Author Topic: do you miss your table saw?  (Read 12444 times)

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
do you miss your table saw?
« on: November 10, 2016, 10:41 AM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55.  It will save me a lot of space and maybe even allow me to get two cars into the garage.  If you had a full size table saw and sold it, how was the transition?  Are there things you miss about it?  Did it even matter?  I currently have a MFT 1080 that I only use for assembly so having a second one I think could be really handy, especially if I get the router table accessory. I also have a Carvex that could allow me to get rid of my band saw as well.  I know a lot of you EU guys get by without big iron equipment so am I on the right track considering this change? 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

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Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1864
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2016, 10:57 AM »
IMO the kind of projects you work on would make a big difference in these decisions. Unless of course the top priority is getting the space for the car then you do what you must.
+1

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 11:01 AM »
I make cutting boards for friends, some outdoor furniture from time to time.  I was never thrilled about using just the MFT before I got my slider but there are so many great ways and accessories for the MFT3, it may make more sense now.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX drill, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2256
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 11:17 AM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. I am really thinking about selling it as it just takes up space next to wall. The only reason I have not sold it yet is I already own it and I figure -- what if I need it. So far it has not happened and I have make lots of furniture and other projects without even needing to turn it on. You might just try making several projects without it and see how you get along and it it fits your workflow. If the answer is that it works and you do not suffer quality and still enjoy making things without it, then you have your answer.

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 57
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 11:25 AM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55. 

If you work with sheet goods a lot, you won't miss it.  I use MFT + TS55 + sliding mitre saw almost exclusively for such work.  The only time I dust off the table saw is for ripping lengths of solid lumber.  A table saw is really the only way to go for this.  If you're making furniture legs, rails and stiles for cupboard doors, solid edging, resawing lumber etc, then you need your table saw. 

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 76
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 11:30 AM »
I had a fully tricked out Unisaw with Bies outfeed table and a 52" extension table.  I sold it when I downsized and moved to a new home with less space.  I am amazed by what can be done with a tracksaw and an MFT3 and have built over 2 dozen cabinets with cope and stick doors, and an entire entertainment/media wall project all with out the table saw.  I won't be replacing it any time soon as the track saw/ MFT table have been so versatile, however, the table saw is sorely missed for its ability to easily plow dadoes and narrow strip ripping was so much more convenient with the table saw. 

So yes, I do miss my table saw, but I can live without it.  If I had to do it again, given the space constraints I had to deal with, I would still do the same thing.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 11:32 AM by Dick Mahany »

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 57
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 11:32 AM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 12:31 PM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55. 

If you work with sheet goods a lot, you won't miss it.  I use MFT + TS55 + sliding mitre saw almost exclusively for such work.  The only time I dust off the table saw is for ripping lengths of solid lumber.  A table saw is really the only way to go for this.  If you're making furniture legs, rails and stiles for cupboard doors, solid edging, resawing lumber etc, then you need your table saw.

That's really the only thing I am concerned about... ripping relatively small pieces of solid lumber.  I can always keep the band saw, rip with it and then run it through the Planer to even them up.  I know there's a Festool way of accomplishing this but I can't remember what it is.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX drill, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Billedis

  • Posts: 568
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2016, 01:01 PM »
@HowardH I sold my 3hp Grizzly with 52" fence and a fine wood working outfeed table plan in April and purchased the portable Saw Stop for my table saw.  I make custom cabinets, and use the SS for face frames.  I don't miss the big table saw, and it gave me so much more room.  I work out of my attached three car garage and do a lot of 8' high cabinets for master bedroom closets.  Bill

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 416
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 01:17 PM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55.  It will save me a lot of space and maybe even allow me to get two cars into the garage.  If you had a full size table saw and sold it, how was the transition?  Are there things you miss about it?  Did it even matter?  I currently have a MFT 1080 that I only use for assembly so having a second one I think could be really handy, especially if I get the router table accessory. I also have a Carvex that could allow me to get rid of my band saw as well.  I know a lot of you EU guys get by without big iron equipment so am I on the right track considering this change?

