Author Topic: Comment on Festools & Improvements you may want to see for them.  (Read 56290 times)

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Offline Dovetail65

  • Posts: 4617
    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 10:38 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

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Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
sorry to hear your problems..... i have not had your problems,,,,the only problems i have were small and only required a little fiddling, though i did have to get the larger hose to get the most out of my 75 saw....i would like to have know about that earlier.

Offline Per Swenson

  • Posts: 871
  • So far deep in rural nj, there are no Neighbors
    • Swenson&Swenson
Ok,

I am commin.

6 of 10 complaints are solved with a phone call.

Lets take the other 4,

The hose issue.  I can't help you there, but you have a boom arm, what's it doing on the floor?

Systainer/sortainer latch's,  apply wax or silicone spray. Problem solved.

You are not happy with the vacs.  Ok, you are not happy.

And the manuals.... yup, they suck. But that is why you are here, no?

Do I have complaints?..sure

Stoopid stuff though, I never had any precise results with the angle unit for the guide rail.

I wish they gave a extra strip with each and every guide rail.

And the design of the dust collection of the 1400 router should be rethought,

but they did it on the 2200 so expect a new model soon.

I will say this though, many of the issues I previously had were born of

my know it all attitude. That's right, who cares if the manuals are awful, I never read them anyway.

It took me sometime to learn how to think of it as a system. Or, to consider how well these

tools are thought out. I learn something new every day from tools Ive been running for some time.

Per

« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 05:41 PM by Per Swenson »
Party like its 1929. It's the American way.


There outta be a law banning sesquipedalianism on

internet forums.

www.swensonz.com

Offline Per Swenson

  • Posts: 871
  • So far deep in rural nj, there are no Neighbors
    • Swenson&Swenson
I guess things are complicated, Nickao.

See this here,8293-0

Per
Party like its 1929. It's the American way.


There outta be a law banning sesquipedalianism on

internet forums.

www.swensonz.com

Offline Eiji Fuller

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 1087
The TS75 saw cuts the bevel farther out from the strip than the 90 deg cut. So when cuttn the 45 after the 90 it leaves a flat. I fixed it myself with no help from fesfool. I tried calling the service dept with this issue and they could not help. I have to say they have been great with everything else but on this issue they ignored me. Total false advertising here.

Offline Jesse Cloud

  • Posts: 1722
  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
.......
Do I have complaints?..sure

Stoopid stuff though, ......

I wish they gave a extra strip with each and every guide rail.....

Per



OK, I think I have the answer to this.  No real cost to anybody.  Festool starts a "Trade in your extra plug-it cords" program.  I rummage through my junk systainer and send my half a dozen unused plug-its to Festool in return for some guide rail strips, vac bags, or something like that. ;) ;D
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 06:09 PM by Jesse Cloud »

Offline Per Swenson

  • Posts: 871
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    • Swenson&Swenson


Per go work for Festool.

Nickao

And this is unnecessary

Per
Party like its 1929. It's the American way.


There outta be a law banning sesquipedalianism on

internet forums.

www.swensonz.com

Offline Jesse Cloud

  • Posts: 1722
  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
Oh, also, next time Festool fine tunes the OF1400, how about a better solution to the problem of keeping the router level with the guide rail, that plastic outrigger thingy is lame.  Dave Dubbya solved the problem with an auxiliary base plate and some longer screws, how about making that a product.

Offline woodshopdemos

  • Inactive Member
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  • Posts: 759
    • Woodshop Demos - 1400 pages of how-to
And why the heck should I go through all that trouble? I am sure Festool does not want that. Its nothing but  marketing.

So you are telling me they should keep the status quo and I should shut up because they offer a 30 day money back. Well PC offers a 90 day and I have had no problems. I know next you will tell me to stay with PC then.

I am trying to make a good thread to help Festool understand problems. And this is exactly what I did not want this thread to turn into. People coming back at me telling me I can do this or that, but not for Festool to get it right.

Festool needs get it right.

Per go work for Festool.

Nickao

   I have no interest in ganging up on you. I generally don't have time to respond to whining threads and I do think this is one. Your statement above is erroneous. Festool will work to get it right but not by reading fallacious complaints on a forum. This isn't their forum; it is ours. We are lucky that the powers that be at Festool do read many of these threads. We do see that product improvement is very much a part of their charter. Phoning their tech support to get answers to your problem is a part of that system. No call; no report one way or another.
 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 06:16 PM by woodshopdemos »
In memory of John Lucas (1937 - 2010)

Offline Daviddubya

  • Posts: 704
  • Arizona, USA
First, I agree with what John Lucas said.  A negative thread like this will surely cause negative responses to the originator.  Are there some things that Festool can do better?  Of course.  But I'd call those ideas enhancements, not complaints.

