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Another New Product - CMS
« on: September 02, 2009, 04:41 PM »
End User Training (Trial Run).

The CMS.  Let me first say that availability and pricing have not been determined.  Also, the router table version is all that I'm aware of.

Plate inverted showing the OF1400 (I believe you can also mount the 1010 and 2200) and the attachment method - robust clips and threaded fasteners (black knobs attached).  You can also get a good view of the plunge adjustment mechanism that allows above the table height adjustment.


Underside of table with a better view of the mounting clips.


Above the table height adjustment.


Sliding table profile.  I believe you can adjust this fore and aft relative to the table (Rick or Brian?)




Joe



« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 08:50 PM by sawdustinmyshoes »

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Offline Ernesto Scott

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 04:50 PM »
Looks great!  Hooks up to the MFT and has a dedicated on/off switch.

How was the dust/chip collection?

Re: Another New Product - CMS 2
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 04:51 PM »
This screw allows you to adjust the CMS table into perfect alignment with the top of the MFT.


Powerswitch and scale.


Closeup of the scale on the table edge.


A shot of the front of the fence.  In this shot, an auxiliary guard is fitted.  This guard allows you to cover large bits (such as panel raising bits) entirely.


The fence is next . . .

Joe



Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 04:53 PM »
We didn't see it in operation.  However it was reported that based on their hands on tests, the dust collection is unbelievable.

Peter

Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 05:10 PM »
The router table fence is like that of a shaper - a one piece casting with removable faces attached to each side.  The fences also adjust in and out on the casting to accommodate different bit sizes.  Here's a side view:


Here's two shots of the rear of the of the casting.  There is an integral dust port.  The black knob is a micro adjustment knob for the infeed fence (shaper-like):



Another view of the micro adjustment knob.  There's also a scale on the side of the casting (below):


Closeup of the scale on the casting:



The guard is next . . .

Offline EcoFurniture

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 05:53 PM »
I love it already! I can't wait to get one of those! I hope they are not just going to be sold as a set with the router...

Offline Steve-CO

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 06:22 PM »
I love it already! I can't wait to get one of those! I hope they are not just going to be sold as a set with the router...

Hopefully they'll offer it stand alone.  It would make sense to also offer package deals with the MFT and/or various routers.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 07:00 PM »
The following is my opinion only.  We were asked if there was interest within the class for the the CMS.  Yes there was.  We were asked at what price would we buy.  The answers were varied.

It is sexy.  It has so many cool features.  It will not be cheap.  I hope it makes it to these shores but personally don't think it will happen unless they can make it work with the TS55 / 75 and the Trion jigsaws.  It is part of the overall system and also a system unto itself.  Part of the expense is in making it a system.  Only having the router insert available will not make it feasible due to cost.  I hope I'm wrong.

UNLESS, there is enough pre-spoken demand.  Hint.  Hint.

Peter

Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 07:09 PM »
The guard and angle unit:
The guard "assembly" is a two piece unit.  The black piece is nearest the fence and acts as a featherboard in that it exerts downward pressure on the stock while the clear piece acts as a guard and exerts lateral force on the stock.
The photos below show the guard rotated out of the way to the vertical position.



Additional shots of the guard assembly rotated to the functioning position, except for the clear guard, which is still rotated up and out of the way.  Unfortunately, I have no additional photos showing both guards in the functional positions.



This angle unit looks familiar.


Joe

Offline EcoFurniture

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 07:25 PM »
I totally agree. It would be more likely to justify buying that unit if there would be also an insert for the ts and the jigsaw!
What would I be willing to pay for it? Hmmmm? For the base unit maybe $600 and for each insert maybe another $3-400. Otherwise it's very difficult to make that expense.


Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 07:40 PM »
I have been very interested in the CMS for a long time but I doubt that I would purchase it if it only supported a router in North America.  If they also provided TS 75 support in North America it is very likely that I would buy it.

How much would I pay?  I think about $700 US for the base, $300 US for the router insert, and about $300 US for the plunge saw insert.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Jesus Aleman

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 07:50 PM »
I second that.  I have a very small workspace that doesn't allow me to have space dedicated to a single use tool.  An attachment for my MFT that would take the TS, trion, and OF routers would be the way to go.  I would have to plan my workflow, but the space savings and the system integration would be gold.  I expect the price to be comparable to other Festool components, but hopefully, they have an equitable introductory price.  I already have the table, TS, jigsaw and router.  All I would need is the table extension that integrates them all.