Don't do it. The Hammer slider outperforms the TS55 and any rail saw by miles. They both have their place, but nothing compares to accuracy you get from a tablesaw with 10 seconds of setup time and it is 100% repeatable. Same on the bandsaw, the Carvex cannot even remotely be compared to dedicate bandsaw. Festool makes great tools, but don't fall into the trap of thinking they are better than dedicated stationary tools.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1652
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 01:37 PM »
@HowardH I wouldn't sell it unless you really need the extra space.  About 2 - 3 years ago, I needed to either upgrade my tablesaw or try it without a tablesaw. I decided to buy the TS55 and MFT and move toward selling my old tablesaw and not replacing it. I tried that for about 2 years while selling my old saw. It was only after I sold it that I realized how much I missed a table saw. It's not that you can't do everything with the TS55/MFT combo (and maybe a bandsaw and some hand tools), but it's so much easier to rip smaller boards with a tablesaw. So, when the Sawstop Jobsite saw came out, I bought it. I'm sure you'll hear varying opinions about the saw and the company, but I love it. For my use, it works perfectly and is safer and more accurate than my old saw (since that saw was about 20 years old). So, if you really don't have to sell your Hammer, I'd keep it. If my old tablesaw had been adequate, I'd still have it. As it is, I now use both the Sawstop saw and my TS55/MFT for appropriate tasks. I am happy.
Randy

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2256
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 02:00 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Offline RussellS

  • Posts: 166
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2016, 03:49 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Well......  With a table saw you can rip boards and then glue them into a panel without jointing or planing the freshly ripped edge.  Not so with a bandsaw.  Any bandsaw.  You always have to work the edge you just cut with the bandsaw.  It does not come off the bandsaw with a glue line flat smooth edge you can glue up or present as the finished surface.

Offline andyman

  • Posts: 626
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2016, 05:18 PM »
Keep it if you can they are a lot faster especially for repeat cuts

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 821
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2016, 05:50 PM »
I don't know, for me I'm going the other way.  3 years with a track saw and while it's great for some things, the table saw is faster for others.  The track saw is fiddly for repetitive cuts (sometimes they are a little off, other bits required to set the rail, clamps sometimes required, more bits required for narrow rips).  I'm really coming to hate the process of digging out the misc. bits for something that should be simple, especially when it's a one off piece.  The table saw makes all this quick and painless and I plow through 8/4 hardwood without effort.  The tracksaw has to work a bit harder and you should really switch to a rip blade. 

I can appreciate that some do fine without the table saw, and I thought I could too, but damnit, I'm putting a table saw in the shop!
-Raj

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2256
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2016, 07:00 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Well......  With a table saw you can rip boards and then glue them into a panel without jointing or planing the freshly ripped edge.  Not so with a bandsaw.  Any bandsaw.  You always have to work the edge you just cut with the bandsaw.  It does not come off the bandsaw with a glue line flat smooth edge you can glue up or present as the finished surface.

I can do this with the right resaw blade.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1652
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2016, 07:18 PM »
I would keep your bandsaw as that will allow you to make thin rips, resaw and do a host of things no other tool will do. I have a big cabinet saw and I have not even turned it on in 3 years. 

Not to hijack the tread, but I've been considering buying a decent sized bandsaw as my next tool purchase, but I have no prior experience with bandsaws beyond what I've seen in videos.  Realistically, can a bandsaw replace a table saw for ripping lumber i.e. is it as smooth, fast and straight at ripping as a table saw?  I've heard people complain about 'drift' with bandsaws, and the fence is a lot shorter than a TS fence.

Yes, a well tuned bandsaw with the right blade will yield surprisingly accurate cuts.

Well......  With a table saw you can rip boards and then glue them into a panel without jointing or planing the freshly ripped edge.  Not so with a bandsaw.  Any bandsaw.  You always have to work the edge you just cut with the bandsaw.  It does not come off the bandsaw with a glue line flat smooth edge you can glue up or present as the finished surface.

I can do this with the right resaw blade.

No question you can do it, but once you have a tablesaw, it's easy to do on the table and, for some, easier than the bandsaw. If you already have a tablesaw, a good high quality tablesaw, then selling it doesn't make quite as much sense as it would if you have an old, low quality saw unless there is a compelling reason. I attempted to use a bandsaw, hand tools, etc. for over a year to do rips (no resews, but rips). I bought a jig or two for the MFT so that I could do the rips with my TS55. I'm not saying it didn't work, but it was more trouble. There is no question you can do almost any woodworking task in a variety of ways. It's what you feel comfortable with doing easily and accurately that matters because, in the end, the result is always significant and when you feel at ease with a particular method, the result is usually better.
Randy

Offline Steve Rowe

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  • Teach them safety when they are young.
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2016, 11:11 PM »
It sounds like you have all the resources to make this determination for yourself.  Stop using your slider for several months and use your MFT and TS55 exclusively.  You will quickly determine what is right for you and the work you do.

