Author Topic: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version  (Read 100354 times)

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Offline RL

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #120 on: April 29, 2011, 01:12 PM »
If and when the Carvex does make it here, it will be interesting to see what changes have occurred from the current model and then to revisit this thread.

I suggest a Festool t-shirt be given to the most accurate speculator!


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Offline Guy Ashley

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #121 on: April 29, 2011, 01:17 PM »
My money is on Kens Ipod docking port!! [tongue]
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Offline SRSemenza

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #122 on: April 29, 2011, 01:44 PM »
My money is on Kens Ipod docking port!! [tongue]


You mean PODEX  [smile]


Seth

Offline Bob Menefee

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #123 on: April 29, 2011, 03:12 PM »
Can someone help me here, what is the purpose of the strobe? I saw it in the videos and was confused by the whole thing (don't worry, not a seizure, I confuse easily!). I simply do not understand what it provides....


The idea is to make it easier to follow the cut line.  Normally the jigsaw blades looks like a blur as you cut, with the strobe the blade appears stationary giving you the illusion of a fixed, clear reference to follow the line.  In theory anyhow.

I think the strobe light is great, and I hope it stays.
Thanks, Bob

Offline Guy Ashley

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #124 on: April 29, 2011, 03:20 PM »
Can someone help me here, what is the purpose of the strobe? I saw it in the videos and was confused by the whole thing (don't worry, not a seizure, I confuse easily!). I simply do not understand what it provides....


The idea is to make it easier to follow the cut line.  Normally the jigsaw blades looks like a blur as you cut, with the strobe the blade appears stationary giving you the illusion of a fixed, clear reference to follow the line.  In theory anyhow.

No theory, it does!!
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Offline Jesse Cloud

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #125 on: April 29, 2011, 03:22 PM »
I know, I know!  Several North American testers asked how the Carvex could be fitted with Royal Wedding souvenir pictures, and the engineers in Germany are preparing the upgrade. [cool]
« Last Edit: April 29, 2011, 05:23 PM by Jesse Cloud »

Offline Robert Robinson

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #126 on: April 29, 2011, 05:14 PM »
My guess would be that a parts shortage from Japanese suppliers due to the earthquake, and tsunami. Most of my RC cars use Japanese motors, about the same size as a jigsaw, or drill motor. We are running at 30% capacity at my work, and told it would be that way most of the summer.
TS-55, FS-KS angle unit, 55 inch guide rail, Domino (pin style), 3 Domino systainer assortments(one sipo set),Multi-position Guide Stop 20, Domiplate , PSB-300, FOGtainer 4, CXS set

Offline Ken Nagrod

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #127 on: April 29, 2011, 05:40 PM »
My guess would be that a parts shortage from Japanese suppliers due to the earthquake, and tsunami. Most of my RC cars use Japanese motors, about the same size as a jigsaw, or drill motor. We are running at 30% capacity at my work, and told it would be that way most of the summer.

Don't you work for Toyota?  Boy those hybrids are shrinking (RC cars use Japanese motors).

Offline Robert Robinson

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #128 on: April 29, 2011, 05:52 PM »
My guess would be that a parts shortage from Japanese suppliers due to the earthquake, and tsunami. Most of my RC cars use Japanese motors, about the same size as a jigsaw, or drill motor. We are running at 30% capacity at my work, and told it would be that way most of the summer.

Don't you work for Toyota?  Boy those hybrids are shrinking (RC cars use Japanese motors).
Yeah, I work for Toyota. Are the hybrids shrinking in size or quantity? We don't make them at our plant. I should of said all my RC cars have Japanese motors.
TS-55, FS-KS angle unit, 55 inch guide rail, Domino (pin style), 3 Domino systainer assortments(one sipo set),Multi-position Guide Stop 20, Domiplate , PSB-300, FOGtainer 4, CXS set

Offline Greg Powers

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #129 on: April 29, 2011, 06:08 PM »
Why is the title of this thread:

CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw

I thought the Carvex was just just DELAYED? Not CANCELED. To me cancelled means, we will never see the Carvex here in the USA? [sad]
Greg Powers
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Offline Peter Halle