Second, the only complaint I can recall was a systainer that was broken in shipping.  Festool sent me a new one with one phone call.  I have been buying and using Festool products for several years.  I put the router fix that Jesse Cloud mentioned in the enhancement category, not a complaint.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 06:32 PM by Daviddubya »
David W. Falkenstein
in Cave Creek, AZ, USA

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
i am sorry that you have difficulties......i agree that at the price point there should not be any problems.i will say no company is perfect, in my opinion it is important how they handle the problems.....in this case i have no complaints.......as for examples, i received bent rail which they replaced no question asked, other things were in the line of missing screws, and bits ,that kind of thing, no excuses but they did send me the parts pronto.O, i did have to have the switch on my drill replaced.they did a compete service and replacement of the switch, this was after 1.5 years of hard use.they  mailed the drill to my house in a couple of days,can't beat that. i am not saying it is ok but they always have fixed the problem,,,,i never got mumble mouth or go stuff it ,so i feel ok.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
o, yea the out rigger is weak but it does work.....being an engineer i would say it is a suboptimal solution, I also think the hole cutter for the jigsaw is also  weeeek, ok i should not have to have modified my angle attachment for the rail to stop it from moving.,,,,,ok a couple of gripes. :-\
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 08:54 PM by tallgrass »

Offline Steve Jones

  • Posts: 405
  • Austin, TX US
Nickao,

I think you have a reasonable idea, but have bumped into some knee jerk reactions to your thread - some folks who have spent a lot of money on a brand of tools is going to fight you if you claim there are some flaws (or maybe room for improvement). They will fight without thinking because they feel they have to defend that investment. in my case I use my tools to make my living, a surprising amount of my recently purchased tools turn out to be Festools because they really are better than the alternatives in most cases.

The fine line we probably could all follow is that these are truly great tools, and that nothing is perfect and never will be.

For one example of an ongoing problem that probably should get some attention: Has anybody on the list truly received a new Domino that was aligned correctly, specifically the transparent guide on the base? I got the impression from this forum from the number of comments over the last few months that probably everyone who brought one and actually tried to use it found it off. also the circular location pins never seem to have been aligned from the factory (mine certainly weren't).
Steve Jones

AdapTableTool, Inc.
adaptabletool@gmail.com

Offline Dan Rush

  • Posts: 569
  • Trim carpenter
Nick,

I think I know where you're coming from.  I too have some problems/complaints/etc. with Festool, as I do with any complany I buy product  from.  There is NO perfect tool or product.  Even the goods or services WE sell.  

If I may...  perhaps give the forum members (me included)  time to formulate some ideas and thoughts.  I personally started to think through my experience with FESTOOL after I first read your post.  I'm confident that the knee-jerk response you are expecting will be tempered after this holiday weekend passes and we all get back to thinking about our shops, tools, jobs, etc.

Just a thought.  Dan

To all, Please remember our Vets on Monday.


Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
i have read a great deal on this thread and to say that there is no negative content is not even close to right. just look at the complaints about saw alignment or the domino alignment. there is the section on wishes that is all about needed improvements. i think that thicker skins are needed in this discussion, it has been made clear that people have different ways of interfacing with their tools and different expectations. good points have been raised on all sides,,,,i think that the diversity of responses show that this is not a homogeneous group, this is good even when people disagree.

Offline Steve Jones

  • Posts: 405
  • Austin, TX US
Nickao,

In both cases (on mine anyway) it was purely an alignment problem, I just can't believe that either of those parts (the transparent plastic gauge and the locating pins) have enough mass to have shifted during shipping.

I've heard the story about Festool having a test block from every domino that leave QC and that they store some vast rack of little blocks of wood with holes in them and corresponding serial #s - sorry guys
1: it does not sound likely
2: why would they do that unless they receive a massive overload of complaints about domino alignment so heavy they feel they have to prove their efforts
3: wouldn't it be "faster, easier, and smarter" to have ONE jig that is actually accurate to set these machines up correctly?

Underused, I got mine aligned too, I didn't need to modify anything, but it took me an hour and fiddling around with a feeler gauge in order to get it perfect (I was using the domino to make 5 piece door frames and needed perfect alignment.)
Steve Jones

AdapTableTool, Inc.
adaptabletool@gmail.com

Offline Daviddubya

  • Posts: 704
  • Arizona, USA
Nick - I want to highlight a few of your own statements that led me to say this thread is negative.  I did not say it earlier, but this thread is also NOT constructive, IMHO.