Perhaps I am a little dense but, I just don't get where you are trying to go with your shop.  Less than a week ago you were thinking of upgrading to a Felder K700 asking if it was worth the upgrade.  Now you are thinking of dumping the slider altogether.  IMO, there is no way an MFT and TS55 will come anywhere close to the accuracy, speed and overall function a slider.
Steve

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1863
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2016, 11:25 PM »
If you need a place to "store" that slider, let me know. thx to OH is a hike that I could make for the right price!

I am lucky to be moving into a new house with more garage space and dedicated shop space.

I am ready to move up from my CMS (with 75 under it).  It has treated me well, but I want to go the opposite direction.

Let us know how you take this!

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2016, 02:21 AM »
Hi Howard

I did exactly this about 4 or 5 years ago. My relatively small table saw took up the complete space of the garage end of my workshop and it was mainly used for breaking down sheet goods. The TS, guide rails and Parf Dogs provide a far better (and for me more accurate) method of dealing with MDF and ply.

However, I still needed to do sawn rebate work as the saw's scribing line is usually so much better than a routed line. I bought a cheap and cheerful small table saw and only afterwards discovered that the riving knife could not be easily removed for rebating. I subsequently migrated to the CMS-TS which works brilliantly. It is small and easy to move out of the way yet produces excellent results both for rebating and those narrower rips which are often so difficult with a TS and rails.

So, to answer your question - yes I do miss a small aspect of the capability of my old table saw. It has been mainly replaced by the TS and rails but for narrow rips and rebating I still need a small table saw and the CMS-TS is the perfect choice.

Peter

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 1769
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2016, 05:06 AM »
Band saw, table saw, track saw, hand saw, jig saw..... all have their design points of excellence. A skilled craftsmen can push the limits of any of these tools to encroach upon the areas of excellence of the other tools but cannot equal their excellence.

If you can't afford a table saw or don't have room for one, you can stretch the abilities of a track saw to approximate what a table saw is meant to do.

But, if you already have a table saw that works, I just can't see giving up that tool to use an tool that's inferior for what a table saw does well.
Birdhunter

Offline turnpike

  • Posts: 15
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2016, 07:13 AM »
I mostly use a bandsaw and the TS55.  I think something like a Dewalt 745 tucked away somewhere or built into a workbench would see some use.    I thought I'd do most things on the TS55 but I actually have issues with accuracy and squareness. I find I'm going to the bandsaw more often unless it's a big bit of ply.

I don't know anything about the carvex but I'd be surprised if it replaces a bandsaw?

Offline Runhard

  • Posts: 727
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2016, 09:16 AM »
If you need a place to "store" that slider, let me know. thx to OH is a hike that I could make for the right price!

I am lucky to be moving into a new house with more garage space and dedicated shop space.

I am ready to move up from my CMS (with 75 under it).  It has treated me well, but I want to go the opposite direction.

Let us know how you take this!

Cheers. Bryan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in this same situation. I have a TS75 in a CMS and also have a TS55. I recently moved to a new house with a 3 car garage, so I am in the market for a slider or sawstop. I do have a Hammer bandsaw N4400 and jointer planner A3-41(w/silent cutter head) but I really want to add a TS.

My vote would be to keep the Hammer K3 or upgrade to a Felder.
Daniel

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2016, 10:32 AM »
Hi Howard

I did exactly this about 4 or 5 years ago. My relatively small table saw took up the complete space of the garage end of my workshop and it was mainly used for breaking down sheet goods. The TS, guide rails and Parf Dogs provide a far better (and for me more accurate) method of dealing with MDF and ply.

However, I still needed to do sawn rebate work as the saw's scribing line is usually so much better than a routed line. I bought a cheap and cheerful small table saw and only afterwards discovered that the riving knife could not be easily removed for rebating. I subsequently migrated to the CMS-TS which works brilliantly. It is small and easy to move out of the way yet produces excellent results both for rebating and those narrower rips which are often so difficult with a TS and rails.

So, to answer your question - yes I do miss a small aspect of the capability of my old table saw. It has been mainly replaced by the TS and rails but for narrow rips and rebating I still need a small table saw and the CMS-TS is the perfect choice.

