Author Topic: Short review of countersinks.  (Read 35503 times)

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Offline Deansocial

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2010, 04:31 PM »
Does anyone know if the Festool countersink has carbide cutters? I have been using the Snappy carbide cutter countersinks and have had very clean cuts in all materials, just no depth stop.

No centrotec stuff has any carbide cutters, but it isn't standard HSS either. You can tell by the touch and feel and sound of it that it's extremely hard metal, and every centrotec piece, be it a wood or a metal drill bit or a countersink, gives you extremely clean cuts. I've never used or seen any better stuff.


is it HCS then?

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2010, 04:48 PM »
Guy,

I have used the vix bits for years.  Here is a link:  http://www.woodcraft.com/Search/Search.aspx?query=vix

If you need some assistance with shipping, these guys should be easily shipped.  Just let me via PM if I can help you.

Peter

Offline Guy Ashley

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2010, 05:05 PM »
Peter

Thank you, the set of three I need, a good price and they take Paypal and ship to the UK.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=7427&ss=b357d284-ed48-4cc3-a718-2b79f9833aea

No more breakages I hope.

Thanks again

Guy
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Offline Alex

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2010, 06:04 PM »
Does anyone know if the Festool countersink has carbide cutters? I have been using the Snappy carbide cutter countersinks and have had very clean cuts in all materials, just no depth stop.

No centrotec stuff has any carbide cutters, but it isn't standard HSS either. You can tell by the touch and feel and sound of it that it's extremely hard metal, and every centrotec piece, be it a wood or a metal drill bit or a countersink, gives you extremely clean cuts. I've never used or seen any better stuff.


is it HCS then?

I have no idea. Festool never gives any specs. By the way, I've never even heard of HCS steel either.  [blink]

Offline RonWen

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2010, 06:05 PM »
Good information & good review.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2010, 06:15 PM »
HCS just means high carbon steel

Off the web:

The HCS steel Standards are: AISI D6 ; W nr. 1.2436 ; JIS SKD2

Elements and composition

Iron = about 83%

Carbon = 2.05%

Chromium = 12.7 %

Manganese = 0.8%

Silicon = 0.3%

Others = 1.1%

High performance tool steel with high wear resistance and toughness.

Hardness approx. HB = 240
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 06:19 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Alex

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2010, 06:27 PM »
Ah, thanks for the explanation nick. But I still don't have any idea what the magic ingredient is. But it works.

Offline justinmcf

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2010, 05:35 AM »
i just received my 5mm countersink this evening.

i look forward to using it tomorrow. i think the maximum drill depth of 28mm will be an issue with a 75mm batten screw.
i will know more tomorrow.

justin.

Offline johnb

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2010, 03:14 PM »
I have Famag countersinks which are tct and adjustable but no depth stop. I have 90 and 180 degree versions, brilliant, best quality I have used.

Offline Deansocial

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2010, 04:01 PM »
high carbon steel is harder than hss but not as hard as tungsten

Offline tdfiver

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2010, 02:51 PM »
I'd love a 3.5 or 4mm hinge centre as the 5mm is a bit big although the quality is really good..  I have lost count of the cheapo types that I've binned for either falling to bits or jamming up as they don't clear the chaff.

I have the 08 Centrtec outfit and find it very good, the drill bits are really good quality, although it could do with a few blank spaces for hinge centres and countersinks. With a bit of shuffling around its possible to store a few extra bits in there as well.

 It is really handy to take drill and Centrotec together on the job rather than run back and forth to my van for drill, screw driver bits etc. That's what I love about Festool they seem to have a system for all of their gear.

Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2010, 03:04 PM »
Rob, do you have any pictures of this store and their huge display?  Would love to check it out.  Always looking to improve.
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Offline Guy Ashley

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2010, 03:26 PM »
« Last Edit: August 13, 2010, 03:29 PM by Guy Ashley »
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Offline Sean Ackerman

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2010, 03:38 PM »
Sean

Try this link

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tool-centre--nuneaton-warwickshire-artlstorenuneaton/

Also Healey's Tools have a good display which is shown on this link

 http://www.healystool.co.uk/catalog/new_festool_shop.php

Guy

Awesome, thanks Guy!  We just redid our display yesterday.  Pretty psyched on it!  I'll try to load up pictures
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Offline Rob-GB

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2010, 04:44 AM »
Sean, I don't have photo's, sorry. In terms of floor space it is not huge, but they do have pretty much all that Festool sell in the UK on display and in stock.
They even have the large boom arm that costs several thousand GBP! (you have to look up to see it as it is fixed to the back wall and reaches out across showroom.) The layout is well thought out and there is plenty of walk space between the displays and shelving units.
I am glad I don't live as close to it as the Sittingbourne Axi' as I would end up there most Saturday's and spend too much!

Rob.
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Offline jvsteenb

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2010, 01:15 PM »
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits "feel" like a very decent quality HSS-G but don't "look" like it.
Usually HSS-G ( a very high quality HSS substrate with a substantially heightened Cobalt content ) has a slightly bronze tint that develops during the tempering process.
As the tempering process has a negligeable affect on the sizing, HSS-G tools are usually tempered after grinding, the coloration serves as a distinction from "normal" lower grade HSS steels.
It is however entirely possible to (re) grind after tempering, that would leave a standard blank steel appearance.