"Everything else on this forum is about the good stuff."

That's simply not true.  There are lots of threads and posts about issues with Festool.

"Instead of making the manuals better Festool seems to link us to FOG members who have made good manuals. This is the best deal a company has ever gotten. Free manuals. How about investing in a technical writer that is a wood worker who uses the tools and making good, no great, manuals to begin with."

I have always assumed the manuals that people like Chris Christopherson and Jerry Work write are commissioned by Festool USA.  I think Festool USA is making an effort to get the manuals improved, not simply relying on people to volunteer to write improved manuals.

"...if this crap all happened in two months..."

You might have toned that down a bit.

"I should not have to make a call..."

This sounds like whining to me.  If you have an issue, give the company an opportunity to fix it.

"If the consensus is that I am off base please tell me..."

OK - you're off base.

ps - The Angle Unit is a weak design, but there has already been lots of discussion about that.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 01:48 AM by Daviddubya »
David W. Falkenstein
in Cave Creek, AZ, USA

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3535
The TS75 saw cuts the bevel farther out from the strip than the 90 deg cut. So when cuttn the 45 after the 90 it leaves a flat. I fixed it myself with no help from fesfool. I tried calling the service dept with this issue and they could not help. I have to say they have been great with everything else but on this issue they ignored me. Total false advertising here.

Eiji, if I remember correctly you and Mirko figured out that a shim needed to be added to your TS 75 saws between the saw mounts and the shoe (base plate). Do you remember the thickness of that shim?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 11:29 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Scott W.

  • Posts: 333
Hi Nick,

I tend to stay out of these type discussions, but here's my nickels worth.

I understand (I think) what you're going for. It would be helpful for a new member to be able to see a list of issues with each tool. It may also be helpful to Festool.

However,  If a new user stumbled onto a thread of issues or a search engine indexed it.
It is likely that it could also be a negative thing.

If a new user came here and saw a list of only the bad things are they likely to look further for the good things and purchase a Festool?

If only praise for the tools are found is it believable?  
Same goes for only negatives. But people tend to take the negative as truth faster than positives.  ???

Like the old saying goes;
"Do something right, if your lucky a customer well tell one or two others"  
"Do something wrong & they will tell everyone they know"

I'm not saying that all Festools are perfect, although I haven't had any issues. But unless this could be put in some sort of table like "XX tool Plus's" / "xx tool Minuses"  all in one place I'm not sure how helpful it will be.

Like you, I do wish there was some organized repository of the benefits and drawbacks of each tool, I'm just not sure how to go about it. It can be very time consuming searching forums for information, there is a lot of "discussion" mixed in with the facts :).

And if it does come to be, will it be believable to a stranger who comes across it?

If you can build some sort of database with the good and bad it would be a great asset in the reference section.

Sorry, I have no Idea how you would go about that.

Best,

Scott W.





PA, USA

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
i think as the dust settles this will become useful.at least good reading while i drink the cool aid
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
i think as the dust settles this will become useful.at least good reading while i drink the cool aid
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
oops lack of perfection sorry guys :'(

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3535

2) Three out of six mft 1080's came with damaged profiles.

3) One OF 1400 routers I received just would not turn on, I took it apart and fixed it myself, loose wiring

4) One LS 130 sander had the dust chute missing. Not that I ever use it, but what the heck.

5) Two MFT tops ordered seperately were  crushed on the corners and it was NOT from shipping, the boxes were perfect. Looks like whoever packed it knew about it and just packed them anyway.

Nickao

Nick, looks like you bought 3 too many MFTs, 1 too many OF 1400s, 1 too many LS 130s, and prematurely bought replacement MFT tops.

In addition, you have clearly violated the law of averages.

Obviously I'm kidding.

I've had a few problems with my purchases but it looks like I've bought about half as much stuff as you. About half of my issues were shipping problems and half quality control problems. But, these problems were spread over a broad time frame, you discovered yours all at once. Reading between the lines I gather that some of your problems were discovered after the 30 return window had closed. Did that prompt this thread?

All of my problems were quickly resolved to my complete satisfaction. How about yours?