Peter

Thanks for chiming in Peter.  I have a fairly substantial investment in Festool and was thinking that going with CMS system could replace a router table and possibly the conventional table saw.  Unfortunately, it's NAINA and who knows when it would become available.  A good portable unit like the SS or Bosch could act as a substitute until the Festool model arrives upon our shores.  I was in the process of starting to build a conventional router table but I became intrigued with the CMS system instead.  Now I'm trying to decide if it's better to get the GE model or since I'm getting a new MFT/3, a VL system.  I'm thinking the VL with the hope that the TS module will make it over here and the MFT/3 can act as a support wide table. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX drill, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 411
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2016, 11:46 AM »
Do you have a dolly under your table saw? Being able to tuck it tightly to a wall might help free up space, then pull it out when needed.

Another option over the CMS which can be ordered from Europe, as it is mostly just metal, is an Mafell Erika, since it is also compact.

Mostly my table is used for narrow rips and most of the time with a table saw sled. I can not imagine cutting something less than 2" without a sled/slider of some kind.

Otherwise adding onto your garage or building a new workshop is always an option :)

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2016, 11:59 AM »
The Mafell Erika may be just the coolest table saw around.  Holy cow are they expensive!
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX drill, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline Peter_C

  • Posts: 411
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2016, 01:11 PM »
The Mafell Erika may be just the coolest table saw around.  Holy cow are they expensive!
So you are going to own one then?  [big grin]

There will be a line of folks wanting to relieve you of that Hammer slider to offset the costs. I will start the bidding at $1,200 [cool]

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2016, 01:28 PM »
LOL!  triple that number would be a good
start! 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX drill, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline JimD

  • Posts: 321
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2016, 05:15 PM »
I do not miss my table saw because I never got rid of it.  I pulled the 60 inch capacity rails, however, since they were for sheet goods and difficult to use in my 14x24 shop.  I believe what a track saw does is to at least reduce the need for large rip capacity.  For those of us with space challenged shops, I think it can eliminate this need in the table saw.  I know what a slider is but have never used one.  But I understand they are often used to break down sheet goods.  In my shop, that's the role of the track saw.  But a smaller slider where the function is cross cutting smaller pieces would be very nice to have, I expect. 

With enough space and money I think all these tools have their place.  The track saw may be largely relegated to a tool to use when away from the shop.  But in my shop, space is at a premium and I think the best setup is to have both a small table saw and the tracksaw (plus RAS and CMS). 

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 3555
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2016, 07:44 PM »
I don't know, for me I'm going the other way.  3 years with a track saw and while it's great for some things, the table saw is faster for others.  The track saw is fiddly for repetitive cuts (sometimes they are a little off, other bits required to set the rail, clamps sometimes required, more bits required for narrow rips).  I'm really coming to hate the process of digging out the misc. bits for something that should be simple, especially when it's a one off piece.  The table saw makes all this quick and painless and I plow through 8/4 hardwood without effort.  The tracksaw has to work a bit harder and you should really switch to a rip blade. 

I can appreciate that some do fine without the table saw, and I thought I could too, but damnit, I'm putting a table saw in the shop!

This fellow read my mind and eloquently conveyed it.

Offline johnbro

  • Posts: 124
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2016, 12:08 AM »
Lots of good points here. I'm going to add that it depends on what you make. I like to make small boxes and do a lot of cuts on my cabinet saw using jigs like a miter sled. No way I could do that with Festools. I also like that I can set the fence with the ruler, rip a board, and it has a jointer-quality surface EXACTLY the dimension of the fence setting--no tweaking or checking gap from blade to fence needed. And if I rip 100 more boards without moving the fence they will all be precisely the same width. Now, most of the time it's a work top, but it's a ton faster to set up for precision cuts than any other tool (including my bandsaw) that I have.

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Offline sheperd80

  • Posts: 75
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2016, 12:23 AM »
It depends on your work and whether space is really that scarce. For me, theres absolutely nooooo way i would even consider ditching the tablesaw. Its much more than a ripping machine. Same opinion about the jigsaw/bandsaw. Festool hand tools are no substitute for shop machines, not even close.


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Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 708
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2016, 01:41 AM »
  Now I'm trying to decide if it's better to get the GE model or since I'm getting a new MFT/3, a VL system.  I'm thinking the VL with the hope that the TS module will make it over here and the MFT/3 can act as a support wide table.

The VL also enables you to replace the, in my opinion painful to use, standard festool router fence by fitting an Incra LS positioner fence to the MFT with dogs and use it on the VL, with both router and saw.

