Author Topic: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?  (Read 1620 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 69
Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« on: May 17, 2017, 06:42 AM »
Off the bat, I concur with what many other users here have stated use the 500 for its intended purpose and the same for the 700.
Don't get the 700 and then try and use the Seneca adapters etc.

Besides getting them down here in South Africa will be a mission.

Reading all the articles, reviews and forum posts here I think the 500 would be the right machine for me:

will be making some display shelving units using 20mm/22mm stock  - 500 territory
making a TV display unit also with MDF or 20/22mm stock - 500 territory
another display unti/wine rack with X shelves with thinner stock - 500 territory
desk for my wife - could go either way
contemporary planters with slat bench between - mentioned in previous thread, bought MFT first since those discussions highlighted somethings

Now my conundrum....
Will be making 3-4 planter boxes similar to the fantasic cedar one @JoDo made:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/cedar-planters-(domino)/

Will be using 38mm X 114mm stock for the rails and 69x69mm for the posts.
3x 114 will be stacked on top of each other to make the 4 sides.

If I follow the 1/3 rule strictly speaking I need to use Sipo 12mm dominos, but can I get away with the 10x50mm instead?
The other problem is that only gives me a tenon that gets in 23-25mm into the post (1/3) instead of halfway.
However if I went halfway then in theory I would have restrictions anyway and the dominos might run into one another if they were not placed carefully.

Will this be strong enough?

I'm not planning on building huge tables, barn doors or rocket ships so the 700 is over kill even though I think its more comfortable in the hand.

Is the 500 the correct option or could one use the 700 on the other projects I listed above with 8mm dominos?
Although on 20/22mm stock I think I would be losing a lot of material with 8mm dominos or would it be fine?
HKC 55, PDC 18/4, CXS, ETS EC 150/5, CT17E, Rotex 90, TS55, MFT3, OF1400, Trion PS300, EHL 65

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 390
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2017, 07:01 AM »
I reckon 80-90% of general furniture making can be accomplished perfectly (also with more user friendly comfort) using the 500.
 
And with the above boxes 10 x 23 X 50 is heaps, and you can also use the widest setting and make your own 10 X 33 x 55 Dominos
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 07:19 AM by Terry Fogarty »
.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2524
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2017, 07:17 AM »
I reckon 80-90% of general furniture making can be accomplished perfectly . . .

And with the above boxes 10 x 23 X 50 is heaps, and you can also use the widest setting and make your own 10 X 33 x 50 Dominos

That's good advice @Terry Fogarty.

Sure there is overlap with the 700 but many of the tasks mentioned by @Jmacpherson  fall within the scope of the 500 and if you can only have one go with it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 07:22 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 390
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2017, 07:20 AM »
I reckon 80-90% of general furniture making can be accomplished perfectly . . .

And with the above boxes 10 x 23 X 50 is heaps, and you can also use the widest setting and make your own 10 X 33 x 50 Dominos

That's good advice @Terry Fogarty.

Thanks, I changed the max depth to 55mm length as the max plunge on the 500 is 28mm

And for a job like that when I make my own, just before glue up I will place the home made Dominos in an engineers vice and give a 1/4 handle turn to slightly compress and add some indentations for better glue surface holding.

And small tip, when using the vice the to compress, the width will slightly expand, so start with a 32mm (w) domino
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 07:26 AM by Terry Fogarty »
.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3124
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2017, 07:45 AM »
You can definitely get away with 10mm for this project.  It's not like it's a bed where people are going to be jumping up and down on it...
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • DX 93 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • CT 26 w/Long-Life Bag • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 69
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2017, 07:45 AM »
I reckon 80-90% of general furniture making can be accomplished perfectly (also with more user friendly comfort) using the 500.
 
And with the above boxes 10 x 23 X 50 is heaps, and you can also use the widest setting and make your own 10 X 33 x 55 Dominos
Thanks for the confirmation .

I think I'm following you, so you if you were using regular dominos then you would cut the slots making sure that all of them had play in them instead of a tight fit?
Instead of 25mm setting for depth use the max of 28mm - I'm on the same page.

The planters will not be raised, the ground will be supporting their wait so ultimately the box only has to keep the soil in.

I think its the handle of the 700 that I liked but I recall someone stating that use the 700 long enough, especially for vertical cuts you are going to feel it.
HKC 55, PDC 18/4, CXS, ETS EC 150/5, CT17E, Rotex 90, TS55, MFT3, OF1400, Trion PS300, EHL 65

Offline Terry Fogarty

  • Posts: 390
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2017, 07:56 AM »

Thanks for the confirmation .

I think I'm following you, so you if you were using regular dominos then you would cut the slots making sure that all of them had play in them instead of a tight fit?
Instead of 25mm setting for depth use the max of 28mm - I'm on the same page.



That's correct,  longest plunge is 28mm and the widest setting is 33mm, and that will be perfect for a home made 10 x 33 x 55  Domino.
.