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #130 on: April 29, 2011, 08:10 PM »
Why is the title of this thread:

CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw

I thought the Carvex was just just DELAYED? Not CANCELED. To me cancelled means, we will never see the Carvex here in the USA? [sad]

I guess that the title might be both accurate and also misleading.  If you read the statement from Festool USA posted within the first 2 or 3 posts in this thread I think that you could gain that:

1.  The models of the Carvex that Festool USA planned to offer in NA are not going to be brought forward - thus they are cancelled.
2.  Festool USA is going to continue to work on bringing a different Carvex here for sale in the future - thus the concept of offering it in June 2011 has been postponed.

Peter

Offline Wonderwino

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #131 on: April 29, 2011, 11:42 PM »
I was thinking the cordless Carvex would have been great to slice ham while camping in the mountains.  Maybe next summer. 
Water separates the people of the world; wine unites them.

Offline plaidma1

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #132 on: April 30, 2011, 05:54 AM »
First:  Peter, thank your wife for me as well.  I also tasted her delicious chocolate concoction during class last week.  I had no idea where they came from, but Minnie and Sedge seemed trustworthy enough, so I partook, and they were great.

Now, I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but its 5:45am and I haven't been able to sleep since 3:30, AND I'm kind of like a lawyer in that some of my favorite discussions are the ones that have already been beaten to death (you have to begrudgingly admit the intelligence of lawyers to get us to pay them at an hourly rate to argue stuff that has already been beaten), BUT:

I have to agree with Rick on the whole stroboscopic affect, language terminology notwithstanding.

I read the counter-poster's added link (remember, it was 4am and I can't sleep), and the quote that he pulled is from a section specifically dealing with fire alarms.  Its not likely that the fire alarm manufacturer is making fire alarms that pulse thousands of times per second, so the warning the site gives is just fine; i.e., keep it below 5Hz.  But then the site goes on to say:

  Generally, flashing lights most likely to trigger seizures are between the frequency of 5 to 30 flashes per second (Hertz).

Not being an expert in the field (or any other field, for that matter), I am going to presume that the farther away from the 5 to 30 range that you get, the more safe your strobe light is to those who suffer...  and two orders of magnitude (i.e. not 30, nor 300, but 3000, or something like it) away is pretty darn far away.

To conclude, I think you are all fine gentlemen (and some of you are probably fine ladies), and I hope you aren't upset that I re-re-hijacked this thread.

PS.  The Carvex is really cool, and I think it should be released, even if those four guys in North America who have really exacting standards are going to think its sub-par.

Offline Michael Kellough

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #133 on: April 30, 2011, 10:51 AM »
A friend suffered a grand mall seizure triggered by the electronic viewfinder in a camcorder.
He was in his mid-fifties and it was the first indication that he was susceptible.

I read somewhere that in the US rules have been proposed to restrict web sites
from presenting flashing media in the range of 2 to 55 hertz.

Offline mastercabman

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #134 on: April 30, 2011, 11:27 AM »
OK,so let say it is the strobe light.Why isn't it an issue in Europe? Or the rest of the world ?Why just North America? ???


I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Mavrik

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #135 on: April 30, 2011, 11:35 AM »
OK,so let say it is the strobe light.Why isn't it an issue in Europe? Or the rest of the world ?Why just North America? ???
NA is more eager and better prepared to litigate ...
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Offline Frank Pellow

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #136 on: April 30, 2011, 11:45 AM »
OK,so let say it is the strobe light.Why isn't it an issue in Europe? Or the rest of the world ?Why just North America? ???
NA is more eager and better prepared to litigate ...

Much too true!  [sad] [crying] [mad] [dead horse]  This tendancy is screwing up lots and lots of things in our society.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Greg Powers

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #137 on: April 30, 2011, 11:04 PM »
Would be nice to get some rough estimate on how long the Carvex delay will be.  As some of use were delaying the purchase of a jigsaw for one that was stolen.  It the delay is a few month I will wait. If the delay is going to be something like the CMS, going on for ever I will buy something else.