Offline Grakat

  • Posts: 196
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2016, 04:20 AM »
I too would keep the table saw. The guide rails take longer to set up for a parallel cut than a proper table saw. In a small place wind the blade all the way down and you get a work surface as well.
Regards
Graham

Festool ETS150/3, TS55, CT26, DF500+ Domino set, PS300, HKC55

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1051
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2016, 03:52 PM »
Lot's of votes both ways.  A good solution would be to get the SS contractor saw with a much smaller footprint and then the MFT/3- CMS-VL combo.  I would be concerned about the jobsite saw being able to cut through 8/4 hardwood. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX drill, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, Kreg router table

Offline johnbro

  • Posts: 124
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2017, 01:25 AM »
Lot's of votes both ways.  A good solution would be to get the SS contractor saw with a much smaller footprint and then the MFT/3- CMS-VL combo.  I would be concerned about the jobsite saw being able to cut through 8/4 hardwood.

I think the only reason the contractor saw is "smaller footprint" is because it doesn't come with an extension table; otherwise the table size is pretty close to the SawStop PCS. However, the contractor saw has virtually no dust control while the PCS--especially with the optional overhead guard--has amazing DC. You can get comparable cuts with either a PCS or a contractor's saw, but the difference in mess is quite striking. Of course, the contractor saw is sorta kinda portable while the cabinet saw isn't.

Offline Gabriel

  • Posts: 15
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2017, 08:44 PM »
Don't even think of selling it. You'll be wasting a lot of time. The Hammer always cuts perfect, guide rails don't (MFT3 never).

Offline Dougparke

  • Posts: 2
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2017, 02:52 AM »
I have been re-evaluating my work flow in my home shop and I'm now considering selling my Hammer slider and just going with a MFT3 and TS55. 

If you work with sheet goods a lot, you won't miss it.  I use MFT + TS55 + sliding mitre saw almost exclusively for such work.  The only time I dust off the table saw is for ripping lengths of solid lumber.  A table saw is really the only way to go for this.  If you're making furniture legs, rails and stiles for cupboard doors, solid edging, resawing lumber etc, then you need your table saw.

That's really the only thing I am concerned about... ripping relatively small pieces of solid lumber.  I can always keep the band saw, rip with it and then run it through the Planer to even them up.  I know there's a Festool way of accomplishing this but I can't remember what it is.
Hi there. I have been a subscriber for a while but learning rather than posting. I made 400 Masonite strips 25mm wide by stacking 4 sheets and using my TS 55 together with the  parallel guide extensions. Work brilliantly and down to almost cutting veneer thicknesses reliably and repeatedly.


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Offline jobsworth

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Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2017, 03:32 AM »
I had a shop full of stationary equipment. Then I got into festool. I ended up giving away to a old friend of mine all my stationary tools, as I never used them anymore. except my jointer.

My table saw was on casters and to use it I had to roll it out atech the DC, make a couple of small quick cuts and roll it back. It was easier for me to just use my TS 55 and MFT.

Now that Im in the UK, I bought the TS 75(American shipped over) and the CMS Module along with CMS VL stand. I leave the TS 75 in the GE module in the CMS and also bought the side extension.
 Now I have the GE (TS 75) and VL CMS (router table OF 2200).

Though in the past  Ive said Im good without a table saw, I now think for quick cuts a table saw is faster.

So with that being said, since I dont think you can buy just the CMS stand (GE or VL) in the states so you wont be having to swap out modules ) Id go get me a good bench top saw for making quick cuts.
That way you can keep it set it up and it wont use much shop space, heck of a lot cheaper then the TS 75 and module.


Coming Home Soon

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4036
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2017, 09:28 AM »
I currently have 6 table saws, two 10' 6" stroke sliders, two heavy old cast iron saws, a short stroke fortis, and two SLR's. 

I won't mention how many bandsaws or planers, or jointers I have.....

Offline jobsworth

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Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2017, 01:59 PM »
Hows that new shop of yours coming along?
Coming Home Soon

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4036
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2017, 05:06 PM »
Hows that new shop of yours coming along?

Pretty good. Been moving quite a bit of machinery, got a moulder, trying to secure some production part contracts, trying to eliminate all installations as well. 

2016 was a tough personal year, 2017 is looking to be great though.