Offline JoDo

  • Posts: 30
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2017, 07:56 AM »
While I'd like to have a 700, 99% of the stuff I've done has been just fine with the 500. That other 1% is probably fine too, but I need to keep something in my back pocket to justify my addiction, and possible future purchase of the 700. As others have mentioned, it all depends on what you'll be making for the majority of your projects. For my cedar planters you mentioned, not for 1 minute while making those did I think about the 700.

The WW has a decent (albeit a few years old) article re: the 500vs700 debate;

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/domino-df500-vs-domino-xl-df700-which-is-right-for-me/

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 69
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2017, 09:24 AM »
While I'd like to have a 700, 99% of the stuff I've done has been just fine with the 500. That other 1% is probably fine too, but I need to keep something in my back pocket to justify my addiction, and possible future purchase of the 700. As others have mentioned, it all depends on what you'll be making for the majority of your projects. For my cedar planters you mentioned, not for 1 minute while making those did I think about the 700.

The WW has a decent (albeit a few years old) article re: the 500vs700 debate;

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/domino-df500-vs-domino-xl-df700-which-is-right-for-me/

One of the articles I read that made me realize that the 500 was probably the right one for me.
Although I was worried that I fell into the grey category that the WW mentioned hence my post [embarassed]

I think I spotted a 500 in the background of one of your photos of the cedar planter?
HKC 55, PDC 18/4, CXS, ETS EC 150/5, CT17E, Rotex 90, TS55, MFT3, OF1400, Trion PS300, EHL 65

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 652
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2017, 12:11 PM »
Pretty much every thread on this topic Ive seen ends up being that a vast majority say they can do >90% of what they build with the DF 500.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline clark_fork

  • Posts: 242
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2017, 01:03 PM »
Pretty much every thread on this topic Ive seen ends up being that a vast majority say they can do >90% of what they build with the DF 500.

Very true, a matter of cost/benefit analysis for most. Also...

Before the Dominos, there were lap joints, dovetail joints, mortise and tenon joints, biscuits, nails, screws, dowels as well as many other joinery techniques. When Woodpeckers sent out their "Ultimate Doweling Jig", it came equipped for 1/2 inch dowels suggesting some are still using dowels for heavier applications. The decision on the 700 XL is weighted towards both the cost-benefit and availability of alternative joinery. Another factor for delaying a purchase for some is the real possibility  and inevitability of an alternative tool coming to market at a much lower cost.



Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths."  Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful,
don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 126
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2017, 02:18 PM »
For the one off project, I figure, you could always just plunge with the DF500 and then take a drill and a chisel and deepen your mortise like a caveman. [emoji12]

At least that's what I plan to do, if I ever feel the 55mm is not long enough.

...there are just too many tools in front of the DF700 on my wishlist for now. ;)

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 4315
  • Burger Babe Says: I Even Buy Green Bananas
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 03:18 AM »
I'm planning on making some planters when I return to the states. I'll use the 500 and with 4x post and 2x rails , I'll double or even triple the the dominos for each joint. I'll be checking out West systems expoxy instead of the normal title bond or reg exterior glue. That should be plenty strong to hold my tomato and pepper plants.
Oh the dimensions are going to be roughly 30" high and roughly about 32" long. I got to get home to measure the size of those plastic terra cotta pot things that blowes do home toy sells. I might go with 3 length wise rather than 2. All depends how things measure out.
Something to do in my retirement🤙
Calif Here I come Baby

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1845
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 05:23 AM »
I may have missed it, but Sipo tenons need to be used for joints that are exposed to the elements. Something like a planter is especially needful for Sipo tenons.
Birdhunter

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 69
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 05:55 AM »
Thanks @Birdhunter, I'm planning on the Sipo dominos unless I go the custom route as others have suggested then I would use something that is just as suitable.

@grobkuschelig - "mortise like a caveman", that made my day :)

@jobsworth, I used exterior waterproof glue on my previous planters with screws or coach screws (I countersunk the heads using a spade bit) but the posts were on the insides of the boxes. I used pocket screws to attach the rails to one another.

Weed cloth/landscape fabric attached to the bottom with staples for drainage and then plastic sheeting with some holes in the inside for drainage and to increase the lifetime of the wood. Also should prevent anything that wood might have been treated with from getting into the soil.
HKC 55, PDC 18/4, CXS, ETS EC 150/5, CT17E, Rotex 90, TS55, MFT3, OF1400, Trion PS300, EHL 65

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1845
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 08:57 AM »
I made 10 large outdoor benches with Ipe using Sipo tenons. The Sipo comes in a package of long lengths that you cut to length. Pretty inexpensive. I chamfered the ends and I pinned the tenons with small screws for added security. The screws were driven from the underside of the bench so didn't show. I used two part epoxy, but Titebond III probably would have worked.
Birdhunter

Offline Jmacpherson

  • Posts: 69
Re: Can I Get Away With A Domino 500 instead of 700?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 07:34 AM »
Economy wise, it seems the longer Sipo dominos 10x750 make more sense than the box of 255. (10x50)
Since I don't have a table saw, mitre saw and stop block will have to do.
HKC 55, PDC 18/4, CXS, ETS EC 150/5, CT17E, Rotex 90, TS55, MFT3, OF1400, Trion PS300, EHL 65