Author Topic: brand-new tool  (Read 3141 times)

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Offline DanielOB

  • Posts: 148
brand-new tool
« on: May 09, 2017, 03:45 PM »
As I put a long ago, Festool is the least expensive tool on the market, but even that when inserting that much money for the tool I would like to get a brand-new even not touched tool. Crazy but well that is just me.

So how one can know the tool was not returned when salesperson bring the box in from of me?  [eek]

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Offline RKA

  • Posts: 863
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 03:50 PM »
Buy it from a reputable dealer who doesn't put returned stock back into inventory. 
-Raj

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 413
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 04:17 PM »
I guess there are different levels if you will of 'returned', at least that is how I see it.

A couple days ago I was in Woodcraft and picked up a couple blades for my TSC55.
I got the Panther 12T blade and also a 32T blade. I didn't realize it until I got home
but that 32T blade is for the HK55 and should not be used on the TS or TSC55. Says
on the package HK55 but the blade itself has a big circle/slash  over TS55 (visible
through the package window without ever taking the blade out) meaning not for use
on the TS55. So without ever using the blade I took it back and exchanged it for the
correct 28T blade.

So, is that 'returned merchandise' by your definition that should not be put back on
the shelf?

What if someone buys a OF1400 and decides (before ever using the tool) that they
want the OF2200 or the OF1010 instead. Should that go back on the shelf or are
you expecting it to be discounted some percentage or sold as a demo or something
else. I don't think this is a one size fits all decision and has to be done on a case by
case basis, but fairly to the consumer for sure.

Festool has a 30 day return policy right. My feeling is that any tool that was purchased
and put to use then returned for whatever reason is no longer a new tool and should
not be set back on the shelf and represented as new.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 04:20 PM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline DanielOB

  • Posts: 148
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 04:54 PM »
Returns as you described would not worry me at all. B_U_T...
Who can knows that you did not get oF1400 just to disassembly it to learn how to replace the Motor-brushes rather then to do it on your own oF1400. You knows it but you are NOT the "next" customer.
So, that is I would like to clear if possible.

My feeling is that any tool that was purchased
and put to use...
It is the question how we can know it was in use or not?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 04:57 PM by DanielOB »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3114
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 05:05 PM »
Did you @DanielOB have an experience of buying a tool that was not new?

There must be a policy on this that Festool has worked out with its dealers, and some sort of dividing line that determines whether a product goes back on the shelf or gets thrown into the pool of tools for the next recon sale.
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Online ben_r_

  • Posts: 649
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 10:05 PM »
If it looks used or anything but perfect, just tell them you want another. If you order online, return it and make them pay return shipping. Any authorized reseller will take care of you.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 413
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 04:51 AM »
Returns as you described would not worry me at all. B_U_T...
Who can knows that you did not get oF1400 just to disassembly it to learn how to replace the Motor-brushes rather then to do it on your own oF1400. You knows it but you are NOT the "next" customer.
So, that is I would like to clear if possible.

My feeling is that any tool that was purchased
and put to use...
It is the question how we can know it was in use or not?

Yes, I would not want one of those returned tools either. It can be difficult to determine if someone has done as you suggest or worse, swapped out a broken or malfunctioning part on their tool for the one on a tool they returned. I guess the safest bet is don't buy anything, but realistically just keep your guard up and look any purchase over carefully. If not satisfied then return it or negotiate some form of adjustment to offset your pain and suffering.

I have never seen a Festool in a Systainer that had any type of seal on the box. That might go a long way to giving people peace of mind that they have a virgin tool. You can buy a $1 item in that PITA to open clamshell plastic packaging and you can be 99.999% certain no one has ever used or even breathed on it. But you buy a $1000+ tool and you have no way of knowing for sure.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1839
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 05:06 AM »
My distributor in Atlanta, Highland Woodworking, would be the last retailer in the country that I would suspect of selling used items as new. I feel totally confident that I am buying a completely new item when I spend my money there. Their reputation is worth far more to them than whatever they would make from a shady deal.

If the OP doesn't have that feeling about his distributor, he should take his money elsewhere.
Birdhunter

Offline charley1968

  • Posts: 482
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 07:01 AM »
What more than contractual security do you need? If you find your purchase to be faulty, you return the item. It's as simple as that. I mean we're talking tools not heart valves, right?
Just for today..

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3077
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 11:12 AM »
I mean we're talking tools not heart valves, right?

 [thumbs up]    [thumbs up]

Online ben_r_

  • Posts: 649
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 11:55 AM »
Returns as you described would not worry me at all. B_U_T...
Who can knows that you did not get oF1400 just to disassembly it to learn how to replace the Motor-brushes rather then to do it on your own oF1400. You knows it but you are NOT the "next" customer.
So, that is I would like to clear if possible.

My feeling is that any tool that was purchased
and put to use...
It is the question how we can know it was in use or not?