Offline jackandhenry

  • Posts: 72
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Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2017, 05:34 PM »
As primarily a finish carpenter and someone who owns and uses a lot of festool products I would never rule out the table saw. for a quick thin rip or even scribes the time it takes to set up the track saw and especially for thin strips adds up a lot of time throughout the job phase. With all that money I save using a table saw along with my other festools I can use that extra money and put it towards a new tool or bonus money for other things in life. Festool is amazing and make great tools but some things you just can't skip. IT would be nice if they made a contractor portable table saw. Not the conversion kit you see in Europe but a dedicated table saw. I think if they made one for a reasonable price many people would use them. Especially if they nailed down the dust collection on that saw. Just my thoughts.
TS75 EQ, EHL 65 Planer, T15 +3 Set, Domino DF500, Domino sytainer set, CT 26, MFT 3 with accessories , MFK 700, OF 1400, RO 90, RO 125, RO 150, many different sized rails, Seneca parallel guides, Kapex 120, Oneida dust deputy

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2256
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2017, 09:59 PM »
NO - I still have it, but I have not turned it on in over 3 years - literally. I can survive without it. I keep it "just in case" and I am already invested in it, but I have thought long and hard about selling it and getting back from real estate. Now, I have a phenomenal bandsaw that is well tuned and a some other saws with rip guides that are very accurate so I have other means for thin rips.

If I had dedicated space and could leave one set up all the time, then I would most definitely have one in the arsenal.

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 45
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2017, 01:16 PM »
I have a cabinet saw with the 52" fence, I would LOVE to have the space back.  I am just getting started into my Festool journey but I already have seen that yes Festool can do it all, but in many cases it takes longer to set up the Festool then it does to cut the wood and on a table saw the setup is even faster.  I so badly want the space that cabinet saw takes up.

 I was going to buy a SawStop jobsite saw, I figured the way it folds up would give me everything I need, the store guy said I would not be happy downgrading to a 1.5HP SS after living with a 3HP Unisaw for 40 years.  Sure made me think when the sales guy who in theory would like to make the sale said that.   He was pushing the contractor saw and in my little mind, it was not enough of a space saver to do it.  I bought my Unisaw and Unifence new in 1978 so I had it quite a long time but i want that space back.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Online Dovetail65

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    • Rose Farm Floor Medallions and Inlays
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2017, 05:26 PM »
If you are just into your Festool journey you are not far enough along.

After a year, two if you are suborn, you will realize you want that table saw back. I now only use the track saw for rough cutting, framing or something I dont need precision(precision means repeat) meaning maybe one or two parts. If super accuracy is needed the track saw can get it done, but it can be a long set up time or it's to the table saw instead as well.

If I am going to cut 100 thin strips, it's the table saw.

If I want something ready to glue up with two matching jointed faces, I use the table saw.

If I need to cut 18" off a sheet of plywood for a roof, I use the track saw. If I need a piece for wall or floor sheathing there is nothing better than cutting off the ply stack with a track saw.

If I need to cut 4 or more 18" wide x 72" long parts off expensive zebra wood ply for a cabinet side, I use the table saw.

We can make a butter knife work for cuts if we take long enough to sharpen it and than make the cut, but if I am going to work at my same speed, same productivity, I need to use the tools that keep me on that pace. It just takes way to long to ensure certain cuts are perfect using the tracks saw. I was getting to where my brother would tilt his head say, "hey if you just used the table saw you would not only be done setting up, the cuts would be done".  Often I would find parts cut using the track saw were only just usable and not as perfect as I would like or as perfect as they would have been if I had used a table saw.

I know for a fact  more than one "famous" internet woodworker that tried the ONLY Track saw shop eventually went back to the table saw and now use the track saw in much the same way I do. The track saw is not the get rid of the table saw tool some believe it is. Even for a hobbyist that bench top table saw is going to come in handy and there are still some things that a big cabinet saw is simply the best tool for the job.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 05:54 PM by Dovetail65 »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1400
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2017, 09:07 PM »
There is almost allways a tool the is better at performing a specific task than any other.  That being said if money or time is not an over riding concern than one should consider that it is possible to build a house with a hatchet, but WHY would you.  I have a Powermatic 66 that I wanted for 30 years and have not used it in the last 9 months but there is not a chance in Hades that I will sell it. I use my tools for commercial/industrial tasks so have the luxury of having a space that I can keep for it, even unused at the moment.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 777
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2017, 09:18 PM »
I would not get rid of a table saw all together.  I would look at getting a smaller job site saw on a stand.  I would look at the Bosch or Sawstop, both saws are easy to move around.   Dust collection is decent and they are highly mobile. 