But the unknown time frame is hard to deal with. And I tired of using my Sawzall for Jig saw cuts. [tongue]
Greg Powers
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Offline Frank Pellow

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #138 on: April 30, 2011, 11:10 PM »
Would be nice to get some rough estimate on how long the Carvex delay will be.  As some of use were delaying the purchase of a jigsaw for one that was stolen.  It the delay is a few month I will wait. If the delay is going to be something like the CMS, going on for ever I will buy something else.

But the unknown time frame is hard to deal with. And I tired of using my Sawzall for Jig saw cuts. [tongue]

I would be happy to learn that this is, indeed, just a delay.  ???  My interpretation of the notice that Festool sent to their dealers, is that there is some  possibility that the Carvex may never be released in North America.   ???

Now that I have used this saw (at a class in Indiana), I know that I really want it.  But, it would be OK by me if I had to wait a year or so before I obtain one.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2011, 11:13 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Ken Nagrod

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #139 on: April 30, 2011, 11:11 PM »
Greg,

The new release date for the Carvex is scheduled for the day after you buy a jigsaw.  Christian has been planning this for a while, hoping you'll give up and buy that Harbor Freight closeout.  Otherwise, in the meantime, you might want to try one of those 2-man saws.  [tongue]

Offline Mavrik

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #140 on: May 01, 2011, 03:53 AM »
Now that I have used this saw (at a class in Indiana), I know that I really want it.
Have you suffered any seizures since then?
Perhaps you enjoyed it too much, and there is a finite limit to the the amount of happiness you're allowed to feel?
And what exactly do you people in NA do with your tools that the rest of us don't?
That is so obscure and obscene that they make it illegal for you to even buy them ...
TS55, MFT 1080, PS300, EHL 65, Domino, OF 1010, CTL 22, RO 125, BS75

Offline tallgrass

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #141 on: May 01, 2011, 06:55 AM »
Ok. this is to the members in the rest of the world....i want one......i know festool dealers cannot sell outside of their areas but people can do what they want......I live in the festool Bermuda triangle that is called the USA...so here it is, since i do not need the charger and the batteries are interchangeable, will someone sell me one? i will obviously pay for shipping ,you can even keep the charger.:). PM me....or maybe we could have a group buy through private party. just a thought. instead of further weegee board speculation i figured i would just salve the problem.

Offline Greg Powers

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #142 on: May 01, 2011, 10:11 AM »
Greg,

The new release date for the Carvex is scheduled for the day after you buy a jigsaw.  Christian has been planning this for a while, hoping you'll give up and buy that Harbor Freight closeout.  Otherwise, in the meantime, you might want to try one of those 2-man saws.  [tongue]

I was thinking that it would released 30 days after I buy somthing else. The day after would be great as I would still be in the 30 day return period [big grin]
Greg Powers
Size:XL

Offline Festool USA

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #143 on: May 01, 2011, 10:30 AM »
I would be happy to learn that this is, indeed, just a delay.  ???  My interpretation of the notice that Festool sent to their dealers, is that there is some  possibility that the Carvex may never be released in North America.   ???

From the statement about the delayed introduction of the Carvex:

Quote
We will continue to refine the new jigsaw’s design, with the full expectation that the Carvex will be introduced at a later date, executed in a manner that will be satisfying to even the most demanding customer. As this process unfolds, updates will be announced on our website and through our email newsletter.

Offline Kodi Crescent

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #144 on: May 01, 2011, 10:31 AM »
Now that I have used this saw (at a class in Indiana), I know that I really want it.
Have you suffered any seizures since then?
Perhaps you enjoyed it too much, and there is a finite limit to the the amount of happiness you're allowed to feel?
And what exactly do you people in NA do with your tools that the rest of us don't?
That is so obscure and obscene that they make it illegal for you to even buy them ...

I would love to have a Carvex.  I was waiting, too.  But as an Ergonomics Engineer, I am reminded that other people have certain capabilities and limitations that others do not.  As both a legal and ethical consideration, companies are compelled to produce equipment that accounts for these capabilities and limitations, and does not aggravate conditions that already exist.