Yes, I would not want one of those returned tools either. It can be difficult to determine if someone has done as you suggest or worse, swapped out a broken or malfunctioning part on their tool for the one on a tool they returned. I guess the safest bet is don't buy anything, but realistically just keep your guard up and look any purchase over carefully. If not satisfied then return it or negotiate some form of adjustment to offset your pain and suffering.

I have never seen a Festool in a Systainer that had any type of seal on the box. That might go a long way to giving people peace of mind that they have a virgin tool. You can buy a $1 item in that PITA to open clamshell plastic packaging and you can be 99.999% certain no one has ever used or even breathed on it. But you buy a $1000+ tool and you have no way of knowing for sure.
Ha ha! VERY good point! I wish they would figure out a good way to seal the Systainers. At my local Woodcraft all the Festool tools look overly handled because they are all left out and people play with them and they dont sell very fast so they stay out there for a long time before someone buys them. By then I consider them demo units so I'd never buy a tool from them.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4314
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 11:58 AM »
Never really thought about whether a tool was used when I bought it. Most reputable tool dealers will let you know if it was a return, new or refurbished.

I dont buy from a dealer that I dont have a relationship with. Im quite chatty over the phone when I order from on line retailers and Im one of those guys who hangs out at the tool stores chatting with the folks that work there.

You'll find that the dealer that come here are pretty straight forward and honest. Though all here are very good and reputable, I deal with Bob and Aldo in the US and Warren at Toolfest here in the UK.

Its all about relationships

Now as far as the sysainer thing and people stressing over whether someone has/ could of touched the
 tool before them. I guess they would never buy a car unless it has 0 miles on it or go to a jewelry store on Rodeo Drive and ask whether anyone tried that ring on before...

My brick and mortar have tools on display to fondle and play with, but when I buy one they go in the back and get one out of stock.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 12:04 PM by jobsworth »
Calif Here I come Baby

Offline RobBob

  • Posts: 1073
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 12:07 PM »
Ha ha! VERY good point! I wish they would figure out a good way to seal the Systainers. At my local Woodcraft all the Festool tools look overly handled because they are all left out and people play with them and they dont sell very fast so they stay out there for a long time before someone buys them. By then I consider them demo units so I'd never buy a tool from them.

I feel the same about Woodcraft Festool items.  This is the kind of thing Festool should get a handle on, if they want to increase sales.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3077
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2017, 01:13 PM »
Two weeks ago I just purchased the last metric TSC 55 from the local Woodcraft store. They pulled it out of their inventory room in the back, the Systainer had some dust on the outside, so it's probably been around awhile. I checked the build date on the saw and it was April 2015.

However...the saw still came with a 30 day return policy and a 3 year warranty, what am I missing here?

After it's been used for 8 hours, it will no longer look as nice as when I first pulled it out of that dirty Systainer. Just the nature of a tool that's made for functional purposes.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1027
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2017, 01:35 PM »
This all sounds like first world tool collectors' problems rather than a real issue to me.

I wouldn't want a used tool if I purchased a new one either. I have actually been in that boat before too; with a festool jigsaw.   Emailed the dealer with some photos and they sent a UPS call tag.  I was out some of my time, and not happy about it;  but the process was rather uneventful.

This is part of the reason companies like Festool have price maintenance agreements and stringent dealer policies. It's part of the overall cust. svc. program to know I have a solid avenue for issues like this.

Online ben_r_

  • Posts: 649
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2017, 01:48 PM »
This all sounds like first world tool collectors' problems rather than a real issue to me.

I wouldn't want a used tool if I purchased a new one either. I have actually been in that boat before too; with a festool jigsaw.   Emailed the dealer with some photos and they sent a UPS call tag.  I was out some of my time, and not happy about it;  but the process was rather uneventful.

This is part of the reason companies like Festool have price maintenance agreements and stringent dealer policies. It's part of the overall cust. svc. program to know I have a solid avenue for issues like this.
Had the same thing happen to me with a Trion from ToolNut.com. It was marked "demo" and BADLY beat up. They apologized and said they didnt know how that happened and they sent me out another one and paid for shipping back for the used one. No worries, I was only out a week or so.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3663
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 04:57 PM »
...
So, that is I would like to clear if possible.

My feeling is that any tool that was purchased
and put to use...
It is the question how we can know it was in use or not?

I am guessing that it does not matter if in practice the tool fulfills its function?

But it is rather the idea that the tool was somehow pre-violated before you got a hold of it?

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 347
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
    • Portfolio
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 05:19 PM »
Non-issue for me. I agree with @antss

--

1) I buy from dealers I trust.
2) Mistakes of all sorts can happen and are in my experience taken care of immediately and handled with priority.
3) I don't care if someone else handled the tool before I bought it.

4) In the rare event (Has this really ever happened to someone (here)?) that someone bought a tool under the 30 day return period to exchange a part in order not to have to pay for said spare part and/or the repair costs and I would be affected by it in any other way than a pre-mature trip to the Festool-Spa for the tool in question - I would know how to deal with it.