Cheers,

JGA.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 08:48 PM »
The best part is it's portability and it can also be used sitting on the floor, just like the mft and kapex.

A lot less wear and tear on me, not having to stand up all the time.

There is nothing else that is portable and rugged at the same time.

Offline Festoller

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 04:32 AM »
It looks like the CMS OF #570251 (just the unit without router and base)

http://www.festool.co.uk/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=3700&PARENT=1662&AKTIVPROD=1

and here's the complete set of CMS base CMS OF and OF 1400 #570258

http://www.festool.co.uk/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5626&PARENT=1662&AKTIVPROD=1

Instead of the CMS base you can of course use the MFT extension (Guide Extension MFT/3 VL #495510)

http://www.festool.co.uk/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=1625&ID_O_PRODUCT=370265&BLATT=4&PARENT=1662&BEGIN=1&AKTIV=1&#anker

Assuming you already have the router the MFT/3 VL plus the CMS OF costs GBP 625 (US$ 1,000) and the CMS Base plus CMS OF costs GBP 691 (US$ 1,130) at todays exchange rate of 1.63. All prices without tax!

That's a lot of money for a router table, even compared to the top manufacturers. Unless there's a really great package deal comming up, I'll keep my old router table.

The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be. -Douglas Adams-

Offline EcoFurniture

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 09:56 AM »
Thanks for your post!
That could mean, that after we get it into Canada, that whole assembly could cost around $1500 for just the table and insert... That would pretty much be a no go for me.... :'(

Offline David Figueroa

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 01:22 PM »
I am a hobbyist, and own several Festools and would love to get a CMS, but not at the prices you guys are talking about... if you price out a woodpecker router lift/table/stand it comes out to $550. Ok so lets pay some extra cash for the "system" say $100, so I am saying $650 tops.

Dave

p.s I would sure like to know what you guys do for a living, so I can change jobs to do that. :-)

Offline Wim

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2009, 02:01 PM »
I'm planning a move from Holland to the USA, next year or the year after that. I have used in Holland a TS55, an OF1010, CMS-inserts for these and the CMS-table, the Domino with extra's and of course a dust collector, the CT MINI.
I will get rid of my "European" stuff and because of my good experiences with Festool, I will buy the same equipment and something new. I already have a "USA" TS55 and a CT MINI, waiting for me when I return in November.
Therefore I'm very pleased to learn the CMS-system will be available in the USA. So before Christmas, I will do some investments in black/green stuff.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2009, 03:24 PM »
I am a hobbyist, and own several Festools and would love to get a CMS, but not at the prices you guys are talking about... if you price out a woodpecker router lift/table/stand it comes out to $550. Ok so lets pay some extra cash for the "system" say $100, so I am saying $650 tops.

Dave

p.s I would sure like to know what you guys do for a living, so I can change jobs to do that. :-)


I make a living remodeling houses.  The less time it takes to complete a task, the more profit I make.
To have some thing such as the cms out in the field would be fantastic, it can be used right inside, no need to walk 3 extra miles a day.

Plus, it can be used at home.

I made a decision about 2 years ago that I didnot want to be tied down to a shop.  Festool is the only way I see that happening.
Shop quality tools for the job site.

Offline Tooldude

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2009, 01:16 PM »
It is hard to judge the US price based upon European prices.  All Festool is considerably cheaper in the US (currently) than anywhere else.  This is because the US is seen as a throw-away tool market (they are right about that) and to break into this market Festool had to lower their prices till it hurt.  US dealers cannot sell and ship outside of the US without risk of losing their distributorship. 

Offline dave w1

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2009, 01:52 PM »
hi guys, the cms systym can support the ts 55/75
all routers from 1010 up,
ps 300 jigsaw
and a belt sander

Offline Rey Johnson

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2009, 02:10 PM »
Looks like a great product. I would buy it!! I fear the price though.

I think though, even if the price was outrageous, I'd fight the urge like crazy, but would probably buy it in the end.

Not many companies have that effect on me, but Festool does.