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
  Nick and all other forum members, for the record, I've had Festool give me products to help promote here and on my site, that is no secret. Read through the form, I've pointed out things that I don't like about Festool products, it true I tend to focus on the good stuff about the tools. I'm one the members that helps more people out with questions about Festool products and problems than perhaps any other member. I think I've earned the respect of the bulk of the members here through my efforts to provide help and information. I don't feel that trust should be thrown out the window because I've worked with Festool to help promote their tools. The members have every right to question the work I do, but I am indeed a regular or normal Festool user and I'd like to be viewed as such, not as a Festool puppet. I ask the members here to keep in mind that Rick, Jerry, John and myself have worked hard to bring quality information to this forum and Festool owners around the world.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 737
Tallgrass is that Kool aid regular or funny in some way?


i was poking fun at myself as one who has almost all of their stuff therefore i am  kool aid drinker....it is a reference to people who buy the party line....i was not commenting on anyone else. just having a little fun at my own expense. sorry if this came across in some other way. ???

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7351
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
What don't you like about Festool, this thread was one of the most viewed and replied to threads, all Festool comments are indeed welcome here.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Scott W.

  • Posts: 333

If you think a better thread title is in order, great. But in a search anyone that reads this thread would think hey this guy Nick is a member and is non biased, let me look through the rest of the forum.

I have no problem with the title
.....
What you may be really saying is this thread may give people a negative feeling about Festools. SO WHAT!

Actually, what I was trying (unsuccessfully) to say is that only the good -or- only the bad in any one place doesn't tell the whole story. There needs to be a way to organize the information (good & bad) together. By tool if possible. I have no idea how to do this in this forum environment.



If they get into the reading of the threads they will see Festool are the greatest! And that this forum is really about the tools and NOT the  Festool company making money.

I agree. especially about the second sentence)


All I wanted was a  list of problems we are having with each tool and for people to list their experiences, that to much to ask? ....


I think it would be a great resource, but better if good and bad were together somehow.

Scott W.
PA, USA

Offline Bob Marino

  • Festool Dealer
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  • Posts: 3027
    • bobmarinosbesttools.com
 Nick and all other forum members, for the record, I've had Festool give me products to help promote here and on my site, that is no secret. Read through the form, I've pointed out things that I don't like about Festool products, it true I tend to focus on the good stuff about the tools. I'm one the members that helps more people out with questions about Festool products and problems than perhaps any other member. I think I've earned the respect of the bulk of the members here through my efforts to provide help and information. I don't feel that trust should be thrown out the window because I've worked with Festool to help promote their tools. The members have every right to question the work I do, but I am indeed a regular or normal Festool user and I'd like to be viewed as such, not as a Festool puppet. I ask the members here to keep in mind that Rick, Jerry, John and myself have worked hard to bring quality information to this forum and Festool owners around the world.
Brice,

Without getting into the initial thread regarding problems with Festool tools, I must tell you that I greatly appreciate the work done and information dissemimated by you, Rick C, Jerry W, John L and Per here and in the many PM's and emails you guys answer. None of you, as far as I see, looked to promote the tool to the point of not recognizing shortcomings and some have worked diligently to overcome many shortcomings themselves. I see the reviews as illustrating in the best way, how to use the tools/accessories and how to run with that, be more creative and find uses most of us have not thought of. The fact that the tool or accessory may be loaned or given, or the writer paid for his time by Festool, doesn't change my opinion, because I sense it has not changed the reviewer's opinion.

Bob

Bob
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be

Offline Scott W.

  • Posts: 333
 Nick and all other forum members, for the record, I've had Festool give me products to help promote here and on my site, that is no secret. Read through the form, I've pointed out things that I don't like about Festool products, it true I tend to focus on the good stuff about the tools. I'm one the members that helps more people out with questions about Festool products and problems than perhaps any other member. I think I've earned the respect of the bulk of the members here through my efforts to provide help and information. I don't feel that trust should be thrown out the window because I've worked with Festool to help promote their tools. The members have every right to question the work I do, but I am indeed a regular or normal Festool user and I'd like to be viewed as such, not as a Festool puppet. I ask the members here to keep in mind that Rick, Jerry, John and myself have worked hard to bring quality information to this forum and Festool owners around the world.

Brice,

I do not think your reviews are in the least way biased or "tainted'.
I appreciate very much your efforts as well as the efforts of the others who take the time to help and explain how to use the tools.

I hope they send you a whole truckload for your efforts. :)

Scott W.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 12:33 AM by Scott W. »
PA, USA

Offline Mirko

  • Posts: 394
I wish this forum was more about USING Festools and posting pictures of jobs that where built with them.

Something that comes along with using a tool, is experience with that tool, and how you make it work for you.

Finding the perfect tool is in some ways like finding a good friend... we would like that person to be just like ourself... but its not going to happen!

Bottom line for me is I reduced complaints with my Festools, because I learned how to use them! and I'm man enough to say that... they are different thats all.

Mirko