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 76
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2017, 09:21 PM »
if i was forced to only have one of the two. it would be a table saw all day long. the last thing in my shop id get rid of.

Offline Chance B

  • Posts: 25
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2017, 09:42 PM »
I had a SawStop PCS with a 52" fence in a small garage space. Loved the machine. But, it was huge!!! So, I sold it and bought a SawStop jobsite saw. It serves its purpose. Quickly ripping or making repetitive cuts for most projects, a table saw is sooooo much easier than a tracksaw with MFT. Don't get me wrong, I still love tracksaw/MFT combo. But if I could only have one, it would be a table saw, even a jobsite saw. And, the SawStop jobsite saw has incredible dust collection with a shopvac/dust deputy combo which is typically important for people who have jumped all in to the Festool world. (Full disclosure... I don't work for SawStop. I'm just happy with both versions of table saws I have owned.) [big grin]

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 45
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2017, 11:48 AM »
For me the question is not do I get rid of the table saw all together, its can I replace a big 10" Unisaw with 52" fence and go to the SawStop Jobsite saw and be happy.  Like I said in my earlier post my dealer thought I would miss the HP of the Unisaw but now that I have a track saw to break down sheet goods, I just don't feel I need that big Unisaw anymore.  The only things left would be dado's and other specialized things on the table saw but most (all?) can be done with other tools like my new OF 1400 and track guide.
 
 I don't think I could live without a table saw, its too handy for making face frames and many other repetitive cuts.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 416
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2017, 12:17 PM »
SawStop Jobsite saw leaves a lot to be desired in terms of quality and is but a shadow of your Unisaw. I'd consider the contractor's saw as a possible replacement or better yet keep what you have.

Offline tdwilli1

  • Posts: 28
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2017, 01:19 PM »
For me the question is not do I get rid of the table saw all together, its can I replace a big 10" Unisaw with 52" fence and go to the SawStop Jobsite saw and be happy.  Like I said in my earlier post my dealer thought I would miss the HP of the Unisaw but now that I have a track saw to break down sheet goods, I just don't feel I need that big Unisaw anymore.  The only things left would be dado's and other specialized things on the table saw but most (all?) can be done with other tools like my new OF 1400 and track guide.
 
 I don't think I could live without a table saw, its too handy for making face frames and many other repetitive cuts.

I first started doing dado's with a router or router table (even using my 1010 with guide rail) and it got the job done but not very easy or repeatable. After getting dado blades for my table saw I will never go back to using the router for that again!

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1652
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #53 on: January 11, 2017, 01:51 PM »
Several things -

You would definitely miss your table saw if you got rid of it (space the only reason to even consider it). There are many tasks that are just easier and quicker on the table saw; maybe even more accurate regardless of the table saw.

I have never been satisfied with the results of dados on a table saw regardless of blade. I have an Incra router table and everything I do is completely repeatable, always extremely accurate, and the results (especially the bottom of the dado or groove) are always better.

I have the Sawstop Job Site saw and have always felt it gets a bad rap, but I suppose that it depends on your expectations. No jobsite saw is going to replicate a cabinet saw in quality of cut, accuracy, range of use, and power. However, I have cut 8/4 maple without problems. The resulting rip cuts are extremely smooth (even with the original SS blade). The rip fence is very accurate. What I get in addition is the space I save by being able to move it out of the way when not in use and the safety. It's a good saw. I've owned it well over a year and don't regret buying it.

If I had owned a great cabinet saw to begin with I would never have gotten rid of it.
Randy

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4036
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #54 on: January 11, 2017, 07:43 PM »
My straight line rip saws take up a 7'×7' area.

I never use a TS for ripping anything anymore.

My Ekstrom has a 20hp arbor motor and will rip up to 4 1/2" thick and feed up to 250' per minute.

No need to do any edge work off that saw, glue panels right up.

Offline linnlp12

  • Posts: 61
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #55 on: January 11, 2017, 07:56 PM »
I have a sawstop job site saw and used it to rip 6/4 walnut into  strips using a Freud rip blade, no problem.  I would love a SS PCS or Industrial but like the others no space.   I use it for smaller plywood panels since as others have mentioned, it is easier to set up than the track saw.  I align it with a woodpecker saw gauge, an A-Line It and sometimes a mitutoyo depth micrometer.  Moving everything on the track saw is no issue but assuring it stays square adds  some time.  I do have a slop stop on it.  I recently added more MFT which I will set up for specific tasks.  Sick what I purchased before I retired which is why I have no space.......

