it I know. I should have known better. Of course that little corner was gonna wear out right away....just like any other corner sanding pad. It's not a magical "doesn't ever wear out".....I just couldn't justify it right now. I think I will probably try one again. Eg. I bet I wish I still had it in the morning when I have to detail sand a white oak railing we just completed today. Aaah....the green kool aid, so tasty.
Ts55, Ct36, of1400,Domino xl700, Trion ps300, Abrasives Sys2, various guides,rails 1 1400, 2 1400 holy, 2 connector sets, ETS 150(3),compact cleaning set,
Sys 1 toolbox(for router bits),Sys storage systainer (2),lr32 kit, sys4 tool box(holds veritas mk11 sharpening system),mft/3,Rotex 150,Tanos sys2/with attic,sys2 with fein tool insert,sys midi2(2)sys midi3,csx installer kit, rts 400, conturo edge bander, edge trimming kit, mfk700

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1789
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2015, 03:00 AM »
The DX93 is good for the corners and there are 3 corners on the pad, so 3 times longer to wear out all 3 together. However, if you go that route and have uses for the other possible tools, then the Fein MultiTool would probably be the most useful and best choice.
Randy

Offline Joseph C

  • Posts: 263
    • Integrity Design+Build
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2015, 07:48 AM »
All y'all who are complaining about the tip wearing out prematurely are either not using it correctly or looking for a different tool.
ALL sanders are meant to be used with their full pad in full contact with the surface (unless you're sculpting.)

In the case of the DTS, I find the relationship of my hand position to the pad to be more direct than using a little triangle sander like a Fein or RO90 or DX93, and thus easier to control. . .
TS75, OF1010, PS300, Domino500, MFT/3, CT22 + WCR, CT MIDI, RS2e, RO150, ETS150, DS400, RO90, Grex 2" micropinner (festool green), and packing everything else into systainers, too.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5668
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2015, 08:18 AM »
All y'all who are complaining about the tip wearing out prematurely are either not using it correctly or looking for a different tool.
ALL sanders are meant to be used with their full pad in full contact with the surface (unless you're sculpting.)

I'm not so convinced it has something to do with using it incorrectly, a sander with a tip like the DTS invites you to use it that way. I mostly use it for stripping paint from windows and door frames, and then you get into a lot of corners all over the house. Very often the wood isn't even wide enough to fit the entire pad.

The trick is to balance the load to get full use out of your sheet of sandpaper. If you have to get into a corner you use the tip, but on other spots you use the back or the sides. Or the full pad if the board is wide enough. I got my routine set up so I never have to waste any paper.

And I agree with Brice, the tip of the velcro pad does wear out a bit fast, whenever I get a new pad, after a good 5 hours of use the velcro can be toast already. That really ticked me off the first time I noticed that, but now I'm used to it and just keep on using the pad because it still works.   
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 08:39 AM by Alex »

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 952
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2015, 10:00 AM »
I love my RTS 400.  Not only is it my face frame sander, it's the sander I grab for generic tasks because it's so light.  I keep it sitting on my vac.  It gets into square corners pretty well and it has 4 identical corners on a pad.  You might want to give that one a try.

And maybe get an inexpensive mouse sander specifically for the tight corners.  My Ryobi mouse has served me well for years and years.  The Diablo hook loop paper is pretty good.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline Nigel M

  • Posts: 99
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2015, 12:46 AM »
I'll take  look at the rts400.
Did really like the light weight ergonomics of the dts.
I bet I'll buy one again one day....
Ts55, Ct36, of1400,Domino xl700, Trion ps300, Abrasives Sys2, various guides,rails 1 1400, 2 1400 holy, 2 connector sets, ETS 150(3),compact cleaning set,
Sys 1 toolbox(for router bits),Sys storage systainer (2),lr32 kit, sys4 tool box(holds veritas mk11 sharpening system),mft/3,Rotex 150,Tanos sys2/with attic,sys2 with fein tool insert,sys midi2(2)sys midi3,csx installer kit, rts 400, conturo edge bander, edge trimming kit, mfk700

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2458
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2015, 01:20 PM »
I agree with the tip of the DTS wearing out. But, it is great sanding along the edge of work and the rounded pad keeps it from skidding around. A new pad is not that expensive and I consider it a consumable. It lasts for a while. I do not have the RTS, but have thought about adding one because I too like this type of sander for face frames and edges. The RS2E is awesome, but can be too big for some of these sanding tasks. The DTS works well for this application too, but having square corners is appealing from some tasks.