HSS qualities vary wildly. Even steels that show a perfectly similar composition when analysed via mass-spectography, can vary in edge retention as much as 1000(!) percent...
It's all in the grainsize and temperature control.
Good HSS rocks! Bad HSS..... not so much. HSS is developed to significantly "up" the edge retention in higher temperatures.
That USED to mean "when drilling in steel and the likes" but who hasn't trashed a CV bit losing it's temper in hardwood? Especially high-silica species like Teak and the likes ?
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits are top-notch. Edge retention is super, even when "the goin' gets tough". This leads to lower cutting temperatures, and cleaner cuts.


Regards,

Job
TS55, OF1010, RO150, RTS400, PS300, T15+3, CTL22E, CMS-TS55+Basis5A (OF1010), MFT/3, MFS400/700, FS800-1080-1400-1900, Centrotec-SYS 09, DF 500 full set, some accessories :)

Offline Redfox

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2010, 04:54 PM »
I use the 3,5mm adjustable countersink drill bit to help me in making precise assembly of loudspeakercabinets for a friend's rental-disco-something.
Works very nice and it seems more precise contrary to normal buy it Saturday-afternoon-stuff. So I'm satisfied.
Sometimes I use the two seperate countersinks when looking carefully at small narrow stuff that I have to keep control of. Very nice and sharp too. No marks or scruffs.

Cheers,
Jacques.

Offline greg mann

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2010, 01:06 PM »
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits "feel" like a very decent quality HSS-G but don't "look" like it.
Usually HSS-G ( a very high quality HSS substrate with a substantially heightened Cobalt content ) has a slightly bronze tint that develops during the tempering process.
As the tempering process has a negligeable affect on the sizing, HSS-G tools are usually tempered after grinding, the coloration serves as a distinction from "normal" lower grade HSS steels.
It is however entirely possible to (re) grind after tempering, that would leave a standard blank steel appearance.

HSS qualities vary wildly. Even steels that show a perfectly similar composition when analysed via mass-spectography, can vary in edge retention as much as 1000(!) percent...
It's all in the grainsize and temperature control.
Good HSS rocks! Bad HSS..... not so much. HSS is developed to significantly "up" the edge retention in higher temperatures.
That USED to mean "when drilling in steel and the likes" but who hasn't trashed a CV bit losing it's temper in hardwood? Especially high-silica species like Teak and the likes ?
The Festool Centrotec bradpoint bits are top-notch. Edge retention is super, even when "the goin' gets tough". This leads to lower cutting temperatures, and cleaner cuts.


Regards,

Job


This is quite right. HSS is still high-carbon steel, but with alloys that make it more heat resistant. But in the end, these are very generic terms as Job has pointed out. It is a little bit like the old Crocodile Dundee line, "That's not a knife, this is a knife." Festool spec's a very high quality HSS that has pretty good edge retention at elevated temperatures, but the most important criteria for long life in any steel tool is keeping heat generation down, followed by avoiding mechanical shock like hitting a nail or concrete. We tend to think the cutting edge 'burns up' on these materials but it is really blunted by mechanical shock, and then the now dulled edge generates excess heat before we can react and shut it down. If one could catch the damage on the first impact it would look quite different than it does after two or three more revolutions. Hardness is only one variable in performance and not the most important in most cases.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 90
Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2018, 12:47 PM »
Can the Centrotec Drill bit with Countersink also do counterbores for holes that will be plugged?


thanks

Offline greg mann

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2018, 05:19 PM »
Can the Centrotec Drill bit with Countersink also do counterbores for holes that will be plugged?


thanks

In a word, no. I think a good way to create counterbores is to start the hole with a Brad point bit that matches the diameter of your plug. Drill to the depth you want for the plug and then drill the hole for the screw. You can make it as complicated as you want depending on the type of head on the screw, meaning whether it has a flat shoulder or a head that requires a countersink. If you have room a square shoulder screw will require less work as it can bear on the flat at the bottom of your plug diameter.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 313
Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2018, 09:18 AM »
AA's aren't all the same size, there is quite some variation. The Sanyo Eneloops are a fair bit smaller than the GP 2700 AA's to the point that the latter don't fit an AA Maglite but the Eneloops do. Nominal size should be D14 x 50 [mm]  [tongue]

nice review, just looked at the price [eek] not much change from 100 gbp?

if you are going for more bits it maybe worth looking for a 07/08 centrotec sys set, they sometimes pop up on ebay for <200 it would work out cheaper than paying 6+ gbp per bit

For 100 GBP you get two of the 492523?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Short review of countersinks.
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2018, 10:00 AM »
Can the Centrotec Drill bit with Countersink also do counterbores for holes that will be plugged?

I also follow the method that Greg outlined. 🙏   By drilling the recess for the plug first with a brad point drill, you now have a center for the pilot hole.  [big grin]  For screws, I just use Torx drive flat head screws manufactured by GRK or Spax.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 10:03 AM by Cheese »