There are too many of these conditions to be able to design and account for all of them, or the wide variation of symptoms/triggers.  And you can't feasibly design and account for combinations of conditions (e.g. deafness and blindness, blindness and motor control, etc.).  But a company needs to be responsible and accommodate those limitations it can feasibly accommodate.  It isn't that hard to do, and those who do not have limitations generally benefit from the engineering and solutions used to accommodate those limitations.  Some examples would be curb cuts and close captioning.  These are both accessibility-related accommodations that are put to good use by those without accessibility issues.

Another consideration is government or contractual business.  Some governments, such as the U.S., and some businesses write purchasing requirements that the equipment must meet certain accessibility standards.  If the equipment does not, then you don't get that business.  I've seen contracts lost due to this.  Just another consideration to think about that if this were the reason, may have had an effect on that decision.

Finally, as people without disabilities, we forget about the experiences of those who do.  This may sound touchy-feely, but there are many people who are left out of participating in certain activities in life because they weren't considered during the equipment design.  As much as we don't like it and like to lampoon it, its not ethical to exclude their participation in our activities because of different capabilities.  Imagine limiting an activity to an individual to do race or gender, and you'll understand how unethical it is.

I don't have an answer to why this is available in Europe and not in North America.  But as disappointed as we all are, we need to have faith that there was some good and compelling reason to either delay or postpone the release of this tool.  And please remember, its only a jigsaw, its not the second coming of your deity.  We need to keep it in perspective.


Offline Frank Pellow

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #145 on: May 01, 2011, 10:38 AM »
I would be happy to learn that this is, indeed, just a delay.  ???  My interpretation of the notice that Festool sent to their dealers, is that there is some possibility that the Carvex may never be released in North America.   ???

From the statement about the delayed introduction of the Carvex:

Quote
We will continue to refine the new jigsaw’s design, with the full expectation that the Carvex will be introduced at a later date, executed in a manner that will be satisfying to even the most demanding customer. As this process unfolds, updates will be announced on our website and through our email newsletter.

Thanks Shane, I concede that the phrase  full expectation is a positive indication that the Carvex will eventually be released here.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Greg Powers

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #146 on: May 01, 2011, 06:05 PM »
So with the Carvex delay, and who know how long it will be . I will most likely buy the corded Trion PS 300 EQ for now. And then when the Carvex is released again I will get the cordless model.  [wink]
Greg Powers
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Offline Alex

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #147 on: May 01, 2011, 07:07 PM »
I've been following this highly entertaining thread for some time now but I've tried to stay out of it because I can't in any way relate to the disappointment expressed here about the Carvex's cancellation/postponement. In that light the most sensible remarks in this thread were, in my humble opinion, made by Darcy (with screen name WarnerConstCo). After all, it's just a tool, nothing more, and there are many alternatives available.

It is not as if your new baby is stillborn.

It was also entertaining to read all the speculation about the reason why. Amongst a couple of 'out of this world' posibilities there certainly are some more plausible theories amongst them. The debate seems to center most on the on-board stroboscope. And that's where I'd like to add my 2 cents because unfortunately some people seem to be a bit off with their facts in this matter, Rick Christopherson being the most proliferant. And unfortunately some other people, looking upon Rick as an authority on Festool because of his manuals, follow up on his mistake.

Unlike others, I have no problem providing some links to back up my claims.
 
As for the further speculation of a stroboscopic effect inducing seizures, this too doesn't stand to logic. In order for a stroboscopic effect to result in a seizure, it must occur at a frequency within visual perception of the human mind.

This is a bit vague. What is the 'visual perception' of the human mind exactly? Because when it comes to frequencies, the mind has an enourmous capacity for visual perception. For instance, it can distinguish with great certainty between different colours in light, colours that are detected by the retina of the eye and processed in the mind. Light is a form of electromagnetic radiation in the frequency range of 405 THz to 790 THz. THz stands for Tera Hertz, and Tera means a 1 with 12 zero's. That's a huge number.

That's way above the 10 Hz Rick mentions, and the human mind can perceive it perfectly.

This means it must occur significantly BELOW 10 hertz

But let's stay a bit closer to home. After all, light's frequencies are a bit high and I don't think many people get seizures simply by opening their eyes. Let's look at the more sensible frequencies that computer screens use.