Offline SS Teach

  • Posts: 285
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2015, 08:20 PM »
I have an RTS 400, and I used it for corner work. It worked great. But, it did wear out the corners of the pad. Luckily the pad was easy to replace. Pads and papers are consumables, and if you use your sanders a lot you will replace consumables.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set. Domino 500, Domino Systainer, Parallel Guide

Offline TheTrooper

  • Posts: 247
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2015, 08:57 PM »
I do a fair amount of staircases. I use the RO150, DTS 400, LS130 and the RO90 as my mains.  After reading this I may look into the RTS.  What are your thoughts in the corner of a stair tread. Would it tend to walk?
RO90, RO150, DTS 400, LS 130, CXS, TS 55 EQ, CT 36AC, OF 1400,  Parallel Guides, Kapex Miter saw,  3 MFT Kapex tables, C18

Offline Michael1960

  • Posts: 187
  • It needs a little work...
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2015, 05:17 AM »
I do a fair amount of staircases. I use the RO150, DTS 400, LS130 and the RO90 as my mains.  After reading this I may look into the RTS.  What are your thoughts in the corner of a stair tread. Would it tend to walk?
You should find the RTS a great addition to your sander line up.  It doesn't go for a walk very often!

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2183
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 04:14 PM »
Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.  Unlike the  triangle pads of the now-gone DX-93 and the current RO-90, you have to watch your tip sanding with the DTS400 since you can't rotate your abrasive or the pad. Having said that, I really prefer it to my RTS400 since it's more stable and just seems easier to work with all the time.
 I have often considered selling off my RTS since getting my DTS sander, but those 4 square corners of the RTS come in handy at times too... [big grin]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1833
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 07:24 PM »
I have found the DTS better at sanding along a recessed edge than the RTS. It seems if you slide along an edge with the pad placed in the middle of the arc on either side it is very tame and does not react to or bounce off the wall. I can never seem to get close with either the RTS or the RS2 without bumping the wall. From the way Alex described his use I suspect we use the DTS in a similar manner.
 I do agree the RTS has a much better form to minimize spot wearing of the pad but i only use it when I won't need to get close to a wall. It does also have the advatage of sharing abrasives with the Linear sander and it helps me jump the gap in my arsenal from not having any 125 size sanders.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline jonkat

  • Posts: 4
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2015, 07:06 AM »
I hope this is an appropriate thread for my question.

I am looking for a sander to get into internal corners. I mainly make fine cabinet work so quality of finish is very important to me.
I already have an RO150 for 'heavy lifting' and a RS400 for fine flat work which is simply a delight to use.

I've completely confused myself over the last week or so looking at the DX93, DTS400 and RO90 for internal corner work.

My thinking so far goes something like this, DTS ruled out because of the shape of the sanding pad and paper and because I've got my brilliant RS400 so it's only really the tip of the DTS which would get used. Next, the DX93 would probably do OK but it looks quite long in the body and so might not fit into all the spaces I'd want to get at, it's also a single purpose sander and for a little more money the RO90 will get into the corners and have other uses as well.

So, for me, so far, the RO90 wins the day, I think !

I'd really appreciate anyone setting out the flaws in my thinking please.

Also, do the RO and DX use the same sized abrasives ? Festool UK website is completely silent and they don't even enable me to compare product code numbers.

Does anyone know of an abrasive manufacturer making 150mm and/or 90mm velcro discs with the correct punching for the Rotex sanders available in the UK ?

Many thanks in advance, Jon.

Offline TheTrooper

  • Posts: 247
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2015, 07:41 AM »
Yes, the 93 and 90 share the same pad.  I think for detailed sanding the RO90 is tops.  The DTS 400 is my main for stairs and corners of floors.
RO90, RO150, DTS 400, LS 130, CXS, TS 55 EQ, CT 36AC, OF 1400,  Parallel Guides, Kapex Miter saw,  3 MFT Kapex tables, C18

Offline jonkat

  • Posts: 4
Re: Returned dts400.
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2015, 01:05 PM »
Thanks Trooper, you've confirmed my thinking !

Jon.