Rey
TS55|AT65|TDK15.6|OF1400|PS300|RO150E|MFS700|MFS400|FS2700|FS1400|FS1080|FS800|MFT3(2)|MFT1080(2)|MFT800(2)|CT33E(2)|Kapex|RS2E|ETS150/3|Domino

Offline thalvor

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Offline wnagle

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2009, 03:12 PM »
From my understanding, it will probably only support the Routers here in the US.  I don't think they are going to be bringing all of the options here.
Wayne

 

TS 55, CT 33 x2, ROTEX 150, RO 90, DOMINO 500Q SET, TRION PS 300, OF 1400, MFT/3, ETS 150/3, KAPEX KS 120, DOMINO XL.

Offline Rey Johnson

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2009, 04:13 PM »
From my understanding, it will probably only support the Routers here in the US.  I don't think they are going to be bringing all of the options here.

That figures. The TS55 and jigsaw capabilities are what I'd be most interested in...here in the US. I'm thinking...scroll saw on steroids, or bandsaw without the band for interior cuts.
TS55|AT65|TDK15.6|OF1400|PS300|RO150E|MFS700|MFS400|FS2700|FS1400|FS1080|FS800|MFT3(2)|MFT1080(2)|MFT800(2)|CT33E(2)|Kapex|RS2E|ETS150/3|Domino

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2009, 04:20 PM »
It is hard to judge the US price based upon European prices.  All Festool is considerably cheaper in the US (currently) than anywhere else.  This is because the US is seen as a throw-away tool market (they are right about that) and to break into this market Festool had to lower their prices till it hurt.  US dealers cannot sell and ship outside of the US without risk of losing their distributorship. 

No, the European pricing will likely be close to what it will sell for here in the US. The prices on new products have been closer to what the rest of the world is paying. I suspect our days of paying less for Festool products are numbered. 
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Gene Howerton

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2009, 05:30 PM »
I would buy it if it had the saw and jigsaw attachments.  My shop is a one car garage and now mostly Festool.  The inserts would help me ave space, which is a premium in my shop setup.

Offline Al

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2009, 06:24 PM »
I have been very interested in the CMS for a long time but I doubt that I would purchase it if it only supported a router in North America.  If they also provided TS 75 support in North America it is very likely that I would buy it.

How much would I pay?  I think about $700 US for the base, $300 US for the router insert, and about $300 US for the plunge saw insert.

Frank,

Can I borrow a million or 2?   I'm glad you don't set prices for Festool. :o  If you did, the only thing I could afford are the Trion Jig Saw blades and I'd have to buy them at Home Depot.

Al

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2009, 06:46 PM »
It's kind of like my 1200 dollar tile saw, use it about 5-10 times a year but, it is so nice to have it.  Paid for itself the first time I got a hernia setting it up.

Some of you that think it might be pricey, do you have that 1300 dollar miter saw??

Offline EcoFurniture

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2009, 07:07 PM »
It's kind of like my 1200 dollar tile saw, use it about 5-10 times a year but, it is so nice to have it.  Paid for itself the first time I got a hernia setting it up.

Some of you that think it might be pricey, do you have that 1300 dollar miter saw??

As a hobbyist I would not be able to justify to purchase of any festool... As a company, I have to think about the tasks a tool has to do. If it helps me generate more money, make my life easier AND improve quality then it is no big deal to spend big$$$ on Festool. There are only a couple of items I can't see getting the money out of: the kapex and rotex....

The CMS on the other hand will be another big helper in my shop. I surely hope that they will also bring in the TS55 insert and also sell the components separate!

Offline fshanno

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Re: Another New Product - CMS
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2009, 08:16 PM »
That is one fine piece of equipment.  It's pricey but just LOOK AT IT!  You've got to consider the ROI in terms of a lifetime of business use.  That's where I was with the parallel guides.  $325 was a lot for some aluminum and plastic and the payback was over a long long haul because alternative methods were pretty good and very cheap.  But there was payback down the road.  And though I'm reaping the payback very slowly I do have a really cool gizmo that's very fun to use.  Life is better.  That's my bottom line. 

But it's got to have TS and Trion support.  Festool will be wasting their time and they'll only sell a handful if they stop with the router insert only.  I can't believe they'd do that.  A sliding platform just for a router setup?  That's just dumb.  You have the sliding platform for cross cutting with the saw and if it happens to be there for routing so much the better.  I'll bet you anything they bring the whole rig.  If they aren't intending that now they will come to their senses.
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