Everbody knows about computer screens. Everybody who bought them over the last decade knows that they have a refresh rate. And everybody knows that monitor refresh rates can influence you, causing fatigue, eye strain and headaches. These were most proliferant with older monitors that had a 60 Hz refresh rate. That's why over time the refresh rates have gone up from 60 to 75 to 100 and 120 or more. It is a well known fact that these refresh rates can have very prolific effects on people who are sensitive to them. Like epileptics.

If those refresh rates affect you, it means your mind can perceive them. That puts the human visual perception up to 60-120 Hz already, also above but already a lot closer to the 10 Hz mentioned by Rick.

However, the speed range of the tool is 500 sps to 3800 sps, which is far above the stroboscopic rate necessary to induce seizure.

And this is where Rick goes entirely wrong. First off, I don't know exactly what sps means. Tried to Google it but the only relation to frequencies I could find for this abreviation is Samples Per Second, and I don't think the Carvex has anything to do with music like my multitrack software does.

But we're talking Hertz here,and Hertz is measured per second, so I guess 3800 sps must mean 3800 Strokes Per Second or something like that. That would be some jigsaw, wouldn't it? That's an absolute beast! I'd buy that for a dollar! That would cut your 8x4 sheet in half in under 2 seconds. Think about the time and money saved!

Unfortunately the Carvex' rpm is 1500-3800 strokes per minute which is 60 times slower. In Hertz, this translates to 25-60 Hertz.

And yes, 25 to 60 Hz is well within the range of photosensitive epileptics. Don't believe my word for it, believe the University of Wisconsin or the Epilepsy Foundation or Epilepsy.com. Their consensus is that most photosensitive epileptics are susceptible for the ranges between 5 and 30 Hz, but some cases even up to 50 or 60 Hz. And that's precisely the range in which the Carvex' stroboscope pulses.

So if there's any theory plausible, it's this one. Or perhaps not. Perhaps there's some other mystery reason nobody thought of yet. Frankly, I care little. What is not plausible is that the Carvex is somehow not up to Festool's standards or has a technical defect 'specific to North America'. What a load of bollocks. If that were so, Festool wouldn't have released the Carvex in Europe and the rest of the world either. Yes, the Carvex had some teething problems, like a lot of new products have, but they've been adressed and the Carvex is a fully functioning product now.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 07:17 PM by Alex »

Offline Peter Halle

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #148 on: May 01, 2011, 08:08 PM »
I am going to step in here now.

For those of you outside of North America - Buy, enjoy, and use your Carvex.

For those in North America - It isn't coming yet.  Just as you have read about the customer service in NA that is different than elsewhere, relish the fact that they had additional testing done specific to how you might use it and then - in spite of what might be negative PR and press - decided to say "Not Yet"

We - including me - don't know why.  Please work to make it right with yourself that you may never know why.

Everyone here has seen, or had the opportunity to see the videos of this tool.  The technology wrapped into this is far beyond what is available elsewhere.  The North American market is different as well as the thinking of the Festool USA family.  A perfect example - this forum.  International users get their info here.

Based on my experiences with it - just like the RO90 in certain applications kicked it up a notch - so will the Carvex.  Trust the guys who sell tools for a living and could have sold a whole bunch but who said not yet.  Wouldn't you respect a contractor who said - "I am not happy with the way it turned out.  Nothing major, I just don't like a couple of things.  I want to make it right?"

I heard about this tool in 2009 and was excited.  I am still excited and can't wait to see the reactions of you guys once you get it in your hands - just be patient.

Peter

Offline mastercabman

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RE: CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version
« Reply #149 on: May 01, 2011, 08:26 PM »
Me,I've heard something different about why it was cancelled/delayed.
Apparently,the Carvex does not live up to what "North Americains" are expecting.
It seems that the Carvex does not cut as straight(in very thick material)as it should.I don't know what thickness we are talking about.
Maybe someone can verify this,but the Carvex uses a different type of blade guide? And that's what causing the problem.
This is what i was told.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!