To me, especially the last one, is the same as worrying if your new car (dealership NEW, not second hand) has been stripped of a part because they needed it to repair another car and forgot to put it back in when the spare came... Or a car mechanic gone rogue...

I mean, could it be? Theoretically, yes - but for real? I don't see this in "my" world.

I have no Idea about how it works in NA or other European Countries - but to give an example how it works in Germany:

If I, as a private owner, would cut my fingers off with my TSC for example (May God prevent that ever happens) first off all my health insurance would want to know how it happened (they know what they pay for, and if a treatment screams "accident" they act accordingly), then my accident insurance would want to know the same, because obviously I would ask them to cover my accident and everything in conjunction with it. Now if there was the slightest chance for them not needing to pay, they would "investigate" this. So if I tell them: I did everything correct with my brand new TSC but suddenly the riving knife fell to the floor and the saw made an unexpected move before I could react properly/switch off the tool. They would work their magic on me, dealer/dealer's insurance, manufacturer/manufacturer's insurance.

However, I guess it could turn out to be quite the drama to proof it wasn't me who opened the saw in first place.  [tongue]

I should go back to my padded cell now and hope I don't suffocate myself with the pillow...  [tongue]

Life — and I don't suppose I'm the first to make this comparison — is a disease: sexually transmitted, and invariably fatal. - Neil Gaiman - Death Talks About Life (January 1993)

Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline jdw101

  • Posts: 67
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2017, 11:02 AM »
My brick and mortar have tools on display to fondle and play with, but when I buy one they go in the back and get one out of stock.

I pay extra for the tools that have been fondled.

Offline DanielOB

  • Posts: 148
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2017, 12:21 PM »
The question is
" .. how one can know the tool was not returned when salesperson bring the box in front of me?"

NOT
should anyone buy used/returned tool. This is person to person.

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5388
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2017, 12:31 PM »
The question is
" .. how one can know the tool was not returned when salesperson bring the box in front of me?"


You can't know, unless you're clairvoyant.

So no use worrying about it. If you get a tool that's not performing as it should, return it or have it serviced.

Offline Rip Van Winkle

  • Posts: 247
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2017, 07:49 PM »
In some US states it's illegal to sell something as new if it has been sold and left the store. This includes items that may have never been opened and immediately returned. The reason is the vendor has absolutely no way to know for sure what has happened to the item while the item was out of the vendors control. Thos is one of the reasons major retailers like anazon have open box deals, and the reason there are plenty of resellers of new "other" items on ebay.

I presume Festool might want to look into this and follow it.

I've always presumed the reason Festool guarantees parts availability for the length of time they do, is because California has a law requiring parts availability for a certain amount of time, for electrical items costing more than X amount. 

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1027
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2017, 07:59 PM »
which states have that statute Rip ?

Offline Jozsef Kozma

  • Posts: 88
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2017, 08:18 PM »
This is common practice at Home Depot
I can even say that Dewalt , Bosh and Milwaukee know
about it
I try to by all tools from people I trust and sometimes that
comes with additional time spend while getting a tool
A professional relationship goes a long way


Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 171
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2017, 08:54 PM »
4) In the rare event (Has this really ever happened to someone (here)?) that someone bought a tool under the 30 day return period to exchange a part in order not to have to pay for said spare part and/or the repair costs and I would be affected by it in any other way than a pre-mature trip to the Festool-Spa for the tool in question - I would know how to deal with it.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Being the simpleton that I am, I had never even thought of such a thing.  Thanks for educating me how the real world works.

Offline deltafunction

  • Posts: 16
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2017, 09:13 PM »
I bought a "new" pasload framing nailer last fall.  Took it home and worked with it for a few weeks.  put it away and pulled it back out for another project this past January.  The gun wouldn't work so I ended up talking to customer service at passload and they asked for the serial number for the tool and battery.  Long story short I guess I ended up buying a tool that gave every appearance of being new but had an aftermarket battery in it.  Passload was good to me and sent me a new one but it makes me not want to buy tools from the local big box store again.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1027
Re: brand-new tool
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 08:27 AM »
This is common practice at Home Depot
I can even say that Dewalt , Bosh and Milwaukee know
about it
I try to by all tools from people I trust and sometimes that
comes with additional time spend while getting a tool
A professional relationship goes a long way


Well, not exactly.   [huh]

A lot of items are returned to the shelves.  But they also send stuff back to the manuf. via RTV - return to vendor.  It's negotiated / coerced at the contract stage.  You wanna sell your widget in our stores; you're going to take back every return we get and credit our account.

Where do you think all that stuff at your local liquidator or at large eBay sellers comes from ? The stuff often has orange or green stickers from the store on the packaging that designates it. Not always though. 

The manuf. doesn't really want any of that stuff back at their facility. It's just a part/cost of doing business.  Just like a defect rate or food spoiling before its bought at the grocer.