Offline mikeyr

  • Posts: 45
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2017, 12:07 PM »
This is the kind of stuff I wanted to hear...I have been thinking the little jobsite would be perfect and get me lots of space back.  I could not live without a table saw, but with the Festool track saw I doubt I will breaking down sheet goods with the table saw anymore, I would only use the table saw for stiles/rails and other repetitive cuts.  But my wife brought a valid point last night, my router table is incorporated into my table saw, I placed it in the side table so I could use the same fence from the saw.  Made some sacrificial lumber that screws into the table saw fence and that becomes my router table fence, also routed some t-track and guide rails into the side table, if I got rid of my table saw for a Jobsite, I would have to get a new router table and now I am back to using up nearly the same space.

 Going to look at the SS 36" PCS, since that has a large enough side table to put my router into and I save some space from the 52" fence.

 Star Trek was right, space is the final frontier and I need more space.
ex-cabinet maker, now I just play with wood

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1652
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2017, 09:15 PM »
With a jobsite saw like SS or Bosch you can fold the saw up and completely move it out of the way into an unused corner. For me, since i don't use the saw all the time and it's fast and easy to fold up and move out of the way, I gain the central section of my shop for whatever I need it for.
Randy

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 419
do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2017, 10:15 PM »
Same same...didn't get rid of my TS as the two compliment each other.  Learned long ago that no tool is the end all be all and that each has it's specific purpose and place in the box.  That being said, on a budget, a craftsman can become creative and use a screwdriver to hammer in nails.  I'm lucky enough to have a hammer...


Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1782
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2017, 02:42 PM »
I currently have 6 table saws, two 10' 6" stroke sliders, two heavy old cast iron saws, a short stroke fortis, and two SLR's. 

I won't mention how many bandsaws or planers, or jointers I have.....

Got it, Darcy, but we all know about your afflictions. [poke]

That said, if I were trying to make a living at this stuff I could do worse than following your model. There is something to be said for having machines more or less permanently set up for all of the various tasks needed to do what you do. I think going back to continuously changing over your MFT to make various cuts would now drive you nuts. you need big iron for the volume of work you now do, no question. The corollary is that you need a lot more room. In for a penny, in for a pound.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 276
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2017, 02:36 PM »
For me the tablesaw is a good idea for small items and the tracksaw for large sheet goods.

Not keen on tablesaws for cutting sheet goods because of the sheer amount of infeed/tablesaw/outfeed space needed.

Ten foot for the board infeed (eight for the board and two for me)  two or so for the tablesaw and another ten foot for outfeed (eight for the board and two for a person maybe means its knocking on for twenty two foot of a room taken up just to cut a board into rips.

That much space in a house usually means the tablesaw has to be used outside which is the reason I don't often see them on UK house sites.

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Offline rostyvyg

  • Posts: 11
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2017, 03:09 PM »
Every tool has its use. While track saws are good for cutting sheet goods and straitening edges of long boards, a table saw is the one to go to if you need to rip thin stock or cut small parts using table saw sled. Basically, the best combination would be a sliding miter saw, a track saw and a compact table saw with good fence (and nothing beats Dewalt table saws in this regard). This way you can have a full fledged shop in your garage and still keep your car(s) in it, considering your workbench and other tables fold away...

Offline Scorpion

  • Posts: 419
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2017, 08:03 AM »
Every tool has its use....

I'd probably add "and every user has their preferred use for each tool."  Each user has different levels of comfort with each, experience with each, setup with each, and in some cases a need for each. 

Example:  I work in the home shop exclusively and never for a customer on location.  I also have a setup that allows the necessary in/out feed for the table saw (barely) so I like to cut all sheet goods to exact width on the table saw, to exact length on the miter saw (as often as possible), and use the trac saw when the other two become unsafe or difficult.

Different user using my shop may go a different way.  Would be interesting to observe actually.


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Offline cpw

  • Posts: 26
Re: do you miss your table saw?
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2017, 12:51 PM »
I use my track saw to break the sheets down, but then get everything exact with the table saw after I feel safe handling it.  For big enough things, especially crosscuts of long and wide pieces I'll get it exact with the track saw; because I don't want to risk it turning/binding while on the table saw, or setting up outfeed support can become a pain.